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Scott Pilgrim Takes Off creator criticizes streaming dumps: "Imagine if the whole season of X-Men 97 was out "
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Fallout already came and went. Didn't see a single meme about it. Saw more discussion about the trailers than the entire show. The only benefit is I have seen zero spoilers because no one is talking about it. I had to watch the Last of Us live every single week because there was so many twitter memes, jokes, discussions and speculation that I didn't want it ruined by even waiting to watch the new episode a day later.
That's what I am doing and wiki says there are two episodes left before I can finally binge it. I tried watching it for a few weeks and fuck that noise. Getting really into a show and then having to wait a week for the next episode like we are in the dark ages. Just terrible, but alas we all have our burdens to bear.
I am glad Fallout did a drop all at once. People have been arguing that the binge model is unsustainable for what 7 years now at least, so if they are right I shall keep enjoying it where I can.
You should check out Super Sentai, the Japanese source material for Power Rangers. We're at over 45 years of weekly episodes with minimal breaks for Holidays and such, lol.
People who prefer to watch in concentrated bursts can't join the conversation in the way they want with weekly releases because they will be months late to the party by the time a show is finished. Weekly releases are worse for those viewers' experience than a dump is for people who prefer weekly because they still have full control over how soon they can join in a discussion and spoilers are usually respected for a decent time afterwards so you can participate as far as you've watched even if you watch at a slower place.
As to general discussion, I dunno. A lot of the biggest shows in recent years have been released in drops and they seemed to do just fine.
As to general discussion, I dunno. A lot of the biggest shows in recent years have been released in drops and they seemed to do just fine.
I took a sacred vow to not fuck with long running shows still in production. Okay, it was mostly long running anime at the time, but the entertainment gods won't hold it against me extending it to all forms of media where applicable.
I just can't get onboard with the resistance to staggered releases. A lot of the greatest TV shows of all time were so great to experience as they happened because they ran for quite a while and were things you could have discussions and speculation about. Like, movies are right there for media you watch all in one go, what makes TV all that special if you're going to treat it like a glorified movie with the dump release? Even miniseries would split themselves up into at least two episodes over multiple nights.
In the end, all good shows will be watched in retrospect with all the episodes available, it'll still be just as good and the same experience for new viewers years after the fact, but I think it really robs something for that first stage of the show's life. Being lucky enough to have been there, watching along as a show first came out, that can be quite a special thing, and it feels like a shame that the dump-all-at-once model slightly cheapens and greatly shortens that already very limited period of time that can never really be replicated again.
In the end, all good shows will be watched in retrospect with all the episodes available, it'll still be just as good and the same experience for new viewers years after the fact, but I think it really robs something for that first stage of the show's life. Being lucky enough to have been there, watching along as a show first came out, that can be quite a special thing, and it feels like a shame that the dump-all-at-once model slightly cheapens and greatly shortens that already very limited period of time that can never really be replicated again.
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The OT for the Fallout show is at nearly 2k posts and it's still very active, and there are some people claiming there's no discussion about it? What?
Binge > weekly for me. No way in hell I'd ever prefer weekly.
Binge > weekly for me. No way in hell I'd ever prefer weekly.
the zeitgeist of an ongoing release is a genuinely interesting phenomena to witness as an outsider to a specific release, as well as actively be a part of while it's ongoing. for my tastes, i never binge anything if i decide to watch, read, or listen depending on the medium and give everything its proper time to mellow and let my thoughts on the material develop with time. weekly show releases tend to have a much better and longer-lasting mindshare and have a community built up over time as there's something to discuss over a longer period. single-drop shows become a flash in the pan, consumed within days of release with a few weeks of buzz at most before dissolving away into nothing and are promptly forgotten as people move on to the next thing
binge drops have been the worst thing for viewing habits, the longer-term health of shows, and fed deeper into a consumption machine which feels so cynical and disconnected from the art of a work that depresses me. but in general, i feel a lot of things all streaming services (netflix, spotify, etc) have sold as improvements have only caused irreparable harm to series that may have stood much taller had they been given months to foster hype, drama, discussion, and controversy rather than all discussion happening within a concentrated early timeframe with slower watchers having to dance around the people who watched everything all at once and cannae help but start immediately talking about the finale in the first day
binge drops have been the worst thing for viewing habits, the longer-term health of shows, and fed deeper into a consumption machine which feels so cynical and disconnected from the art of a work that depresses me. but in general, i feel a lot of things all streaming services (netflix, spotify, etc) have sold as improvements have only caused irreparable harm to series that may have stood much taller had they been given months to foster hype, drama, discussion, and controversy rather than all discussion happening within a concentrated early timeframe with slower watchers having to dance around the people who watched everything all at once and cannae help but start immediately talking about the finale in the first day
I'm super mixed on this. It REALLY depends on the show for me. Fallout is something where I wouldn't of minded a weekly release schedule. When I was watching Halo I fucking hated it. Guess it depends on if I love the show or not lmao.
Bigger discussion for me more than that is this short episode orders man. Less than 10 episodes for a season is honestly criminal. Need to go back at least 13-14 at minimum.
Bigger discussion for me more than that is this short episode orders man. Less than 10 episodes for a season is honestly criminal. Need to go back at least 13-14 at minimum.
Many of those same people in this thread alone that prefer binging say they don't give a shit about discussion, so 🤷
As for discussing things, like others mentioned, it pales to how discussion usually goes for a weekly show, which allows each episode to breathe and get its own space to properly discussed and digested. With the binge model, I mean yea sure some of the bigger moments may stick with you to chat about and what not, bit otherwise the model has everyone all over the place in terms of where they are in the season. If you truly care about "joining the conversation", weekly is better for that, whereas doing it for the binge model is a lot more half-assed in comparison.
A dump is far worse for those that prefer weekly because once it happens, you give up any pretense of an organic discussion. I can't chat seriously with someone about how exciting Episode 3 is knowing they're on like Episode 7. At that point it just makes me not even want to bother until I've finished the show. But then at that point, I won't have nearly as much to say compared to taking each episode one at a time.
I'll say it again and again: neither model fully satisfies everyone, but the binge model is the only one that takes away an option. At least with the weekly model, people still have the choice to wait for the show to finish before watching it.
Dungeon meshi is the first netflix show in weekly format that I'm watching. I think it works for that show since it's a long 24 episode show. I've seen Scott pilgrim as well and I don't think a weekly release would work for an 8 episode show.
I've been avoiding xmen to binge it all when it's done. I hate waiting, but I think I do appreciate episodes a little more when it's spread out.
I also don't like when they cut seasons in half and you see the rest months later. For invincible I almost forgot what was going on with the show when it came back.
I also don't like when they cut seasons in half and you see the rest months later. For invincible I almost forgot what was going on with the show when it came back.
Binge people can not participate in discussion at all if they wait to watch in their preferred style for weekly shows. Weekly people can still watch episodes weekly no matter what and they can participate in discussions with people who will be happy to respect spoilers for where they're at. If the show is good, people will be there wanting to talk about it still.
And you don't lose anything because you don't want to discuss with someone who's watched more than you. You just want to limit them according to your own preferences.
Not to mention, that's a ludicrous line to draw anyway considering anime, remakes, and book adaptation discussions are always going to be chock full of people who have read the source material anyway. In fact, they are often the main ones pushing discussion until something hits real main stream.
If you purposefully refrain conversation because someone who wants to talk about it has seen more then you, you just kneecap the discussion you claim to want and make it worse for everyone. Self fulfilling prophecy.
that's a way different situation than just watching week to week. nobody likes a months long break mid season.
Yes they can, bing it within a few days of the last episode airing then join the discussion.
At sucks, but at least it's not the season cut into 2 parts that they try to spin as "2 different seasons", which Netflix love to do since a real renewal would force them to give raises to the animators.
Except for the graveyard of shows that never got renewed precisely because of the binge model.
Not every show is a Stranger Things level hit.
JoJo Part 6 is a notable example
Literally the least talked about season since the show took off, because it dropped in batches instead of weekly like Part 5.
I absolutely think that Archive 81 would've been renewed under a weekly release model. It was built entirely around a mystery that ripe for weekly discussions.
Incorrect, you can dive in right before the finale hits if it matters that much to someone.
It's not literally about watching it weekly, it's about everyone organically being on the same page regarding a show and discussing each episode as it comes out. You talk about what binge watchers can't do but continue to gloss over that fans of the weekly model cannot organically replicate the experience of watching a show as it comes out. Me for example enjoying the Shogun show week to week with others is NOT the same as me forcing myself to watch the Fallout show week to week, and then sifting through old threads/Reddit or whatever to see what people said previously. Please stop saying it is. It's just talking in circles over and over again in these threads every single time.
Honestly, the best way to view Super Sentai is that it's a franchise with multiple shows. Outside of the occasional crossover movie (or the rare anniversary season), each series stands on its own. And we've got more than a dozen series with legal English releases:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpChpK7-fvU
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak384HDEimI
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_UQdO047iM
You know... I hadn't really thought of that. All the same, jumping into the end of the conversation is not the same as jumping in at the beginning and self-moderating your participation from there.
I'm not talking about reading old threads or reddit posts. You can walk into an OT whenever, say "I just watched up to here and here's what I'm thinking" and people will respond. Some of those people will be about as far as you, ripe for organic convo.
Having a lot of other older discussions to sift through if you want to is a bonus. It may be more fun for you if everyone is limited to watching on your preferred schedule regardless of how fast they want to watch, but I don't see how that makes it better for those people.
All the same, either way is going to inconvenience one side and it isn't going to kill the other side. I still prefer the way that allows people to consume the media and join the conversation at whatever pace they choose.
I have to wonder if the people saying that there's no Fallout discussion realize the OT is on the Gaming side and not Etcetera? It's at almost 2k posts and always on the front page lol
This makes no real sense, because they can just binge so that they'll be done when the final episode comes out which puts them on the exact same ground as they'd be if it released in bulk. If you wanted to discuss episode by episode, binging is a horrible format, and if you want to discuss once the whole thing is done, this is trivially easy while binging, especially since it's not like when a show will end is a secret for weekly shows.
I would have a majorly negative opinion of Scott Pilgrim Takes Off if it was a weekly release. The show isn't structured around a weekly format. Episodes bleed into other episodes, most episodes had not much happen, whole characters disappear for multiple episodes.
People keep saying that, but some of the absolute biggest hits on streaming services all dropped at once.
It's fine to have preferences, and some shows are more conducive to one style over the other, but I'm not convinced it's an absolute thing especially as far as impact is concerned.
I also personally think X-Men 97 would've done just fine released all at once. But it ultimately matters not.
Ummm, yes please!
Weekly or all-at-ounce, it's been a loong time since I've bothered to watch TV on a schedule. I'm just as likely to miss the "cultural zeitgeist" for shows dropped weekly as not. Lots of people do. I *still* have friends who want to talk about Breaking Bad and yet the wife and I have never seen it. So much for the cultural zeitgeist...
Releasing weekly isn't any more likely to assure I get on board with a show. Unless it's something I'm really interested in watching, I'm just as happy to wait until the season is complete and stream at my convenience.
make it one episode a day, discussion can still happen easily and you don't have to wait as much
but yeah i vastly prefere binging, 90% of the time i wait for a show to be over before starting it, and i watch 1 or 2 episode while eating a day
but yeah i vastly prefere binging, 90% of the time i wait for a show to be over before starting it, and i watch 1 or 2 episode while eating a day
People aren't saying there's no discussion, people are saying discussion is very front loaded and usually dies within two weeks after release.
Fallout is still in its first week since it released, let's wait another week or two and see how the OT is doing then.
Doing fine and doing what it's doing now are two different things. I brought up Episode 5 of X-Men '97 earlier because it really shows what can happen with weekly releases. Just take the OT discussion for example. Prior to its release there had been around 1,800 posts for the four previous episodes. For Episode 5 it's jumped up to over 3,100 posts. That episode alone has created more than 1,200 posts of discussion. It's also created countless articles about it across various websites to grab people's attention that may have not been taking notice of the show yet. And this is an episode in the middle of the season, not the season finale where it's expected that something huge would happen. And its praise that happens week after week to draw in those people rather than an initial surge on release and then very little in the weeks after like you have with dumps.
There were people literally saying they've seen 0 discussion about Fallout in this thread. I'm addressing those.
I had to know so I checked the Scott Pilgrim Takes Off OT. From the day the series launched, serious discussion about the show dies in 19 days, totaling 841 posts with the stragglers.
Compare that to the Shogun OT which is still going strong after 48 days with 1,434 posts. Or the X-Men '97 OT which is 27 days old, but with 3,130 posts.
Even with 1,879 posts already, no one is going to be talking about Fallout in two weeks.
Compare that to the Shogun OT which is still going strong after 48 days with 1,434 posts. Or the X-Men '97 OT which is 27 days old, but with 3,130 posts.
Even with 1,879 posts already, no one is going to be talking about Fallout in two weeks.
Yeah it's so obvious. Weird that anyone disputes it tbh. You can see it in everyday life too. Like, everyone I know is talking about Shogun right now. I'm not watching it but at this point, it seems like I will do so very soon just to be part of the excitement and conversation. Haven't felt such inevitability with a tv show since GoT
At the end of the day; all TV shows will spend the majority of their existence being bingeable. If a shows quality is too reliant on its release schedule then that show is doomed to get worse as time goes on, eventually there will come a point where the amount of people who were around to watch Seinfeld weekly will disappear. Therefore I think it's in Seinfeld's best interest to be a show where the quality is not too dependent on that very specific schedule that it can only achieve during one very specific point in time.
Same with me. When I first heard of Shogun I thought it looked dope and decided I would get to it someday. But hearing folks talk about it recently has changed my plans from "someday" to "ASAP." Now I'm trying to finish up before the finale.
Honestly, it doesn't sound like you know very much about Seinfeld or the factors that led to its legendary success. It's one of the worst examples you could have chosen to make your point
Seinfeld still holds up to this day. I'm talking purely about its quality. But you can choose any show that is still good or even better upon its completion.
But quality isn't the only important thing. It took Seinfeld four years to become a ratings juggernaut, four years of buzz: weekly episodes and water cooler talk. Can you name a one-and-dump streaming show that survived four years of middling/bad ratings before becoming a major conversation? No offense but I think it's naive to suggest a show's legacy is all that ultimately matters.
yeah I think overall binging is kind of hit and miss while at least weekly foster a better sense of community among viewers on forums or other social media platforms.
I personally hated how Netflix handled the Stone Ocean release schedule and I am really enjoying waiting every thursday for a new Delicious in Dungeon episode.
I do like how sometimes you get 2-3 episodes at once and then it goes back to weekly for some shows. That way you get a better handle on how the show might evolve but you still get the benefit of then a scheduled release each week.
I personally hated how Netflix handled the Stone Ocean release schedule and I am really enjoying waiting every thursday for a new Delicious in Dungeon episode.
I do like how sometimes you get 2-3 episodes at once and then it goes back to weekly for some shows. That way you get a better handle on how the show might evolve but you still get the benefit of then a scheduled release each week.
I wish X-Men 97 was a full season dump, the wait after EP 5 has been agonizing and I'm pretty sure EP 6 isn't going to mention it at all.