It will certainly be easier to get someone new to the franchise to watch Trek 09. The problem is, where do you go from there? I think it would be pretty jarring to go from something like Trek 09 to TOS or TNG.
Star Trek Franchise |OT| To Boldly Go.....
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It will certainly be easier to get someone new to the franchise to watch Trek 09. The problem is, where do you go from there? I think it would be pretty jarring to go from something like Trek 09 to TOS or TNG.
Honestly, some of the more cringeworthy things in Into Darkness are half due to familiarity with the callouts. Not having the context might make them fly by unnoticed (not that the film is really all that great anyway).
I got my friend into Star Trek through Voyager lol, she's not a big fan of TOS but she's enjoyed the select episodes I had her watch, she watched Space Seed and than WOK, she hasn't watched DS9, ENT or Disco though but I gave her a list of the best TNG eps and she's enjoyed those. She hasn't seen any of the other movies except for the Kelvinverse movies and she liked all of those.
First Contact. Basically Die Hard In The Past But Also The Future In Space And Also On Earth With That Guy Out Of Babe.
It can be, a bit, yeah. Maybe it's just a testament to the kinds of people I introduce to Trek, but I've only very rarely seen them take issue though. Most of them have gone right in happily after Trek 09.
Haha, yeah. I can see that.
It's weird rewatching Voyager now Seven has been introduced knowing the behind the scenes issues with her and Mulgrew.
TOS also explained this in Return to Tomorrow. Sargon's race had colonized the galaxy.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Return_to_Tomorrow_(episode)
I never buy this tack. Good entertainment is timeless. No one save an idiot is going to say that Casablanca moves too slow.
There are definitely TOS episodes that could have used a b-plot, but that wouldn't have saved the episodes, really; they'd just be weak episodes with a subplot to distract you.
More to the point, if someone doesn't have enough attention span to sit down and pay attention for 50 minutes, it's a lost cause trying to show them any entertainment.
As for the thematic merits of the JJ films, funnily enough Into Darkness is the only one with much novel to say, it just completely loses the plot with its Khan and magic blood swerve. Misusing and forgetting about Marcus was just one more bad move in a movie full of bad moves.
As someone who's tried to get best friends, partners and family into Trek as well, I've got to agree with Cheebo. TOS and TNG are just not good ways to get modern audiences into Trek. Although, TOS is popular because of how kitsch or retro it is, but TNG is just plain boring to most people. I can't convince them otherwise sometimes.
I've managed to get them to watch TNG only after JJ Trek got them interested. TNG was modern in its time and attracted attention because it was the new Trek back in the 80s and pretty good SFX for that decade, and way different to TOS in those respects. That brought it new people, similar to what Discovery is trying to do this time around or the Abrams movies did. Of course, they have had mixed results, but overall, they managed to keep the franchise alive for a while longer.
And the franchise needs new people to survive. It can't just depend on nostalgia because literally its fanbase will die and that will be it.
The JJ movies are definitely a good gateway into Star Trek, and those movies get more hate than they rightfully deserve. The TNG era shows for the most part hold up pretty well but they aren't for everyone, and TOS these days is honestly a really rough jumping in point considering how dated that show feels.
Into Darkness is down near the bottom of the list for bad Trek films but I don't think it's even close to the bottom, to be honest. Nemesis, Insurrection, Final Frontier, and Search for Spock all exist. Generations isn't that great either, but that movie is kind of weird because it's like 60% a decent TNG episode, 30% really bad Trek movie, and 10% unnecessary tacked on TOS era stuff. Generations managed to have Kirk die in an underwhelming fashion twice.
I find Search for Spock and Final Frontier to be perfectly watchable. Not good movies by any stretch, but if they are on I usually leave them on. Nemesis and Insurrection are movies I will not leave on. Into Darkness is the only Trek movie that kinda makes me angry that it even exists, and I'm usually a chill person about such things. It's unwatchable. It's a stain on an up and down franchise. It's dumb but not in a fun way.
Also, Search for Spock isn't even a bad Trek movie in my eyes. It's just the middle part of that trilogy and has some great moments. Stealing the Enterprise still ranks extremely high in best Start Trek moment.
Search for Spock is...ok. It suffers for being just OK and being stuck between two moves that are fantastic.
I feel bad for her because she could have done a lot more. I really like these intimate scenes she has with Worf and her drive to get a promotion in rank in some of these episodes. It makes me wish they actually did things with her earlier in the season other than make her fall in love with someone, sense something, or crave chocolate cake. The uniform looks so much better than all those gaudy and tacky dresses she wore before lol.
Uniform Troi > fanservice Troi. She definitely seemed to grow a brain once the uniform went on, and even got a comedy scene in First Contact.
Remember when people used to say that there was an odd-numbered Star Trek curse, and that 1, 3, and 5 were the "bad movies". Man, we were so spoiled.
I guess they realized it was ridiculous even at the time because he changes into a better outfit on the way over to Genesis and he's the only one to do so.
And yeah, STV is bad in a lot of ways, but it at least has some kitsch value. (And I'll still hold the whole 'what does god want with a spaceship scene is great.')
I still find it completely ludicrous that the transwarp drive would have made it into a production Starship being completely inoperable, and I don't care that Scotty pulled some sprockets out of the thing, the project obviously went nowhere afterwards.
The only good use of Troi in her described role of counselor is actually the 'quoting the treaty episode' aka Ensigns Of Command (S3, episode 2), where she explains to Picard that in order to create a treaty, you must first create a common language. Which is a sudden 'where is this coming from', but it's a great scene as far as the show goes.
Which is really the only time where she actually has a job, in terms of 'why is this person here?'. There's even a joke about it in Deep Space Nine in its seventh season.
In fact, given ST's more general problem of writing women (both as writers on the shows, and as characters in them), it's worth noting that the most active women in them have been in Deep Space Nine, rather then Voyager where you would expect that. Kira in particular is a more involved and evolving character throughout the series than any character on Voyager or Enterprise (they tried with T'Pol though).
But yes, Ronny Cox essentially shouting "somebody get that woman into a uniform!" was all for the better with the Troi character. Like, woo boy, when they had no time to write a decent episode, you get "Another Creepy Troi Gets Nearly Raped Episode!! Yeeeaaah....". ... yeah. :|
Which is really the only time where she actually has a job, in terms of 'why is this person here?'. There's even a joke about it in Deep Space Nine in its seventh season.
In fact, given ST's more general problem of writing women (both as writers on the shows, and as characters in them), it's worth noting that the most active women in them have been in Deep Space Nine, rather then Voyager where you would expect that. Kira in particular is a more involved and evolving character throughout the series than any character on Voyager or Enterprise (they tried with T'Pol though).
But yes, Ronny Cox essentially shouting "somebody get that woman into a uniform!" was all for the better with the Troi character. Like, woo boy, when they had no time to write a decent episode, you get "Another Creepy Troi Gets Nearly Raped Episode!! Yeeeaaah....". ... yeah. :|
They don't, I saw that with a friend who pretty much never watched Trek and just knew Kirk, Spock etc through pop culture. The bits that made me cringe as a fan she just thought were odd or seemed to know she was missing something. Like the reveal he is Khan there was this big silence after and she said "I guess I'm supposed to give a shit?"
It's one of those funny things the franchise just never properly addresses again in any of the major works, leaving fan headcanon and extended universe authors to think up some 'Yeah uh, the experiment didn't pan out anyway' excuse. I suspect part of it is that just what 'transwarp' was even meant to be beyond simply 'faster than normal warp' was likely not a consideration when Search for Spock was made - they just needed something to make the Excelsior seem even more special (and thus, deserving of a humbling) in comparison to Enterprise.
God I love the Stealing of the Enterprise though. It's a brilliant set piece that demonstrates (most of) the cast and their dynamic beautifully, is that rare 'action' scene with little actual action, and just plays out excellently. That said, I do have an immense soft spot for Search for Spock, in part I feel because of just how much it does to substantiate the Federation and the optimism that this franchise is so often credited with. The approach to Spacedock alone makes clear both the capabilities of the Federation, but also how 'safe' the cast is in returning home; it's not the furthest reaches of the frontier. It gives a sense of infrastructure that wasn't always readily apparent.
Man, Stealing the Enterprise is like the best 10 minutes of any Star Trek. That puts SFS in the top tier alone.
I don't think it's that strange to have the latest design of a ship feature a prototype technology that's apparently somewhat controversial (Scotty, at minimum, seems to have a huge problem with it) when it clearly has it's advantages and supporters. The technology must have at least worked out on paper, and proven itself in some testing, but for a full-scale test it might need some accommodations that only a brand new ship design could deliver.
And it's not clear what the "transwarp" in the Excelsior was exactly. All "transwarp" means, technically speaking, is "beyond warp". And when they said "all speeds available through transwarp", I kind of took that to mean an acceleration factor, not infinity speed like in that Voyager episode with the lizards, or the Borg's space-tunnels. If the Enterprise took off at warp, it might take a few moments to reach warp nine, and then have difficulty maintaining that maximum speed. The Excelsior might hit warp nine effortlessly, in an instant, and then maintain that speed indefinitely. That would be considered "beyond" what TOS-era warp drives were thought to be capable of, and would allow Excelsior to break Enterprise's speed records, and would provide a rude awakening for anyone trying to run off with the Enterprise.
And apparently Scotty's sabotage of the Excelsior provided a huge setback for the technology. It's apparently overcomplicated, easily broken, and completely non-fuctional when things aren't going exactly as planned (although that could have something to do with the fact that it was a prototype). That's the sort of technology that looks good on paper and you could see a good number of people being convinced by it, but it wouldn't fly with a veteran like Scotty who knows how durable and resilient an engine needs to be when it gets treated roughly out there in the real world.
The Excelsior was apparently retrofitted, and a standard warp drive was installed for Captain Sulu. Just the fact that this is possible means that both engine types were taken into consideration when designing the Excelsior, and the failure of this new technology wasn't something that blindsided them. But that didn't stop them from making some room for it in the newest ship design, and giving it every chance to succeed.
But for all we know, the definition of "transwarp" might have changed over the years, and Picard's Enterprise might incorporate a refined version of Excelsior's technology. Remember, Scotty eventually said that he didn't particularly like Picard's Enterprise. He said that in his day he could tell you what speed you were going from the feel of the vibrations in the deck plates, but Picard's Enterprise doesn't do that anymore. Scotty would have to go back to school to re-learn how Picard's engines even work.
I just put on Star Trek (09) which will then be my very first array into the franchise. What an intense intro, and I feel so bad for the woman who just gave birth and then at the same time loses her loved one. What mixed feelings she must be going through.
I'm up to the title screen, and I'm wondering why this little kid is driving around in a car that fast. But then I see a police hover bike chasing it and that's like the coolest shit. I had no idea Star Trek had futuristic things like that on Earth.
Anyway, I'm off my phone. I wanna watch the film with no interruptions.
I'm up to the title screen, and I'm wondering why this little kid is driving around in a car that fast. But then I see a police hover bike chasing it and that's like the coolest shit. I had no idea Star Trek had futuristic things like that on Earth.
Anyway, I'm off my phone. I wanna watch the film with no interruptions.
We already know that TOS and TNG warp factors are different. I never took transwarp to mean anything but "faster than traditional warp", and hence the Excelsior experiment never actually failed; it just became the basis for the next generation of warp starships.
I still just think putting a prototype engine on a full-up Starship sized vessel is a ludicrous idea, maybe something the size of the Defiant or the NX-01. It's really here nor there though, as the movie predates them needing to reassess warp speed terminology for TNG anyway.
I think they showed her doing her job as a Counselor quite a few times, it was just never really justified why she had a bridge position in that capacity, since it seemed the only thing that made her remotely valuable on the bridge was being an empath rather than being ship's counselor. The whole thing about her being counselor really just stemmed from Roddenberry's conception of the show and changing it so that families were on the ship.
I think they showed her doing her job as a Counselor quite a few times, it was just never really justified why she had a bridge position in that capacity, since it seemed the only thing that made her remotely valuable on the bridge was being an empath rather than being ship's counselor. The whole thing about her being counselor really just stemmed from Roddenberry's conception of the show and changing it so that families were on the ship.
All this time I've thought that Star Trek was set exclusively on a space ship in out space but I've been surprised.
I've already been to other planets like Earth and Vulcan, I've seen robot police officers, black holes sucking entire planets, I've had a sword fight, seen teleportation, some cool parachute suits and they are talking about creatures coming from the future and alternate dimensions.
Hell, I'm at the point were Kirk has been sent to Earth in a pod, and he has just met an old Spock seemingly from the future, and I'm like "holy shit, what?" Now it's getting a little more interesting, especially if Star Trek plays with time and space, cause I love stuff like that.
I'm also surprised to see so many familiar faces. I've already recognized Chris Hemsworth (who I hope to see more of, since he's my favorite Avenger), Zoe Saldana (who I also really like and this time she's not in make up), Karl Urban (I only discovered him by looking up the cast list), John Cho and Winona Ryder who I absolutely adored on Stranger Things S1.
I can't say the plot or the villains have been that interesting unfortunately, and it's mostly the beautiful vistas and when they get to do some action that keeps me watching. There's a lot of techno-baffle were I almost tune out. I'm not even sure I picked up on the villain's motivation when he talked to Captain Spike, I may have to rewind for that part.
Anyway, this being the first time I've been exposed to anything Star Trek, it has certainly surprised me in a few ways.
I've already been to other planets like Earth and Vulcan, I've seen robot police officers, black holes sucking entire planets, I've had a sword fight, seen teleportation, some cool parachute suits and they are talking about creatures coming from the future and alternate dimensions.
Hell, I'm at the point were Kirk has been sent to Earth in a pod, and he has just met an old Spock seemingly from the future, and I'm like "holy shit, what?" Now it's getting a little more interesting, especially if Star Trek plays with time and space, cause I love stuff like that.
I'm also surprised to see so many familiar faces. I've already recognized Chris Hemsworth (who I hope to see more of, since he's my favorite Avenger), Zoe Saldana (who I also really like and this time she's not in make up), Karl Urban (I only discovered him by looking up the cast list), John Cho and Winona Ryder who I absolutely adored on Stranger Things S1.
I can't say the plot or the villains have been that interesting unfortunately, and it's mostly the beautiful vistas and when they get to do some action that keeps me watching. There's a lot of techno-baffle were I almost tune out. I'm not even sure I picked up on the villain's motivation when he talked to Captain Spike, I may have to rewind for that part.
Anyway, this being the first time I've been exposed to anything Star Trek, it has certainly surprised me in a few ways.
The problem I see is that, even given the bolded, it doesn't make sense to me that a ship with an experimental and completely untested drive system would be moored in Spacedock, orbiting Earth. Spacedock wasn't a construction yard, accidents happen, and a critical antimatter drive failure has the potential to destroy it and all the ships contained within. That risk would seem to be exponentially increased if the drive system's behaviour was poorly understood (and it would have to be very poorly understood if it didn't work at all). The Excelsior's presence in Spacedock rather than a dedicated drydock away from regular traffic would suggest to me that it and its drive had at least undergone functional testing and certification, and it was being fully crewed and prepared for a shakedown cruise and performance testing. The drive may not have broken any records yet as breaking Enterprise's speed record would have involved travelling in excess of Warp 14 by the TOS scale (or Warp 22 if TAS is included), well beyond the speeds typically used, and perhaps beyond initial testing.
That's one of the reasons that the widely accepted assumption that the Excelsior's drive was a failure has always kinda bugged me. AFAIK there's no canonical material to support that the drive failed outside of Scotty's sabotage, or support that it was later replaced by a standard warp drive (there's non-canon material). As you said, all transwarp means is "beyond warp", so my head canon has always been that the Excelsior's drive system was repaired, successfully tested, and similar drive types were retrofitted into older ship models. That led to a recalibration of the warp scale, and is why the 1701-A seems to be sporting a warp core very much like the one in the D. Transwarp became warp, anything faster became the new transwarp, and it was never mentioned again in the movies because it was never necessary for the plot.
Non-canon, but I always liked the "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" explanation that one manufacturer produced a transwarp drive system that was fitted into larger nacelles, while another produced a system that fitted into existing nacelle designs, and it was that design that was fitted on the Ent-A. Hey, and if the system was ludicrously fast it would explain how the Ent-A got to the centre of the galaxy in about 25 minutes in TFF. Perhaps there were problems later and the new systems were removed before TNG :)
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Nope. Just fandom making stuff into either the greatest thing ever or the worst abomination because hyperbole is currency the internet (and usenet before it) runs on.
While I like JJ-trek a lot, those movies are sort of a different animal when it comes to style.
The TV series tend to be much more... Thoughtful. Bringing various political and social issues into the plot. Most episodes go by without The ship firing any weapons.
There's action packed episodes too, and the movie versions tend towards action too, but I would say not to the level of JJ-trek.
But there's plenty of time travel, alternate dimensions, black holes, spacial vortexes, crazy technology, and whatnot throughout all incarnations
I know this gets said a lot but as I've just reached Year of Hell in my Voyager rewatch I feel like saying it again. This is what Voyager should have been all along. Even if it was just a season long arc it would have really mixed things up.
I think it was the disregard for continuity and selfcongratulation that bugged people the most.
I mean weren't there reports that the director kept asking LeVar Burton to act more alien. He had no idea of any source material for it
Yeah if I remember right Frakes and Sirtis did one of the audio commentaries for Nemesis and spent most of it laying into the director.
Definitely. It's a real shame the show didn't go down that road.