What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 126 12.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.5%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 425 40.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 239 22.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%

  • Total voters
    1,047
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058


DSA has decided not to expel Bowman but will not re-endorse him unless he shifts his position on Israel/Palestine.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,349
The only difference between now and McCarthy 1.0 is the internet exists and there's no big giganto wave of neo liberal esque prosperity to shut people up
 

Anton Sugar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,946


DSA has decided not to expel Bowman but will not re-endorse him unless he shifts his position on Israel/Palestine.


Yeah, this has been a bit of a shitshow in a lot of ways and has exposed some big flaws in the way the org handles these things. It's a situation where no one ends up really happy. Members felt very alienated from this decision--the best any chapter could do was vote on what they thought should happen, but it didn't really have any meaningful bearing.




Like, the responses to this ranged from "this betrayal is non-negotiable, he needs to go" to "DSA is actually incredibly weak and expelling him means we lose a powerful ally". Sad trombone.

I personally like the metaphor (stolen from Tempest or Left Voice, can't remember) of a picket line. BDS is the picket line and Bowman is the scab. I also think that if DSA is too weak to influence politicians we endorse nationally, DSA probably jumped the gun on trying to get involved in federal politics. It's powerful at the local and sometimes the state level, but tbh I think the surge in growth the past few years probably went to Natl's head.

To me...Bowman kinda represents everything that I fear "socialist electoral politics" is/will ever be. He does and will continue to push for left/progressive causes, but still has clear ties to business and imperialist interests and doesn't seem to see contradiction inherent. Or he just doesn't care. That's another sobering reality DSA had to face: as an org, it's just not that important to him and doesn't have enough of a constituent impact.

RevLeft radio had a good episode the other month on critiques of DemSoc/SocDem: https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/turn-leftist
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,563
On the anniversary of Fred Hampton's death, reminder that he wouldn't be even 75 years old if he was still alive. Rest in power.

On a more positive note:

 

louisacommie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,596
New Jersey
megan mcardle popping off today

I remember years ago when an evil pink guy unironically used an article of hers to support a point if his and I lost all faith to even engage with a community.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Was just reading this bit of a letter that I think is good and intriguing.

Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1890

Marx-Engels Correspondence

"Unfortunately, however, it happens only too often that people think they have fully understood a new theory and can apply it without more ado from the moment they have assimilated its main principles, and even those not always correctly. And I cannot exempt many of the more recent "Marxists" from this reproach, for the most amazing rubbish has been produced in this quarter, too."

Truly history repeats, first as tragedy, then as farce.
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,246
"Unfortunately, however, it happens only too often that people think they have fully understood a new theory and can apply it without more ado from the moment they have assimilated its main principles, and even those not always correctly. And I cannot exempt many of the more recent "Marxists" from this reproach, for the most amazing rubbish has been produced in this quarter, too."

Truly history repeats, first as tragedy, then as farce.

I wish the excerpt didn't stop there, I want to see Engels name some names.
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
I wish the excerpt didn't stop there, I want to see Engels name some names.

You can find the full letter here but unfortunately he just goes on to talk about incest in ancient Greece.

Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1890

Marx-Engels Correspondence

Marx famously accused his son in law Paul Lafargue of "revolutionary phrase mongering" though, and I imagine Engels is thinking of something like that.

I really wish Marx or Engels had survived until 1917 just to see what their reactions would have been.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,563
One billion Americans guy gets paid to post every dumb fuck thought he has. Wish that were me.
 

louisacommie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,596
New Jersey

Harm reduction is over

Though the case was never good before this. And indepent this the biden immigration policy is terrible even compared to Obama, especially with the maintenance of trump "covid era policy"
 
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Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
And indepent this the biden immigration policy is terrible even compared to Obama, especially with the maintenance of trump "covid era policy"
Obama's border policy was mostly to continue and normalize what Bush started, so it's par for the course that Biden does the same with the racist shit Stephen Miller did.
 

louisacommie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,596
New Jersey
Human desire for normalcy, and specifically of ruling humans to not do anymore quote unquote handouts,, actually is magically stronger the the evolution of viruses and bacteria dont you know

And everyone's fave part of normalcy is student loans of all things.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,137
Chile
So, check this out

Sebastián Piñera in 2017 got 3.796.579 votes

José Antonio Kast in 2021 got 3.649.647 votes

So, the right actually shrank in 4 years, but radicalized.



That's actually the challenge for us. Boric's government has a tough challenge with no majority in congress, but the right doesn't have majority either. So it's the centrists who will have the final word. We will need to push for changes but make them gradual enough to be both acceptable and notorious so the people feel them. And the center will have to understand that this is what's at stake for the next elections. If Boric's government can't push laws, and isn't a good government because of it, the right, probably Kast, will have the next election won.
 

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,577
A mountain in the US
I'm currently reading Rosa Luxemburg's Reform or Revolution. Anyone have thoughts on it?

It's interesting so far and almost feels like a treatise on why social democracy can't create a socialist society (which I think lots of us relate to).

Also, just because it's what the library had, I'm reading the Indian edition of the pamphlet that was apparently printed in Bombay. Pretty cool/random.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,734
Honestly, not even social democracy is stable under capitalism. You establish the mildest of reforms and the vultures are already circling and picking at loose threads. American progressives in particular have little idea just how tenuous their model social democracies abroad are in Canada and the Nordics, how much corporate capture is the rule there too, and how they're already backsliding to a significant degree.
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,107
Honestly, not even social democracy is stable under capitalism. You establish the mildest of reforms and the vultures are already circling and picking at loose threads. American progressives in particular have little idea just how tenuous their model social democracies abroad are in Canada and the Nordics, how much corporate capture is the rule there too, and how they're already backsliding to a significant degree.

Yeah pretty much. That's probably why the US isn't going Karen on them. It's not too socialist to threaten their oligarchs.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,734
Yeah pretty much. That's probably why the US isn't going Karen on them. It's not too socialist to threaten their oligarchs.
And that the vast majority of representatives the world over are members of the same class that benefits from corporate capture in the first place... so yeah, that's a systemic problem that requires complete systemic overhaul. Shame that they spend obscene amounts of money and power closing off avenues of doing that from inside.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,563
www.vox.com

Why so much Obama-era pop culture feels so cringe now

How Hamilton, Parks and Recreation, and Harry Potter lost cultural cachet.

Debated making an ERA thread about this but I wasn't sure how it'd go. It's an interesting read regardless.

This bit got a chuckle out of me:

Early on in HBO Max's buzzy The White Lotus (not a show about pop culture liberalism per se, but very much a show about cultural capital), two terrifyingly cool college students begin gossiping knowingly to each other about Hillary Clinton. "Like she actually cared about the working poor," one of them says dismissively.

"She was a neoliberal war hawk," returns the other, Olivia. "She was a neolib and a neocon."

"Oh. Oh, is that the trendy thing they're teaching now, to hate on Hillary Clinton?" demands Olivia's mother, a high-powered executive in her 50s played by Connie Britton. "Hillary Clinton is one of the most influential women of the last 30 years, and many women in my generation very much admire Hillary Clinton."

"Mom, don't get triggered," Olivia says. She adds sarcastically, "We all love Hillary Clinton."
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,563
parenti-on-US-propaganda.png


Parenti is good.
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,107
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Anton Sugar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
Not sure about the rules on posts from Reddit, but this was a great topic on getting normies interested in socialism.

EDIT : Here's the link.

Talk socialist to me without saying socialism, class, Marx, capital, or left.

Basically socialism is still a taboo topic so we need to use plain terms of logic for our rhetoric. Something Bernie excels at.


Damn...
Recent RevLeft Radio interview with Second Thought on this, too:

revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com

Revolutionary Left Radio: Convincing Conservatives: Red States, Climate Change & Class Struggle

J.T. Chapman from Second Thought joins Breht to discuss their experiences living in deep red states, how to talk to and persuade conservatives and other non-socialists of our politics, major global trends that will shape this century, and much more! Follow JT on Twitter: Subscribe to Second...
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,137
Chile
Gabriel Boric has announced who will be part of his government cabinet.

Salvador Allende's granddaughter will be the new Defense head. She's in charge of the military now.

Also three communists will be head of Labor & Social Security, Science & Technology, and Government Secretary/Spokesperson.
 

Anton Sugar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
Gabriel Boric has announced who will be part of his government cabinet.

Salvador Allende's granddaughter will be the new Defense head. She's in charge of the military now.

Also three communists will be head of Labor & Social Security, Science & Technology, and Government Secretary/Spokesperson.
Nice. There's been a lot of speculation about how much the left will be represented in his government since he'll face a lot of opposition and there was a feeling he'd have to compromise a lot initially. I'm sure that will still happen in some ways, but this is encouraging.