• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Locuza

Member
Mar 6, 2018
380
Who is saying black woman are more important?

People are just saying that it is odd that 30 something characters a black female is a pretty glaring omission. You mistaking disappointment for anger
That's the impression the article from screenrant, the OP and your comments are sending out to me.

SCREENRANT:
"As the cast grew, players also became frustrated by the complete lack of playable black women, especially as more and more white women joined the roster. "

"Sigma represents not only a failure to represent mental health properly, but a missed opportunity to add more of Overwatch's touted diversity to the game. Adding another white man to the roster seems to betray its claims of diversity, especially when, with 31 heroes, Overwatch still has more anthropomorphic hamsters in its cast than it has black women. "

OP:

"I do 100% wonder why the hell we have yet to see a single black woman on that roster. The community has been very vocal about wanting a black woman to become a playable and well-rounded character since Day-1 and we continue to hear claims of "we listen to the community" and "we respect diversity" and all this crap. Since launch we've now seen 9 characters added to the game, 3 of which have been white women. Why? "

Your comment:
"It's so fucking weird, it is such an obvious omission that you would have to almost go out of your way not to address it. "

-----------

Because in all cases it seems like Blizzard did wrong to not prioritize a black woman in comparison to other heroes which brought another kind of diversity into the mix.
SCREENRANT lumps all "white woman" together and is speaking about the betrayal of diversity claims because till now a "black woman" is not included.
But diversity and nuance is a bit more than that, isn't it?

I understand the wish for XYZ or the preference of a black woman but then I'm confused by elements in the statements which kinda dismiss other forms of diversity as if they are lesser.

As an Autistic and bipolar person, FUCK Sigma and whoever created him
[...]
As a fucking "sign" that hes a mental patient and supposed to invoke mental asylums, fuck them
I'm mentally not healthy and of course I can only speak for myself but I have no issue with the depiction.
For me it looks cartoonish and I don't think it propagates mental health issues in a negative way.

I also think that the framework Blizzard has with Overwatch to "represent mental health properly" (as SCREENRANT says) is fairly limited.

But what's the reason that you feel so negative about it?

Just being a pedant: Sigma is Dutch, not Greek.
Thanks for the correction, when the topic arised about his nationality I somewhere read Greek.

And once again when the subject of black women come up it comes across as people telling us not to complain because the game is diverse already. That crap is annoying. There is no reason why this still can't be a criticism and still celebrate the other diversity.

Saying there's and Irish person or a Greek person doesn't change that. That's neat and I'm happy for you buuuut for a lot of people that's just another version of white and ignoring what people mean when they say the lack of blank women is a strange omission.
Actually my point is not to say that Overwatch is diverse enough and everyone should stop asking for a "black woman", I pretty much agree with the first half of your post, like asking for a "black woman" but also celebrating when other nationalities, ethnic groups or what not is included but the second half is like:
"I'm happy for you buuuut for a lot of people that's just another version of white".
For me that's a racist and dismissive standpoint.

Like what's your problem exactly, Symmetra is just another version of black for a lot of people, as is Sombra or Pharah, so you even got multiple black women already, so everything is fine right? (Like what the hell obviously)

Especially here many people speak about diversity, inclusion and to not lump together skin tones and cultural differences in a simple way.
So I would expect or appreciate it when that's not only done for a couple of certain people.
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
Man, the game is doing so much right for diversity. Is it really fair to tear it apart for the few things it hasn't done yet or gotten to yet? Like, are we doing ourselves and minority communities in games any good by ripping into a game that's doing SO much for representation? There are only so many heroes. We can criticize them for not getting to any number of marginalized audiences yet. If they did one of those first, would we just be criticizing them for not getting to a different one instead? It's a bit exhausting.
It's far more exhausting seeing posts like this acting like just because Overwatch earned a "you tried" sticker when it comes to diversity that it did enough, and thus shouldn't be criticized for how it handles minorities nor for what it excludes.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,495
And once again when the subject of black women come up it comes across as people telling us not to complain because the game is diverse already. That crap is annoying. There is no reason why this still can't be a criticism and still celebrate the other diversity.

Saying there's and Irish person or a Greek person doesn't change that. That's neat and I'm happy for you buuuut for a lot of people that's just another version of white and ignoring what people mean when they say the lack of blank women is a strange omission.
That's not what the article is doing though.
 

Kangi

Profile Styler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,954
Overwatch hit that ol' gamer-verified diversity quota so now we gotta spend every day being told that we're being uppity and annoying by asking for better.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
I don't get it either.

Are people disappointed that there's no black American women in the game?

Kinda, discussion of race in overwatch is...weird.

There used (still are?) to be people that said that Lucio didn't count as "Black" because he is from brazil.

There are people who argue Reaper is Black, but some people also say "he cannot be black because he's mexican" and other people say "he cannot be mexican because he is black" (Spoiler, you can be black AND mexican), also they argue the same for sombra, saying she doesn't count as afro latina when it's entirely valid.

So usually people argue that ana and pharah don't count "because reasons" and likely won't stop until an african american or african woman is added.
 

Ramako

Member
Jan 1, 2018
1,022
Canada

Speaking as an Egyptian, I cringe every time I read this. Though Egyptians have increasingly come to identify with Arab language and culture, we are not generally descendant from the Arabian people (who originate out of Arabia), and many if not most Egyptians bristle at being called Arabs.
 

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,369
An early 20's african woman who is a fierce enemy of Doomfist after witnessing him executing her family would be fire.
 

Deleted member 16657

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,198
Can you fucking imagine if the first black woman in Overwatch was a Talon controlled enslaved living weapon?
 

borat

Banned
Jan 2, 2018
534
the game relies far too much on lazy tropes like the 'blizzard can't balance multiplayer games' stereotype
 

Dega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,384
To so many people it seems that if you're dark brown you're also black. Anyone else get a little bugged by this? As a Mexican I have to admit It does annoy me sometimes. I have many dark skinned relatives that aren't. Can they be? Sure but just as likely (or moreso) that they aren't.

Dunno? Anybody?
 

J.Devesh

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
479
Honestly, accusing Overwatch of not being inclusive and complaining because the new character is not a black woman is ridiculous.

In the cast you already have people from all over the world and it's fantastic in my opinion. There is a lot of diversity and I love it, especially because they are not limiting the representation with only black/white characters but also Indians, Asians, middle-east, Latin Americans, Europeans and so on.

There are tons of games that lacks in the representation but overwatch is not one of them.

For the part related to the mental illness, well, I have to think about it.
 

Stall_19

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,001
Doesn't have a black woman...... So? Overwatch is plenty diverse. Diversity isn't a freaking checklist.
 

The Boat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,904
To so many people it seems that if you're dark brown you're also black. Anyone else get a little bugged by this? As a Mexican I have to admit It does annoy me sometimes. I have many dark skinned relatives that aren't. Can they be? Sure but just as likely (or moreso) that they aren't.

Dunno? Anybody?
That's because ethnicity is a social construct, there are many types of ethnicity classifications and it gets murkier and murkier when you boil it down to skin tone and appearance. Where does one draw the line between calling someone brown and black? Who gets to decide? There's a reason why there's discrimination between people of different shades of brown.
 
Last edited:

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,555
Can you fucking imagine if the first black woman in Overwatch was a Talon controlled enslaved living weapon?
The first black man lived in a favela and stole his fighting equipment so...
(Yeah you could argue his dad owned the tech but he still had to break in and take stuff)

Also the second one is literally kingpin lol
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,380
Indians as an ethnicity are not normally considered black, they are considered asian or south asian
If you're looking at Indians in South Asian sure but a better analogy to Afro-Latino's would be like some of the population in Trinidad. Panama is another example of a country that has pockets of people with Indian roots. Heck, they could have made Lucio a Japanese or Chinese (or even German) character and him being from Brazil would still be completely valid.
 

Deleted member 4037

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
Im not sure im on board with the article, the mental health thing is kind of odd thing with Symmetra being a good example of a character being capable. Ultimately I think the framing of the article is suspect, the character before was a black man, there are various men and women of color in the game, even the most prominent character is an LGBTQ+ rep which most game wont even touch on their cover. I think questioning whether they are trying to be progressive is short sighted. Is there things they could do better? Obviously, I know people have concern over the lack of a black woman character in the game, but Im not sure that cancels out all the good things its doing. Its a progressive game that could do better
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,737

Literally in the OP.

The lack of a black woman in the Overwatch cast is an extremely noticeable absence despite people talking about it being more diverse than other games. It is but I find their answers about blank women unsatisfying with each new character.I feel like we're a pretty underrepresented group in a lot of media. That's why Jacqui in MKX and 11 was so exciting.
Still waiting for that dark melanin woman, Blizzard.

Here are a few more. Again, nothing wrong with wanting a black female in Overwatch, but considering this article is claiming OW doesn't do a good job with diversity is somewhat annoying.
 
Last edited:

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,468
Australia
Isn't Sigma suffering from some weird sci-fi condition rather than a real-world mental illness? I get why people are making the connection, but I'm not sure it's entirely fair.

Also I'm fairly sure that the people complaining about his feet are just grossed out by feet.
 

RecRoulette

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,044
Sigma was originally going to be the big dude in the pic below before they changed direction (his abilities not matching the character). So it's not like they intentionally went out to add another white male. That said, Overwatch SHOULD'VE had another black woman by now considering how much people have asked for it. People always underestimate how much it means to people to have representation in a game, especially in a game like Overwatch that claims to strive to be better.

Then again this is the game that modeled their Mexico map on a city in Italy. Noble intentions but can't help but miss the mark.

ow-mauga-0505b4482307e8ce2ea8683c7deefaa9.jpg
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
The game overall has great diversity. The OP is complaining there isn't a black woman, but the cast for men and women is very diverse and it was very nice to see that it wasn't just black and white.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,717
Houston, TX
Sigma was originally going to be the big dude in the pic below before they changed direction (his abilities not matching the character). So it's not like they intentionally went out to add another white male. That said, Overwatch SHOULD'VE had another black woman by now considering how much people have asked for it. People always underestimate how much it means to people to have representation in a game, especially in a game like Overwatch that claims to strive to be better.

Then again this is the game that modeled their Mexico map on a city in Italy. Noble intentions but can't help but miss the mark.

ow-mauga-0505b4482307e8ce2ea8683c7deefaa9.jpg
They already confirmed that Mauga is gonna happen eventually, so I'm not too disappointed. But yeah, we should have gotten at least one black woman by now. Hopefully Sojourn is one of the remaining 4 healers & tanks coming between now & the end of 2020.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,496
They don't get that Overwatch is not just about race representation, but culture, gender, sexuality, etc. They are doing an amazing job at it (especially looking at the rest of the industry) and I wish they would get some praise for it instead of this constant whining.


I agree here. However I also think its natural. Show that you are one of the few that gives a shit, and you will naturally get viewed more closely than others who make it obvious that they don't care.

First through the wall gets bloody etc etc. I think their heart is in the right place with these sort of articles is my point.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,555
They already confirmed that Mauga is gonna happen eventually, so I'm not too disappointed. But yeah, we should have gotten at least one black woman by now. Hopefully Sojourn is one of the remaining 4 healers & tanks coming between now & the end of 2020.
Soujourn got a new profile picture, way more polished than her Recall version, i'd say her being in the game is a matter of "when" rather than "if", but as someone who's waiting for her since the times we called Ana "sombra", it's been a bit infuriating xD
(She looks dpsy though)
 
Last edited:

Zacmortar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,383
That's the impression the article from screenrant, the OP and your comments are sending out to me.

SCREENRANT:
"As the cast grew, players also became frustrated by the complete lack of playable black women, especially as more and more white women joined the roster. "

"Sigma represents not only a failure to represent mental health properly, but a missed opportunity to add more of Overwatch's touted diversity to the game. Adding another white man to the roster seems to betray its claims of diversity, especially when, with 31 heroes, Overwatch still has more anthropomorphic hamsters in its cast than it has black women. "

OP:
"I do 100% wonder why the hell we have yet to see a single black woman on that roster. The community has been very vocal about wanting a black woman to become a playable and well-rounded character since Day-1 and we continue to hear claims of "we listen to the community" and "we respect diversity" and all this crap. Since launch we've now seen 9 characters added to the game, 3 of which have been white women. Why? "

Your comment:
"It's so fucking weird, it is such an obvious omission that you would have to almost go out of your way not to address it. "

-----------

Because in all cases it seems like Blizzard did wrong to not prioritize a black woman in comparison to other heroes which brought another kind of diversity into the mix.
SCREENRANT lumps all "white woman" together and is speaking about the betrayal of diversity claims because till now a "black woman" is not included.
But diversity and nuance is a bit more than that, isn't it?

I understand the wish for XYZ or the preference of a black woman but then I'm confused by elements in the statements which kinda dismiss other forms of diversity as if they are lesser.


I'm mentally not healthy and of course I can only speak for myself but I have no issue with the depiction.
For me it looks cartoonish and I don't think it propagates mental health issues in a negative way.

I also think that the framework Blizzard has with Overwatch to "represent mental health properly" (as SCREENRANT says) is fairly limited.

But what's the reason that you feel so negative about it?


Thanks for the correction, when the topic arised about his nationality I somewhere read Greek.


Actually my point is not to say that Overwatch is diverse enough and everyone should stop asking for a "black woman", I pretty much agree with the first half of your post, like asking for a "black woman" but also celebrating when other nationalities, ethnic groups or what not is included but the second half is like:
"I'm happy for you buuuut for a lot of people that's just another version of white".
For me that's a racist and dismissive standpoint.

Like what's your problem exactly, Symmetra is just another version of black for a lot of people, as is Sombra or Pharah, so you even got multiple black women already, so everything is fine right? (Like what the hell obviously)

Especially here many people speak about diversity, inclusion and to not lump together skin tones and cultural differences in a simple way.
So I would expect or appreciate it when that's not only done for a couple of certain people.
Cartoonish depictions of mental health are ALWAYS negative, no matter what. Showing a mentally ill person as a scary or "psycho" villain is never not ableist as fuck.

Also, as a person who has been in multiple mental health institutions growing up, we dont walk around in bear feet and straight jackets, jesus christ.
 

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
8,446
I don't get what that's supposed to mean but the bolded is not even remotely true. Most people want white characters, which is why 99% of AAA games feature them front and center. What you mean is that, out of what you consider a minority, blacks are the most popular and requested and should take priority over the rest. And for me that's not how the inclusion of minorities should work, because it shouldn't be a popularity contest as it defeats the purpose of representing minorities.
Yeah, that's not even remotely true.

And even if it was, why is a "popularity contest" okay when people want white people, but not when people want black people?
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
It's honestly incredibly frustrating to see people here say Overwatch shouldn't be criticized for how it handles its cast of characters. It's like it doesn't matter how it portrays minorities, and that having them represented in the game no matter in what way is enough. Cause these characters only being barely more thoughtfully written than Street Fighter's cast is enough and people shouldn't want better than that I guess.

Also wow how the fuck can you defend how this game portrays mental health.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
Cartoonish depictions of mental health are ALWAYS negative, no matter what. Showing a mentally ill person as a scary or "psycho" villain is never not ableist as fuck.

Also, as a person who has been in multiple mental health institutions growing up, we dont walk around in bear feet and straight jackets, jesus christ.
I don't get the point of trying to represent mental illness in an fps for diversity points anyway. If you don't end up with a straitjacketed loonie, what are you going to do? An honest, relatable depiction of depression or anxiety in a hero shooter? Bring in Shinji Ikari as a support class? Fuck that. If I want to see my psychological quirks reflected in others, I'll just go outside and look around. How many people are medicated in America for anxiety/depression? 20%?
It's honestly incredibly frustrating to see people here say Overwatch shouldn't be criticized for how it handles its cast of characters. It's like it doesn't matter how it portrays minorities, and that having them represented in the game no matter in what way is enough. Cause these characters only being barely more thoughtfully written than Street Fighter's cast is enough and people shouldn't want better than that I guess.

Also wow how the fuck can you defend how this game portrays mental health.
"Woke" presenting media is judged much more harshly than "unwoke" media. They're just observing a phenomenon. Well, the one's that aren't just shitposting. So maybe two of them.
 

MCD

Honest Work
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,973
I think from Blizzard's point of view, they wanna release a black female when they want to and not when the media tells them.

If that's makes sense.
 

PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,972
Philly ❤️
Yeah this article is weird, tbh I've gotten emotional over this. Seeing people pick their characters and having teams that are mostly POC is so wild to me. I've never experienced anything like that in any other game, especially an online game. Theres this weird faction of people who ignore that because they haven't added a black female yet and while I understand their impatience some take it to the extreme idk. Everyone of their added characters have been so we'll designed that I have faith in them.

Does it please don't give us another Bangalore tho, tough military black women has been done to death.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
Yeah, that's not even remotely true.

And even if it was, why is a "popularity contest" okay when people want white people, but not when people want black people?
1. I never said it was okay in that case.
2. That's precisely my point. If you don't want it to be for one thing it's wrong to want it for the other.
 

Cyberclops

Member
Mar 15, 2019
1,451
Isn't the shoe complaint because it's an outdated idea of how mental institutions treat their patients. Forcing them to be barefoot is just unnecessary and they instead wear sock/slippers.

My favourite thing about how Blizzard has approached their roster is how they've been pretty good a getting voice actors of the right background. It help their characters feel less like stereotypes (even if they are mostly stereotypes).
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
Blizzard is an American company and the country is extremely biased against Black women. If you're putting out a game with a diverse character set then not having Black women, especially this far since launch, is a glaring omission. It also goes back to the first sentence, they may be a hesitance or an unconscious bias going on Blizzard's part.

Lol they should call Issa Rae up for consultation of any design proposals.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,654
Unfortunately for a lot of people "diversity" is just a buzzword. Some people just mean "I want to see minority groups represented but only ones that are common enough that I see them regularly in real life and know what they are". Sorry, Moira's too fringe, doesn't count!

Is Moira too fringe or is Moira too white? I don't play a whole lot of OW, I'm terrible at it, but the roster is great imo.
 

SeeingeyeDug

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,012
Isn't Sigma suffering from some weird sci-fi condition rather than a real-world mental illness? I get why people are making the connection, but I'm not sure it's entirely fair.

Also I'm fairly sure that the people complaining about his feet are just grossed out by feet.

Completely agree here. His mind is being ripped apart by a failed gravity experiment. What exact mental health condition that currently exists is his specific affliction supposed to emulate?

I don't get the whole "he's not representing mental health properly" when he's not suffering from any standard mental health condition anyone on Earth has ever suffered from.