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deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,499
The way I understand enemy targeting is that they have an AI, so they try to do smart things like attacking weakened or surrounded characters. And then there is a layer of RNG on top of that. So something like Phoenix Dance moves the RNG slightly in that character's favor but it doesn't completely override the AI. That's why I don't really like Phoenix Dance. Using cover skills is a much better way to protect your fragile characters IMO.

The "weapon skills cost less" formations are really good in my opinion if you have one character that is your main damage dealer. Like axe for example has a lot of powerful high BP attacks so the axe formation is pretty good.

Overall I would say formations aren't *too* important though. I used Royal Hearts exclusively for like 70% of the game before I finally started experimenting with them.

Well Royal Hearts is still my default too, so that's good to hear, haha. I should start messing around with these weapons ones more soon; I'm just still not always great at picking someone who will actually take down the enemy group well, even with the loading screen tips...

Also, I liked some of the "kill/unison = more BP" ones early on but they feel like such a big risk too? Even in fights where there's a decent amount of little enemies you want to kill before the big one, it's a big ask to bet on getting them ASAP, cause if you can't you have too low BP to do much. Especially when you're stuck killing without a unison because keeping them around would be too dangerous...
 

Schopenhauer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
Awesome, thanks.
Also, random question. I figure from your avatar you have some experience playing Taria haha, did you ever figure out the baby quest? Is it only able to be completed when its intertwined with the scarlet shard there? I didn't realize there were many different shards so right now Im going around the world trying to avoid progressing to the next chapter since I've already acquired all but one shard I need.
I would say yes, the baby quest can only be completed during the search for scarlet shards. I have done the scarlet shards and baby quest with all three of the characters I have beaten the game with. From what I can tell the baby only appears during the scarlet shard quest or if because of the way the characters scenarios are laid out you have to do the scarlet shard quest eventually.

For some characters it was just sitting there from the beginning of the game, but you could only progress so far with the quest until you triggered the scarlet shard quest. For other characters, ones that don't have to do the scarlet shard quest at all I assume, it didn't appear until the scarlet shard quest was actually triggered.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,241
Still very slowly going through the game and loving it. I've started to understand the battle system a bit more and find it really fun. The only thing I'm not liking is how useless Urpina is compared with pretty much everyone else in her group. I try to keep her in to level skills, but she ends up just dying most of the time on hard fights, and even when she doesn't her skills don't bring much to the table.

I also like how, instead of the Final Fantasy thing where you're expected to get sidetracked from the world-ending narrative with a bunch of silly side quests, this game's characters actually comment on side quest diversions, "Are you sure you want to go in that cave? It seems like a waste of our time."
 

Augemitbutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,290
finished my first playthrough [Leonard].

This is easily the best RPG i've played in years. It cuts out all the bullshit fillter and keeps the necessary gameplay parts short and sweet, while offering the most satisfying battle system you can get. Going in totally blind and solving all possible mysteries on my own was perfect for Leonards story. This guy was as clueless as i was at first. There were many deaths on the way, it will take a few hours until you learn how to get comfortable with the battles, but it's worth it. The times i was down to the last man with only one hit away from despair make this game extra memorable, it demands your attention, and that's a good thing.

I don't miss walking through empty fields for hours or going through the rare good dungeon designed to be challenging when the game found other ways to be challenging. I wouldn't say no to a few hand crafted dungeons if they ever decide to do some follow-up, but i don't think it's necessary. Sure, games like Divinity are fun to play once you get into battles but there is so much tedium until you get there. I think this is good side genre that captures the essence of playing these kinds of games quite well.

time played 70-80 hours. It's good this game has 3 sequels build in.
 

yungronny

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
1,349
Do you have to be in the earth snake scenario to get the Kaikow glyph to activate? I can't do anything to progress the quest in Megdasse right now. In scarlet shards scenario
 

yungronny

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
1,349
It can also activate during the Sigfrei scenario in that area. That was the only time I was able to actually activate all of them in fact.
Ah for sure, thanks for all your help. I want Hagar's bow formation she gives so I will make sure to come back. Scarlet Shards is so weird, I keep accidentally triggering the end of the chapter and freaking out haha.
 

nano

Member
Oct 26, 2017
413
Berlin
I think I pass on the final boss. I apparently got the hardest version with Urpina by not destroying the Ibex ring, and can't even last two rounds in the first battle, even with two members blocking and on easy. BR is 31 or so. Maxed Smithy rank, everything I have is fully upgraded. Seems like a major investment to grind the necessary accessories for the whole party unless there is a way to cheese him.
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
I think I pass on the final boss. I apparently got the hardest version with Urpina by not destroying the Ibex ring, and can't even last two rounds in the first battle, even with two members blocking and on easy. BR is 31 or so. Maxed Smithy rank, everything I have is fully upgraded. Seems like a major investment to grind the necessary accessories for the whole party unless there is a way to cheese him.

Why not try Free For All Formation and use status effects to interrupt the boss instead?
Stun IIRC will always work, so things like Tumble and Sweep.
 

nano

Member
Oct 26, 2017
413
Berlin
Why not try Free For All Formation and use status effects to interrupt the boss instead?
Stun IIRC will always work, so things like Tumble and Sweep.

FFA is the only I tried due to the speed boost. Stun doesn't work reliably, in the one battle I managed to get more than one attack in, only 1 stun (with Heaven and Earth) out of 6 attempts procced. Mondo's Sweep never worked once.
 

NioA

Member
Dec 16, 2019
3,640
Honestly, I can't see any other method than spamming stun techs. Triumvirate saved my ass multiple times and I didn't even use Free For All.
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
FFA is the only I tried due to the speed boost. Stun doesn't work reliably, in the one battle I managed to get more than one attack in, only 1 stun (with Heaven and Earth) out of 6 attempts procced. Mondo's Sweep never worked once.

You need to gear appropriately for stun to land more often, i.e. focusing on gears with acuity.
Heaven and Earth is 20% base chance. Tumble and Sweep are 30% at rank 3.
Also, try to have more than 1 stunner. This game does sometimes make you rely on RNG to pass some difficult spot.
 

Taborcarn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
891
I used a lot of status effect with my axe user. Speed down, Attack Down, Def Down work nearly all of the time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
I'm replaying Urpina's story (this time on "Stronger" enemies difficulty), and I'm very impressed with how much variation there is. How many different outcomes does Act 1 have? I had to go to 3 fewer zones this time than I did on my first run.

How do you trigger (Urpina optional plot spoiler)
getting Adil to become your sidekick?
Does it really have to be Scarlet Shards during Act 3, or can you do it in either Act 2 or Act 3? Any other conditions to it?
 

Schopenhauer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
If I am remembering correctly he joined me during the chasing Sigfrei section of chapter 2. He joined after I triggered the bird glyph outside of his village.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
If I am remembering correctly he joined me during the chasing Sigfrei section of chapter 2. He joined after I triggered the bird glyph outside of his village.

I also recruited him around that same time, but he didn't
take over Mondo's role as the main companion. He was just a regular party member when I recruited him during the Sigfrei plot during Act 2.
 

Schopenhauer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
Oh wow, did not know that was possible.

I always thought there was more to him than just being a recruitable character as he can make appearances in other characters scenarios and gets mentioned more than most other characters in the game world.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Well, I missed my chance for that plot branch. It now seems that the criteria is not only doing the Scarlet Shard quest during Act 3 of Urpina's quest, but to also have done the "long" version of Act 1, which involves meeting Adil and getting some type of plot resolution to the war between his tribe and Eastern Empire. I did the "short" Act 1 because I didn't do it last time, but that changes the setup for Adil substantially, so instead of recruiting him you get a boss fight.

The interplay between different quest chains and decisions is fascinating, nonetheless. Guess I'll hold off until my 10th or 11th play to do that...
 

Tailzo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,945
Well, I missed my chance for that plot branch. It now seems that the criteria is not only doing the Scarlet Shard quest during Act 3 of Urpina's quest, but to also have done the "long" version of Act 1, which involves meeting Adil and getting some type of plot resolution to the war between his tribe and Eastern Empire. I did the "short" Act 1 because I didn't do it last time, but that changes the setup for Adil substantially, so instead of recruiting him you get a boss fight.

The interplay between different quest chains and decisions is fascinating, nonetheless. Guess I'll hold off until my 10th or 11th play to do that...
Sounds fascinating. I haven't been able to complete it even once, but I still really enjoy the battles. I should start a fresh new game.
 

Astral

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
28,115
I know this thread is sadly kinda dead now but I just got the game and have questions.

1. When you delay an enemy, is there a way to tell where in the timeline it's gonna be moved to? When I use Urpina's delay attack (I forgot the name), she seems to delay them one step over on the timeline. But when I use Nessa's Matador, they get delayed all the way to the end.

2. Am I free to upgrade weapons if I haven't yet learned all its skills? I noticed when I reforged it'll show me some of the new weapon's skills but missing some of the ones I already have. Are those just skills that the weapons have by default?

3. I read somewhere in the tutorial that some characters are better with certain weapons. Is this just stat based or does it say somewhere "this character likes this weapon?"

4. Can you defend against magic attacks? What about AoE physical attacks? If I protect someone, will they be protected by AoE damage too or do AoE attacks bypass protect?

I think that's all for now.
 

Yatahaze

Member
Jun 17, 2018
356
I know this thread is sadly kinda dead now but I just got the game and have questions.

1. When you delay an enemy, is there a way to tell where in the timeline it's gonna be moved to? When I use Urpina's delay attack (I forgot the name), she seems to delay them one step over on the timeline. But when I use Nessa's Matador, they get delayed all the way to the end.

2. Am I free to upgrade weapons if I haven't yet learned all its skills? I noticed when I reforged it'll show me some of the new weapon's skills but missing some of the ones I already have. Are those just skills that the weapons have by default?

3. I read somewhere in the tutorial that some characters are better with certain weapons. Is this just stat based or does it say somewhere "this character likes this weapon?"

4. Can you defend against magic attacks? What about AoE physical attacks? If I protect someone, will they be protected by AoE damage too or do AoE attacks bypass protect?

I think that's all for now.

I need to start a fresh run if this game. Going off memory so someone may come in and correct me. Sorry if I'm wrong about anything.

1. I definitely remember being able to see where the delay attacks send the enemies in the timeline. When you select an attack it but before you select a target I thought it would show where they were moving along the turn order.

2. There are different types of the same weapon those influence the skills you can learn with each. Some will say standard, blunt, thrust, special etc. When you are looking at what each weapon can upgrade into it will say what type of category of the weapon type it is. So if you haven't learned all the skills when you upgrade the weapon if it switches types you will have different skills available. The upgrading usually branches quite a bit so you will most likely be able to switch it back to a previous type eventually.

3. Under each character's stat screen you'll see a list of all the weapon categories and skill level numbers, I think their weapons they are most proficient in are in green.

4. Using cover skills with your tank characters does protect against aoe. Not sure on magic but I'm pretty sure that's true of those as well. Important part of the battle system is covering your squishy characters with your tanks during aoe attacks and manipulating turns and effectively utilizing stuns and other status ailments.

When learning skills other specific skills need to be used to "spark" those other skills. And the more skills of each weapon you learn the harder it becomes to learn subsequent skills.

There are lists of all the weapon types and skills and what skills to use to spark them out there.
 

Astral

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
28,115
Thanks guys. So if I reforged my weapon from, say, a Standard to something else, I might lose some of the skills exclusive to the standard type? I'm loving this game a lot more than I thought I would. I was immediately hooked by like the second fight.
 

Yatahaze

Member
Jun 17, 2018
356
Thanks guys. So if I reforged my weapon from, say, a Standard to something else, I might lose some of the skills exclusive to the standard type? I'm loving this game a lot more than I thought I would. I was immediately hooked by like the second fight.

You won't lose skills you've already learned, just won't be able to spark the skills that are unique to that specific weapon subtype. But instead will be able to learn the skills available to the new subtype.
 

Schopenhauer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
You generally have a few weapons within a category that share skills, so don't worry about not learning all of a lower level weapon's skills before you upgrade. It is also pretty easy to replace weapons once the trade shops open, so again I wouldn't worry about it too much.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,532
One major tip I'd give is that poison is the easiest status ailment to land, and exceptionally powerful. It's incredibly potent against high HP foes, and can win you entire fights.

Paralysis also becomes easier to land on foes who are either already debuffed with something, or who are casting. Keep that in mind, because the damage mitigation it can provide is crucial, but it's otherwise pretty inaccurate.

In general, read the tip menu. It lays out a lot of stuff, and combined with the google doc linked above, should answer most mechanical questions you'll have.
 

ActStriker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,545
I started playing again a few days ago after a layoff and I think things are finally clicking for me. Still in Chapter 1 of Urpina's story.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,241
I hope you're doing okay, and I hope the game is helping you destress!

I don't know, I don't really think this game is high on the Chill factor due to its lack of towns and lack of non-combat sidestories. You're pretty much going from battle to battle and those (at least to me) can be fairly stressful and a bit frustrating at times.

I got sidetracked when Death Stranding came out but need to get back to this.
 

ActStriker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,545
Yeah if I wanted to de-stress I'd definitely play something else lol

Was able to play a little bit tonight and got dual-wielding for Urpina.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,438
Played the game on release for about 25 hours across Leonard and Urpina's scenarios but didn't get very far despite having a blast with it.

Started a new save yesterday with Balmaint and this game : still pretty good and I kinda want to keep with it this time and actually finish a playthrough.

Is there any point to switching weapons on a character on a "first run" or is it more something to experiment with on NG+?

Glimmering an early counter skill is just the bomb, glimmers in general are such a cool concept really.
 

Zaber

Alt account
Banned
Sep 11, 2019
906
Played the game on release for about 25 hours across Leonard and Urpina's scenarios but didn't get very far despite having a blast with it.

Started a new save yesterday with Balmaint and this game : still pretty good and I kinda want to keep with it this time and actually finish a playthrough.

Is there any point to switching weapons on a character on a "first run" or is it more something to experiment with on NG+?

Glimmering an early counter skill is just the bomb, glimmers in general are such a cool concept really.
On my first run, I just focused on one weapon for each character. I think that you can learn new roles from getting better with deveral types of weapons, but one doesn't have to obsess about it, to be honest.
 

Schopenhauer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
Yeah, if you use multiple weapon types on a single character your damage is going to start lagging and it will be hard to make up during the mid to endgame without a bunch of grinding. Roles are nice bonuses, but I wouldn't bother trying to build characters around them during your first play-through.
 

Tailzo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,945
Yeah, if you use multiple weapon types on a single character your damage is going to start lagging and it will be hard to make up during the mid to endgame without a bunch of grinding. Roles are nice bonuses, but I wouldn't bother trying to build characters around them during your first play-through.
But grinding is bad in a way, right?
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,438
But grinding is bad in a way, right?
My (partial) understanding is that it's mainly meaningless since the ennemies get stronger as you do. But I imagine that it can work in some way if you do just a few combats to spark some skills that add some utility to your kit. Like say, gives you access to a status effect you didn't have before hand or that counters a particular type of damage.

From what little I played (just got to the part in Balmaint's scenario where the game tells me to fuck around for a bit) it's not needed. Just did extra fight here and there to get mats I was missing to upgrade a piece of equipement.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,532
But grinding is bad in a way, right?

Not really, no. While increased battle rank (BR) from grinding increases enemies' scaling, there are rubber band mechanisms in place to increase your party's power as it fights higher level enemies, and you'll be progressing your tech levels and glimmering new stuff too.

If you're overly concerned about enemy scaling, you can grind at repeatable nodes -- ideally Hard difficulty ones, for the extra rewards. Subsequent battles at repeatable nodes increase your BR by a small fraction of what new encounters do.
 

Schopenhauer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
867
But grinding is bad in a way, right?
The number of encounters increasing difficulty element gets blown out of proportion with every SaGa game that uses it. Is it possible to grind so much in this game that you can't progress through the game? Maybe? Is it likely to happen unless you are purposely trying to make it happen. Definitely not.

Personally I see grinding as a negative because I find it boring, but as others have mentioned, I don't think it is a bad thing in this game unless done excessively.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,438
Trucking along in Balmaint's story, I'm at the second intermission and I went (or stumbled upon, tbh) with the Phoenix Quest. It led me back to Kei where I examined the Arch, got a Phoenix Curio and now I don't know where to go to make the quest progress. Any pointers?

BTW, dual wielders are the bomb. Recruited one along the way and boy does he pack a punch.
 

Yatahaze

Member
Jun 17, 2018
356
As far as elemental weapons go, does anyone know what determines what you get? I saved a couple files before triggering the volcano eruption. The save right before the fight led me to being stuck getting the greatsword. If I went back to before the eruption I was able to get the spear. I reloaded a few times trying the different fights to trigger the eruption and 2 out of the 3 resulted in spear and the remaining one would be greatsword. I saw that it might have to do with the highest weapon level on your team? I ended up trying a few more times but kept getting the greatsword but also got the rare spear to drop with it, so I stopped reloading after that because I ended up with the elemental greatsword and a powerful rare spear. I know there are more elemental weapons and I'm trying for a longsword for urpina but don't want to get stuck locked into an unfavorable weapon for the next one.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,532
As far as elemental weapons go, does anyone know what determines what you get? I saved a couple files before triggering the volcano eruption. The save right before the fight led me to being stuck getting the greatsword. If I went back to before the eruption I was able to get the spear. I reloaded a few times trying the different fights to trigger the eruption and 2 out of the 3 resulted in spear and the remaining one would be greatsword. I saw that it might have to do with the highest weapon level on your team? I ended up trying a few more times but kept getting the greatsword but also got the rare spear to drop with it, so I stopped reloading after that because I ended up with the elemental greatsword and a powerful rare spear. I know there are more elemental weapons and I'm trying for a longsword for urpina but don't want to get stuck locked into an unfavorable weapon for the next one.

IIRC it's random, weighted toward the highest skill level in your active retinue?
 

Deleted member 11976

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,585
Apologies if it's been asked before but does anyone in here have a video or text guide they'd recommend for new players? I got Leonard as my first pick and I'm really overwhelmed. The Tips section doesn't really do a great job, in my opinion.

Aside from the lack of proper ingame tutorials (which I understand might not work well since they don't know where you'll start) I'm really digging the battle system. I just done understand it fully yet! 😅
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,438
Leonard is kind of the worse character to start with. To be concise there are 4 "main quests" in the game, Urpina/Balmaint/Taria are automatically assigned one of them by default and during their campaign you'll have to complete 2 others before getting to the last boss.

Leonard is super open ended and you have full choice of the storylines you engage with.

Urpina is often mentioned as the best starting character considering how her scenario onboards the player, I think Balmaint ain't too bad either but his scenario might be a bit harder at the start.

The tips sections of the menu is loaded with explanations about the game's system, well worth it to read some of it imho.