Spider-Man 2018's webswinging is concerning as a Spider-Man 2 fan

[Yerffej]

The only thing that bothers me is the running up walls...

Kinda looks cheap to me

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Same. Everything else looks better, really. 2 had good momentum but you could swing too late and just ...land on the ground. It's good momentum until you realized there's not really a penalty and it takes you out of it. It's something I wish these games had. As sense of frailty if you fuck it up. Would make it more exciting swinging close to things.

 

[TornadoValley]

Yeah the physics don't really look great. Seems like they made some consesssions to make it easier to control, which isn't necessarily bad I guess. The webslinging looks good enough overall that I'm willing to overlook it.

The wall running also looks comically bad, I'm guessing that's another concession for the sake of gameplay as it certainly doesn't look like it'll slow you down.

 

[Deleted member 17207]

I really don't like some of the decisions they've made with the movement of this game. Faceplanting straight into a wall makes you wall-run forward? Looks ridiculous. There's no weight to his movements.

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[NotLiquid]

Yeeeeahhh I'm gonna have to side with the OP on this one. I thought the swinging looked overall pretty good in most of the videos and game play demonstrations I'd seen but the way the momentum just suddenly stops in that gif on the way downward is... awkward to say the least. One of the best parts about Spider-Man 2 was how amazing it felt to jump off of the highest point on a map and then just snap into swinging at speeds that felt like terminal velocity.

It's not like it ruins the game but it definitely tells me that it's not the best that it could be, and I think that's a fair complaint to have given how great the game looks otherwise.

 

[Rixan]

I see what you mean from that gif comparison, but the game looks visually spectacular

the animation on spidey from the slinging to the combat, its nearly sublime

also, impressions have been glowing

even if its not perfect (the slinging), i would hope the entire package makes up for it

 

[broncobuster]

The E3 clips do showcase the odd momentum of the swings, but I can understand why if Insomniac wants to keep players feeling on control of the swinging at all times. I mean, Spider-Man 2 had some complaints about being too difficult to control way back when by aiming for accuracy. Having played nearly every Spider-Man game since, they've been trying to strike a balance since SM2. And this new one seems to have hit the best balance yet.

 

[Lady Bow]

You don't get that by thudding into a building every other swing.

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You only thud into building if you suck at swinging. I see what you mean though with Insomniac targeting a more casual audience though. But Even Spider-Man 2 had options for easy swinging and advanced swinging.

 

[Nakenorm]

seems like its just going to get praised as its an exclusive and what not,

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Come on now...

That's why it's always the one every other Spider-Man game is compared to. Yeah, nothing special...

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You act like there's a ton of amazing Spider-man games to choose from.

It just looks weird he can wallrun vertically. The swinging looks fine though.

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The animation or that he can actually run on walls?? He's Spider-Man!

 

[Ultima_5]

Why is everyone being so damn defensive? The gif in the OP clearly shows the difference between Spider-Man 2 and the new one. Spider-Man loses all momentum the moment he shoots out his web in the new one and it looks jarring. Not caring about the swinging being as good as Spider-Man 2 is fine but why shit on people who care about that stuff?

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because people need to define themselves based on the media they enjoy! if the media is being critiqued they are too!

 

[HStallion]

I feel "physics based" in a lot of cases is just a round about way of saying,"I don't like this". Spider-Man 2018 is very much physics based, just not like old one. Insomniac directly addressed this in interviews. They don't want Spidey smashing into buildings and the like.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

I don't really trust mainstream game critics when it comes to this stuff lol

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there's your problem, you are quick to judge all mainstream game critics as inept.

and man, the usage of mainstream game critics. Can't believe gaming is such a big culture nowadays that some things are considered mainstream.

 

[Sephzilla]

Same. Everything else looks better, really. 2 had good momentum but you could swing too late and just ...land on the ground. It's good momentum until you realized there's not really a penalty and it takes you out of it. It's something I wish these games had. As sense of frailty if you fuck it up. Would make it more exciting swinging close to things.

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Yeah, I never felt like there was much incentive to fully learn how to web swing properly in Spider-Man 2. Since there was no real penalty for screwing up you could just swing around going as fast as humanly possible.

 

[New Fang]

Lol no I'm not, you are! That's my whole point lol.

I'm not saying the swinging here will work and feel just like SM2. Clearly just from watching any footage, you can see that's not the case, the devs have stated multiple times that they want momentum to be a big factor, so they've made intentional design decisions to make it so that the player can more easily keep their momentum going.

My whole point here is that the issue people are having is not that the swinging isn't physics-based, it's that the swinging doesn't completely mirror Spider-Man 2's feel. And that's fine to feel that way, but at least acknowledge that that's the issue you're having, and don't try to bring in technical terms that just make the argument look silly. Because of course this game is using a physics engine, it's just tuned differently to cater to the feel they want for the game they're making.

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So your entire disagreement with my comment "Doesn't look like it" boils down to semantics.

 

[_Karooo]

The GIF comparison just makes me excited for the new game. It looks so good.

 

[Nymphae]

This is not a Spider-Man Simulator, this is an action game. The point is to feel like a Spider-Man that is comfortable with his powers. You don't get that by thudding into a building every other swing.

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Keeping proper speed and momentum on a massive fall like that should not be impossible to do while having comfortable controls. You can keep all the assistive swinging stuff you want to help keep people from smashing into shit all the time, but come on, when you dive like that and shoot your webline, the momentum should keep up, not slow down like that. Completely immersion breaking.

 

[jstevenson]

Nobody complained who played it at E3. If anyone brought uo SM2 to me, it was to say that the swinging had finally eclipsed that game.

People are trying to make judgements off video comparisons of physics or camera movement. Those that have picked up the controller and understood how it /feels/ to play our game and combo the moves aren't walking away with any complaints

We are not trying to recreate SM2. We are doing our own thing, and if the hundreds of impressions from E3 are anything to go by, from fans to media to developers to executives from other publishers, we nailed the web-swinging

 

[Deleted member 17207]

Come on now...



You act like there's a ton of amazing Spider-man games to choose from.

The animation or that he can actually run on walls?? He's Spider-Man!

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No, not amazing games, but there are plenty of spider-man games.

 

[Arkanius]

The OP is showing gifs comparing both, and you all jump on him because "The press says otherwise so NU-UH"

It's a valid criticism everyone. But let's wait until the final game.

 

[Alienous]

Now that I think of it my recollection of Spider-Man 2 wasn't so much swinging, but using the momentum of a swing to catapult myself forwards several city blocks, then doing it again.

What I've seen of Insomniac's Spider-Man looks much more like how the character actually swings based on memory of Spider-Man 2.

 

[VirtuaRacer]

Do I really need to repeat what others have already explained in this thread?

In the older game the height of your fall played a roll in how fast you were whipped from the moment your swing imitated. In the new game that doesn't appear to be happening. You can be falling hundreds of feet towards the ground, suddenly initiate a swing, and Spider-Man smoothly glides into a graceful semi slow speed swing as if he jumped from 50 feet up.

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There's nothing slow about the OPs insomniac example. At all. Spider-Man just shot a web much lower down than the example he gave in Spider-Man 2.

 

[IfSleepoversCouldTalk]

the backlash towards spider-man 2 is hilarious to me
so much salt
yes the game nailed the swinging, and frankly I wish Bruce Campbell did the tutorial and narration for every game after playing it

 

[CloseTalker]

So your entire disagreement with my comment "Doesn't look like it" boils down to semantics.

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Semantics in that you're saying "Doesn't look physics-based to me" when you really mean "Doesn't look the way I want it to look, so I guess it's not physics-based".

Semantics, yup.

 

[Seeya]

You're not imagining things OP, from the first trailer I thought the slinging still looked "off". As others have said, it seems "safe", and not physics-based as OP pointed out. It's too Assassin's Creed-hold the button to do everything-looking.

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The swinging in this doesn't look like actual swinging, you get these big automatic shallow arcs that cover massive distances in this and when you combine it with the wall run which seems to be Sonic 06 levels of op and automatic (very very little consideration for your momentum going in) and the 'see a point, shoot web strains out, and yank on them to propel yourself forward' this doesn't look very good. It looks more like a series of moves that might as well be movement for a character that flies.

Maybe it's better in the actual game but...

 

[FFNB]

The rose tinted glasses when it comes to Spider-Man 2 makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes. If you've played it recently, it really doesn't hold up that well at all. I still have the copy I got from many moons ago when I was QA on that game and will play it from time to time whenever it's brought up all starry eyed in Insomniac Spider-Man threads, and I think, "maybe it's not as bad as I remember..." Nah, it really is.

Popping it in for nostalgia a little while back, the controls and camera are clunky and jank, and it's not as precise and fluid as you remember. The fact that people hold it up as the best Spider-Man games of all time is indicative of the sorry state of Spider-Man games we've had over the decades.

Impressions from people that have played the demo (not just journalists, but a few Era folks have played it too), have said the swinging feels fantastic, especially in comparison to SM2. Ultimately, we'll all feel it for ourselves a few months, but Insomniac doesn't live in a bubble. They know the expectations fans have for the feel of the swinging, and as fans themselves, I'm sure they want to nail that feel as well.

 

[Deleted member 17207]

The swinging in this doesn't look like actual swinging, you get these big automatic shallow arcs that cover massive distances in this and when you combine it with the wall run which seems to be Sonic 06 levels of op and automatic (very very little consideration for your momentum going in) and the 'see a point, shoot web strains out, and yank on them to propel yourself forward' this doesn't look very good. It looks more like a series of moves that might as well be movement for a character that flies.

Maybe it's better in the actual game but...

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This is something that for some reason isn't really being said enough, and it's true.

 

[PyroPaperPlanes]

For those who think Spider-Man 2's webswinging is too simple: You did switch the controls to Advance right? Half the fun is having both the left and right webslingers being independently assigned to L+R (instead of it being all done with R with L being designated a simple "boost" button).

 

[bunkitz]

Oof, yeah, I can see why you're disappointed. I'm not really hung up on it at all, but seeing that side-by-side and the lack of any sort of whiplash from a drop that high is disappointing. Still, I don't mind it much. I do hope Insomniac sees this and addresses it. After all, Brian Intihar says he'll keep on working on the web-swinging until the producers tell him to stop. One noticeable improvement from earlier builds I do really appreciate is the little camera angle rotation that happens when you do a sharp turn. Even from simply watching a YouTube video, it makes it a lot more exciting and immersive already.

One thing I am really concerned and unhappy about is the lack of proper inertia when hitting a wall. I know that they're going for that continuous flow and speed, but it really breaks the immersion from me when Spidey doesn't stop at all and just keeps going forward at the same speed. Especially when he does that tumble forward animation while running up a wall. I absolutely love everything else about the game and I get so giddy every time I watch any video, but that always ruins it (not much, but still) for me.

So, at the risk of being a rude little shit... jstevenson ? I hope the team sees this, although I wouldn't be surprised if you'd have seen this without getting the mention. I'm only expressing this concern because Spider-Man means the world to me and I truly want this to be the best Spider-Man game it can be. Not that I've any doubts about that, but if you can go beyond and get it even closer to perfection... why not, right?

 

[Jiraiya]

Nobody complained who played it at E3. If anyone brought uo SM2 to me, it was to say that the swinging had finally eclipsed that game.

People are trying to make judgements off video comparisons of physics or camera movement. Those that have picked up the controller and understood how it /feels/ to play our game and combo the moves aren't walking away with any complaints

We are not trying to recreate SM2. We are doing our own thing, and if the hundreds of impressions from E3 are anything to go by, from fans to media to developers to executives from other publishers, we nailed the web-swinging

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Must be a tinge frustrating to see stuff like this. People incapable of judging things on its own merits especially before they even get hands on.

 

[wondermagenta]

Lol no I'm not, you are! That's my whole point lol.

I'm not saying the swinging here will work and feel just like SM2. Clearly just from watching any footage, you can see that's not the case, the devs have stated multiple times that they want momentum to be a big factor, so they've made intentional design decisions to make it so that the player can more easily keep their momentum going.

My whole point here is that the issue people are having is not that the swinging isn't physics-based, it's that the swinging doesn't completely mirror Spider-Man 2's feel. And that's fine to feel that way, but at least acknowledge that that's the issue you're having, and don't try to bring in technical terms that just make the argument look silly. Because of course this game is using a physics engine, it's just tuned differently to cater to the feel they want for the game they're making.

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The devs keep using the word "momentum," but is that really what they're talking about from the footage? That word to me implies that you just keep getting faster and faster as you build up speed, and once you lose that momentum you'll be back to square one and start out slow again. This new game just doesn't look like that at all; Spider-Man seems to be reaching top speed (which is slow compared to 2) almost immediately, the speed of your previous action seems to have very little effect on how fast you'll go after. People have brought up numerous examples for this now.

When the devs say "we want you to keep up that momentum," it sounds to me more like they just don't want players to ever come to a screeching halt and get frustrated. They want players to be able to keep going very easily, which isn't really what I and many other players wanted out of this game. This is where this misunderstanding is coming from, when Insomniac say "momentum-" or "physics-based," they mean something completely different from what is commonly understood by those words in this specific context.

 

[VirtuaRacer]

The OP is absolutely right, and he proves his point right there in the gifs.

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The OP is comparing apples and oranges as the thread Spider-Man shhots in the 2018 gif is much lower elevation than the earlier game. You want him to slam into the floor chasing a smooth ark. That's not going to happen.

 

[Kaversmed]

I actually agree with OP on this one - there's something about that particular swing that feels unsatisfying. There should be a lot more momentum dropping from heights like that. With that said, I haven't tried the game so it might not exactly feel that way in the end. Also, still kinda bummed about the insta-wallrun when swinging straight into a building. It's like they designed the swinging without the ability to actually mess up a swing. Just my two cents. Still day one though.

 

[iamsgod]

Somehow I feel I just read similar post on reddit, are you the same poster? Also I heard from preview the webswinging in this game is good, so there's that

 

[Wiped]

Look what happens at the very end of the dive, when the player hits the "swing" button on each video. In Spider-Man 2, what happens is what WOULD happen if based on semi-real physics. Spider-Man takes a HUGE arc due to the speed of the dive, there's a whiplash sort of effect. In the new game (and in the GIF), Spider-Man weirdly stops in mid-air and then the swing starts after the animation. There's no momentum or whiplash/physics effect. It's like the dive doesn't matter at all.

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Ah yeah I kind of see that. It stops dead a bit more on the PS4 version.

Kind of a shame but in a weird way, as someone who doesn't like heights, I'm not sure how well I'd deal with the PS2 approach in 4K! 0_0

 

[Seeya]

Oof, yeah, I can see why you're disappointed. I'm not really hung up on it at all, but seeing that side-by-side and the lack of any sort of whiplash from a drop that high is disappointing. Still, I don't mind it much. I do hope Insomniac sees this and addresses it. After all, Brian Intihar says he'll keep on working on the web-swinging until the producers tell him to stop. One noticeable improvement from earlier builds I do really appreciate is the little camera angle rotation that happens when you do a sharp turn. Even from simply watching a YouTube video, it makes it a lot more exciting and immersive already.

One thing I am really concerned and unhappy about is the lack of proper inertia when hitting a wall. I know that they're going for that continuous flow and speed, but it really breaks the immersion from me when Spidey doesn't stop at all and just keeps going forward at the same speed. Especially when he does that tumble forward animation while running up a wall. I absolutely love everything else about the game and I get so giddy every time I watch any video, but that always ruins it (not much, but still) for me.

So, at the risk of being a rude little shit... jstevenson ? I hope the team sees this, although I wouldn't be surprised if you'd have seen this without getting the mention. I'm only expressing this concern because Spider-Man means the world to me and I truly want this to be the best Spider-Man game it can be. Not that I've any doubts about that, but if you can go beyond and get it even closer to perfection... why not, right?

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Exactly.

 

[CloseTalker]

The devs keep using the word "momentum," but is that really what they're talking about from the footage? That word to me implies that you just keep getting faster and faster as you build up speed, and once you lose that momentum you'll be back to square one and start out slow again. This new game just doesn't look like that at all; Spider-Man seems to be reaching top speed (which is slow compared to 2) almost immediately, the speed of your previous action seems to have very little effect on how fast you'll go after. People have brought up numerous examples for this now.

When the devs say "we want you to keep up that momentum," it sounds to me more like they just don't want players to ever come to a screeching halt and get frustrated. They want players to be able to keep going very easily, which isn't really what I and many other players wanted out of this game. This is where this misunderstanding is coming from, when Insomniac say "momentum-" or "physics-based," they mean something completely different from what is commonly understood by those words in this specific context.

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To be fair, they've said his swing speed and what not can be upgraded, so we don't know that. You started out slow as hell at the beginning of SM2 as well.

 

[thisismadness]

But that's what people liked about 2. It was purely physics based and didn't have any "smoothening" to make it more accessible.

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Oh I know thats what some people liked about Spiderman 2, the point is that I don't think Insomniac was interested in a 1:1 creation of that swinging style for their game.

 

[Bunta]

Never talked about realism being a factor in my post. Nice try though.

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Sure didn't, but other people are bringing up the fact that SM2 was "hardcore" when it really wasn't.
You also brought up skill-based swinging, which is funny because people are acting like using the web zip to pull yourself forward, the corner web tricks, etc. are just happening automatically and it doesn't involve extra button presses.

This has nothing to do with the physics of his actual web swinging.

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No way! /s
Being able to slide across buildings without consequence isn't exactly hardcore as others are trying to paint the swinging in SM2 to have been, which was the point of the GIF.

 

[NoKisum]

Not replicating Spider-Man 2's web swinging physics 1:1 is making this new Spider-Man game en route to being the worst game ever made next to Sonic '06.

You heard it here first, folks.

 

[Kage Maru]

I loved Spider-Man 2 but who's to say the swinging in that game wasn't wrong and Spider-Man 2018 is more accurate or correct? Isn't there also upgrades for web swinging in the game? I think it looks great. Originally I was concerned about the speed of the swinging but I've been happy with everything shown from E3 this year.

 

[IfSleepoversCouldTalk]

Not replicating Spider-Man 2's web swinging physics 1:1 is making this new Spider-Man game en route to being the worst game ever made next to Sonic '06.

You heard it here first, folks.

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ah yes, I read exactly these words

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Watched a few spider-man 2 web slinging to refresh my memory, and it isn't realistic, at all.

I get it if you prefer the speed boost when you web sling after a dive, but can someone explain to me how that is realistic?

 

[Seeya]

Right. That's wrong. You said it doesn't look "physics-based", but you just mean "doesn't look like Spider-Man 2". Using the term "physics-based" here shows a gross misunderstanding of what the term actually means.

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There are noticeable inconsistencies that give it a very canned look moment to moment. It's still probably the best we've had since Spider-Man 2, but....

Watched a few spider-man 2 web slinging to refresh my memory, and it isn't realistic, at all.

I get it if you prefer the speed boost when you web sling after a dive, but can someone explain to me how that is realistic?

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Physics.

 

[dancingphlower]

Like Smash, there's really no point in making a new Spider-Man game, since fans just want a 1:1 version of the old game.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Must be a tinge frustrating to see stuff like this. People incapable of judging things on its own merits especially before they even get hands on.

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Handling better than I ever could sm2 hold mad nostalgia no matter what they do it was never gonna compete

 

[Deleted member 887]

I'll take the glowing impressions and what I've seen as the swinging being good.

Sp2 swinging was great, but it can be bested

 

[Charamiwa]

Just look how he realistically slides against this wall. Hardcore swinging, yo.

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But that looks great. People that couldn't handle those slightly awkward moment is exactly why we got more scripted swinging after that.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

This game is designed to sell to tens of millions of people. Traversal has to feel smooth, because the competition feels smooth. This is not a Spider-Man Simulator, this is an action game. The point is to feel like a Spider-Man that is comfortable with his powers. You don't get that by thudding into a building every other swing.

More exact physics would be cool, but that's not what this game is going for. So I'd stop worrying about it and try to come to grips with the future. Spider-Man 2 isn't going anywhere if you need swinging like that.

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I wish more posts were like this instead of yelling at the OP.

Yea I guess it's not gonna play like Spider-Man 2 and is meant to be smoother, which is a shame to some, but a boon to others.

Why is everyone being so damn defensive? The gif in the OP clearly shows the difference between Spider-Man 2 and the new one. Spider-Man loses all momentum the moment he shoots out his web in the new one and it looks jarring. Not caring about the swinging being as good as Spider-Man 2 is fine but why shit on people who care about that stuff?

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Also yea, this is so weird how defensive people get when you point out a critique in something they're excited about

 

[lush]

spider man 2 has literally 2 good things about it (coincidence?), the web swinging and that warehouse enemy rush thing

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hey now

 

[Deleted member 17207]

Watched a few spider-man 2 web slinging to refresh my memory, and it isn't realistic, at all.

I get it if you prefer the speed boost when you web sling after a dive, but can someone explain to me how that is realistic?

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Is this a real question?

 

[NotLiquid]

Nobody complained who played it at E3. If anyone brought uo SM2 to me, it was to say that the swinging had finally eclipsed that game.

People are trying to make judgements off video comparisons of physics or camera movement. Those that have picked up the controller and understood how it /feels/ to play our game and combo the moves aren't walking away with any complaints

We are not trying to recreate SM2. We are doing our own thing, and if the hundreds of impressions from E3 are anything to go by, from fans to media to developers to executives from other publishers, we nailed the web-swinging

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Honestly, looking at most of the videos of the game I don't think I need to play it to understand that it probably feels fantastic overall. I trust my judgment on that and if I have to play it to understand it then that tells me I can't even trust my positive impressions of it.

It's literally only the downward momentum I'm noticing in that video that doesn't feel as snappy as it should be - unless you're suggesting that video doesn't depict it right. It's a small critique, not one that ruins the game for me - it looks better than Spider-Man 2 over all for sure, but it does suggest to me that it could be even better.