Should Hot Rod really be blamed for Optimus Prime's death in TF: TM?
- Thread starter Uzumaki Goku
- Start date
God freakin damn, still gives me goosebumps and i'm in my mid 30's.
Man this thread as sent me back down the hole of the Transformers wiki and youtube videos. I also discovered the unofficial 3rd party fan figures out there and ended up per-ordering a Big Firebird Nicee (a legally distinct Arcee figure). So this thread has basically cost me money.
I was 8 years old man. Prime was just the icing on the death cake. Wheeljack, Ratchet, Ironhide, windcharger, brawn and an entire planet got wrecked before the opening credits.
Yep shittiest character introduced, what a downgrade. So glad they brought Optimus back in the end.
Although "The Burden Hardest to Bear" was a neat episode.
Yeah, but the Autobots were low on Energon, as Prime confirms. They were easy pickings in their weakened states. Had Brawn been up to his usual self, he probably would have shrugged it off.
I mean, shit, even the Dinobots got mostly schooled by Devastator, with only Slag getting a good hit in.
The intent was cynical but they did a good job with it. I loved that movie. It came out when I was five, I saw it at the cinema, I had the audio tape that I would listen to on my Walkman with the accompanying Ladybird book and I got the VHS for my birthday and watched it again and again and again until I could recite the script by heart. Whilst all the deaths were done for marketing reasons it had the effect of elevating the movie from the rest of kid's TV where the heroes always survive. The time jump to the future was surprising and novel and many of the new characters were well designed and likeable. And the concept of a giant world-consuming sentient planet THAT COULD TRANSFORM INTO A TITANIC SPACE DEMON just blew my mind. Everything about Unicron was cool. His voice, his perfectly evil design in both forms, the fact that his guts were a maze of traps and danger.
You can say that the motives behind the narrative direction were shady but you can't deny the imagination and creativity that was brought to the project imo.
Criticisms of this nature remind me of those that were levelled at the time by critics. They are valid in the sense that selling toys was the driver but they ignore the possibility that good things can come out of bad motivations.
And the music of course.
Yeah, I guess it comes down to whether you liked the end result or not.
I suppose. You have to admit there was a bit more there than just a low-effort ninety minute commercial though? or not?
I'm not sure I would say it was low-effort, given that making a feature-length cartoon is obviously a big undertaking, but I still think it was a thoroughly cynical exercise.
On the other hand, it does seem to be beloved by a lot of people, so it's just a matter of opinion - and I'm certainly not trying to impose my opinion on anyone else. If you like it, all power to you :)
OP
OP
It was definitely hotrod''s fault
The way Autobots got murked by Megatron & Starscream...Optimus should've blasted him asap, save the monologue for later
The way Autobots got murked by Megatron & Starscream...Optimus should've blasted him asap, save the monologue for later
Hot Rod rigged the end of the battle to install himself as the new leader, as part of a deep Cybertron conspiracy. Notice the first blasts that hit Optimus are purple then the subsequent ones are orange.
When you play the game of thrones you either win or you dire. Optimus Stark barely knew what hit him. The Matrix of Leadership was in on it, too, refused to open when Ultra Magnus tried, ended up with him getting got
/c-o-n spiracy
When you play the game of thrones you either win or you dire. Optimus Stark barely knew what hit him. The Matrix of Leadership was in on it, too, refused to open when Ultra Magnus tried, ended up with him getting got
/c-o-n spiracy
This is good. It can be said the only reason we're having this conversation is because the movie had the courage to do what it did. It's what makes it memorable.
My problem is not so much that these guys died, specifically Prime. It's how they did. Am I suppose to like Hot Rod after that shit he did? He's directly responsible in my young mind for Prime getting killed. I mean, even the people that made the toys thinks it was stupid what was done.
But hell, they could have had him get shot for monologuing, without Hot Rod's involvement. I like where the story went after the death and all but have Prime die being an awesome warrior that gave it is all and then some. Megatron is fucked. Prime is fucked. I can deal with that. Setting it up that Hot Rod intervened in a battle that was clearly to the death is stupid. Fucking stupid.
What, this one? My wife would kill me if I ordered such a thing.
Holy shit.Hot Rod rigged the end of the battle to install himself as the new leader, as part of a deep Cybertron conspiracy. Notice the first blasts that hit Optimus are purple then the subsequent ones are orange.
When you play the game of thrones you either win or you dire. Optimus Stark barely knew what hit him. The Matrix of Leadership was in on it, too, refused to open when Ultra Magnus tried, ended up with him getting got
/c-o-n spiracy
It all makes sense, now.
Hot Rod rigged the end of the battle to install himself as the new leader, as part of a deep Cybertron conspiracy. Notice the first blasts that hit Optimus are purple then the subsequent ones are orange.
When you play the game of thrones you either win or you dire. Optimus Stark barely knew what hit him. The Matrix of Leadership was in on it, too, refused to open when Ultra Magnus tried, ended up with him getting got
/c-o-n spiracy
:O :O :O
Some things are worth dying for?
What, this one? My wife would kill me if I ordered such a thing.
He's called Hot Rod for a reason.
You guys paint him as some sort of Judas when he did awesome things throughout the movie. As a future leader should (ignoring how season 3 went.)
Hot Rod:
- is the first one to notice Decepticons on the shuttle and takes immediate action. Imagine if they landed and docked in Autobot City.
- finds a way to force the Dinobots aboard the shuttle.
- finds and repairs Kup.
- comes up with the strategy to take on the Sharkticons until the Dinobots come to the rescue.
- uses the universal greeting when he meets the Junkions to show the Autobots are not hostile.
- rounds up all the Autobots to escape Unicron. Kup even says he knew he had potential.
He's the man Ultra Magnus wishes he was.
Haha. I'd probably get it if I could. I do have the Takara Legends Arcee. She's pretty awesome and cartoon actuate.
Ultra "I can't deal with that now" Magnus is a loser.
He's also schizophrenic.
Lol. I suppose so. But Ultra Magnus could have done all those things instead and not be written to be responsible for getting Prime killed.
Ultra Magnus was a leader albeit a reluctant one and according to the creators of these toys the leader was always a big truck, not whatever the hell Rodimus was.
Haha. I'd probably get it if I could. I do have the Takara Legends Arcee. She's pretty awesome and cartoon actuate.
Ultra "I can't deal with that now" Magnus is a loser.
He's also schizophrenic.
Does she transform?
Rodimus was a motor home lol
Magnus was a car transporter wasn't he? Fucking rubbish.
Yeah but what do you know about the 3rd party legally distinct FansToys Rouge,Haha. I'd probably get it if I could. I do have the Takara Legends Arcee. She's pretty awesome and cartoon actuate.
and the unofficial 3rd party add ons to this unofficial 3rd party transformer? Though I'm pretty sure this forum is too weak to handle that knowledge.
Hot Rod screwed up.
But I still liked him way more than Optimus. I hate that transformers could never get away from Optimus and now Bumblebee.
I need to get around to finishing MTMTE comics and Lost Light.
But I still liked him way more than Optimus. I hate that transformers could never get away from Optimus and now Bumblebee.
I need to get around to finishing MTMTE comics and Lost Light.
I almost bought Rouge.
I did buy Mechfans Toys Flame Commander, because I'm a Rodimus fanboy.
This is a whole world of third party "Transformers" I never knew I needed to know about. About to get me back into collecting.
Hot Rod and Daniel were children who were left behind (along with the elderly old man, the girl, and the guy with ADHD) in the care of Ultra Magnus and a skeleton crew while the big boys went off to win the war.
Optimus Prime was responsible for the lapse in information security, and the strategic blunder which led to the attack on the shuttle and the attack on his under-defended Earth base, where non-combatants like Hot Rod and Daniel were staying. Do I blame Optimus for that? No. But Optimus was responsible. He committed too many forces to his front, and left his flank exposed and vulnerable.
It's was Hot Rod's childish disregard for rules that allowed Hot Rod to sound the alarm and disrupt Megatron's Trojan Horse attack, which is likely the only thing that prevented Autobot City from being a complete and total one-sided bloodbath. Hot Rod gave them the time they needed to raise their defenses and send a call for help. Every Autobot who survived that attack (Ultra Magnus, Kup, Arcee, Perceptor, Blaster, and on and on...) owes their life to Hot Rod and his disregard for Kup's pointless rules (why was Kup closing lookout point anyways?).
When Optimus showed up and saw the devastation, he flew into a rage. That's why he was such a badass. I mean, Ironhide was Optimus's oldest friend in the world, and Megatron fucking murdered him. When Optimus says things like "Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost" and "One shall stand, one shall fall" he's talking about himself running a suicidal berzerker kamikaze attack against Megatron. Yeah, it's fucking cool, but it's also fucking wrong for a peaceful man like Optimus to be saying and doing these things. That great man is hurting, you guys. You should feel a little bit bad about that.
Also, it's strategically unwise for the absolutely indispensable leader of the Autobots to be gambling his life against Megatron's like that. What happens if Optimus is the one to fall, and Megatron is left to roll over the rest of the Autobots unopposed? The Autobots rely on Optimus too damn much for that to be allowed to happen. But I get why Optimus would do that, it's because Megatron has pushed Optimus too far, Optimus has snapped, and Optimus can't stand to watch Megatron shed any more blood. It's an act of exasperation and desperation from Optimus.
When Kup says "Stay away lad, that's Prime's fight" after Hot Rod calls to help Optimus, that's not Kup being old and wise, that's Kup saying "Woo hoo! Hey everyone, we had a rough night, but Optimus has finally arrived to solve all of our problems for us again! Let's all put down our guns and grab some chairs and popcorn, as we watch our great hero put on a show for us in this epic battle of good vs evil against the guy we love to hate. What? Hot Rod? Nooo, don't help Optimus. You're ruining the epic story. We can't be the ones to fight Megatron. Only Optimus is allowed to fight him."
Optimus thought he won the fight against Megatron. But when the moment came, he hesitated. Because being a cold-blooded killer is not in Optimus's nature. He knows that he needs to shoot Megatron in his damn face, but he also knows that that's wrong. Optimus is torn and now he's waging an internal battle against himself.
Meanwhile, Megatron is not torn. Megatron is not fighting some honorable duel against his old opponent. Megatron will lie and cheat and do whatever it takes to win. Megatron saw the gun on the ground, hidden from Optimus's view, so now Megatron is playing for time. He's feeding into Optimus's internal conflict, while he waits for just the right moment of weakness or dropped guard to get the drop on Optimus. Optimus thinks he has the advantage, but Megatron has the real advantage here.
Hot Rod saw this, so he attacked. It was the right thing to do. He failed and became a hostage, but at least he tried. I do agree that Hot Rod would've been better served by shooting Megatron, but maybe he was out of ammo. But you know what? Maybe Kup should've shot Megatron. Instead of leaving things to the child of the group who wasn't even supposed to be fighting.
Of course, that child then went on to save Kup's life, saved Ultra Magnus (bah, in my headcanon he's still dead), and he fought Galvatron toe-to-toe when better bots like Starscream and Ultra Magnus died at the mere sight of the guy. Because Hot Rod is actually kind of a badass. Or maybe he's just too stupid to know when to quit. Either way, it works for him. The strength and wisdom of the Matrix would've been wasted on Optimus-clone Ultra Magnus, while they're exactly what Hot Rod needs. Ultra Magnus is a boring adult. Hot Rod is a child who screws up sometimes but grows into greatness. Just like Optimus Prime when he was young.
Optimus Prime was responsible for the lapse in information security, and the strategic blunder which led to the attack on the shuttle and the attack on his under-defended Earth base, where non-combatants like Hot Rod and Daniel were staying. Do I blame Optimus for that? No. But Optimus was responsible. He committed too many forces to his front, and left his flank exposed and vulnerable.
It's was Hot Rod's childish disregard for rules that allowed Hot Rod to sound the alarm and disrupt Megatron's Trojan Horse attack, which is likely the only thing that prevented Autobot City from being a complete and total one-sided bloodbath. Hot Rod gave them the time they needed to raise their defenses and send a call for help. Every Autobot who survived that attack (Ultra Magnus, Kup, Arcee, Perceptor, Blaster, and on and on...) owes their life to Hot Rod and his disregard for Kup's pointless rules (why was Kup closing lookout point anyways?).
When Optimus showed up and saw the devastation, he flew into a rage. That's why he was such a badass. I mean, Ironhide was Optimus's oldest friend in the world, and Megatron fucking murdered him. When Optimus says things like "Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost" and "One shall stand, one shall fall" he's talking about himself running a suicidal berzerker kamikaze attack against Megatron. Yeah, it's fucking cool, but it's also fucking wrong for a peaceful man like Optimus to be saying and doing these things. That great man is hurting, you guys. You should feel a little bit bad about that.
Also, it's strategically unwise for the absolutely indispensable leader of the Autobots to be gambling his life against Megatron's like that. What happens if Optimus is the one to fall, and Megatron is left to roll over the rest of the Autobots unopposed? The Autobots rely on Optimus too damn much for that to be allowed to happen. But I get why Optimus would do that, it's because Megatron has pushed Optimus too far, Optimus has snapped, and Optimus can't stand to watch Megatron shed any more blood. It's an act of exasperation and desperation from Optimus.
When Kup says "Stay away lad, that's Prime's fight" after Hot Rod calls to help Optimus, that's not Kup being old and wise, that's Kup saying "Woo hoo! Hey everyone, we had a rough night, but Optimus has finally arrived to solve all of our problems for us again! Let's all put down our guns and grab some chairs and popcorn, as we watch our great hero put on a show for us in this epic battle of good vs evil against the guy we love to hate. What? Hot Rod? Nooo, don't help Optimus. You're ruining the epic story. We can't be the ones to fight Megatron. Only Optimus is allowed to fight him."
Optimus thought he won the fight against Megatron. But when the moment came, he hesitated. Because being a cold-blooded killer is not in Optimus's nature. He knows that he needs to shoot Megatron in his damn face, but he also knows that that's wrong. Optimus is torn and now he's waging an internal battle against himself.
Meanwhile, Megatron is not torn. Megatron is not fighting some honorable duel against his old opponent. Megatron will lie and cheat and do whatever it takes to win. Megatron saw the gun on the ground, hidden from Optimus's view, so now Megatron is playing for time. He's feeding into Optimus's internal conflict, while he waits for just the right moment of weakness or dropped guard to get the drop on Optimus. Optimus thinks he has the advantage, but Megatron has the real advantage here.
Hot Rod saw this, so he attacked. It was the right thing to do. He failed and became a hostage, but at least he tried. I do agree that Hot Rod would've been better served by shooting Megatron, but maybe he was out of ammo. But you know what? Maybe Kup should've shot Megatron. Instead of leaving things to the child of the group who wasn't even supposed to be fighting.
Of course, that child then went on to save Kup's life, saved Ultra Magnus (bah, in my headcanon he's still dead), and he fought Galvatron toe-to-toe when better bots like Starscream and Ultra Magnus died at the mere sight of the guy. Because Hot Rod is actually kind of a badass. Or maybe he's just too stupid to know when to quit. Either way, it works for him. The strength and wisdom of the Matrix would've been wasted on Optimus-clone Ultra Magnus, while they're exactly what Hot Rod needs. Ultra Magnus is a boring adult. Hot Rod is a child who screws up sometimes but grows into greatness. Just like Optimus Prime when he was young.
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I've got better things to do tonight than die
BTW
why did Snarl get snubbed from The Movie anyways? did they run out of animators to fit him in with the other 4 Dinobots?
BTW
why did Snarl get snubbed from The Movie anyways? did they run out of animators to fit him in with the other 4 Dinobots?
I do like Hot Rod's ingenuity a lot. Like, what do you do when you face an enemy much stronger than you like Galvatron? You maneuver around his cannon beams and hit him repeatedly in car form lol
This is why I think Dare is secretly Hot Rod's theme. Also, Dare > The Touch.
This is why I think Dare is secretly Hot Rod's theme. Also, Dare > The Touch.
Yo...this is very well thought out. Good job!
I like hot rod and have always felt he got a bad rep. I also hate how dirty they did him in S3. They could've bought back prime without turning rodimus into a little bitch.
I will admit that on the surface level, I hated hot rod when I saw the movie as a kid. But then I grew up and started noticing different layers to the movie, and his arc...from his beginning to his redemption. Your post perfectly illustrates that hot rod is actually a great character.
It's true. Hot Rod is great.
Optimus is your standard Mr. Perfect. Boring.
This reminds me of the detail of Starscream firing the missiles at Megatron in Bayformers 1.Hot Rod rigged the end of the battle to install himself as the new leader, as part of a deep Cybertron conspiracy. Notice the first blasts that hit Optimus are purple then the subsequent ones are orange.
When you play the game of thrones you either win or you dire. Optimus Stark barely knew what hit him. The Matrix of Leadership was in on it, too, refused to open when Ultra Magnus tried, ended up with him getting got
/c-o-n spiracy
Why all this consternation over Optimus when the Transformers movie led to the death of the true hero of the people, Starscream!
What was his first order going to be, anyway? Some coronation.