Star Trek: Picard - Season 1 |OT| Re-ENGAGE!

Oct 25, 2017
5,843
The Ocean



I thought it was cool as a result of the coolness of it.


That's not what happened though. If you'd just commented "Meh I thought the Borg cube part was just good CG, I can take it or leave it", none of those posts would have happened.

Instead, you asked me to justify why I thought it was cool (for the record, it was because it was fucking cool), and then someone gave you a considered reply, and your behaviour somehow escalated to crying about Star Wars fans, belittling people who think special effects can be cool on a moment-to-moment basis, saying that this topic was just circle-jerking, and somehow then wondering why other people didn't want to continue discussing my one liner with you.

I don't want to definitively speak for them but I bet it's something to do with that attitude.


There's criticism of the show right in the post that you quoted. The vast majority of my post that you quoted is critical discussion of the show. The vast majority of the other posts I've made about this episode have been criticism, generally leaning towards negative. Do you think there's a requirement that everything that people post about the show has to be negative?
I clicked the ignore button. Don’t waste your mental health cycles.
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
Haha yeah that's the discussion I expected. Jesus christ. Can't handle any criticism. Can't have a normal conversation. Can't explain anything.

Just



All I asked was, why did you think that was cool. Holy shit talk about overreacting.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,885
I didnt ask you to justify anything. I asked why you thought it was cool.

And still, you cannot say why you thought it was cool. You just thought it was cool.

Fine, whatever.

And yes if it all boils down to " ooh CG is looking good " then yes I am dissapointed. CG to me doesnt make Star Trek. It's not even important to it.

You know what I'd find cool? If they could explain what exactly the "artifact" was, what was Romulans goals on the Cube? Why was Soji there?

Something. Maybe that will come next thursday.
Breh, no one has to explain why they think something is cool. Like, if you can't understand why the sequence is cool visually then no one can help you.
 
Feb 5, 2020
402
User Banned (3 days): Hostility and antagonizing multiple members over a series of posts
Breh, no one has to explain why they think something is cool. Like, if you can't understand why the sequence is cool visually then no one can help you.
No one has to explain anything, so why are we even posting here?
I was just asking an honest question, what did you think was cool about it? Initially he didnt mention visuals, so it could be anything he found cool?!

That's already too much to ask? What? The f is wrong with yall.
 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
Breh, no one has to explain why they think something is cool. Like, if you can't understand why the sequence is cool visually then no one can help you.
Before this series and Discovery, the cool CG was not really something anyone watched Star Trek for. Even in the Dominion Arc when you actually have fleets engaging one another, that only actually occurred in a handful of episodes over the span of several seasons. Dominion War was not just all shoot shoot bang bang.

Seeing the Borg cube come out and making it seem like it is one of the coolest aspect of Trek feels just so wrong.

Let me compare to another scene in Star Trek. The Enterprise D crash landing in Generations. That scene has more weight that this Borg cube that we don't really care about crashing on a planet we don't really care about. At least with Generations we had some history with the ship.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,885
No one has to explain anything, so why are we even posting here?
I was just asking an honest question, what did you think was cool about it? Initially he didnt mention visuals, so it could be anything he found cool?!

That's already too much to ask? What? The f is wrong with yall.
Discussing the episode is one thing, bickering over whether something cool is not discussion since "coolness" is purely subjective. I think ships coming out of warp is one of the coolest things, others disagree, neither is wrong. On the other hand, we can discuss whether the past episode is hot trash (it was) as it can be judged beyond pure subjectivity such as writing quality and direction.

Before this series and Discovery, the cool CG was not really something anyone watched Star Trek for. Even in the Dominion Arc when you actually have fleets engaging one another, that only actually occurred in a handful of episodes over the span of several seasons. Dominion War was not just all shoot shoot bang bang.

Seeing the Borg cube come out and making it seem like it is one of the coolest aspect of Trek feels just so wrong.

Let me compare to another scene in Star Trek. The Enterprise D crash landing in Generations. That scene has more weight that this Borg cube that we don't really care about crashing on a planet we don't really care about. At least with Generations we had some history with the ship.
The shit was fucking cool. Stop trying to dig deeper. Big ass ships coming out of warp is fucking cool. Accept this.
 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
The shit was fucking cool. Stop trying to dig deeper. Big ass ships coming out of warp is fucking cool. Accept this.
Calling something like that cool must mean that you think every single space shot is cool. Ships coming out of warp is something that happens all the time. If showing a single Borg cube leaving a transwarp conduit is the cool thing then I just feel those standards are just so low.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,885
Calling something like that cool must mean that you think every single space shot is cool. Ships coming out of warp is something that happens all the time. If showing a single Borg cube leaving a transwarp conduit is the cool thing then I just feel those standards are just so low.
Yeah, why would anyone think this stuff was cool? Bunch of low standard buffoons.






 
Oct 25, 2017
4,651
Who knew my gif would cause so many people to flip out, some people just really want to hate on everything in this show and for the life of me I can't understand why some of y'all are still watching but hey that money goes towards more seasons of Star Trek so thanks for wasting your time and money.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,163
I'm enjoying the effects/spectacle aspects of Picard even though it's not doing a lot for me otherwise.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,885
Who knew my gif would cause so many people to flip out, some people just really want to hate on everything in this show and for the life of me I can't understand why some of y'all are still watching but hey that money goes towards more seasons of Star Trek so thanks for wasting your time and money.
Like, I think the show has been pretty trash so far but I'm not gonna sit here and deny some of the cool visuals. That's just bitch eating crackers level of hating.
 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
Who knew my gif would cause so many people to flip out, some people just really want to hate on everything in this show and for the life of me I can't understand why some of y'all are still watching but hey that money goes towards more seasons of Star Trek so thanks for wasting your time and money.
This is a discussion forum. People claiming that a ship coming out of warp is one of the coolest moments in Trek is something that is outlandish and is perfectly fine to call out. Are OTs supposed to only be all hugs and kisses? Though I think it speaks to the quality of the show if "show Borg cube" is seen as one of the biggest positives of the episode.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
England
Calling something like that cool must mean that you think every single space shot is cool. Ships coming out of warp is something that happens all the time. If showing a single Borg cube leaving a transwarp conduit is the cool thing then I just feel those standards are just so low.
Really? We get a pretty fancy shot of a massive Borg cube coming out of a portal in space and your initial reaction is “wow standards are so low if people think this is cool”? You must have really hated that shot in Star Trek Into Darkness when the evil Enterprise caught up to the good one mid-warp.
 

Combo

Member
Jan 8, 2019
473
The last time I was a serious poster on TBBS was probably 10 years ago or so (I assume T'Bonz is still the admin but I have no idea lol), but TBBS is, or at least was, the biggest gathering place for Trek fans so I'm not really surprised. I think I was in the minority when it came to disliking Enterprise at the time.

(Funny enough, everyone there seems to hate Alec Peters so there's that :p)
But it's the more casual fans that like Picard? I have seen the more hard core fans disliking it. Am I wrong?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,651
This is a discussion forum. People claiming that a ship coming out of warp is one of the coolest moments in Trek is something that is outlandish and is perfectly fine to call out. Are OTs supposed to only be all hugs and kisses? Though I think it speaks to the quality of the show if "show Borg cube" is seen as one of the biggest positives of the episode.
I mean people can enjoy whatever part of the show they like? I didn't know we had rules and telling people they are wrong for enjoying something isn't a discussion.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,408
This is a discussion forum. People claiming that a ship coming out of warp is one of the coolest moments in Trek is something that is outlandish and is perfectly fine to call out.
I....don't know how to respond to this. I'm being "called out" for saying something was cool?

Do you want me to write an essay on why?

Or maybe I should respond by thrashing your preferences. That'd really get us places.

This is some excellent discussion about what's cool and what isn't, let's keep it up, it's so interesting and not at all strangely vindictive pointlessness.
 

DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,071
Canada
I also thought the cube exiting/crashing was cool.

The VFX (on a TV show no less) being at a point to be able to effectively portray a story moment like that without having to cut away to people 'watching it happen off screen', resulting in a sequence which also has a "holy shit" factor is impressive.

It was a cool moment, a borg cube breaking the atmosphere during that moment was something we hadn't seen in trek, and was almost reminiscent of the BSG "Adama Maneuver", which, guess what, was also fucking cool.

If you want to take the VFX acumen of this show for granted, that's cool, too, totally your right, but the fact that the writers/creators of Picard can actually show moments like that on a modern day TV show is impressive and, somewhat unexpected.

Is that enough of an explanation for you as to why I thought 6 seconds of footage was "cool"?
 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
I mean people can enjoy whatever part of the show they like? I didn't know we had rules and telling people they are wrong for enjoying something isn't a discussion.
They can. And when one person says that a Borg cube shot is one of the coolest scenes in the literally 1000s of hours of Trek, someone can think that is unfathomable. Just like you are free to call people out for hating on things.
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,977
While that guy on the last page was certainly being a bit of a prick about it, I must say I agree overall, I don't see what's remotely "coolest moments of trek ever" about a superficial scene of a cube coming out of warp. A shiny dangling object doesn't distract from the mess that surrounds it, like how only a few moments before this amazing moment we have Agnes awkwardly scoot up and be like "Oh..uhhhhh....like hey guys am I still grounded for murdering Maddox?" "Nah, plans changed, we're totally cool now"

To compare it to the Adama maneuver is just absurd, that moment had an entire season of setup, countless hours of character arcs all converging and leading to this truly epic moment where our characters are suddenly thrust back on their feet again after an entire season of being knocked down. The Adama maneuver had true importance and consequence to the characters, to the story, and to the rest of the show, in addition to being cool as fuck.

Comparatively, the borg exiting warp was treated as a frivolous extravagant punchline to Rios's "Well, that's unexpected" line, a dash of fanservice spectacle that has no meaning or value beyond just that, kinda like the old romulan warbird in the previous episode, these moments feel completely isolated from the actual show and don't really add anything to the show other than sound and color.
 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
While that guy on the last page was certainly being a bit of a prick about it, I must say I agree overall, I don't see what's remotely "coolest moments of trek ever" about a superficial scene of a cube coming out of warp. A shiny dangling object doesn't distract from the mess that surrounds it, like how only a few moments before this amazing moment we have Agnes awkwardly scoot up and be like "Oh..uhhhhh....like hey guys am I still grounded for murdering Maddox?" "Nah, plans changed, we're totally cool now"

To compare it to the Adama maneuver is just absurd, that moment had an entire season of setup, countless hours of character arcs all converging and leading to this truly epic moment where our characters are suddenly thrust back on their feet again after an entire season of being knocked down. The Adama maneuver had true importance and consequence to the characters, to the story, and to the rest of the show, in addition to being cool as fuck.

Comparatively, the borg exiting warp was treated as a frivolous extravagant punchline to Rios's "Well, that's unexpected" line, a dash of fanservice spectacle that has no meaning or value beyond just that, kinda like the old romulan warbird in the previous episode, these moments feel completely isolated from the actual show and don't really add anything to the show other than sound and color.
Right. Just because the Adama Maneuver and Borg Cube Entering Atmosphere both have big ships entering atmosphere but that is where the similarities end.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,651
You're kinda underselling the Borg coming out of warp a bit too though, it's coming to the rescue, a Borg cube coming to rescue Picard.
 

StudioTan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,299
I watched episodes 8 and 9 last night and I was really enjoying them until the heel turn by the synths at the end of 9. It kind of came out of nowhere and it didn't feel earned at all. Like all of a sudden they're casually talking about "well I guess we could run away, or we could kill everyone in the galaxy so it's a toss-up. I guess we'll just commit genocide, it's easier". Like it didn't even sink in at first that that's what they were talking about because it seems like such a huge deal and it was almost skimmed over. Which leads me to the point that overall I think my main problem with this show has been the editing, some stuff just seems to come out of nowhere. I'm still watching it but it could be SO much better.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,823
our survival as in the extinction of all organic life in our universe? Yeah sure that makes sense to root for.

Goddamn this show is fucking stupid af
maybe that’s just their interpretation and the ‘higher’ beings will tell them to stop being stupid.

If it is the higher being message then why haven’t they done that before? This must be happening all of the time all over the universe. Or why don’t they recognise the need for organics to create the first synths?
 

chrominance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,006
Not much to say about the episode because it feels very much like half of a two-parter. Which it is. I'll probably rewatch it before the finale just to see how it hangs together. I think I'm more positive about this episode than most in the thread (the first five minutes or so are WHOAAAAAAA) but there are also elements that feel pretty clunky and I think a longer season could've served those elements better (i.e. hello android civilization, you seem so nice OH GOD THEY WANT TO MURDER US).

I'm still hopeful there's a twist in there. Like the Federation shows up to back Picard and the Romulans are there to wipe out the synthetic life, but then we find out the thing the Admonition came from hasn't existed for hundreds of thousands of years.

Maybe the Borg wiped them out or they became the Borg. Maybe they just withered away and shut down, their supposed immortality backfiring on them because they lack the drive to live that organic life has.

Basically, synthetic life has no more to fear of organic life than organic life has to fear of synthetic life. On the contrary they need each other to survive. They can live together or they can die alone.
I definitely prefer this over the Reapers-esque storyline we seem to be getting now, but I don't know if that's the swerve that's coming or not. I don't think they're going to wrap anything up in a nice bow this season because they know there's a second one coming, and I don't see them doing anything but continuing the season 1 storyline.

I can get why Sutra is so anti-organic, her sister was already murdered by one.
EXACTLY. I'm surprised at how many people feel like Sutra has to be a descendent of Lore when she has a perfectly reasonable and understandable backstory that could explain her radicalization. Making her somehow related to Lore I think would cheapen the story. As I saw it, it's not supposed to be a story about malevolent androids corrupting a pure android society; it's about an oppressed minority discovering the means to violently overthrow their oppressors and trying to decide if the extreme cost is worth their freedom.

If this show had anything really good I think people would be talking about it more. As it is, it's a rather middling show at best with only a few highlights to speak of. That's why it's easy to focus on the negatives I think. When you look at critically loved series, like The Wire, Breaking Bad, Early GoT, Sopranos etc. the discourse was/is rich and diverse. But that's because they're excellent through and through. Picard is just not even close.
As much as I've enjoyed the show, I kind of agree with this. It's entertaining enough, but I don't think it's going to be memorable the same way TNG was, let alone the shows you mentioned. It feels more like a short story than a fully realized world, and I think suffers for it.

I also thought the cube exiting/crashing was cool.

The VFX (on a TV show no less) being at a point to be able to effectively portray a story moment like that without having to cut away to people 'watching it happen off screen', resulting in a sequence which also has a "holy shit" factor is impressive.

It was a cool moment, a borg cube breaking the atmosphere during that moment was something we hadn't seen in trek, and was almost reminiscent of the BSG "Adama Maneuver", which, guess what, was also fucking cool.
The Adama maneuver was the first thing I thought of when I saw that scene. I'll still give it to BSG because the spectacle came with obvious story implications that made its impact so much greater than the same moment in Picard (it's still one of my favourite moments in the entire series and I'm gonna go rewatch that scene right now), but it was definitely cool as hell regardless.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
England
I just feel a bit disappointed in the Borg so far. It feels as though they're no longer a threat and that kinda... sucks? Even the Big Damn Hero moments for Seven of Nine kinda just fizzle instead of having meaningful impact.

You would normally expect her taking over a Borg cube, becoming its Queen, waking up all the dormant Borg and dropping out a massive portal to be a pretty big deal but it's almost like the show is telling us the Borg isn't quite as impressive any more.

It's not even just the Borg, either. How the heck did an android figure out how to use the Vulcan mind meld?
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
England
They're synthetic, but they're also flesh and blood. They could be engineered to have any biological traits they want.

Or at least, Dahj and Soji are flesh and blood. Are all the others? Some of the others? Just the human-looking ones?
Oh I’d understand if they had said she was genetically engineered to have Vulcan traits but they made it sound like she read some books on it and that was all she needed. Besides, we don’t actually know if even Dahj and Soji are fully organic androids. They could just be like Terminators, flesh and blood hiding the machine underneath, which would certainly explain their dramatic physical superiority. The older looking androids like Sutra are definitely not organic at all, though. Their skin still looks fake.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,662
Sheffield, UK
Oh I’d understand if they had said she was genetically engineered to have Vulcan traits but they made it sound like she read some books on it and that was all she needed. Besides, we don’t actually know if even Dahj and Soji are fully organic androids. They could just be like Terminators, flesh and blood hiding the machine underneath, which would certainly explain their dramatic physical superiority. The older looking androids like Sutra are definitely not organic at all, though. Their skin still looks fake.
I'm not so sure. The-one-who's-name-I-forgot was killed by being stabbed in the eye. Could you kill Data by stabbing him in the eye?

It'd be interesting if they have been picking and choosing cool organic traits. "I'll know if you're lying" because I have Betazoid powers, for example. I doubt they'll go there though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
England
I'm not so sure. The-one-who's-name-I-forgot was killed by being stabbed in the eye. Could you kill Data by stabbing him in the eye?

It'd be interesting if they have been picking and choosing cool organic traits. "I'll know if you're lying" because I have Betazoid powers, for example. I doubt they'll go there though.
Data had plot armour so definitely not. I don’t think she was actually killed that way, though. Sutra killed her, right? So she just made it look like Narek did it. Though, yeah, I do think it’s a wasted opportunity to give the androids some actual alien biology. You wouldn’t think they’d all be designed on humans.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,614
But it's the more casual fans that like Picard? I have seen the more hard core fans disliking it. Am I wrong?
I'm sure that's generally true. Like I'm sure there are people who will like the new Star Wars movies despite how loudly part of the internet seemed to despise the last one.

Funny enough there's a Star Trek Picard thread buried in TrekBBS' politics forum and it seems much more like this one. lol
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,408
I just feel a bit disappointed in the Borg so far. It feels as though they're no longer a threat and that kinda... sucks?
I think this series has offered us a possible path towards repairing what Voyager did to the Borg.

Firstly, yeah, this particular cube hasn't done much more than provide a stage for research, but that's mostly fine. What we'e seen in the past few episodes hasn't really been a threat, but it's also been a cube that was disabled for years, with Romulan tech all over it (and presumably with lots of the original Borg tech removed or deactivated), a reduced number of Borg crew, no link to the collective, and maybe running on reduced power (I don't think we know how Borg ships are powered).

So given all the restrictions on the cube, I'm okay with the fact that it hasn't been an all-powerful killing machine.

Secondly, though, the introduction of the trajector hints at what the Borg might have been doing for the last while. The species that build the trajector (the Sikarians) were shown pretty early on in season one of Voyager, about a thousand light years from Voyager's first encounters with the Borg. That implies that the Borg have been busy in the Delta quadrant. At the very least they are present in areas where they never were before.

The best direction that I can think of for the Borg in future, given the Borg canon that Voyager handed to modern writers, would be for the Borg to have decided that going after the Alpha quadrant in general (and the Federation in particular) wasn't working out for them, and making a medium -term decision to consolidate their position in the Delta quadrant and grow from there, with the long-term aim being to gain a bunch of new tech and come back stronger than ever. While this show isn't going to get into the specifics of what the Borg are doing, it does at least hint towards that kind of possibility.
 

Combo

Member
Jan 8, 2019
473
I'm sure that's generally true. Like I'm sure there are people who will like the new Star Wars movies despite how loudly part of the internet seemed to despise the last one.

Funny enough there's a Star Trek Picard thread buried in TrekBBS' politics forum and it seems much more like this one. lol
I need to visit it.

I don't participate in the BBS because I would feel like a lone voice. I mean their polls have hardly any negative ratings. It seems unreal.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,403
Can't say I'm a fan of those romulan warbird designs. Also seemed surprisingly small in that final shot. I guess these are another class than those classic green ones?
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,878
Austria
I started this yesterday. This show is weird.
I mean I like parts about it, but some of dialogue and pacing is weird. The "explaining" they seem to do every episode is something they could have left out. The viewer knows what's going on, you don't have to have two characters telling "the story so far" to each other.
And don't get me started on Rios and his ship - this feels so out of place for Star Trek - which could be refreshing mind you, but they have done it in a "Farscape" way that's not really doing anything for me.