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deathsaber

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,100
Yeah, just don't do these overly pricey "service" games, particularly one like this with a license that must cost stupid money. Yes, they were the hotness at the beginning of last gen when Destiny launched (and activision did well with it), but we are now over it.

Single player games, please.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,045
Pennsylvania
It'd dead, Jim dot gif

I think it would probably have a better chance if there were movies releasing that they could cross-promote it with, but Disney is leaving them in the cold there. Pretty much everything they make now is potentially up to go on D+ at launch - except the Marvel stuff. They're intent on not eating shit on any of those releases, it seems.
I don't think so, video game sales are actually way up this year. The game just isn't what people wanted from a big high profile Avengers game.
 

J_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,747
The fact that gear/loot doesnt change your appearance tells me that they dont know what they are doing lol.

How do they not know how important cosmetics are for people while the rest of the industry has realized this?

It'd be awesome if the game gets a turn around but I think the issues this game has are too deep in it's foundation.
Unfortunately, it seems that was a Marvel decision!
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,712
Elysium
For the talks and jokes about FF7 Remake being Square Enix last resort if they ever be in troubling waters financially-wise, it underperformed badly. Huge frontloaded sales but weak long-standing sales/"legs". Thinking about, PS4 exclusivity was a short-sighted financial decision. Hopefully the Xbox Series/Steam port will give a breadth of new sales for them.

you can't be serious with this shite. This forum has some of the worst posts ever.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
I mean do you really think people needed another piece of media like a movie to remind them about the Avengers?

The game isnt what people wanted from a big Avengers game, no movie or show would have helped that.

Do I think it would've made a big change? Probably not.

Would the game have done better than it did? Absolutely, yeah.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,254
I can only blame the game's failure on its live service focus. Look at the sales performance of Spider-Man, a single Avenger. Maybe people just wanted a AAA single-player experience, hell even FF7 knocked it out of the park and it was only a portion of the full game.

you can't be serious with this shite. This forum has some of the worst posts ever.

What do you mean? AAA JRPGs have traditionally done gangbusters on Xbox and PC, these are just known facts!
 

The_R3medy

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,849
Wisconsin
I genuinely hope they don't come down hard on Crystal Dynamics over this. By all accounts, the story and characters in this game are quite good, which is what they're known for. This is there first swing at an online game, after all.

I hope they can dive into this game and make it even better going forward.

Part of me wonders if this game was effected by the pandemic with zero marvel properties coming out beside it. Even having Black Widow & Eternals this year could have bouyed their sales to the casual audience.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,409
The Stussining
Are seriously asking why they didn't made their game more expensive?
What's funny is DQ11s is coming to pc. You can pre order it on Steam right now.

If their question is also asking why can't people spend $20 on a dlc to upgrade the base version to the definitive version. Then I'd recommend they look up how DQ11s exists. Cause it was not a downport lol. They remade the game entirely for the Switch.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,239
They got what they deserved. They took two of the premier developers off franchises they were clearly passionate about, killed one of those franchises in the process and decided chasing GaaS was the better option.
 

Deleted member 34714

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 28, 2017
1,617
I hate that GAAS is the reason this game flopped for many here. CD made a very boring, most generic budget MCU clones in a AAA game when it could be more. The whole cinematic approach to gameplay (over exaggerated animations with massive camera shake) did no favors for this game for longevity.
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,624
Opportunity cost versus return on investment for Nier Replicant? It is not because you can release on Switch that you should. As far as Final Fantasy VII Remake goes, that is a timed exclusive, either due to the original deal on Final Fantasy VII or a new deal, so that isn't a loss.

I highly doubt a deal made during the PSX era would still be in effect in 2019. Especially when FF VII is available everywhere.

Also, about that "that isn't a loss" bit: we (sadly) don't know how much money Sony gave them for 7R.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,499
Didn't it sell over 5 million copies in 4.5 months? How did it "underperform badly"?
lmao, this shit again.
you can't be serious with this shite. This forum has some of the worst posts ever.
How is that sarcasm or shit? FF7 Remake came with huge expectations, huge word of mouth, huge hype around the world,etc,etc. And even was released in one of the strongest years for gaming thanks to Covid-19. Yet, it only sold around 5-6 million. Even the hugely criticized FF XV sold 5 million in one day. FF7R had huge frontloaded sales from the most hardcore fans of the franchise and those who where hooked by the marketing, but the title barely showed legs. How is one of the most(If not the most) requested remake of all-time, being the remake of the most influential and popular game in the franchise, launching on the best selling console in the market and on a year that gaming has thrived thanks to Covid-19 selling 5-6 million isn't an under-performance? If anything, i expected FF7R to expand the sales of the IP beyond the core gamers and be able to reach the more "casual" player, who heard of the franchise but don't has any history with the IP. PC and Xbox Series X/S ports are a must to get more sales and see the plateau of sales that the remake series can reach and adjust budget accordingly, as the subsequent episode aren't gonna reach "Episode 1" sales.
 

Deleted member 12352

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,203
They really messed up with Avengers. Betting the farm on live service shit was a huuuuge misstep.

Glad FFVII did well at least.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,204
Yeah, just don't do these overly pricey "service" games, particularly one like this with a license that must cost stupid money. Yes, they were the hotness at the beginning of last gen when Destiny launched (and activision did well with it), but we are now over it.

Single player games, please.

the gaas/service market is alive and well i think in Avengers' case that market doesn't particularly flock over to 3rd person hero action.

CD and SE didn't particularly make a case for the game. it was supposed to be "be your OWN hero... grind for that glorious MARVEL loot" but it just came off as Ms. Marvel: The Game with a cast of third rate MCU stand ins. i think people were confused what the thing even was
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,499
Regarding Avengers(As i did off-topic commentary on this thread). I really don't know how Square Enix management didn't saw this title failing sales-wise. Ever since Nirolak found that Crystal Dynamics was working with the Avengers IP on a game with huge focus on coop and being a GAAS, reaction have been mixed at best. The fact that single-player was an after-focus(And yet it's seemingly the better part of the game) just shows how mismanaged the Avengers IP was. Reaction after the E3 showing were bad, demo downloads and AU were very low for the size and name of the IP. It's sad, but was predictable. Hopefully they will be able to turnaround( It can't be more difficult than Anthem at least, which was another bomba and yet it's receiving a FF XIV 2.0 overhaul{Don't know why, as nobody will care}).
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,555
Yeah, just don't do these overly pricey "service" games, particularly one like this with a license that must cost stupid money. Yes, they were the hotness at the beginning of last gen when Destiny launched (and activision did well with it), but we are now over it.

Single player games, please.
I'd argue that'd be just a different misuse of the license. The Avengers are a team. The whole point is that it's a team. If you don't largely focus a game based around a team to be co-op, what are you doing?
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,802
I still can't believe how they botched this. This should have been one of the biggest games of the year by brand recognition alone.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,562
Ibis Island
I wonder how Square could turn-around their western side without just regulating them all to support.

I've said before but it seems like they treat their Western & Japan sides differently. Where the west is more pushed into going into the norm of what's expected from western dev, while japan seems more able to just kind of do whatever they want.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
It shouldn't have been a failure. With that brand and all the stuff you could've done? Unfortunate.

but that game seems to have had issues from the beginning. Doesn't really seem it knows what it wants to be. Plus it also had a bad marketing campaign, which is just surprising. The reveal was rather decently received, tho filled with lots of concerns. But everything after that reveal just went downhill when it came to talking about the game
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,204
I wonder how Square could turn-around their western side without just regulating them all to support.

I've said before but it seems like they treat their Western & Japan sides differently. Where the west is more pushed into going into the norm of what's expected from western dev, while japan seems more able to just kind of do whatever they want.

way i understand it is they're like modern sega, not so much of a "western side" but rather casting an umbrella over whatever studio wherever. erstwhile you're at home directly dealing with the 'legacy' side of things (FF, DQ et al)

i don't think SE really has much of a hand, all they can essentially do is hire and fire
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,501
How is that sarcasm or shit? FF7 Remake came with huge expectations, huge word of mouth, huge hype around the world,etc,etc. And even was released in one of the strongest years for gaming thanks to Covid-19. Yet, it only sold around 5-6 million. Even the hugely criticized FF XV sold 5 million in one day. FF7R had huge frontloaded sales from the most hardcore fans of the franchise and those who where hooked by the marketing, but the title barely showed legs. How is one of the most(If not the most) requested remake of all-time, being the remake of the most influential and popular game in the franchise, launching on the best selling console in the market and on a year that gaming has thrived thanks to Covid-19 selling 5-6 million isn't an under-performance? If anything, i expected FF7R to expand the sales of the IP beyond the core gamers and be able to reach the more "casual" player, who heard of the franchise but don't has any history with the IP. PC and Xbox Series X/S ports are a must to get more sales and see the plateau of sales that the remake series can reach and adjust budget accordingly, as the subsequent episode aren't gonna reach "Episode 1" sales.

I'm sorry but you can't just arbitrarily decide what is and isn't performing well based on your own personal feeling and opinions.

You expecting one thing doesn't mean Square Enix expected it, which is ultimately what matters. Just because some random person on the internet thought the game would sell more, it doesn't mean the game underperformed commercially.

That's not how this works. Stahp.
 

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,528
I can only blame the game's failure on its live service focus. Look at the sales performance of Spider-Man, a single Avenger. Maybe people just wanted a AAA single-player experience, hell even FF7 knocked it out of the park and it was only a portion of the full game.



What do you mean? AAA JRPGs have traditionally done gangbusters on Xbox and PC, these are just known facts!
Persona 4 steam , a port of a 12 year old game, sold half a million in 3 weeks.
 
It shipped that in 24 hours not sold .
Shipped and sold not the same .
Still it hard to compare FFXV and FFVIIR because of how things end up working out . ( covid , shipments , DD etc etc )
shipped to a publisher is a sell, thats what they get paid for and I dont think xv was one of those situations where the stores requested refunds for unsold copies.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,164
shipped to a publisher is a sell, thats what they get paid for and I dont think xv was one of those situations where the stores requested refunds for unsold copies.

It not a matter of unsold copies it a matter of price drops and other factors .
Like for FFVIIR they used ship and sold (because of DD )since being sold to consumers different than retail .
 

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,663
Atlanta, GA
If they somehow managed to salvage it would it be a bigger rescue job than ff 14?
Nowhere close. FFXIV was an absolute money pit failure. What Yoshi-P and his team did to bring that piece of crap to ARR levels is nothing short of a miracle.

They rebuilt the entire game from the ground up. They rebuilt the battle system, the menus, the UI, and the world, etc etc etc.

Avengers just needs more content and varied modes.
 

dep9000

Banned
Mar 31, 2020
5,401
Didn't the dlc get delayed for avengers? Does spiderman have a release date even? I bet they will shelve most of the additional characters. Maybe even spiderman since it didn't have a release date. I don't know if it's justified to spend development money which clearly won't be recouped with the awful sales. And I can't imagine many ppl picking the game up for any of these new characters
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
I hope Hiroshi Takai and the FF16 team can offset this loss, I have high hopes for them but Avengers is a pretty big loss to make on one game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,172
Didn't the dlc get delayed for avengers? Does spiderman have a release date even? I bet they will shelve most of the additional characters. Maybe even spiderman since it didn't have a release date. I don't know if it's justified to spend development money which clearly won't be recouped with the awful sales. And I can't imagine many ppl picking the game up for any of these new characters
They only said 2021, but they'd pretty much have to honor the spiderman one. It's even advertised on the PS4 packaging.
 

Deleted member 81119

User-requested account closure
Banned
Sep 19, 2020
8,308
How is that sarcasm or shit? FF7 Remake came with huge expectations, huge word of mouth, huge hype around the world,etc,etc. And even was released in one of the strongest years for gaming thanks to Covid-19. Yet, it only sold around 5-6 million. Even the hugely criticized FF XV sold 5 million in one day. FF7R had huge frontloaded sales from the most hardcore fans of the franchise and those who where hooked by the marketing, but the title barely showed legs. How is one of the most(If not the most) requested remake of all-time, being the remake of the most influential and popular game in the franchise, launching on the best selling console in the market and on a year that gaming has thrived thanks to Covid-19 selling 5-6 million isn't an under-performance? If anything, i expected FF7R to expand the sales of the IP beyond the core gamers and be able to reach the more "casual" player, who heard of the franchise but don't has any history with the IP. PC and Xbox Series X/S ports are a must to get more sales and see the plateau of sales that the remake series can reach and adjust budget accordingly, as the subsequent episode aren't gonna reach "Episode 1" sales.
You expected a 90s JRPG to expand FF beyond core gamers into casual gamers? Am I reading this right?
 

Roliq

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,207
You expected a 90s JRPG to expand FF beyond core gamers into casual gamers? Am I reading this right?
Ehh pretty sure FF7R was the big dream game that would sell 15 millions easily at least if you saw everyone post when talking about how much it would sell
 

Deleted member 511

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,676
Its so apparent to see which posters read financial reports and sales data and who posts based on their own feelings about a game.
Real talk lol.

Ehh pretty sure FF7R was the big dream game that would sell 15 millions easily at least if you saw everyone post when talking about how much it would sell

This would've never made sense if you actually followed the series' sales.

How is that sarcasm or shit? FF7 Remake came with huge expectations, huge word of mouth, huge hype around the world,etc,etc. And even was released in one of the strongest years for gaming thanks to Covid-19. Yet, it only sold around 5-6 million. Even the hugely criticized FF XV sold 5 million in one day. FF7R had huge frontloaded sales from the most hardcore fans of the franchise and those who where hooked by the marketing, but the title barely showed legs. How is one of the most(If not the most) requested remake of all-time, being the remake of the most influential and popular game in the franchise, launching on the best selling console in the market and on a year that gaming has thrived thanks to Covid-19 selling 5-6 million isn't an under-performance? If anything, i expected FF7R to expand the sales of the IP beyond the core gamers and be able to reach the more "casual" player, who heard of the franchise but don't has any history with the IP. PC and Xbox Series X/S ports are a must to get more sales and see the plateau of sales that the remake series can reach and adjust budget accordingly, as the subsequent episode aren't gonna reach "Episode 1" sales.
It's such a disappointment to SE that they decided to scale back on the rest of the games...oh wait, they're doing the exact opposite of that lol.

Imran said:

 

Deleted member 81119

User-requested account closure
Banned
Sep 19, 2020
8,308
Ehh pretty sure FF7R was the big dream game that would sell 15 millions easily at least if you saw everyone post when talking about how much it would sell
I mean I'd be surprised if the game didn't hit 10m in the end. 5m more copies for PC, Xbox and next gen PS5, and a boost every time a new part comes out is not unreasonable. Here we're talking about what it should have achieved on PS4 on launch, and apparently Square Enix should be disappointed with 5m. I bet they're crying themselves to sleep.
 

ultima786

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
How is that sarcasm or shit? FF7 Remake came with huge expectations, huge word of mouth, huge hype around the world,etc,etc. And even was released in one of the strongest years for gaming thanks to Covid-19. Yet, it only sold around 5-6 million. Even the hugely criticized FF XV sold 5 million in one day. FF7R had huge frontloaded sales from the most hardcore fans of the franchise and those who where hooked by the marketing, but the title barely showed legs. How is one of the most(If not the most) requested remake of all-time, being the remake of the most influential and popular game in the franchise, launching on the best selling console in the market and on a year that gaming has thrived thanks to Covid-19 selling 5-6 million isn't an under-performance? If anything, i expected FF7R to expand the sales of the IP beyond the core gamers and be able to reach the more "casual" player, who heard of the franchise but don't has any history with the IP. PC and Xbox Series X/S ports are a must to get more sales and see the plateau of sales that the remake series can reach and adjust budget accordingly, as the subsequent episode aren't gonna reach "Episode 1" sales.
Unfortunately you are mixing up FF15's shipped and actual sales. It shipped 5 million the first day, not sold. I would get sources for you to back up my claim but I can't at the moment. But it should be easy enough to find.

there is too much evidence to suggest that Remake actually killed it in sales, and even on ONE platform (PlayStation only). It apparently sold better than almost all other PlayStation exclusives and got close to God of War and Spider-Man levels.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,941
United Kingdom
Is Avengers a great financial bomba than Deus Ex MD was?

I wonder how many titles died as part of opportunity cost against Avongerz.

Considering Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montreal were all collectively working on it together (meaning Deus Ex and Tomb Raider were both pushed to one side) I'd say yeah it was a bigger failure, since just one team at Eidos Montreal worked on Mankind Divided in comparison (and last we heard MD did "okay" I think? Not like it cost Square-Enix roughly a $67 million expense, it was nowhere near as big a bomb as this seemed to be).
 

Wyze

Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,150
I dont think the GaaS focus killed it, it's just a bad game.

You'd think a coop game featuring the Avengers during a pandemic, which has people playing videogames more than ever, would actually do pretty damn good.

Also paying a lot for the license but not getting the actors? should've just went with a super stylized look for it then, instead of opting for photorealistic style of the game.
 
Last edited:

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Considering Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montreal were all collectively working on it together (meaning Deus Ex and Tomb Raider were both pushed to one side) I'd say yeah it was a bigger failure, since just one team at Eidos Montreal worked on Mankind Divided in comparison (and last we heard MD did "okay" I think? Not like it cost Square-Enix roughly a $67 million expense, it was nowhere near as big a bomb as this seemed to be).

Oh, I was not aware that Eidos Montreal were also involved. Thanks for the heads up.

CDPR's legitimate problematic behavriour aside, I wonder how C2077 (after all the patches are said and done) will affect if or when and how the Deus Ex title will be made. Insofar as 2077 is concerned, in terms of scope, it does feel like the spiritual successor OG Deus Ex (should the title pull off what it is promising).
 

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,912
Germany
So many baffling decisions around this game and because it is responsible for killing off Deus Ex they deserve it. Now Cyberpunk is probably going to be one of the biggest games of the year and that could have been you Square Enix.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
So many baffling decisions around this game and because it is responsible for killing off Deus Ex they deserve it. Now Cyberpunk is probably going to be one of the biggest games of the year and that could have been you Square Enix.

Lets not go there, Deus Ex was never going to be the Cyberpunk tier.

However, I think it could have done the same result as Avengers on the much lower budget AND without any of the drawbacks service game cost incurs. Deus Ex would have never sold more than a 3m copies within the launch period.

Deus Ex would, in a way, be a safe choice with a known-format game, predictable sales/audience and low post-launch monetization (season pass at best, but the MD season pass was definitely not worth the money)