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Scott Pilgrim Takes Off creator criticizes streaming dumps: "Imagine if the whole season of X-Men 97 was out "
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
I mean I get it, but not everyone will be watching the episodes as they're released. There will a huge amount of people who will want to binge it and want to talk about it as a whole. I'm sure there are more people like me that just forget what the storyline is if you're waiting a week at a time.
While I do like being able to binge a whole show at once, It does feel pretty unceremonious to just dump whole seasons of shows at once.
It feels cheap when the streaming services just do that. I like a build up.
It feels cheap when the streaming services just do that. I like a build up.
I doubt it impacts most people. For weekly shows, time slots matter more which is why the premier after the Super Bowl is coveted or certain days like Friday or Sunday are desired. I cannot remember which day it is, but being sent there means you are being sent to die.
Either way, the popular stuff we know would still be popular regardless of release dates. Game of Thrones was not gonna be cancelled if it was binged.
Discussions about a show is basically for a part of the fandom. It is also a byproduct of mostly the Internet. There are notable shows that were cancelled even if they had a loud fandom because the money and viewers aren't there. They tried salvaging or selling to another studio but the same thing occurs. I suspect the online discussion doesn't move the needle all that much in terms of viewership growth for the grand majority of shows.
Breaking Bad would have never gotten a second season if it dropped all at once on the current Netflix model.
The show was not very popular until way later in its run. Breaking Bad is kind of the worst example you could use.
If it only got popular with later seasons, what kept it going in the earlier ones?
Couldn't be weekly hype cause you said it got popular later and networks aren't less likely to cancel you due to the grace of weekly format.
Breaking Bad was paid for by Sony. It had crap viewerships early on. It made it's money, but I doubt it would be cancelled since it was prestige TV on a fairly low budget. It was about $3 million an episode for a total of $21 million which is about an episode of Stranger Things or GoT.
It would have survived because of the promise and accolades involved. As a risk, it was very minimal and would be especially for Netflix. The first season won 2 out of 4 Emmy's it was nominated for. Sarandos would be salivating at that.
I feel like Breaking Bad is an excellent example of the opposite phenomenon, as it is one of the most bingeable shows ever made and the WOM gave it so much momentum online around season 3 ending, then again after season 4.
Aaron Paul specifically noted that Netflix gave it a huge boost
Aaron Paul specifically noted that Netflix gave it a huge boost
Yes, it was because of weekly hype. It was a critically acclaimed show that got steady growth because of word of mouth on a fledgling network.
I jumped in before season 2 premiered because I kept hearing great things about it.
So why would critical acclaim and word of mouth vanish if it was bingeable?
We got shows like Squid Games and Edgerunners that show that that hasn't stopped being a thing
I'm fine with dropping the complete season at the same time.
I can understand dropping one episode weekly for series that had this performance historically, like Jojo, because that's how the community enjoyed watching the show before. It's fine with some exceptions like this one. I don't know if Scott Pilgrim would fit better on a weekly schedule to be honest.
I can understand dropping one episode weekly for series that had this performance historically, like Jojo, because that's how the community enjoyed watching the show before. It's fine with some exceptions like this one. I don't know if Scott Pilgrim would fit better on a weekly schedule to be honest.
Critical acclaim would not vanish but word of mouth doesn't last long for anything.
One of the largest bridges in the world collapsed last month and nobody is even talking about it anymore.
Dropping a full season is obviously the best option as someone paying for these services. Being forced to maintain a subscription over multiple payment periods to finish a show does not benefit the customer. Especially not when there are so many shows worth watching on other streaming services. Any other considerations would be secondary to this.
I think weekly watchers are not only greatly overstating the impact of online discussion, but are conflating their desire for discussion as a metric showrunners use to determine renewal or cancellation.
See: Futurama, Firefly, Angel, Arrested Development, or a myriad of other weekly episodic shows which had thriving online discussions but got canceled anyway.
See: Futurama, Firefly, Angel, Arrested Development, or a myriad of other weekly episodic shows which had thriving online discussions but got canceled anyway.
I understand why people like binge drops, it's just plain old content consumption. You consume a ton of content in a short amount of time then move on to the next content drop. Same kind of deal when people watch videos at 1.25x/1.5x/2x speed. More content consumed, more content to consume after.
It's pretty integral to shows made for streaming platforms. Cram as much content as you can in as little time as possible, pretty much.
It's pretty integral to shows made for streaming platforms. Cram as much content as you can in as little time as possible, pretty much.
With most weekly shows I find myself letting a few episodes build up and forgetting things that happened by the time I watch again. Even for something I'm watching weekly now, American Horror Story, watching 35-45 a minutes a week doesn't really get me invested in the show very much despite loving many previous seasons.
How many shows a year really benefit from "the discussion"? There definitely are some but I'd say for the majority I'd like to actually get an entire plot instead of bits and pieces I might not even remember after a few weeks.
How many shows a year really benefit from "the discussion"? There definitely are some but I'd say for the majority I'd like to actually get an entire plot instead of bits and pieces I might not even remember after a few weeks.
You guys keep saying this while ignoring those of us who say we like to watch multiple episodes in spurts, not all at once in one day.
Also, this is bordering on "No True Scotsman" territory where apparently only weekly watchers are capable of appreciating media.
No, I'm not looking to 'consume content' like a zombie blob person. I just want the option to watch something at my own pace
It's why I've gotten way back into physical media, cause I don't like the choices streaming platforms make wrt quality, availability, even things like recommended bubbles cutting into the final few minutes of films (which can be a 'get fucked' situation if it's a film like Psycho and the credits are in the opening, and it cuts into the ending)
I'm just not convinced that many stories benefit from a 45 minute to 1 hour drop every week. Sometimes it works but I often feel like there's not enough being said in the drip feed, and some of these shows (like Fallout) tend towards mystery box style storytelling which I just find way too fatiguing it it's week by week. I definitely feel like Twin Peaks season 3 actually benefits from some partial binging. The early release of it where I think it was like 4 episodes came out pretty close together was great cause some stories benefit from a more condensed accumulation of detail than others, where the detail gets forgotten over time
So I like having the choice, whether it's watch a ton or a little. Otherwise what happens is I just ignore it entirely and forget it even exists
I like weekly as it gives me reason to try something new to fit in my daily calendar between: work, school, and social events. Shows end up getting assigned a day to watch when an episode releases and I can keep up with friends, memes, and forums. Invincible is great because of how each episode plays out. Looking forward to Andor S2 and the community around it.
Very much doubt I would be watching Palm Royale on Apple TV+ if it wasn't weekly. I build some interest in the characters that wouldn't be there if all the episodes were out. Just bail after the first episode. I haven't the energy to binge and even when a whole show drops at once I only can watch 2-3 episodes at a time because that is just too much content and especially when an episode is an emotional load, weekly gives me special to digest with other viewers. I see this a lot on Apple TV with The New Look, For All Mankind, and Masters of Air.
Very much doubt I would be watching Palm Royale on Apple TV+ if it wasn't weekly. I build some interest in the characters that wouldn't be there if all the episodes were out. Just bail after the first episode. I haven't the energy to binge and even when a whole show drops at once I only can watch 2-3 episodes at a time because that is just too much content and especially when an episode is an emotional load, weekly gives me special to digest with other viewers. I see this a lot on Apple TV with The New Look, For All Mankind, and Masters of Air.
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As someone who doesn't even watch TV, I don't see how there is any format better than weekly.
a) Week-to-week viewers get their intrigue and discourse surrounding it.
b) Binge watchers can watch when the episodes are done airing... or jump in at anytime during its airing.
c) The companies behind the show get the benefit of longer term discourse fueled by the weekly viewers.
I don't see how we've gotten to this point where we just dump every new show on streaming day of. I'm not a TV guy though, so perhaps my opinion isn't the most informed.
a) Week-to-week viewers get their intrigue and discourse surrounding it.
b) Binge watchers can watch when the episodes are done airing... or jump in at anytime during its airing.
c) The companies behind the show get the benefit of longer term discourse fueled by the weekly viewers.
I don't see how we've gotten to this point where we just dump every new show on streaming day of. I'm not a TV guy though, so perhaps my opinion isn't the most informed.
Wouldn't you technically have this option anyway, just once the season is concluded rather than at the start of it.
Most streamed TV shows are watched immediately. Not over a 1 month span though.
The number of times I've seen people go "well, it's been out for a day or two, let's discuss the ending of this 10-hour thing openly" is ridiculous. For that reason alone, I much much prefer the cadenced release strategy because I can make time to watch an hour a week but 10 hours in two days is kinda difficult and then I have to spend a week dodging spoilers and dedicating all my free time to watching one thing. It sucks so bad and every narrative show that doesn't do it is a blessing.
If it's just a monster-of-the-week or reality show or game show, I don't care. Dump it. But it's stupid to expect people to binge watch 10 hours of content in a couple of days because otherwise the climax will be just openly ruined everywhere. It also helps that a regular cadenced release allows people to discuss theories, speculate, etc. - makes it much more of an enjoyable experience engaging with a show than when every discussion about something is about the ending, which inevitably happens with the dump release.
If you're going to dump stuff, at least do it like Stranger Things did and leave the finale til a bit later once everyone has had a chance to catch up, and allow that speculation and hype.
If it's just a monster-of-the-week or reality show or game show, I don't care. Dump it. But it's stupid to expect people to binge watch 10 hours of content in a couple of days because otherwise the climax will be just openly ruined everywhere. It also helps that a regular cadenced release allows people to discuss theories, speculate, etc. - makes it much more of an enjoyable experience engaging with a show than when every discussion about something is about the ending, which inevitably happens with the dump release.
If you're going to dump stuff, at least do it like Stranger Things did and leave the finale til a bit later once everyone has had a chance to catch up, and allow that speculation and hype.
This still happens with weekly shows though too. Like thread titles "OMG. This episode" or suddenly memes spoiling this part of the episode.
Even just the mention, I already know that somehow XMen Episode 5 will have some big reveal, twist or whatever.
Netflix is by far the most successful streaming service (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/b...lix-disney-warners-paramount-nbcu-1235868631/) and they're incredibly data led (they employ some of the best data scientists in the world) so if they're still leading with full season drops then it is for good reason.
My guess is the numbers of people who prefer the convenience of watching on their own schedule outnumbers those who want to talk about a show week to week and the latter group is overrepresented on this forum.
Netflix funds then cancels a lot of shows that don't make immediate impact, too.
It's 100% this. Same as the perpetual "Netflix is doomed" and "Netflix has nothing to watch" threads that have persisted here for years. Or a show like The Night Agent being one of the most popular series of last year but still gets a fair bit of "WTF is The Night Agent? Never heard of it."
It's not specifically ERA bubble though- it's "terminally online" bubble whether it's ERA, Reddit, Discord, Twitter, etc.
Spoiler culture is a whole separate topic. I understand wanting to go in completely blind, but that's easier said than done on the internet.
But again, all I'll say is rather avoid spoilers for one episode rather than the entire season. It takes 30 minutes to catch up on Episode 5, compared to spending hours binging a show to avoid the same scenario.
It's not our schedule lmao
If we take the most unbiased view. Take a look at what the most popular shows are every year. Most are the binge model. Would they have been more or less popular if it was weekly? No idea.
Yeah for me. I'll wait until like the penultimate episode of Mandalorian or something to drop then I'll watch one episode a day and watch the finale live. I'm too old to drip feed 10 shows simultaneously.
I think these things should be released in the way in which they were designed to be.
I'm the case of SPTO, that's a roughly 20-minute 12-ep anime series, and those are traditionally made to be released and watched weekly. We even have the creator here saying it was intended as such.
I'm the case of SPTO, that's a roughly 20-minute 12-ep anime series, and those are traditionally made to be released and watched weekly. We even have the creator here saying it was intended as such.
Here I was thinking younger generations have more time (at least before marriage and kids if that happens) and can binge stuff when it comes out as opposed to us older folks. Like I don't think I could ever stay up and watch 10 hours of TV anymore, at least not until my kids are grown.
I do find it funny that some are bemoaning the long wait between split seasons... if the seasons didn't drop all at once, the wait between split seasons would probably be less!
And for those who are like "why make me wait, drop it all at once" well for the longer seasons that drop all at once, maybe they could've been released weekly, earlier, if they didn't have to wait for all episodes to be done before they're dropped. So it's not like you're actually getting things earlier with dumps, it's on a case by case basis. And to go back to the discussion point, there is no way something like Game of Thrones or even House of the Dragon would've been as big as they were/are if whole seasons were dumped at once. There's just no use discussing things in the middle of the season when people have seen all the way to the end.
As far as Scott Pilgrim goes, at least the end of the first episode would've been talked about for longer if you couldn't just watch the rest of the episodes right away.
Dumps are better. People say "weekly is better for discussion" but like, 95% of TV discussion is "Have you seen X?" "Yeah" "It was pretty good". And that is it. Most people don't go online to discuss weekly episodes and most TV is not that deep to elicit such deep discussion that you need a week to digest. All my friends are into media and our discussions on weekly TV is probably just a few sentences.
I 100% prefer a show releasing week to week but I also know almost everyone I know that I talk to shows about will only watch a show once all the episodes are out and other people talk about it. Every single person I've talked to Shogun about (raving about it) has said they haven't watched and will watch when its all out, they have "read" its good but no one has actually watched. Meanwhile a few people have watched 3 Body Problem (mixed receptions) but only because they could watch the whole thing in a week.
I think sadly most people prefer the drop it all model, and I assume Netflix has a lot of stats to back it up. Most people don't go online to talk about shows. They may get some recommendations from people they trust, but there are SO many shows to watch that most can really only cherry pick a few a year.
I think the pushback is a lot from podcasters, writers, forum mega fans, etc who are heavily invested in long discussions and theorycrafting and stuff but most people aren't into that at all. Wildly enough I know a few people who happily listen to podcasts about movies (mostly) they have no intention of ever seeing, just to get their favorite influencers takes on it.
I think sadly most people prefer the drop it all model, and I assume Netflix has a lot of stats to back it up. Most people don't go online to talk about shows. They may get some recommendations from people they trust, but there are SO many shows to watch that most can really only cherry pick a few a year.
I think the pushback is a lot from podcasters, writers, forum mega fans, etc who are heavily invested in long discussions and theorycrafting and stuff but most people aren't into that at all. Wildly enough I know a few people who happily listen to podcasts about movies (mostly) they have no intention of ever seeing, just to get their favorite influencers takes on it.
I feel like people are conflating Netflix's success a bit too much with them doing binge releases. I'm not saying that it hasn't helped them, but I feel that's not even in the top 3 reasons why the average joe prefers to use Netflix compared to every other streaming service.
Having the conversation going, having it as an event yes, water cooler talks etc.
Name of my band.
I like what Amazon has done with a lot of shows with releasing 2-3 episodes up front and then the remaining episodes weekly. Lets you really invest in a show right off the bat which isn't always possible with just a single premier episode but then also have that week to week build up and anticipation for the rest of the season.
Dumping a whole season just makes it lot harder for word of mouth I think. If it's a massive hit like Stranger Things yeah it blows up, but for a lot of other shows it comes and goes way too fast. Some people watch the whole thing right away and if you don't you kind of miss the boat on the discussion and zeitgeist. But weekly releases gives people a lot more time to catch up and take part. There's probably a good number of Netflix shows that got canned that might not have because they're just flashes in the pan and had there been week to week releases it could have helped stir up a lot more social media and word of mouth the entice more people to tune in.
Dumping a whole season just makes it lot harder for word of mouth I think. If it's a massive hit like Stranger Things yeah it blows up, but for a lot of other shows it comes and goes way too fast. Some people watch the whole thing right away and if you don't you kind of miss the boat on the discussion and zeitgeist. But weekly releases gives people a lot more time to catch up and take part. There's probably a good number of Netflix shows that got canned that might not have because they're just flashes in the pan and had there been week to week releases it could have helped stir up a lot more social media and word of mouth the entice more people to tune in.
My only real opinion on this is that dumping a whole bingeble season at once is very nice because you can just sign up for one month or a free trial or whatever when the show you want drops, and then peace out.
Of course, you can do this with the weekly shows once they hit the end of their season, but you fall behind a bit, if you care about that sorta thing
Of course, you can do this with the weekly shows once they hit the end of their season, but you fall behind a bit, if you care about that sorta thing
Discussion of a thing is not at all a part of my enjoyment of the thing.
Let me binge people, I want to be immersed, not drip-fed. You can still discuss a show that you binged, and if the argument is spoilers, that happens just as much on a weekly schedule - or worse, because some people expect everyone else to have watched and drop some massive bombs.
Let me binge people, I want to be immersed, not drip-fed. You can still discuss a show that you binged, and if the argument is spoilers, that happens just as much on a weekly schedule - or worse, because some people expect everyone else to have watched and drop some massive bombs.
Doesn't that even happen anymore ? A show slowly getting bigger with each episode dropping within a season. Can't really think of anything at the moment.
Isn't that what's happening with X-men '97 right now, hence the comparison?
OP
OP
But that's how Netflix treats their content. They put out so much content and most of it is unceremoniously dumped with no build up.
Film directors have complained about this as well. Netflix buys their movies at a film festival, unceremoniously dumps them onto the service, they get one or two days of discussion, and then everyone moves on.
If the platform is treating movies and shows as disposable as a YouTube video, then don't be surprised if the audience does the same.
I think it's fair to say the most popular streaming services way of doing business is the reason for their success. Now you may be right and it's barely relevant but that is a tougher argument to defend.
A show that good from a classic IP was going to huge no matter how it was released.
Actually, speaking of shows that follow the binge model, I just remembered Echo and how little discussion it had after it got dropped all at once on D+. Like I didn't even know it was out until I randomly checked 2 days ago.
I sincerely miss weekly episodes and agree with O'Malley when it comes to X-Men '97. The show would have been warmly recieved no matter what, but the weekly drops give it an "appointment viewing" feel. There is something to having the breaks and breathers between big episodes that drives fan discussions and anticipation.
I wish more streaming platforms would consider this style of release.
I wish more streaming platforms would consider this style of release.
I feel like weekly drops are the default for most services that aren't Netflix even if some of them do all-at-once drops for select content.