No, I meant the time travel aspect.They are continuing to use the Kelvin crew because Kirk and co are the most popular Star Trek characters, by far. And Chris Pine has never been bigger.
No, I meant the time travel aspect.They are continuing to use the Kelvin crew because Kirk and co are the most popular Star Trek characters, by far. And Chris Pine has never been bigger.
When CBS relaunched StarTrek.com, they needed to call it something in the database, so called it the Kelvin timeline because it's the timeline where the Kelvin blew up. That's it really. Paramount and JJ didn't have any involvement in the naming.So I've wondered why it's called the Kelvin timeline rather than the Narada timeline (or something else). The USS Kelvin wasn't unique to either at that time, after all, and the Narada was the cause of the deviation.
I think you kind of explained it yourself.So I'm a quarter way through S4 of my first foray into Voyager and I have no idea why people hate it. It's comfort food Trek with likable characters.. hell, I'm even liking Neelix now. I might even like the supporting crew more than TNG.
I think the universe has been too hard on Janeway and crew.
Well, for what it's worth, I am a hardcore Star Trek fan (the TNG-DS9 era is my favorite) and I enjoyed the new movies for what they were: fun sci-fi action space opera. I have no issues with Star Trek being different and, contrary to popular belief, most of Star Trek's fandom is pretty open to new things. TNG was different from TOS, DS9 was different from TNG. I think that Star Trek fans are mainly looking for two things in order to accept and embrace a piece of Star Trek content: compelling characters and interesting storylines with at least a bit of depth. It's this second part that most of the newer Trek content lacks in my opinion.
We've had three movies in the Kelvin timeline and all three of them were about some guy wanting revenge. While the first movie had a decent arc for Kirk and crew, the second movie was basically wheel spinning and the third movie, while it started off with the best premise (the crew being deep into their five-year mission and exploring), quickly devolved into the same revenge storyline and the crew doing action things for two hours.
The first half of Discovery was actually very promising and I liked it. The mysterious past of Lorca, the character of Stamets, the exploration of Klingon internal politics, the ethical issue of using the tardigrade as a piece of machinery in order to win the war, those were cool stuff. As soon as the show jumped to the mirror universe and focused on that I lost all interest and stopped watching.
Yeah I'm not really a fan of the Klingon redesign at all.I think I enjoyed the second half of Discovery's first season more than the beginning. To be honest I've still yet to get over the redesigns of the Klingons and their ships/weapons etc. I just hate it all. Movies onwards the Klingon designs and imo had real depth behind everything. The ones in Discovery feel so bland and generic, half the time not being able to tell what I'm looking at.
To be fair, the Klingon redesign is basically "they lack hair". People have photoshopped TNG-ENT style hair onto the Klingons from Discovery and they essentially look like the Klingons from those erasI think I enjoyed the second half of Discovery's first season more than the beginning. To be honest I've still yet to get over the redesigns of the Klingons and their ships/weapons etc. I just hate it all. Movies onwards the Klingon designs and imo had real depth behind everything. The ones in Discovery feel so bland and generic, half the time not being able to tell what I'm looking at.
Yeah I'm not really a fan of the Klingon redesign at all.
I'd say that the Movie/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT Klingon design was somewhat iconic of the Star Trek franchise. Even a non Star Trek fan would be able to go "Oh that's a Klingon" if they saw a picture of one.
Carrying on with my Voyager rewatch and I'd forgotten how good of a two parter Scorpion was. The show may have neutered the Borg too much by the end but that first proper meeting with them was great.
I've recently been rewatching DS9 after only catching the odd episode here and there growing up and Im enjoying it a lot. Currently on season 6
The weirdest thing about the run up to Discovery is the show runners wanting to flesh out the Klingons as they previously felt underdeveloped. There is an argument to be made that there is a severe lack of non-military careers (but that's an issue with the format of trek), but if anything the Klingons were regressed in Discovery. Some people used to ask how a warrior culture could become space faring, but Discovery made it worse by leaning into house divisions. consumption of sentiant meat and all kinds of "monstrous" stuff.I still tear up at the end of the DS9 episode "Once More Unto the Breach" when the Klingons start singing in tribute to Kor. In my opinion, between TNG and DS9 the Klingons were really well explored and fleshed out moreso than even Vulcans. Still bittersweet that that episode (and the song ending it) is the last time we saw TNG-era Klingons.
Thing is the history of the Klingons was already fleshed out well enough. Hell, outside of humans they probably had the most backstory of any race in Star Trek. The severe lack of non-military careers is simply a part of their race. We did see Klingon scientists, but it was generally part of Klingon culture to not put those people front and center.The weirdest thing about the run up to Discovery is the show runners wanting to flesh out the Klingons as they previously felt underdeveloped. There is an argument to be made that there is a severe lack of non-military careers (but that's an issue with the format of trek), but if anything the Klingons were regressed in Discovery. Some people used to ask how a warrior culture could become space faring, but Discovery made it worse by leaning into house divisions. consumption of sentiant meat and all kinds of "monstrous" stuff.
Well probably see some of those Klingons but the whole race wasn't genetically modified.Just as bad is that Enterprise quite neatly resolved the whole without ridges in TOS then with ridges in movies onward issue. Discovery has basically undone that and re-opened a can of worms that had very neatly been closed and sealed.
JJ Abrams-Trek already messed with the Klingon design before Discovery messed with it some more.Thing is the history of the Klingons was already fleshed out well enough. Hell, outside of humans they probably had the most backstory of any race in Star Trek. The severe lack of non-military careers is simply a part of their race. We did see Klingon scientists, but it was generally part of Klingon culture to not put those people front and center.
Just as bad is that Enterprise quite neatly resolved the whole without ridges in TOS then with ridges in movies onward issue. Discovery has basically undone that and re-opened a can of worms that had very neatly been closed and sealed.
TNG does actually explain why so many of the races in the galaxy are humanoid though. It's because the original humanoid race of the galaxy seeded multiple worlds to ensure evolution of intelligent life on them followed the same basic humanoid template.
Don't the Changelings mention that they were once a race of Solids that later evolved into Changelings?I think its a shame they never linked that back to the Changlings from DS9 given that it was the same actress and extremely similar makeup to the female Changling. Could have been interesting to explore the fact that they'd maybe forgotten that they created all the solids that they ended up hating.
Those shapeshifters were not part of the dominion- how could you tell which ones were good except for the liquidy badnessDon't the Changelings mention that they were once a race of Solids that later evolved into Changelings?
What always bugged me about DS9 though and the whole "Mistrust of shapeshifters" angle is that the Federation have had relationships with other shapeshifting species for at least a century by that point and had no problem. All they had to do to prove to the Founders that the Federation was different was just go "What do you mean mistrust of shapeshifters? We've known shapeshifters for ages now and don't hate them"
True. but the main argument the Founders had was "All Solids mistrust all shapeshifters" which the Federation could demonstrate wasn't true in their case.Those shapeshifters were not part of the dominion- how could you tell which ones were good except for the liquidy badness
True. but the main argument the Founders had was "All Solids mistrust all shapeshifters" which the Federation could demonstrate wasn't true in their case.
Though I guess in the end the Founders just wanted to rule anyone and everyone.
I do wish they'd gotten to interact with some of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant shapeshifting races though. Would they still be considered 'Solids' because they couldn't assume a liquid/gaseous state like the Changelings could? Would they be seen as kindred spirits of a sort that could've bridged the gap between the Dominion and the Federation?
Isn't there a shape shifting race in TNG as well?We don't see that many shapeshifters in the Alpha Quadrant. In STVI Marta is believed mythical until Kirk sees her change form in front of her.
Yeah Wesley fell in love with a shapeshifter, but their whole race is insular and not a Federation planet or protectorate. Shapeshifters are quite uncommon in the Alpha Quadrant, and frankly the Dominion doesn't want to hear that they're wrong, so nothing will work on them.
I mean we've seen episodes of Star Trek build an entire episode's worth of plot around a setup like that. Yet here it's just all "Ambassador is dead and these guys are trying to eat his corpse, lol"Yeah, it was awful, and that ending stood out.
It's shit Star Trek as well as Riker specifically says he knows Picard's possessed but won't do anything because of regulations, which is the antithesis of Trek.
So Talaxian's reproduce through some kind of Facehugger style process?
I mean we've seen episodes of Star Trek build an entire episode's worth of plot around a setup like that. Yet here it's just all "Ambassador is dead and these guys are trying to eat his corpse, lol"
I mean, throw it on the pile with the rest of crappy S1 TNG . . . still using modified Phase-II scripts . . . yada yada. I think the most important thing that happened to TNG post S1 was the production team allowing some continuity to happen even though it was still a fairly one-off episodes show. It was definitely more than TOS did with the universe unless you count the TOS film "trilogy". I also think it was genius to have the first definite continuation of a storyline between consecutive episodes (so far as I recall) be "Family" after "BOBW2". Complete tonal shift but totally appropriate.
Voyager actually does have a lot of good episodes. It's a shame that the writers squandered the potential of the initial premise.
I'll fight anyone who says Macrocosm, Scientific Method, Living Witness, Hope and Fear, Critical Care, Shattered and The Void aren't fantastic Voyager one off episodes.Most of them being the two-parters. And Timeless. Oh, and Blink of an Eye.
But then "Conspiracy" was a great episode. Quite probably the best episode in Season 1. Hell, 3rd best behind Q-Who and Measure of a Man from the entirety of Seasons 1 and 2.
The shot of Remmick's head fucking exploding and then his open, hollowed out torso.
Season 1 really was a rollercoaster at times.