Yes? Are you unfamiliar with their online disinformation campaigns and backing of things like Brexit and Calexit? The foundation of these things are on social media and message boards.
Should the United States of America be broken up?
- Thread starter Ignis
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I find foreign takes on the United States fascinating. I suggest reading about the Civil War. I'm not being patronizing, I'm just highlighting how much you can learn from that war and it's unbelievably fascinating. I'm from North Carolina, which is in the South but has steadily become more and more progressive over the years.
What's ironic is that the states that'd be most willing to break off and do their own thing are the states most dependent on the entire structure of the United States. The US is not that dissimilar to the EU if you break it down. California and New York are essentially the UK and Germany of their respective institutions. Most of America's GDP is contributed by NY and CA (CA would rank 5th in the world if it were a sovereign nation). The more right-leaning states that depend on agriculture and other products (coal, gas, whatever) would quickly drown without being propped up by the coasts. Point being, trade has impacted these states significantly, where most other projects can be made more cheaply elsewhere and are shipped into the United States. If we were to split up, it'd be an economic disaster. Many states would spiral into considerable debt and shipping would be a nightmare. Various disputes on who could travel where to trade and ship products would just not work. We're already 50 states. It'd be better if we consolidated even more to less states. But that would never happen.
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Actually made me laugh out loud.
I have nothing of value to add to this discussion anymore, it was just an idle thought I had which I laid out on a liberal online forum to see what others would say. It taught me a few things as all topics like this should, but also gave me a few laughs at some other posters views. Not much more to say really!
Edit: And honestly I find it more interesting to hear what other people have to say sometimes.
Ok well if Putin's plan is to break up the U.S. by encouraging these type of threads then he's losing his touch anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.
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It's not "red state" vs "blue state" it's rural vs not rural.
the problem is racist hicks who watch Fox News all day.
mall we have to do to fix the country is make their votes count for their numbers, not their land
the problem is racist hicks who watch Fox News all day.
mall we have to do to fix the country is make their votes count for their numbers, not their land
Have you not heard of troll farms? It's definitely a big part of their strategy.
De Gaulle is so complicated, but he did know the uk would be trouble.
For Russia?
Ok, well I didn't know the OP was part of a troll farm. OP - you should be ashamed of yourself for ripping apart a superpower!
What a dumb opening take. GJ
Why did you choose to spoiler the part where you acknowledge your coma-inducing take instead of just removing the take and give room to the actual 'idle thought' you planned to discuss instead?
Why did you choose to spoiler the part where you acknowledge your coma-inducing take instead of just removing the take and give room to the actual 'idle thought' you planned to discuss instead?
Like I swear ive seen either a post like this op, or something similar to op every few days in era now. It's ridiculous and needs to fucking stop.
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Because if I had taken it away someone would probably have had a go at me for editing out the coma inducing take out of the OP. Damned if you do damned if ya dont
It's not just that, it's also the fact that to the outside world, the way that the map of the USA is politically depicted is as a set of starkly-contrasting red and blue states, almost all of which stay red or blue, with only a small number changing occasionally. The red states often tend to be mostly contiguous as well. At a glance, to people who aren't really familiar with the USA, that can look a lot like a clear dividing line.
Once people are shown a county-level political map or a cartogram that's deformed based on population, the error with that perspective should usually be obvious, but people aren't normally shown that.
I think it is also worth noting that many EU citizens are going to approach the idea of national change with a perspective that is radically different then the one most people from the USA would have. The tumultuous past century of European history means that European countries are, in general, pretty new. The UK in its current constitutional state goes back to 1922, less then a century. France's current form, the Fifth Republic, was founded in 1958. Germany as it presently exists dates back to 1990. Spain only transitioned to being a democracy in the late 1970s. The Balkan countries in their modern form are about 30 years old. The Baltic countries are even newer.
There's exceptions but they're not common. The result is that many Europeans will not automatically assume that the continued existence of their nation state is assured, because a totally different nation state is within the living memory of their grandparents or parents. In many cases they remember it themselves. The USA, on the other hand, has been relatively steady for over a century - the only change within that time being the addition of Hawaii and Alaska, both of which had long been US sovereign territory anyway. I think a higher percentage of Americans are likely to view the USA as a semi-permanent institution, while a higher percentage of Europeans would be more likely to view nation states, including the USA, as being transient (in many cases from personal experience).
welp
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Well I edited it out, time to brace for the fallout lmao
And we've come full circle.
RIP Atlanta, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Charlotte, Rayleigh, Charleston, New Orleans, and Nashville. You just weren't good enough.
Seriously people need to get over these old 2004 era red vs blue state takes, we're in the middle of a realignment. The bible belt is now the sun belt and half of those states will be voting blue before 2030
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This thread has provided me with more laughs than I would have thought ngl
I believe the correct nomenclature is "Useful Idiot"
But yeah, it's pretty much GRU SOP to start secession movements in other countries.
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I'll submit that the problems with the United States won't get better if it's divided into factions, they'll actually get substantially worse.
Lots of blue cities in red states. You can't exactly cleave it cleanly.
Although Hawaii should definitely be given back. The overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom was straight up theft.
Although Hawaii should definitely be given back. The overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom was straight up theft.
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It's okay, I've updated the OP to reflect my newfound purpose in the Kremlin's grand scheme.
I agree. We should also make Russia give back a third of their southern landmass to Turkey--or the Ottomans, if you can find some
This topic gets made all the time. We're one country with several regional identities, but we're not obligated to fall along red state/blue state lines.
Last election several states who had previously voted for Barack Obama went for Trump. Does that mean we need to excise them from the map?
A lot of folks, including those who grew up right here in the south move to New York and California and make their homes there now. We know how big and economically important those places are. As a matter of fact, the almost otherworldly quality of those places is pretty much ingrained in you if you're from a smaller place.
No one chooses where they're born, and believe me, when you live in a shitty place you're constantly reminded of it when you look out your window. There's absolutely no need to keep reminding people because you're fuming at the president. A lot of us don't like him either.
Last election several states who had previously voted for Barack Obama went for Trump. Does that mean we need to excise them from the map?
A lot of folks, including those who grew up right here in the south move to New York and California and make their homes there now. We know how big and economically important those places are. As a matter of fact, the almost otherworldly quality of those places is pretty much ingrained in you if you're from a smaller place.
No one chooses where they're born, and believe me, when you live in a shitty place you're constantly reminded of it when you look out your window. There's absolutely no need to keep reminding people because you're fuming at the president. A lot of us don't like him either.
It is already broken and beyond repair.
There are 2 different cultures on the same house, and one of them wants the other dead.
There are 2 different cultures on the same house, and one of them wants the other dead.
This is such a great point wow. It captures a sensation I've noticed.
So that's the real reason why trump decided to halt their funding.
Sure, but another way to look at it is that De Gaulle didn't like the idea of France's influence in the EEC being diluted by letting in another big country. The UK's influence prior to 2010 was generally well-liked, from what I've read - the problem was a certain political party getting control in 2010 with an increasingly loud wing of mental Eurosceptics.
Warning: Stream of consciousness,
Honestly it's probably important to work through the logic of how it could happen and what it would look like. I think if it did happen it'd probably be at a point where the federal government is so weak or separate from what it's supposed to be (throwing out the rest of the constitution they already ignore a lot of), to a point where they couldn't stop the states who want to part ways. What would the military do? Would they force him out? Split up?
Looking at the state of our country right now doesn't make the future look bright. Honestly if it keeps going the way it is, it certainly seems possible that something historical like that could happen. Even with the aversion to war most of us have these days (especially a civil war). It just makes it seem like it'd be a more diplomatic separation.
The ship is sinking for sure, but for how long and what happens after?
Honestly it's probably important to work through the logic of how it could happen and what it would look like. I think if it did happen it'd probably be at a point where the federal government is so weak or separate from what it's supposed to be (throwing out the rest of the constitution they already ignore a lot of), to a point where they couldn't stop the states who want to part ways. What would the military do? Would they force him out? Split up?
Looking at the state of our country right now doesn't make the future look bright. Honestly if it keeps going the way it is, it certainly seems possible that something historical like that could happen. Even with the aversion to war most of us have these days (especially a civil war). It just makes it seem like it'd be a more diplomatic separation.
The ship is sinking for sure, but for how long and what happens after?
They should just to prove to the red states how dependent they are on the blue. They'll come running back begging a year or two after and unity will be the order of the day. Maybe the ingrates will even find a little gratitude.
This is not a one way street, the blue states would suffer as well without the less expensive labor and resources provided by red states.
The US economy is like globalization on a smaller scale.
There are no new games or movies or tv shows on the horizon and a lot of people are probably stuck at home going crazy. The normal internet, youtube and reddit news cycles have been interrupted along with everything else.
So these threads make some sense to me.
Lake county which I'm in also is. Then let just cook and lake be our own state.
Yes, the United States of America should be broken up.
People always say we can't have nice things like Finland and Norway because they are much smaller countries than USA is.
So the argument for breaking USA up is the same as the argument for having nice things.
People always say we can't have nice things like Finland and Norway because they are much smaller countries than USA is.
So the argument for breaking USA up is the same as the argument for having nice things.
I'm always baffled as to why there's a large set of folks on this forum that thinks the best way to help the marginalized and under-served in America is to royally fuck over the marginalized and under-served who happen to live in red states even more.
Lol it would probably be some combination of Lake (to control the entire coastline), Cook (obviously), and parts of Dupage and Will (minor farms and the third airport if the Peotone one ever exists).
No it will never break up, not so as long as there is a functioning federal government (I get it, Its absolutely not the best). Plus there is no mechanism for that. Not sure people are at a point where they are willing to lay down their life to secede. We can''t even get people to take PTO to protest ICE camps.
Most of this thread is europeans or others looking from the outside in, making knee jerk "break it up!" comments because they lack that type of deeper understanding of america's systems that you outlined, plus they're on a steady diet of "america is collapsing" and trump antics news coversge
I'm guilty of California secession fetishizing myself
Its basically "Your dumpster fire is worse than our dumpster fire"
I always gotta give a bit of a side-eye to people who seriously advocate for the US to break up, especially if they actually live in the USA because 9 times out of 10, they're some privileged white dudes living in a hella blue state like California who love to pride themselves over how 'progressive' they are over the dumb hicks living in the red states while blatantly not caring about what happens to the poor and marginalized peoples living in these red states if the USA were to break up like they seemingly want it to.
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