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Spider-Man 2018's webswinging is concerning as a Spider-Man 2 fan
- Thread starter Lady Bow
- Start date
And yes, the speed seems slower in the new game. I'd like to point out the 2nd GIF is an awkward situation. The person threw out a web at the last second right above a rooftop, leaving no room for him to swing on an actual arc.
Don't get me wrong, the game still looks fantastic as a whole and the way Spider-Man does contextual animations while swinging looks flashy and great.
I just wish they opted for a more physics-based route and added an advanced swinging mode or something for fans looking for a more skill-based swinging system that did less on faking speed. I doubt they're going to make any major changes to the systems since the game is close to going gold but we'll see.
OP
OP
What's the purpose of putting out game media if not to be judged?
Also not knocking you for this but can you elaborate on the design decision to cut momentum as shown in the gif I posted? Or is this unintended behavior?
Yeah, I also noticed that. Spidey diving off the top of the Empire State building and then swinging from a web right before he hits the ground should launch him into the stratosphere. But instead, it has the same effect as swinging from any other height. Disappointing.
I don't like the way of thinking of "the majority is always right", a lot of people, me included, pointed out how Spiderman easly lose (or doesn't build up at all) momentum from that deep dive (and a lot of other occasions), and it's clear for anyone who know how simple physic works and live on planet Earth.
Yeah, we didn't played it, so it could clearly be less pronunced while you play it, but dismiss those opinions with a sort of: "a lot of people say the game plays good so we nailed the web-swinging and that's it" isn't really kind to say or to read, expecially from a dev of the game, it seems to dimish and ridiculize our opinions in regard.
it's not even better than a song from over 3 decades prior! (that's how this thread works right?)
The thing that bothers me the most is the wall running. It's so.....rough. like there is no real transition into the running, it's just looks like hisnfeet automatically starts running. Like his legs don't prep for the run or anything. I don't like that at all.
I think in SP2, he used to do a little front flip that would initiate the running but I can't remember. I wish they had like a jump off point on each of the buildings where when you released from swinging, he would do some sort of trick to then initiate the running so it doesn't look so rough. It sounds like it would be hard to implement but it should be something I hoped they considered.
I think in SP2, he used to do a little front flip that would initiate the running but I can't remember. I wish they had like a jump off point on each of the buildings where when you released from swinging, he would do some sort of trick to then initiate the running so it doesn't look so rough. It sounds like it would be hard to implement but it should be something I hoped they considered.
This is off topic but I just watched a video of Spiderman 2's gameplay (haven't played it in years) because of this thread and oh man is Toby Maguire's flat delivery hilarious. Anyway, I'm sure the web slinging will be fine. In the video I saw there were moments where he couldn't leave the ground right and it look pretty bad. Spiderman 2018 will have nothing like that.
Yeah, most of them straight up mediocre or bad. It's not weird that they're being compared to one of like.. 3 games that are actually okay.
Insomniac shouldn't strive for what others have done before, and it doesn't look like they are.
OP you should definitely not get this game. I would hate to see you regret spending money.
They wont change it. It's to close to gold.
There are lots of us though that have watched the several minutes of actual gameplay and are really looking forward to another hi quality exclusive for our PS.
Webslinging is such a huge part of this game it will probably ruin the experience for you.
They wont change it. It's to close to gold.
There are lots of us though that have watched the several minutes of actual gameplay and are really looking forward to another hi quality exclusive for our PS.
Webslinging is such a huge part of this game it will probably ruin the experience for you.
I mean yes we're all watching videos meanwhile ppl have played it and given them feedback. I'm gonna listen to the play testers and ppl who've actually played before any of you absolutely
I wonder if Spider-Man 2's approach is more realistic. A Spider-Man webline wouldn't be an entirely rigid rope, it would be something elastic like a bungee cord. So, while I don't think it looks quite right in the PS4 version, the idea of your fall speed being dampened as kinetic energy is absorbed by the webline seems plausible.
Overall it seems to have been done to facilitate different methods of traversal. When you can just transfer downwards speed into forward speed I imagine it would be very easy to keep hurling yourself forwards with swings rather than having to rely of free-running or web zip lines.
well... yes.
After a dive, Spider-man has to shoot a web on a surface to propel himself in a different direction. Looking at those videos it happens instantly, without any inertia.
I mean, even if he managed to do it in record time, I'm pretty sure that it could violently rip his arms off.
So yeah, I'll admit the last time I took any interest in physics was in high school, so could someone explain to me how this is realistic?
I've gone on about this topic endlessly on here. You can check my post history to see my take on some of God of War's reviews for example where I break down how little they're actually explaining about the combat. Unless you're going to in-depth YouTube analyses for that sort of thing, that's the minscule amount of subtance you're gonna find in the average review (which is what I'm talking about when I say "mainstream" review).
The main issue I'm discussing isn't Spidey's speed as such, it's that it doesn't seem like it carries over naturally from one action to the next. One bungled up swing in Spider-Man 2 could completely kill your momentum, whereas here every single swing just looks the same. Wall-running is another good example, the way and angle at which you hit a wall really matters in 2, whereas this looks overly forgiving and not, well, truly momentum-based.
EDIT: as another example, just from this footage I can already tell you that you're not be able to do a full Z-axis loop like you could in Spider-Man 2.
i mean we have a ton of accounts and impressions from all sorts of people who've actually played it vs. concerns of people who haven't touched it.
Is the web-slinging GameStop exclusive?
EDIT: Boo, you edited it.
We put a hands on demo on the floor that thousands of people played. We got lots of in person feedback and judgement.
It's be like folks seeing footage of test drives of a car and complaining from the footage about it looked around one hairpin turn when they weren't behind the wheel.
Half the complaint there is because the camera moves from the dive position back to gameplay position which makes it feel like he's just hovering when people make slowdown GIFs of it.
Worth linking to the original Reddit thread as well if it hasn't been already. Lots of discussion there.
Personally I think the new one looks great and don't have any concerns despite loving Spiderman 2 at the time.
Personally I think the new one looks great and don't have any concerns despite loving Spiderman 2 at the time.
1) Most people haven't played Spider-Man 2 or played it in over a decade. So I seriously doubt that any journal is actually comparing the two when they say that.
2) even if it is superior (dubious) how much of that claim is down to the presentation itself being fantastic?
3) there have been many things pointed out in this thread where the Spider-Man 2 swinging is shown to have more depth and feedback for the player.
4) Even if the swinging in the new game is better thar doesn't mean that there still aren't thing that were done better in Spider-Man 2 that Insomniac can incorporate.
Just look how he realistically slides against this wall. Hardcore swinging, yo.
That looks great. Add in a contextual animation for him backing against the side as he half runs along it with the web still in hand and it would be considered seemless.
The game could sell 20 million copies and have a 95 Metacritic and it still wouldn't make those few complaints any less valid. Nobody is denying that it is a very niche issue that the gaming community at large won't care for. You guys are working on something that looks amazing but I'm not sure hiding behind the reception so far is very constructive.
I think it's to stop you from descending as the animation for shooting a web plays. It could be a compromise between having the animation play too quickly, or allowing your height to change which could mess with the rhythm of swinging.
It doesn't seem to happen all of the time.
So you can only say things that look bad in footage actually looked bad if you happened to be the person behind the controller when it looked bad? I don't really get it. It's clear you're not into any negative feedback, probably especially since the game is so close to release now, but this dismissive attitude is really not giving me a good impression of the final product.
Hey maybe someday someone will make a Spider-Man web swinging sim that seems to be what Spider-Man 2 fans want.
Good on jstevenson to clear things up.
For me I don't find it realistic to go from a vertical dive to a quick boost on a websling. Probably if he dived on an arc.
Still, it wouldn't be something I complain about, just you know, dont get how that is realistic. It's a smart gameplay mechanic though.
For me I don't find it realistic to go from a vertical dive to a quick boost on a websling. Probably if he dived on an arc.
Still, it wouldn't be something I complain about, just you know, dont get how that is realistic. It's a smart gameplay mechanic though.
Disappointing to hear you say that. There are a lot of things that could be polished. People aren't saying that you should perfectly recreated the physics model of SM2, rather there are elements that would be nice to see incorporated.
Just one thing I am afraid of (regarding swinging): as OP said, spidey starts swinging almost before he even shoots his web, you dont have to time it, just press the button and you know you are safe. It looks like this in my eyes, hope you got some gif providing me with some different outcome.
Game looks fantastic to me, but yeah that gif in OP is the first thing to give me pause for concern.
Edit: lol some interesting interpretations of what physics means in this thread.
Momentum is obviously not conserved in that gif, even if much of the system for swinging is based on (ie not an entirely accurate simulation) physics, that particularly thing appears to have prioritised slick animation over player agency.
Which was a problem with other Spider-Man games since 2. They tried to make it so the player always looks cool, but it came at the expense of nuanced control and meaningful input.
I'm not saying Spider-Man 2 was perfect, but that it allowed you to screw up was obviously a good thing, and it prioritised game feel over visually appealing animation.
Not writing the game off at all, but yeah, pause for concern that I didn't have before.
Edit: lol some interesting interpretations of what physics means in this thread.
Momentum is obviously not conserved in that gif, even if much of the system for swinging is based on (ie not an entirely accurate simulation) physics, that particularly thing appears to have prioritised slick animation over player agency.
Which was a problem with other Spider-Man games since 2. They tried to make it so the player always looks cool, but it came at the expense of nuanced control and meaningful input.
I'm not saying Spider-Man 2 was perfect, but that it allowed you to screw up was obviously a good thing, and it prioritised game feel over visually appealing animation.
Not writing the game off at all, but yeah, pause for concern that I didn't have before.
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What? How does slamming into the side of the building look great?
Momentum does not mean you get faster and faster, the underlined part is exactly what keeping momentum means.
Except I still never said "so I guess it's not physics based".
I am saying that their physics don't look right.
The swinging in this game is physics and skill based. The difference is the camera doesn't automatically follow in the direction of the swing, instead you control it, which if anything allows for more skill and creativity and you can pre-access and pre-prepare your route and direction in the middle of swinging.
Ironically just yesterday someone in the Spider-Man thread said they loaded up Spider-Man 2 and stated that it felt really rough. I think people need to take off those nostalgia goggles.
Personally I feel this looks far better, weightier and more realistic than in Spider-Man 2. It basically looks real.
Ironically just yesterday someone in the Spider-Man thread said they loaded up Spider-Man 2 and stated that it felt really rough. I think people need to take off those nostalgia goggles.
Personally I feel this looks far better, weightier and more realistic than in Spider-Man 2. It basically looks real.
This is what I figured when looking at some extended footage and how it's mostly stringing a bunch of traversal moves together seamlessly, but that doesn't invalidate people feeling a little disappointed if the swinging doesn't have the same weight as SM2; people may just have to appreciate the new game for its differences.
um excuse you pizza delivery was one of the best gameplay loops in any Spider-Man game
In any case though I kind of agree with OP, but I'm willing to give Insomniac the benefit of the doubt. I like physics based movement systems in games (Spidey, Sonic, Monkey Ball, Melee/PM, etc) but this looks close enough and fun regardless. Also Ultimate Spider-Man was way more fun than Spidey 2 imo anyway, including the webswinging. I hope this game recaptures that feeling.
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I mean, I get what you guys are saying, but at some point you either need to accept that the "correct" way to do things isn't just copying Spider-Man 2. This is a different game, with a different open world, and devs that want Spider-Man to have a different feel. At some point I need to put some trust in the fact that every impression from people who have actually played the game has been straight up glowing. There's only so much analyzing gifs will do, without a controller in your hand. So much of what will make this game work (or not) is how it actually feels to play.
It looks to me like the swinging in the new game is more about momentum thatn actually physics and tbh, until we play it it's really hard to tell whether it's better or worse than Spiderman 2's swinging. From what we've heard though it seems like it's got more depth than what it looks like, so the signs at least seem good so far
Yup OP. Also, the way that Spidey completely stops without inertia over some objects. The guy is at a super speed and then locks unhinged on a rail, post, ledge.... Is jarring.
We are still trying to polish the game and make it better, every day.
But the whole thesis of this post and another Reddit post is that SM2 is the only way to do web-swinging. That's what I'm reacting against.
I don't see anyone asking for a simulator.
Fans hold Spider-Man 2 as the pinnacle of swinging mechanics in these games, and are skeptical (based on visual evidence) of Spider-Man PS4 surpassing it. This discussion doesn't seem unreasonable to me - people praise parts of the game that look good, and express concern about parts of the game that don't look as good (to them).