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Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,651
I... don't get the no shoes complain

My best guess is this: asylum patients are forbidden shoes so that they don't self-harm/commit suicide with the laces. To use this knowledge as an aesthetic choice may be offensive in itself, or it may be the cherry on top of a less-than-tactful portrayal of mental illness.
Baptiste, Lucio, and Doomfist.
If we're counting Lucio, we may wish to add Reaper as he seems to be Afro-Latino
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,555
Symmetra should be mentioned when talking about mental illness in Overwatch.
Symmetra works for an evil corporation that pretty much exploits her autism to keep her collaborating with them, regardless of how you'd classify her, this is pretty fucked up.( she's still an amazing architect that has achieved a lot and an example to a lot of people, that bit just sours my experience considering they barely touched the subject since she launched)
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,232
Overwatch is miles ahead of most games when it comes to representation. Real representation.

So what is the ideal ratio? How many women? How many men? How many white/black/latinx/asian? How many LGBTQ+? How many mentally/physically/emotionally disabled?

Define that and hold every game to that standard. What major games are beating Overwatch at this right now?

This article is a bad joke.
The representation is on the same level as Tekken 7. It ain't that special. Fighting games have been doing that for decades.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
I think there's a difference between "I recognize Overwatch is a very diverse game and also I would like to see this particular identity that is not yet represented" and "there's no black women so Overwatch fucking sucks" which are very different things but the nuance is lost on the right-wing agitators who will use this for their agenda.
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,374
Overwatch is miles ahead of most games when it comes to representation. Real representation.

So what is the ideal ratio? How many women? How many men? How many white/black/latinx/asian? How many LGBTQ+? How many mentally/physically/emotionally disabled?

Define that and hold every game to that standard. What major games are beating Overwatch at this right now?

This article is a bad joke.

Keep in mind that fans have been noticing the lack of a black woman in Overwatch since its release, and Blizzard has been promising that they've been listening. Here's an article from last November, where Blizzard is addressing that:

Blizzard Explains Why Overwatch Still Doesn't Have A Black Woman Hero

Then, there's this response to an impassioned fan letter back in January by Jeff Kaplan:

Overwatch Fan's Letter To Jeff Kaplan About Black Women Gets Heartfelt Response

The closest we have on that front was the introduction of a black woman that you can't play as and only appears for a couple weeks in a co-op mission as a voice and portrait. And also keep in mind that early concept versions for both Ashe and Mercy were black, but for whatever reason, they decided to make both of them white in the end.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
I think there's a difference between "I recognize Overwatch is a very diverse game and also I would like to see this particular identity that is not yet represented" and "there's no black women so Overwatch fucking sucks" which are very different things but the nuance is lost on the right-wing agitators who will use this for their agenda.
Fully agreed
 

Surface of Me

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,207
Being Arab isn't synonymous with being Muslim, breh..

As a white guy I find it incredibly weird how many people conflate the two as being the same.

Back to the topic, it is weird there are no black women yet. I don't think the mental illness complaints fit though. Scientist gone mad goes perfectly with talking gorillas. And my friend that was in the military cried at the Bastion short when the PTSD part happened. Blizzard deserves credit for handling that well.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,153
As long as she doesn't have white hair when they finally do put a black woman into the game, I'll be satisfied. Considering the last archives event, it's not looking good on that front.
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,244
The lack of a black woman in the Overwatch cast is an extremely noticeable absence despite people talking about it being more diverse than other games. It is but I find their answers about blank women unsatisfying with each new character.I feel like we're a pretty underrepresented group in a lot of media. That's why Jacqui in MKX and 11 was so exciting.
 

Deleted member 56580

User requested account closure
Banned
May 8, 2019
1,881
Sigma is a brain washed Talon guy who's actually a villain.

I wonder, would people be fine if the later associated with the former in the case of a black woman finally being represented would make the choice actually validated by many ?

Or would a strong, black woman hero actually be preferred in that case ?

edit, for clarification : it is a genuine question about how it would feel, not a bait.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,628
The lack of a black woman in the Overwatch cast is an extremely noticeable absence despite people talking about it being more diverse than other games. It is but I find their answers about blank women unsatisfying with each new character.I feel like we're a pretty underrepresented group in a lot of media. That's why Jacqui in MKX and 11 was so exciting.
It's so fucking weird, it is such an obvious omission that you would have to almost go out of your way not to address it.
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,382
Overwatch is miles ahead of most games when it comes to representation. Real representation.

So what is the ideal ratio? How many women? How many men? How many white/black/latinx/asian? How many LGBTQ+? How many mentally/physically/emotionally disabled?

Define that and hold every game to that standard. What major games are beating Overwatch at this right now?

This article is a bad joke.

Absolutely, its so far ahead of other games. It isn't even ethnicity, they look to represent as many countries as possible too.
 

CobaltBlu

Member
Nov 29, 2017
818
I'm not really comfortable with the thing where we take all people of light skinned ethnicities, lump them together and then call them 'white guy/girl'. I'm not white and I like to see characters that represent me in games too, but I'd rather the Overwatch developers release characters that they are ready to rather than try to meet quotas. I do think they're trying to make a diverse game.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
Mexicans and Indians can't be black? Ever heard of Afro Latinos? Some of you have such a binary view of diversity.
"Mexicans" aren't an ethnicity as far as I know, so sure on that point. But as an Indiana myself, I don't think Indians would generally be considered black. Dark skinned Indians generally consider themselves to be dark skinned Indians as far as I've encountered, and a lot of areas in India don't have a huge presence of sub-Saharan Africans.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,628
I'm not really comfortable with the thing where we take all people of light skinned ethnicities, lump them together and then call them 'white guy/girl'. I'm not white and I like to see characters that represent me in games too, but I'd rather the Overwatch developers release characters that they are ready to rather than try to meet quotas. I do think they're trying to make a diverse game.
Why is it a "quota" when fans ask for something? And why is the term only applied to representation?
 

PapaJustify

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,110
Germany
I always thought Overwatch was quite good at representing multiple nationalities and ethnities. Maybe not perfect, but at least they are trying. How picky can you be about the portayal of a specific character in a game that features a talking gorilla and a roboball-controlling hamster.
 

Fart Master

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
10,333
A dumpster
"Mexicans" aren't an ethnicity as far as I know, but as an Indiana myself, I don't think Indians would be considered black. Dark skinned Indians generally consider themselves to be dark skinned Indians as far as I've encountered, and a lot of areas in India don't have a huge presence of sub-Saharan Africans.
Your race isn't something you have a choice in so it doesn't matter you consider yourself. It's like when Dominicans say they aren't black when most people would not be able to tell the difference between a African American and a Dominican American. It's just low key racism.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,628
I always thought Overwatch was quite good at representing multiple nationalities and ethnities. Maybe not perfect, but at least they are trying. How picky can you be about the portayal of a specific character in a game that features a talking gorilla and a roboball-controlling hamster.
You know you just compared races and genders to animals right? That is pretty fucked up cause you devalued and dehumanized people simply for what they are
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Sigma's mental health problem seems to be "consciousness split across time which makes him experience events in a nonlinear fashion" ,which really isn't the sort of thing that you put in the game to add diversity/representation. His backstory is straight up Event Horizon-style cosmic horror.

That Sigma's a victim being used and abused by others taking advantage of his current state seems to have been a deliberate choice to avoid the Spider-Man style "lab accident causes good scientist to go evil" trope.
Yep, I don't agree with the complaints about him at all and I've been on antidepressants since my teens and have friends that have been in and out of mental hospitals.

No black women is a serious issue though. Should have been Ashe, a black woman futuristic cowboy would have been the perfect subversion. Instead we got the worst case of sameface in the game with Ashe/Widow being basically identical outside of skin color and hairstyle.
 

PapaJustify

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,110
Germany
You know you just compared races and genders to animals right? That is pretty fucked up cause you devalued and dehumanized people simply for what they are

What? Where did I do that? I was simply saying that Blizzard is not exactly trying to make the game as realistic as possible. There is a comic-style to it and there can be some space for a few stereotypes and such.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,628
Yep, I don't agree with the complaints about him at all and I've been on antidepressants since my teens and have friends that have been in and out of mental hospitals.

No black women is a serious issue though. Should have been Ashe, a black woman futuristic cowboy would have been the perfect subversion. Instead we got the worst case of sameface in the game with Ashe/Widow being basically identical outside of skin color and hairstyle.
Buffalo Soldiers vs Aliens might have been worth watching
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
Your race isn't something you have a choice in so it doesn't matter you consider yourself. It's like when Dominicans say they aren't black when most people would not be able to tell the difference between a African American and a Dominican American. It's just low key racism.
I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about. Who is going around calling Indian people black? As far as racial colour terminology, "brown" is the one that tends to come up. Like, even old school racists didn't lump us together:

meyers_mapgnjy2.jpg
 

Locuza

Member
Mar 6, 2018
380
I think there's a difference between "I recognize Overwatch is a very diverse game and also I would like to see this particular identity that is not yet represented" and "there's no black women so Overwatch fucking sucks" which are very different things but the nuance is lost on the right-wing agitators who will use this for their agenda.
Ironically thats the impression I got from the OP and the post below.
"The community has been very vocal about wanting a black woman to become a playable and well-rounded character since Day-1 and we continue to hear claims of "we listen to the community" and "we respect diversity" and all this crap. Since launch we've now seen 9 characters added to the game, 3 of which have been white women. Why?"

This doesn't appear to be a nuanced take to me.

It's so fucking weird, it is such an obvious omission that you would have to almost go out of your way not to address it.
And this also appears as if a black woman is on a higher stance and that it's "fucking weird" das Blizzard decided again to include a hero which doesn't fullfill that request but represents something different.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,628
What? Where did I do that? I was simply saying that Blizzard is not exactly trying to make the game as realistic as possible. There is a comic-style to it and there can be some space for a few stereotypes and such.
That is not how it comics off. It comes off like you are saying that robot and hamster are acceptable fill ins for representation. It's the "Maybe not perfect, but at least they are trying. How picky can you be about the portayal of a specific character " part.


I always thought Overwatch was quite good at representing multiple nationalities and ethnities. Maybe not perfect, but at least they are trying. How picky can you be about the portayal of a specific character in a game that features a talking gorilla and a roboball-controlling hamster.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
The idea that minorities should be included in the game based on the number of requests they get is so ironic it hurts.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,396
Man, the game is doing so much right for diversity. Is it really fair to tear it apart for the few things it hasn't done yet or gotten to yet? Like, are we doing ourselves and minority communities in games any good by ripping into a game that's doing SO much for representation? There are only so many heroes. We can criticize them for not getting to any number of marginalized audiences yet. If they did one of those first, would we just be criticizing them for not getting to a different one instead? It's a bit exhausting.
 

PapaJustify

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,110
Germany
That is not how it comics off. It comes off like you are saying that robot and hamster are acceptable fill ins for representation. It's the "Maybe not perfect, but at least they are trying. How picky can you be about the portayal of a specific character " part.

The sentence you are referring to was aiming at the critique towards Sigmas character as being too stereotypical.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Yep, I don't agree with the complaints about him at all and I've been on antidepressants since my teens and have friends that have been in and out of mental hospitals.

No black women is a serious issue though. Should have been Ashe, a black woman futuristic cowboy would have been the perfect subversion. Instead we got the worst case of sameface in the game with Ashe/Widow being basically identical outside of skin color and hairstyle.
With the OW-PVE edition stuff popping up, I would not be surprised if it's because characters like Sojourn and Echo (aka Echo of Liao) are coming alongside it who are specifically tied to Overwatch's in-game history. Ana's the only OG OW-aligned character who's actually been released post launch.