So Far, ‘Overwatch 2’ Only Makes the Biggest Problems With ‘Overwatch’ Worse

[abellwillring]

I tried to find some actual gameplay footage from Blizzard themselves and it seems like they're kind of keeping it close to the chest? I did see the Sojourn video which looks exactly like Overwatch 1 more or less. Is there any major difference other than OW2 adding in some sort of PVE element also?

 

[Wetalo]

I just wish they had Arcade modes in the beta, because the queue times are preventing me from playing tank or DPS.

I love playing healer but I wanna try the new heroes and I'm not willing to wait 10 minutes to do it. Quick Play Classic woulda fixed this issue.

Yes, it would have meant a shortage of healers and bad team comps, but also that we can actually try the new stuff out.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

Role que sucks. It killed the game for me.

 

[Kor of Memory]

They said they're aiming for about 4 for release.

Click to shrink...

I appreciate this, but I've been burned by Blizzard's "Well here is what we hope to do" before. And if the amount of content they haven't revealed yet is true, then one of two things is likely to happen:

1) That content won't make it to release, and will instead be the DLC over the first year of release.

2) The game is going to spend over another year in Dev hell and bleed out more and more fans.

 

[Noppie]

I just want to reinforce this, because this makes a ton of sense to me.

It feels like Overwatch 2 is designed around making the most appealing eSport to watch/play. Except by doing that, you alienate half your audience.

It reminds me of how 343 leaned super hard into the pro scene to balance Halo when they first took the reigns for Halo 4 and Halo 5. And while Halo 5 supposedly had some of the best multiplayer in the series, something about it wasn't attracting the average casual player.

It's like imposing NFL rules on people who just want to play flag football with their friends.

Personally, I never understood how the game could work with just 1 tank. Because a lot of tanks in Overwatch were designed to be "off-tanks" or "secondary tanks". Like how is Roadhog supposed to solo tank for a team? Or Hammond? Or Doomfist now? Doomfists whole deal was he was a melee character with a ton of mobility, but a tank is someone you're supposed to be able to rally behind. But if Doomfist is moving all over the place, how am I supposed to follow him as someone with virtually no movement options? Like Cassidy, or Zen?

Click to shrink...

Have you never played Overwatch? Like, if you have, how do you ask this about a game where half the time Dive was meta? How do you rally behind a Doomfist that is moving all over the place? Same as how you rallied behind a D.Va/Winston diving. You go in, you flank, you use the space the tank creates.

 

[Noppie]

I just wish they had Arcade modes in the beta, because the queue times are preventing me from playing tank or DPS.

I love playing healer but I wanna try the new heroes and I'm not willing to wait 10 minutes to do it. Quick Play Classic woulda fixed this issue.

Yes, it would have meant a shortage of healers and bad team comps, but also that we can actually try the new stuff out.

Click to shrink...

There's custom games with usually quite a few active quick play servers. Just join one of them and continue playing with the same people with 0 queue times.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

A lot of this seems like a knee jerk reaction to change. Part of me wonders why they didn't just have a faux OW2 mode in arcade where it had this same team makeup using the current hero abilities to test it out with more people so they could at least try to become a little more acclimated to it.

A lot of this feels like new fighting game/balance patch syndrome where it's all feeling wrong and broken in some way until you settle in on what's actually happening. A few of my work friends who still play OW religiously didn't like what they saw on stream, but once they tried it out they actually enjoyed it.

 

[Jroc]

It's obvious that there are like a dozen different factions in the Overwatch community that each have their own unique, incompatible complaints.

• "Role Queue is needed for balance/team comp" vs "Role Queue takes too long"
• "I hate shooting shields" vs "Support needs more protection"
• "Stuns ruin the game for good players" vs "The game is too oppressive without stuns"
• "The game doesn't reward individual FPS skill" vs "The game should be about team strategy not individual FPS skill"

All they had to do was keep improving OW1 with new maps, characters and reworks. The last new map was mid-2019 and the last new hero was mid-2020. Blizzard fucked themselves by hoarding updates and attempting to use them to create a half-sequel that will never live up to anything.

all that I've heard about it sounds abysmal. Lowering ttk in a game that's (ostensibly) about varied player abilities and the interplay that follows seems bad.

CoD-ification is like gaming's equivalent of that weird bimbofication meme.

Click to shrink...

One of the big complaints about late-stage OW1 was that the game revolved around shooting shields. The average sustainability of a character also creeped up over time as healing abilities were expanded. You ended up with high-damage, low elimination players who felt like they weren't achieving anything.

That was the logic behind revamping OW2 to focus more on raw FPS mechanics.

 

[benzopil]

I feel like the author has no idea what they are writing about.

 

[mojo]

Like I said before if Capcom did something like this with SF6 people would never let them hear the end of it.

 

[Lobster Roll]

I watched about an hour or so on Twitch of the Beta (yes, I know, it's not the same as playing), but I still came away thinking "that's it?". It feels bold to call this Overwatch 2 when it should just be a massive update to Overwatch as they sunset the original game. So much of it looks like the exact experience that I burned out on that I'm not gonna bother giving it a trial play myself. I've seen the footage. I've been there and done that for everything I see.

 

[Duffking]

Most of what the author is describing sounds significantly better than what I remember OW playing like, to be honest. Endless stalling and shield shooting at chokepoints bored me to tears. Might as well have only had 1-2 maps as they all degenerated into the same thing.

They are also completely replacing the actual reason role queue exists with one they've utterly made up, for some reason.

 

[Htown]

When the game eventually goes live it will replace OW1, which if OW2 feels worse than the first game is an issue.

Click to shrink...

wait, it replaces the old game?

that's really dumb

 

[Noppie]

wait, it replaces the old game?

that's really dumb

Click to shrink...

Some would really do well to rewatch the announcement from 2019

 

[TheMink]

Think whatever you want about OW2 (I happen to think it's almost exclusively a net positive)

But this article is extremely poorly written.

 

[Euler]

wait, it replaces the old game?

that's really dumb

Click to shrink...

It's a paid single player expansion with a patch that updates the PVP for current overwatch.

 

[Neoxon]

It does seem mostly positive, though I'm wondering reception differs a lot based on the type of player. Would be interested to see a breakdown on reception from comp / owl players, more casual ranked but regular players, then players who are just jumping back into OW.

Click to shrink...

Support players don't seem to be as positive about the changes, so hopefully support players get some love in future betas.

 

[Niklel]

Personally, I never understood how the game could work with just 1 tank. Because a lot of tanks in Overwatch were designed to be "off-tanks" or "secondary tanks". Like how is Roadhog supposed to solo tank for a team? Or Hammond? Or Doomfist now? Doomfists whole deal was he was a melee character with a ton of mobility, but a tank is someone you're supposed to be able to rally behind. But if Doomfist is moving all over the place, how am I supposed to follow him as someone with virtually no movement options? Like Cassidy, or Zen?

Click to shrink...

They reworked a lot of the tanks. I feel like Blizzard are reinforcing an idea that tanks should take space and draw attention, instead of literally protecting their own teammates by shielding them (which some tanks can still do, of course). In OW2 you are kind of forced to deal with enemy tanks because of how dangerous they are. Which, I assume, puts even more pressure on tanks.
With that said, it is very early to tell how OW2 is actually going to be played. So far we only played a beta version of quick play.

 

[Htown]

It's a paid single player expansion with a patch that updates the PVP for current overwatch.

Click to shrink...

Then they should have named it something else.

 

[Jroc]

They reworked a lot of the tanks. I feel like Blizzard are reinforcing an idea that tanks should take space and draw attention, instead of literally protecting their own teammates by shielding them (which some tanks can still do, of course). In OW2 you are kind of forced to deal with enemy tanks because of how dangerous they are. Which, I assume, puts even more pressure on tanks.
With that said, it is very early to tell how OW2 is actually going to be played. So far we only played a beta version of quick play.

Click to shrink...

Yeah we don't have any established metas or plays for OW2 yet.

As an aside, the whole "competitive vs regular" divide is another reason why Overwatch tends to be so controversial. The game plays really differently when you have a coordinated team of 6 as opposed to a random collection of strangers. Tuning a character a certain way can break them in the high-end or break them in the low-end. Pharah for instance can wreck a casual lobby but plays like trash in a higher tier lobby. Hard to balance around different scenarios.

 

[MouldyK]

I have been seeing this video get passed around (it's over 3 million views now) and man... It's brutal. But a lot of it is all true:




This commentary looks at the game from a very casual lens, which is to be fair may as well be 90% of this game's audience. The way the game was marketed as a sequel with the "2". The devs not having updated the base game for years had everyone this game would be mind-blowing and different, when really OW2 is a PvE game with PvP on the side. It's been years since the last major content drop, and this is all there is to it... Even OW pros and content creators are reacting to this video and agreeing with it. This franchise has to be one of gaming's biggest mismanagements and it's so sad.

Click to shrink...

I mean, I believe Dunkey played OW quite a bit, so he knows what's up. No wonder the pros are agreeing.

 

[Jakisthe]

The increasingly artificial composition limits - single hero counts to just one; role queue - just told me that Blizzard has no idea how to balance for heterogeneous team PvP and never will.

 

[Small Red Boy]

Role queue was a mistake, GOATS wasn't that big of a problem to implement it, imo. Other than that OW2 beta is fun and I largely see positive about it, except for the large queues, again, Role queue was a mistake. At this state I understand a lot of its criticism but I dunno, we'll see the end product that arrives. But I have to say I am not too confident on Blizzard to do a proper job, which is a pity because OW1 was one of my fav games for a while.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Have you never played Overwatch? Like, if you have, how do you ask this about a game where half the time Dive was meta? How do you rally behind a Doomfist that is moving all over the place? Same as how you rallied behind a D.Va/Winston diving. You go in, you flank, you use the space the tank creates.

Click to shrink...

I dunno... Have I?

Man... why is this gatekeeping BS still so common...

 

[Kaah]

I have been seeing this video get passed around (it's over 3 million views now) and man... It's brutal. But a lot of it is all true:




This commentary looks at the game from a very casual lens, which is to be fair may as well be 90% of this game's audience. The way the game was marketed as a sequel with the "2". The devs not having updated the base game for years had everyone this game would be mind-blowing and different, when really OW2 is a PvE game with PvP on the side. It's been years since the last major content drop, and this is all there is to it... Even OW pros and content creators are reacting to this video and agreeing with it. This franchise has to be one of gaming's biggest mismanagements and it's so sad.

Click to shrink...

That''s really the issue. They marketed this as a sequel to OW after years without updating the original game, of course a lot of people had very high expectation for this. In the end it's more or less a patch of the base game. And saying the real OW2 is actually the PVE stuff is even more dumb.
The reaction for this would have been much more positive if it was just marketed as a big update or "relaunch" of OW instead of what we got.

I'm looking at twitch numbers and it's really embarrassing, I didn't even realized the beta was still on. Hype deflated so fast as soon as people realized they played the same (better) game years ago.

 

[Chumunga64]

i'll wait for the PvE stuff to judge harshly

it always looked like the PvP wouldn't change that much

 

[Niklel]

I mean, I believe Dunkey played OW quite a bit, so he knows what's up. No wonder the pros are agreeing.

Click to shrink...

From what I've seen, the pros are agreeing that OW2's marketing is not very good and Blizzard are doing a poor job at communicating what OW2 actually is supposed to be. They also agree that Dunkey's video represents the opinion of "casual" playerbase.
As for the gameplay, I think most preos and content creators are happy with the beta (?). I haven't seen anyone saying that they don't like it, at least.

 

[Ada]

This article was clearly written by someone who has no idea what they are talking about. By reducing the number of tanks needed per match the number of available games goes up. The only reason why queue times are long in the beta is because there aren't enough supports queueing.

TTK hasn't changed, only the amount of cover has. In fact some characters numbers got tuned down (doom, tracer, zarya).

 

[Soiks]

Role queue was a mistake, GOATS wasn't that big of a problem to implement it, imo.

Click to shrink...

I'd have to disagree. GOATS broke the game at the top end and I was even seeing it further down the comp ladder before role queue came in.

 

[Mifec]

No wonder the pros are agreeing.

Click to shrink...

The pros are not agreeing. All I saw was them being happy.

Regular people are unhappy.

 

[Kuga]

Blizzard's marketing for the OW2 beta has been abysmal, I don't know if anybody could deny that. They've failed to properly communicate to people that the OW2 PVP is a free update (and I'm almost certain will be F2P in general), and on top of that they've supposedly held back multiple new heroes/maps for OW2 from the beta for reasons. At first glance, the casual player is going to look at the OW2 beta and see OW1 with a thin coat of new paint and some balance changes.

As far as how the game actually plays: I like it better than OW1. There are certainly balance issues to be addressed (for example, Soldier 76 at least in a pub setting is comically overpowered because of the lack of barriers and how DPS are played in OW2), but overall the game is much faster paced and you have significantly more agency as an individual player, even on roles like support. Also, the playstyle of roles like tank have changed drastically so somebody who is used to sitting at the choke, slowly holding W, and soaking up support resources is going to consistently lose their team the game. Aggressive play is essential in OW2 and it's a mentality shift from OW1, particularly for those in lower ranks.

Speaking of lower ranks, those who lack mechanical skill vs. their rank peers are generally going to have a bad time in OW2 until their MMR/SR is adjusted lower. You can still win by playing smarter, but people who relied on heroes like Mei or Brig to compensate for a lack of raw mechanical skill are going to find that "hard counters" are much less common and that you will die to somebody who can outaim you. The upside to this philosophy is that it also empowers you as an individual to have more capability to win fights for your team, whereas in OW1 if you picked the wrong hero or were up against the wrong hero and your team's composition wasn't equipped to handle it, often you would just lose. That said, a single person who is throwing or not doing their job properly will still sink their whole team.

Overall, if you enjoyed OW1 for the MOBA/strategy elements, don't bother with OW2. Shooter fans are feasting, however.

 

[Spinluck]

I have been seeing this video get passed around (it's over 3 million views now) and man... It's brutal. But a lot of it is all true:




This commentary looks at the game from a very casual lens, which is to be fair may as well be 90% of this game's audience. The way the game was marketed as a sequel with the "2". The devs not having updated the base game for years had everyone this game would be mind-blowing and different, when really OW2 is a PvE game with PvP on the side. It's been years since the last major content drop, and this is all there is to it... Even OW pros and content creators are reacting to this video and agreeing with it. This franchise has to be one of gaming's biggest mismanagements and it's so sad.

Click to shrink...

Dunkey's take sucks. He's a troll Plat player and doesn't know what real OW looks like tbh.

And lol Vice. The big problem was how Blizzard handled this by leaving Live on life support to make OW2.

 

[HylianSeven]

Well the biggest issue is that they haven't added a hero that fires Bobby Kotick in real life, as well as every abuser that's been protected in ABK, as well as taking actual measures to prevent the abuse that's occurred for ages, and not union busting.

I haven't played this beta and as of right now don't plan on playing the full game, but it sounds a lot like the issues I had toward the latter part of Overwatch 1's lifespan. Role Queue was a bad idea...the way it's implemented. I've made this comparison before, but Dota 2 also has a role queue...as an option. Dota's role queue is only available in ranked, and it's an option in addition to the "classic ranked" option, which is just everyone queues into a game, and discusses roles on the pick screen and figures it out from there.

Here's the chief difference between Dota 2's role queue vs Overwatch's: Heroes aren't set in stone in different roles in Dota. A hero that's usually considered a Safe Lane Cary could be a Support in another patch, or even in the same patch heroes can have different roles. I know currently I've played Medusa as both a mid and a Safe Lane carry, and both are valid. Overwatch's heroes seem to be "healing = support", and nothing else. I am fairly certain when the game launched, Symmetra was under "support" and still had no heal. Her support was and still is through things like her shield and teleporter, as well as defense with the Sentry Guns. I feel like you could argue this as a "support". In general I don't like the archetype that the only supports are ones that can heal. If Dota 2 can have two separate modes for both role queue and non-role queue, I think Overwatch can surely do it. I'm fairly certain Overwatch is a more popular game than Dota 2. When I still played OW1, I remember you would often get flamed for not picking safety rectangle man if you were tank. Picking that hamster as a tank usually led to you getting flamed for sure. Back to the Dota 2 example, heroes in-game have labels on their "roles", however these are mere suggestions based on what was popular or what Valve thinks they are (mainly for new heroes). For instance, Dawnbreaker is marked "Carry" and "Durable" in-game. The latter is definitely true, but no one plays Dawnbreaker as a position 1 carry. Everyone plays her as a position 3 offlane. It's this kind of fluidity to heroes and roles that I think would help make Overwatch in general a lot better.

 

[Niklel]

And saying the real OW2 is actually the PVE stuff is even more dumb.

Click to shrink...

But OW2 kind of is a "PvE stuff". It's clearly where the devs put most of their resources.
OW2 is PvE content + (presumably) a new business model for the PvP side. There isn't really any other somewhat obvious reason for OW2 to exist.

 

[Ghostbound]

This article reads like it's written by someone who doesn't really understand what they're talking about.

I have been seeing this video get passed around (it's over 3 million views now) and man... It's brutal. But a lot of it is all true:

Click to shrink...

This video isn't much better.

Also, his joke about Cassidy's name change (which isn't as funny as he thinks it is) and the fact that he continues to intentionally call him McCree is kinda suspect.

 

[Small Red Boy]

I'd have to disagree. GOATS broke the game at the top end and I was even seeing it further down the comp ladder before role queue came in.

Click to shrink...

I mean I don't see anything wrong with that clip tbh. And even then, the META is always changing and it was only a matter of time before a effective comp against GOATS appeared (iirc there were starting to appear some symm + bastion comps?? I might be missremembering, tho. My point still stands). Hero buffs and nerfs was still a better option.

 

[Nappuccino]

I don't know. I had a fun time playing the beta.

Playing a support was thrilling because everyone was gunning for you, but with more environment in the world, I could actually weave and hide instead of just getting caught in the open because my tank ran away.

Role Que seems like a necessary evil what with the clearly defined roles, but people should just pick multiple roles before queing. . . I got into the game quickly every time I did that.

 

[Yzec]

I haven't played this beta and as of right now don't plan on playing the full game, but it sounds a lot like the issues I had toward the latter part of Overwatch 1's lifespan. Role Queue was a bad idea...the way it's implemented. I've made this comparison before, but Dota 2 also has a role queue...as an option. Dota's role queue is only available in ranked, and it's an option in addition to the "classic ranked" option, which is just everyone queues into a game, and discusses roles on the pick screen and figures it out from there.

Click to shrink...

It's an option in OW too, they added 'open queue' in early 2020

 

[Spinluck]

I mean, I believe Dunkey played OW quite a bit, so he knows what's up. No wonder the pros are agreeing.

Click to shrink...

Dunkey plays OW a lot but he doesn't know what real OW looks like. Top 500 players are all saying that this game is funner. Wanted is the only player I recall saying that he will miss the team based elements of 6v6.

 

[Irrotational]

I don't know. I had a fun time playing the beta.

Playing a support was thrilling because everyone was gunning for you, but with more environment in the world, I could actually weave and hide instead of just getting caught in the open because my tank ran away.

Role Que seems like a necessary evil what with the clearly defined roles, but people should just pick multiple roles before queing. . . I got into the game quickly every time I did that.

Click to shrink...

You're not angry, disappointed, dropping hot takes, or making stealth brags about how much of a true OW player you are...I don't think you've got the hang of this internet thing...

 

[Kor of Memory]

Dunkey plays OW a lot but he doesn't know what real OW looks like. Top 500 players are all saying that this game is funner. Wanted is the only player I recall saying that he will miss the team based elements of 6v6.

Click to shrink...

Ooooooo.

Man... I hate to tell you but "Real Overwatch" doesn't exist without casual overwatch. Which begs the question which one is "Real" and should actually be nurtured and cared for.

Because technically: Casual can exist without ranked, but typically, ranked can't exist without casual...:

 

[Nappuccino]

You're not angry, disappointed, dropping hot takes, or making stealth brags about how much of a true OW player you are...I don't think you've got the hang of this internet thing...

Click to shrink...

Oh dang, you're right.

Uh. Well, Brig's Shield Bash sucks now.

 

[Hasney]

The pros are not agreeing. All I saw was them being happy.

Regular people are unhappy.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. Where they are agreeing is that the communication is still horrible and it makes everything seem bad to people not caught up. Which is totally agreeable with.

 

[HylianSeven]

It's an option in OW too, they added 'open queue' in early 2020

Click to shrink...

Shows how much I have played since then lol. Is it actually populated?

 

[samcastor]

This remains the most stupid way to rebrand as a sequel. All this could have been done through updates to OW already. They could have patched in the PvE when it was done to the last game. They are gonna need more than the number 2 on the box to revitalize people's interest

 

[Spinluck]

I mean I don't see anything wrong with that clip tbh. And even then, the META is always changing and it was only a matter of time before a effective comp against GOATS appeared (iirc there were starting to appear some symm + bastion comps?? I might be missremembering, tho. My point still stands). Hero buffs and nerfs was still a better option.

Click to shrink...

What effective comp against GOATs were gonna appear? What was going to outclasse 3 Tanks and 3 Supports? Sounds more like waiting for Gadot.

There's no way, Support Ults are too powerful and Tanks take up too much space and can do damage with double/triple the health pool of DPS. Players cracked the code and unless they fundamentally changed something about the game there was no balancing it.

 

[Niklel]

Role queue was a mistake, GOATS wasn't that big of a problem to implement it, imo.

Click to shrink...

We had GOATS dominating pro games and competitive ladder for months, though.
And while we've seen some non-GOATS team comps win in OWL (shortly before the role lock was introduced), I am not sure there ever was a consensus that GOATS was truly beaten.

But also, GOATS wasn't the only reason why role queue was implemented. We had people asking for a role lock since early days of Overwatch, simply because some matches felt like a lottery: a team that gets actual tank (and support) players had a noticeable advantage.

 

[Älg]

People that complain about role queue are the type to instalock DPS in every game, flame their teammates for not playin Orisa, and then cry after they realise that the coveted quad DPS meta was not the path to victory.

 

[Exposure]

There's probably a funny joke that they could experiment with no role queue again because the general sentiment I've seen from high end players is that the various OW2 changes make things a lot more doable for solo carry moments and what not even if your team is having a bad moment, or if we're talking pubs, is just bad in general

whereas with OW1 yeah sure in theory it's team focused enough that you don't personally need to be the person that's good with aim skill

and then pre-role queue you get stuck in a sequence of teams who refuse to coordinate picks and it becomes the most awful fucking experience because it's team focused enough that a team that doesn't coordinate just dies

There's also the increasingly funny observation on my end that maybe it should be a full sequel full stop because the various changes are low key, but they're major enough that this is a really different experience from OW1 and that's going be very disruptive all things considered. That or implement Overwatch Classic as a thing and what not because otherwise this is going be a fascinating case of a game's multiplayer being replaced with something very different in focus.

 

[Nappuccino]

Dunkey plays OW a lot but he doesn't know what real OW looks like. Top 500 players are all saying that this game is funner. Wanted is the only player I recall saying that he will miss the team based elements of 6v6.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, it seemed like it's less this and more like the characters Dunkey played weren't all that different because they didn't need to be. He spent almost no time talking about the characters who had the biggest reworks so far.