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Slant Magazine: The 25 Best Video Games of 2018

Dr. Mario

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,916
Netherlands
The Albatross said:
I disagree with the order, but it's checking off almost all of the games I'd likely have on my list this year (Forza Horizon 4 would be a top 10 game for me). Glad to see Guac 2 get some love, as Guac 1 was one of my favorite games a few years ago, though I haven't played Guac 2 yet.

I'm with the list having a bunch of under-appreciated/under-recognized games near the top, Guacamelee, Subnautica, Iconoclasts, etc... but then it's very odd of them to put Spiderman at #2 if RDR2 is down at 16. Like, the list makes sense, it's trying to highlight under-appreciated games that slip beneath the radar and elevate them to game of the year status so more people pay attention to them... so it's intentionally dropping RDR2 way down -- a game which may very well be remembered as one of the greatest games of all time -- which is fine... But then elevating Spiderman, which is still a good game, but seems out of place on a list like this. It'd be like Pitchfork having an album of the year list and it's predictably a lot of lesser known, under-appreciated, niche albums, but then Katy Perry is at #2, and like Ariana Grande is at #65.

Spiderman is definitely a good game, it's definitely one of the best 25 games of the year for sure, but ... Spiderman kinda strikes me the same way that Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor did back in ~2014. It was a major license that hadn't had a really good game in ages, and it the game was really solid with a good hook, got great reviews, had a ton of quality reception when it came out, but ultimately feels a little over-hyped because of the license.
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Spider-Man is probably my number one, and I think RDR2 will make my list, but definitely near the bottom. The main reason being that Spider-Man was way more fun to play, where I was bored for the vast majority of RDR2. Spider-Man also had better set pieces, and unlike Shadow of Mordor, a good story and gameplay variation.
 
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,627
Dr. Mario said:
Spider-Man is probably my number one, and I think RDR2 will make my list, but definitely near the bottom. The main reason being that Spider-Man was way more fun to play, where I was bored for the vast majority of RDR2. Spider-Man also had better set pieces, and unlike Shadow of Mordor, a good story and gameplay variation.
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I'm the opposite. Spidey is 10, and RDR2 is 1, with Into The Breach as a very close #2
 
dancingphlower

dancingphlower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,072
My favorite part is that Slant obviously liked RDR2 enough to include it on their list of the BEST video games of the year, and yet somehow that still isn't enough for people lol.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
2,572
Best take away from these lists is discovering new games.

I already see a couple I haven't checked out before.
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,829
I don't really understand why so many are so adamant about defending the list. I think when a publication puts out a list its a bit different from personal lists posted by anonymous message board posters.

When a publication puts out a list its not because they want to protect it as a deeply held personal belief. They either do it primarily as an article to provoke hits, readership, and debate, or they do it as a way of providing recommendations to interested readers.


I enjoy lists and I enjoyed this article. To me it is more fun because of the debate that it provokes and it will certainly get more hits because of that debate. But I also feel like with a publication I should be free to say where I disagree with them and where I would have gone differently. I don't see how they could have RDR2 at #16 and I certainly would not recommend to anyone that there are 15 games in 2018 they should check out before RDR2. I said it, nobody died.

Stop trying to create safe spaces for everything; its okay to have a debate. I mean what if they had put out a list that said Fallout 76 and Shaq Fu were the 2 best games of 2018. Would we not be allowed to comment because its their personal list? I think most would agree that would be a travesty, so certainly there is some relative level where comment is warranted. I would personally say that calling the list "trash" or dismissing it outright would be wrong, but I see no problem with critique and discussion about parts of it.
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I can see rdr beeing down a few spots. When i look at it, it appears plodding or overwrought. Gameplay looks thin. And in the weeks hence there's been a lot of people here talking about that and how the game is disappointing. It's not for everyone?
 
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ara

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,027
AndrewGPK said:
I don't really understand why so many are so adamant about defending the list. I think when a publication puts out a list its a bit different from personal lists posted by anonymous message board posters.

When a publication puts out a list its not because they want to protect it as a deeply held personal belief. They either do it primarily as an article to provoke hits, readership, and debate, or they do it as a way of providing recommendations to interested readers.


I enjoy lists and I enjoyed this article. To me it is more fun because of the debate that it provokes and it will certainly get more hits because of that debate. But I also feel like with a publication I should be free to say where I disagree with them and where I would have gone differently. I don't see how they could have RDR2 at #16 and I certainly would not recommend to anyone that there are 15 games in 2018 they should check out before RDR2. I said it, nobody died.

Stop trying to create safe spaces for everything; its okay to have a debate. I mean what if they had put out a list that said Fallout 76 and Shaq Fu were the 2 best games of 2018. Would we not be allowed to comment because its their personal list? I think most would agree that would be a travesty, so certainly there is some relative level where comment is warranted. I would personally say that calling the list "trash" or dismissing it outright would be wrong, but I see no problem with critique and discussion about parts of it.
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I feel like you posted this in a wrong thread, since none of what you said happened, has happened.

If you think something like people defending the list from any and all criticism has happened, read through the last few pages again and show me where.

Safe spaces... Good grief.
 
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,627
AndrewGPK said:
I don't really understand why so many are so adamant about defending the list. I think when a publication puts out a list its a bit different from personal lists posted by anonymous message board posters.

When a publication puts out a list its not because they want to protect it as a deeply held personal belief. They either do it primarily as an article to provoke hits, readership, and debate, or they do it as a way of providing recommendations to interested readers.


I enjoy lists and I enjoyed this article. To me it is more fun because of the debate that it provokes and it will certainly get more hits because of that debate. But I also feel like with a publication I should be free to say where I disagree with them and where I would have gone differently. I don't see how they could have RDR2 at #16 and I certainly would not recommend to anyone that there are 15 games in 2018 they should check out before RDR2. I said it, nobody died.

Stop trying to create safe spaces for everything; its okay to have a debate. I mean what if they had put out a list that said Fallout 76 and Shaq Fu were the 2 best games of 2018. Would we not be allowed to comment because its their personal list? I think most would agree that would be a travesty, so certainly there is some relative level where comment is warranted. I would personally say that calling the list "trash" or dismissing it outright would be wrong, but I see no problem with critique and discussion about parts of it.
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Criticizing the mindset present in your post isn't creating a "safe space". No one is saying you can't comment on or criticize a list.

The criticism is towards the mindset that thinks that general consensus means anything when it comes to personal tastes (and also the fact that writers don't play every game that releases), that because X, Y, Z is popular and are your favorites mean that you should expect that to be reflected in any and all lists. The mindset that seems to be baffled that people might value different games for different reasons and might find indie or lesser known games to be better/more enjoyable/more impactful than the biggest AAA games. The "how can X be higher than Y, must be clickbait", "where is Z, list invalid", "they only nominated those games to be controversial"-style of comments is what is being criticized

And yes, if a list had Fallout 76 as one of the best of the year, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with that, if the reasoning for why the game resonated with that person was well-explained and made sense
 
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Gozert

Gozert

Member
Oct 28, 2017
170
Rotterdam, Netherlands
More_Badass said:
Criticizing the mindset present in your post isn't creating a "safe space". No one is saying you can't comment on or criticize a list.

The criticism is towards the mindset that thinks that general consensus means anything when it comes to personal tastes (and also the fact that writers don't play every game that releases), that because X, Y, Z is popular and are your favorites mean that you should expect that to be reflected in any and all lists. The mindset that seems to be baffled that people might value different games for different reasons and might find indie or lesser known games to be better/more enjoyable/more impactful than the biggest AAA games. The "how can X be higher than Y, must be clickbait", "where is Z, list invalid", "they only nominated those games to be controversial"-style of comments is what is being criticized

And yes, if a list had Fallout 76 as one of the best of the year, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with that, if the reasoning for why the game resonated with that person was well-explained and made sense
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Amen, brother. This has nothing to do with safe spaces.

It's perfectly okay to debate these kinds of lists. No one is saying it isn't. I would even encourage people debating the list. The more different viewpoints, the better. However, coming with one liners saying how bad, or even invalid, a list is because game X isn't ranked high enough, game Y isn't there or game Z doesn't deserve to be mentioned is not what I call debating. At least add some of your own reasoning behind your thoughts or comment on the write-ups in the article. Keep an open mind, listen to each other and try to actually add something to the conversation. That makes for a much more interesting topic than lazily saying this list is shit (or great, for that matter).
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,829
More_Badass said:
Criticizing the mindset present in your post isn't creating a "safe space". No one is saying you can't comment on or criticize a list.

The criticism is towards the mindset that thinks that general consensus means anything when it comes to personal tastes (and also the fact that writers don't play every game that releases), that because X, Y, Z is popular and are your favorites mean that you should expect that to be reflected in any and all lists. The mindset that seems to be baffled that people might value different games for different reasons and might find indie or lesser known games to be better/more enjoyable/more impactful than the biggest AAA games. The "how can X be higher than Y, must be clickbait", "where is Z, list invalid", "they only nominated those games to be controversial"-style of comments is what is being criticized

And yes, if a list had Fallout 76 as one of the best of the year, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with that, if the reasoning for why the game resonated with that person was well-explained and made sense
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My contention is that a published piece like this doesn't qualify under 'personal tastes'. You (I think) criticized me earlier in the thread for saying that I had a hard time rationalizing in my own mind how they arrived at a particular opinion, and I even complimented the list overall, so I think the criticism of those being critical is extending beyond those who are outright dismissing the list or claiming conspiracy.

I get why its out of order on this board to tell other people that their preferences are wrong/invalid. But this isn't that, and anyone that decides to rank an artform and publish it is inviting (wanting) criticism/debate over their list. The magazine is called Slant for a reason.

I also don't think its entirely invalid to think that certain decisions they made were intended to be provocative. I'm not making that accusation, but hot takes to drive hits is pretty much ubiquitous in media these days. The "general consensus" doesn't get much notice.
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,829
Gozert said:
Amen, brother. This has nothing to do with safe spaces.

It's perfectly okay to debate these kinds of lists. No one is saying it isn't. I would even encourage people debating the list. The more different viewpoints, the better. However, coming with one liners saying how bad, or even invalid, a list is because game X isn't ranked high enough, game Y isn't there or game Z doesn't deserve to be mentioned is not what I call debating. At least add some of your own reasoning behind your thoughts or comment on the write-ups in the article. Keep an open mind, listen to each other and try to actually add something to the conversation. That makes for a much more interesting topic than lazily saying this list is shit (or great, for that matter).
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I agree with all of that. Take a look at my first post on the 2nd page of this thread and the response I got.
 
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,627
AndrewGPK said:
My contention is that a published piece like this doesn't qualify under 'personal tastes'. You (I think) criticized me earlier in the thread for saying that I had a hard time rationalizing in my own mind how they arrived at a particular opinion, and I even complimented the list overall, so I think the criticism of those being critical is extending beyond those who are outright dismissing the list or claiming conspiracy.

I get why its out of order on this board to tell other people that their preferences are wrong/invalid. But this isn't that, and anyone that decides to rank an artform and publish it is inviting (wanting) criticism/debate over their list. The magazine is called Slant for a reason.

I also don't think its entirely invalid to think that certain decisions they made were intended to be provocative. I'm not making that accusation, but hot takes to drive hits is pretty much ubiquitous in media these days. The "general consensus" doesn't get much notice.
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I've written for a few sites in the past. If it's an individual list, it's absolutely personal tastes. If it's a staff list, then it's still personal tastes but likely derived from each member doing their own list, and counting votes much like the GOTY thread here to create the overall order/list.

A list being published, especially when it comes to annual favorites for any medium, always comes down to personal taste. We're still talking subjective favorite movies/games/books/shows here. You should alway assume the choices are genuine, unless prompted otherwise by weird reasoning or lack of reasons.

Otherwise, you just seem like the weird one going "but maybe it's an agenda/clickbait/how could anyone/no one would really pick X higher than Y/etc" and thus people commenting on your posts questioning why in the world would you think that
 
labx

labx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,326
Medellín, Colombia
Yooo rdr 2 at 16th? The story of the game itself is worth to be at the top 5. And spidy at 2? I loved the game but was pretty damn repetitive. I preferred Assassin's Creed.
 
NervousXtian

NervousXtian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
The list is a good list of solid games... Spidey that high is crazy though... it's a good game.. but damn it was so generic to play in so many ways.. and the web slinging isn't really all that fun after awhile.

RDR2 is just a such a fantastic world to explore and live in... I've spent hours just appreciating vistas. It's not a perfect game, and some of the missions just aren't that fun, but overall... I don't know how anyone can say Spidey is better than RDR2.
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,829
More_Badass said:
I've written for a few sites in the past. If it's an individual list, it's absolutely personal tastes. If it's a staff list, then it's still personal tastes but likely derived from each member doing their own list, and counting votes much like the GOTY thread here to create the overall order/list.

A list being published, especially when it comes to annual favorites for any medium, always comes down to personal taste. We're still talking subjective favorite movies/games/books/shows here. You should alway assume the choices are genuine, unless prompted otherwise by weird reasoning or lack of reasons.

Otherwise, you just seem like the weird one going "but maybe it's an agenda/clickbait/how could anyone/no one would really pick X higher than Y/etc" and thus people commenting on your posts questioning why in the world would you think that
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I appreciate the background on the industry (particularly staff voting) and I hear what you are saying, although I'm not going to always assume 'genuineness' without some context, because certainly their are plenty of media out there that operate in a currency of clickbait. Moreover, I do feel like even when it is a person's genuine opinion, when they put the weight of a publication brand behind that opinion, they are representing that publication/brand and their opinion is influencing the industry and public opinion and game sales. So to me that is more fair game than attacking message board poster's personal preferences. I think we probably agree on that.


As I said before, I liked the list/article. I'd have put Celeste a bit higher, Spidey slightly lower, and RDR2 at 16 is a headscratcher for me personally (and that's more because I share the authors taste in many other areas and don't know how we could be so different with that one - and I recognized that he liked it, its just I also played a lot of the games in-between that and GoW on his list and don't think they measure up to RDR2.) Not saying wrong, just strongly differ with that, and I think most people would agree with me on that. General consensus of course isn't always just people being lemmings, but sometimes people just collectively agreeing that something is great. One of the things that might explain RDR2 is that this is a staff opinion. For me, its weird to see it ranked middle of the pack because most people tend to love it, and the minority that don't generally really don't seem to like it because of the slow pacing, etc. But a staff vote could certainly explain that, if one or two were in the hate it (unlisted) camp, then that could explain how it gets dragged down that far, whereas most individual reviewers will probably put it in the Top 5.
 
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CloudWolf

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,652
shaneo632 said:
Spider-Man #2? Despite the generic open world and lame stealth missions? Nah fam.

And Hitman 2 was a rushjob with awful cinematics and no story. I enjoyed the core gameplay but #9?
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How was HITMAN 2 in any way or shape a rush job? Sure, the story and cinematics are completely irrelevant, but no person in the world plays Hitman for the story and cinematics. In fact, the only Hitman game where they tried to actually incorporate a "meaningful" story is largely considered to be the worst in the series because of it.

The game is very well polished and possibly the best Hitman game so far.
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,829
NervousXtian said:
The list is a good list of solid games... Spidey that high is crazy though... it's a good game.. but damn it was so generic to play in so many ways.. and the web slinging isn't really all that fun after awhile.

RDR2 is just a such a fantastic world to explore and live in... I've spent hours just appreciating vistas. It's not a perfect game, and some of the missions just aren't that fun, but overall... I don't know how anyone can say Spidey is better than RDR2.
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Considering that this is a staff vote, the list might be more representative of not just the best games, but the best games where there was a consensus of opinion among this particular staff.

Reading opinions, while the vast majority seem to love RDR2, those that weren't enamored seemed to really not like it because of the pacing and controls. That is, there seems to be less middle ground opinion with RDR2 than most games. So maybe some authors had it in their top 3 and 1 or 2 put it very low or unranked and that's how it would up at 16.
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I played spider dashman on hard and it was alot more than just swinging around. It got honest to god hard but the balance held up and the fighting seriously shined. I didn't get a huge amount of play out of it but what i did play was a riot. It felt fresh and stood out, despite there being obvious room for improvement.
 
Dr. Mario

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,916
Netherlands
Claven said:
Yeah, sure. Because something as subjective as personal enjoyment of video games is EXACTLY the same thing as science. Good catch.
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It's not personal opinion if you assert that the low placement of RDR2 on this GOTY list was purposely contrarian for clicks, even though Slant gave RDR2 a 7 in its review. That's an assertion of fact, not personal enjoyment. Considering Occam's razor, this proposition is however much less likely than that the writers just have a different preference than you. That's why I ridiculed your my belief = your belief.
 
Wrellie

Wrellie

Member
Oct 29, 2017
698
Looks like RDR2 didn't make the top 5 at Polygon either. Apparently some people don't think it's a top 5 game this year.
 
overcast

overcast

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,463
Wrellie said:
Looks like RDR2 didn't make the top 5 at Polygon either. Apparently some people don't think it's a top 5 game this year.
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I don't see why this is being taken or used as an insult at the game. It's neck and neck with GoW for the most number 1's of the year. Just bizarre how much the specific placement matters to some. It's making most every list on some capacity, the game isn't struggling.
 
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