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finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
I remember reading you can only generate keys for a product that is or has been on sale through the Steam store

Relevant portion:

Crowdfunding.
Keys can be used to fulfill crowdfunding rewards and grant backers access to your product. Providing backers with beta testing keys prior to release is also OK, but only backers should receive those keys --they shouldn't be sold outside of the crowdfunding campaign unless your beta is also available for sale via Steam.

Steam keys can only be promoted as a reward for products that have already confirmed Steam distribution -- it's not OK to use the Valve or Steam logos to market a product that is not currently under Steam Distribution Agreement. For ongoing crowdfunding that does not have a set end date, it is only OK to sell Steam keys if the product is also available for purchase via Steam at no higher than it is offered via your crowdfunding campaign. If you are selling Steam keys for a beta or early access version of your product, you must follow the early access requirements listed below.
My guess is as a result of their deal with Epic, they are going back on their distribution agreement as the game will never be distributed on Steam. Who knows, this is uncharted territory and I'm guessing special considerations would have to be made if Deep Silver even attempted to approach Valve about this, but I see zero reason Valve would want to be amicable in this scenario.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Historically, Steam would definitely trade short term profit for more user growth. I mean they even did it with Metro. But with the continued hostile nature of EGS things have changed. I agree that this is where Steam should draw the line and not allow Steam keys for this product even if Deep Silver decide to do that.

That would piss off the key resellers and besides, they're the one thing that people argue make Steam's control of the PC platform not a monopoly
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
Next time Deep Silver launches a big game, Steam should wait until right before launch then tell them they can't sell it on there for a year lol
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,909
"the game is made in Unreal Engine 4, and Epic has been giving great support. So we just made a decision together to say that this is the best PC platform to be on"
Oh FFS. EGS isn't a platform, PC is a platform.

At least they're "looking into" refunds. The AUD is pretty shit right now, $100USD could change my mind about buying it in a year on Steam rather than not at all.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
301
I THINK you can't generate keys if the game has never been on sale on Steam. They could generate Metro Exodus keys because it had been on sale for pre-ordering directly on Steam, but since Shenmue 3 has never been on sale on its Steam page, they can't generate keys. So I think a refund is all we're gonna get, if we're lucky. Of course, they could do something like opening Shenmue 3 sales for a second, inmedately remove it from sale, and I guess they could generate keys then lol. Or just give us the option to get a Steam key a year late instead of an Epic key at launch. I'd take that option.


That's not true, they can certainly generate beta keys. I've gotten beta keys for several small VNs that I've proofread for, and never had an issue with the games being removed from my account once the game officially released.
 

Amauri14

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,701
Danbury, CT, USA

I agree with what he said, after this (plus the other two), I really doubt that anyone is going to be backing a project with the same confidence as they did before, as it is clear that the project that they are backing can change the platform and even deny a refund without being affected.

Edit:


At least they are "looking into" giving the refunds now... ..not that their words have any value at this point.
 
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pezzie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,462
I'm definitely going to be more careful in the future, but I've only ever kickstarted two games. One is going to come out in a week. If it turns out good (which I am optimistic for) then I wouldn't hesitate kickstarting them again. But anyone with a history of going "fuck you, EGS" will definitely not see a cent from me.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
301
I agree with what he said, after this (plus the other two), I really doubt that anyone is going to be backing a project with the same confidence as they did before, as it is clear that the project that they are backing can change the platform and even deny a refund without being affected.

I had already greatly slowed down on backing projects (probably backed about 50 or so in the last 5-6 years), but now I'm done with it. Won't be backing any more Kickstarters for the foreseeable future, not even ones that announce "No Epic Exclusivity". Everyone can be bought, it's just a matter of their price. And it's clear Epic is the devil on developers' shoulders tempting them with big fat paychecks.
 

Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,623

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Except even that doesn't seem like it can be adhered to. KS's stance in this whole thing has been "it's on the publisher, not us", so since there's no actual repercussions what is stopping anyone from doing this again in the future?
The same thing that stops them from taking your money and retiring to Brazil never to be heard from again. Which is to say there's nothing stopping them.

It's Kickstarter, there are no guarantees or safeguards. The whole site is premised around your trust of the creators.
 

Amauri14

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,701
Danbury, CT, USA
I have nothing but sympathy for people that are going through this with Shenmue. It was never a game that interested me much but when 1 and 2 came to steam I was sorely tempted to buy em to give them a go, but never got round to it and kinda thankful now I did not support this chicken shit company if this is the amount of respect they have for their customers.

But with kickstarter and crowd funding I think it is time we took stock of things. I personally no longer back anything on any crowd funding service. I had my own bad experience of a developer blatantly lying and never making good on physical rewards it was a very expensive £150 lesson I can tell you. I honestly think it is time we stopped supporting kickstarter projects from what I have seen the developers using kickstarter have complete and utter contempt for their fanbase and we should just not entertain this behaviour anymore.

I know I will never back another game or project on kickstarter and I hope many more start taking this route, Developers are taking the piss out of our good faith and devotion and laughing at us.

Sadly I actually ended out buying those two, well, at least those games weren't published by the same publisher, so they didn't get my money. And I honestly think it is time for crowdfunding service designed in a way that it could give backers more protection in case the project that it is backed does something similar.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
I hope that Yu Suzuki enjoys that moneyhatted, bribe money of Epic's, because the next time that he needs another game funded, he's going to have a very hard time getting most of it!
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,710
USA USA USA
JeOLtjd.png
when you have to tell people that you don't want their money, in the way they want to give it to you, and they start talking about pirating a product they would normally buy

you're not very good at business in my opinion
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
A refund is cool but is it that difficult to honor the steam codes? Didn't Deep Silver do that with Metro?

Yea we didn't pre order it on Steam, but many people picked Steam digital code on the survey.
The whole article just reeks of greed while wishing they could pull it under the rug. Its clear to me that deep silver are the ones who are at the center of this issue because they are the ones wishing to ignore the luggage they got with a kickstarted game. What a bunch of assholes
 
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Deleted member 29237

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
803
when you have to tell people that you don't want their money, in the way they want to give it to you, and they start talking about pirating a product they would normally buy

you're not very good at business in my opinion
Especially when you use the platform they would have bought it on to communicate it, days after denying the same people what they paid for four years after they legitimately handed you an interest free advance for it.

Fuck this company, probably the most outright shameful thing I can remember seeing in years. At least Elite Dangerous offered refunds after reneging on their promise to offer an offline experience, and Phoenix Point after selling out to Epic. Many people have posted here that they are legally entitled to do what they are doing, but that doesn't excuse it. The law is fucked in all kinds of ways and protecting the average person from corporate greed is way down on the list of priorities.
 

Dr. Ludwig

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,525
I don't know why Valve even leaves the store pages up for games that take Epic's money. They're just giving them a free forum and community hub to use for a year.

Those two assholes Sweeny and Galyonkin said that the exclusion of forums and community hubs are a "feature" of the EGS after developer feedback. Yet people still created guides and provided tech support on Steam on the games that became EGS exclusives.

I find that wonderful and ironic.
 

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
8,212
Yeah, who mentioned pirating?
It was mentioned here and the poster was rightfully banned (albeit temporarily) for it.

If I don't get a refund, ill take the code and simply throw it away so that EGS never gets the forced install they paid for. Instead I'll do something I haven't done in 15 years...I'll find a hacked PC version and play that instead.

If it's being talked about here with tight moderation, it's definitely been brought up over at the Steam forums where it's the wild west. Not surprised DS has to spell it out and say, "Don't talk about pirating our game."
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,909
It was mentioned here and the poster was rightfully banned (albeit temporarily) for it.
I was more talking about DS mentioning it on Steam. I don't think I've seen discourse regarding piracy of S3 until I saw the screencap of that post. It's so weird.

I hope people don't quiet down while they're "considering their options".
I mentioned it earlier, but it's barely been 24hrs and I'm guessing they mentioned it during E3 so it would hopefully blow over. With any luck the it being during E3 might even amplify it.
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
I like the person that said "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"

Kind of says it all
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,710
USA USA USA
I was more talking about DS mentioning it on Steam. I don't think I've seen discourse regarding piracy of S3 until I saw the screencap of that post. It's so weird.
I very rarely see piracy discussed as an alternative to epic games store stuff on here or the steam discussion pages (bannable on both)

but it's very common on twitter and certain subreddits

piracy is a service problem, those are potential customers that you lost in many cases
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,423
So we just made a decision together to say that this is the best PC platform to be on."

How shameless can you be.

There is no incentive for Steam to give out download codes for a game they can't make any money from.
They should absolutely draw a line in the sand here and tell Deep Silver to deal with this themselves. That's the second time this happens.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608

neonneongod

Member
Feb 21, 2019
294
Steam allows this though. Any dev can generate keys and sell them elsewhere.

As posted above, not entirely true.

Relevant portion:


My guess is as a result of their deal with Epic, they are going back on their distribution agreement as the game will never be distributed on Steam. Who knows, this is uncharted territory and I'm guessing special considerations would have to be made if Deep Silver even attempted to approach Valve about this, but I see zero reason Valve would want to be amicable in this scenario.
 

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,003
Find it a little bizarre Epic would swoop in for Shenmue III

Poking around this small cherished project so late is not really welcome and I don't think the people handling the game could know.

Fucking hell Christ haven't you fucks with the fornite money got bigger fish to fry than fucking with people's Shenmue ration?
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
Can mods start giving week bans to people who comment in Epic threads without reading the Epic threads?

It should be the same thing for posters like JayCeeJim who constantly shitposts or does too much concern trolling by twisting facts/discussions around in their favor just because it doesn't fit their narrative. And the same towards people who defends companies & their shitty practices like Epic by telling people to support them, etc.

They sound exactly like Trump cultists/apologists that excuses everything Trump does, even when they're presented facts. It's pathetic. Sorry for bringing politics into this, but it's just similar.
 
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Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608

Relevant portion:


My guess is as a result of their deal with Epic, they are going back on their distribution agreement as the game will never be distributed on Steam. Who knows, this is uncharted territory and I'm guessing special considerations would have to be made if Deep Silver even attempted to approach Valve about this, but I see zero reason Valve would want to be amicable in this scenario.
I hope Valve prepared a tag, moneyhat for this special occasion. Steam users need to recognise this kind of developers.
 
Oct 27, 2017
125
Find it a little bizarre Epic would swoop in for Shenmue III

Poking around this small cherished project so late is not really welcome and I don't think the people handling the game could know.

Fucking hell Christ haven't you fucks with the fornite money got bigger fish to fry than fucking with people's Shenmue ration?

This reminds me of an anecdote from Trent Reznor who found a Nine Inch Nails album being sold for a way higher price than other albums in some record store in South America. Turns out Nine Inch Nails are not very popular there but those who are big fans of it are willing to pay whatever it costs to get it. This was from a while back, when Trent Reznor wanted to go independent like Radiohead and other acts like 10+ years ago so forgive me for getting any details wrong. The point is:

Epic thinks Shenmue fans are hardcore enough to buy the game wherever they can get it. I'm happy to see that it seems to have blown up in their face.
 
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