I get the feeling you didn't watch the movie so you just decided to parrot forum posts and Youtube comments instead.
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'Star Wars' Chief Kathleen Kennedy's Lucasfilm Deal Extended for Three Years
- Thread starter Spectromixer
- Start date
But.. RJ, a dude who has made like 3 films, still has the green light to make an entire trilogy based on nothing but his imaginationWhatever you think of TLJ, there was a clear pattern in who she chose to hire for making movies. Namely, young auteurs with promising starts in the indie circuit and with some experience working for the big boys. Y'know, like that other director who worked on a Star Wars movie?
That's why we ended up with Rian, Gareth Edwards, Colin Trevorrow and Josh Trank. There was a drive to make this a franchise driven by creatives, which clashed with corporate desires and the attempt at maintaining a new continuity.
Since then, Kennedy has clearly course corrected and is aiming to put these movies in safe hands over barely known talent.
This is the most quarter assed "criticism" ive seen on this site so far.
Is exactly right
Tons of profit outside of 1 misfire that wasn't even her pet project?
True, although RJ isn't exactly unknown talent now. He's worked with Lucasfilm, he's a known quantity now. He's still an auteur and a creative, but he's a safer choice at this point.
My point is that I don't see KK hiring unknowns like she was back in 2014, not that she isn't willing to let the franchise take creative risk.
So well made, well received movies with one box office misfire?
I think letting RJ have at three full movies based on nothing but his success of TLJ is pretty risky, creatively.
Which less risky/creative people is she hiring for safe projects?
I just don't see a whole lot of merit to the "she's now a safe, riskless producer now" argument.
Are you gunna explain what you meant maybe?
Couldn't help but post this gif after seeing some people reacting to this news lmao
They're goddamn film executives, it reminds me of those people who worship Kevin Feige
lol So true.
Same thing with boxoffice threads where people fight over which rich ass white dude will be able to afford another mansion with nerds money.
Yeah what that person's talking about doesn't sound accurate at all. GoT producers and Rian don't strike me as safe hands over barely known talent... There's nothing wrong with the later since Rian made one of the most critically well regarded films, but it's doesn't sound like a correct description of events.
You are overselling it. Finding new character's and stories to tell is what a producer does. Feige just does it within the same huge franchises, which he adapts from a comics universe. The 'carefull planning' bit doesn't really show on screen in the narrative of it all, exactly because what I point out. You can easily skip half of MCU movies and still enjoy the rest without feeling you have missed out. Because, most MCU-movies stand on their own and are only on a shallow level connected to the others. When a mash-up appears, it's not paying of carefull set-ups, but joining characters on a new adventure. It's the equivalent of having Jason Bourne, James Bond and Ethan Hunt teaming up for a new adventure. It would take effort to do it right - like every movie takes effort (what the MCU does great is have defined characters who, if paired right, give fun conflict) -, but it wouldn't be a sudden genious form of storytelling.
Having character arcs over different movies is what good sequels should strife to do, and again, the MCU does this pretty well for the most part, but it isn't a sudden flash of genious. It's what TLJ does too: taking existing characters and looking for the next step in their arc. The MCU does this with more character's stretched out over more movies, which is basically a tv-series approach on the bigger screen. It's not the immensly complex, new form of storytelling some claim it to be.
Look, I really like the MCU. I sit my ass down in the theater day one if I can for any new entry. And I find the Universe-idea interesting and compelling. But I've never understood why this is regarded as a pinacle of complex storytelling, because it isn't. They are mostly pretty forgetable movies with cool characters and action, with a structure that is mostly episodic in nature and shallow links between them. (I mean, Civil War had the potential to really shift the universe, and they do absolutely nothing with it. Even in the big culmination movie they didn't even have Cap and Iron Man meet. I hope A4 really makes good on that!) And than there is the fact the movies have imo never risen above 'good, fun blockbuster'-level. Most are very forgetable, are formulaic or have deep flaws. I repeat: I'd rather have 1 TLJ over 5 random MCU-entries.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/1167238-rian_johnson/
He is a critical winner, and Bloom deserves higher and is still fresh!
That film is a hidden gem
He is a critical winner, and Bloom deserves higher and is still fresh!
That film is a hidden gem
Or because people see or appreciate something that you don't. It's fine if you don't think that MCU movies are all that great, film criticism is very subjective after all, but as far as I can tell pretty much everyone, including most Hollywood people, fully acknowlege Feige's tremendous achievement.
Well honestly on my phone I am not going to write a thorough review of The Last Jedi.
Second my response was to someone saying rogue one sucks after praising the last Jedi.
I don't really think The Last Jedi sucks but much like rogue One it is a daring and bold idea that has big flaws. And in the case of TLJ I think the flaws are very big, but I would still rather see the next movie if it was RJ than JJ.
I think that the MCU is being lauded for it's "planning" and "careful construction" is pretty strange. The most they did was line the tones and style of each film up enough that it didn't feel like too much of a clash when you mashed them together. The MCU as a whole, overarching story is filled with holes and threads that go nowhere. This was the right call because heeding too much to 16+ films of lore that constrain what you can do next so it's better to do what's best for the story people are watching in the moment, but if I were to look at it with the same critical eye as some of you look at The Last Jedi, it's kind of a mess. The "connections" and nods are almost all afterthoughts to whatever the wider story the film is telling is. Sometimes this even gets to the point where it's so haphazardly implemented and disruptive that it hurts the flow of the film. They are there to trick you into thinking you're watching a bigger story than what's actually taking place. Characters regress or become completely different depending on who's writing or directing. New characters are introduced only to fill the exact same niches and follow the same beats of development as older ones.
The "Event" movies that cross everything over are key to making everyone think what they're watching is bigger than it actually is because they usually take whatever haphazard foreshadowing from existed from before and run with it to create a new story, but building off a teaser isn't exactly groundbreaking filmmaking. Sometimes there's no foreshadowing at all. Ultron comes out of nowhere and disappears into the void just as quickly, not really having affected anything as a character. On the other end of the scale you have Thanos who waits in the shadows doing nothing for flat out absurd amounts of time, canonically. The Russos have mentioned that they were waiting for Odin to die but the fact that this didn't actually make it into any of the 3 teasers with Thanos in it or Infinity War itself shows that they weren't really thinking about it and could have found any other way to handwave it that they wanted. Infinity War had to wait until it was time for Infinity War. That's fine, but we can all see the strings. These movies also become so overstuffed with characters that a lot of them end up not really getting any room to breathe or falling flat. The emotional weight of Black Panther's father's death doesn't get any time to breathe in Civil War because it happens in the first scene either character is in. The full weight of it didn't hit me until Ryan Coolger and his crew expertly used the Mythical Realm to flesh out their relationship and get back the important character beat Civil War kind of robbed them of. Some of them are introduced for the sake of enticing fans who wouldn't watch the movie otherwise with a negative effect on the overarching story. Tony has apparently been flat out stalking Spider-Man for a while now and nobody seems to find this strange on Tony's part or contrived. Ultron is turning out to be just a little difficult to put down, so Tony just makes another one and hopes it works out better this time, and it does. No inventiveness on behalf of the other Avengers and no backing down on Tony's part for making a mistake necessary. Scarlet Witch and Vision's relationship doesn't receive any on screen development at all and just kind of falls into place because that's what happens in the comics.
This level of sloppiness is to be expected compared to what they're trying to achieve and how many different creative voices are involved, so I'm fine with it, really. It's just not really making for better films, so I don't see why this revolutionary storytelling technique deserves to be praised If anything the commitment to stylistic consistency has it's drawbacks as a lot of these films end up not having a unique voice or message of their own. Not all of them, but a lot of them. They take a shallow dip into a different genre or message, just enough to convince you you're watching something different, before falling back on the same story beats and tropes. Throw a teaser on the end of it to convince you that you MUST watch the next one to see the next part of the story, and you have a franchise. Dr Strange presents some interesting ideas about mortality and time but they can't escape the skeleton of what is ultimately a worse version of the Iron Man character arc where an asshole has to learn to have the basic decency use their ridiculously overpowered mind/gift for good.
If anything, it's more laughable that other Studios dropped the ball on this than it is impressive that Marvel pulled it off. DC had all the blueprints in the world but a sheer lack of quality control held them back. I don't even think it will hold them back for long, since Wonder Woman was already fine and both Shazam and it's sequel look fine too. All you need are decent movies, and the sequel hooks and the continuity and the arcs can be as half assed as you want. They're just commercials for the next thing. They only need to get the idea that the world is bigger and there's more stories like this coming and you're set. BvS's biggest mistake is putting the sequel hooks at the forefront.
The MCU, to me, has felt more like a series of gateway drugs and empty promises than a long running story, even if I've enjoyed a lot of individual efforts like Black Panther, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and the Winter Soldier. I said before that I genuinely believe that any major studio could do what Marvel Studios is doing, but I don't really want that. I'm surprised people think The Last Jedi is too radical since if anything I think it could have pushed it a lot further than it actually did. I want more films like it that push the envelope further. I doubt we'll get that sort of thing now either way, since Star Wars is likely to play it safer from here on out. I respect Rian Johnson's hustle though and I hope to see at least one more Star Wars movie come out with him on less of a leash. Maybe, with how polarizing The Last Jedi was, that isn't the best idea. The last bank account I'm worried about in the long run is Disney's though. They can afford to take a gamble.
The "Event" movies that cross everything over are key to making everyone think what they're watching is bigger than it actually is because they usually take whatever haphazard foreshadowing from existed from before and run with it to create a new story, but building off a teaser isn't exactly groundbreaking filmmaking. Sometimes there's no foreshadowing at all. Ultron comes out of nowhere and disappears into the void just as quickly, not really having affected anything as a character. On the other end of the scale you have Thanos who waits in the shadows doing nothing for flat out absurd amounts of time, canonically. The Russos have mentioned that they were waiting for Odin to die but the fact that this didn't actually make it into any of the 3 teasers with Thanos in it or Infinity War itself shows that they weren't really thinking about it and could have found any other way to handwave it that they wanted. Infinity War had to wait until it was time for Infinity War. That's fine, but we can all see the strings. These movies also become so overstuffed with characters that a lot of them end up not really getting any room to breathe or falling flat. The emotional weight of Black Panther's father's death doesn't get any time to breathe in Civil War because it happens in the first scene either character is in. The full weight of it didn't hit me until Ryan Coolger and his crew expertly used the Mythical Realm to flesh out their relationship and get back the important character beat Civil War kind of robbed them of. Some of them are introduced for the sake of enticing fans who wouldn't watch the movie otherwise with a negative effect on the overarching story. Tony has apparently been flat out stalking Spider-Man for a while now and nobody seems to find this strange on Tony's part or contrived. Ultron is turning out to be just a little difficult to put down, so Tony just makes another one and hopes it works out better this time, and it does. No inventiveness on behalf of the other Avengers and no backing down on Tony's part for making a mistake necessary. Scarlet Witch and Vision's relationship doesn't receive any on screen development at all and just kind of falls into place because that's what happens in the comics.
This level of sloppiness is to be expected compared to what they're trying to achieve and how many different creative voices are involved, so I'm fine with it, really. It's just not really making for better films, so I don't see why this revolutionary storytelling technique deserves to be praised If anything the commitment to stylistic consistency has it's drawbacks as a lot of these films end up not having a unique voice or message of their own. Not all of them, but a lot of them. They take a shallow dip into a different genre or message, just enough to convince you you're watching something different, before falling back on the same story beats and tropes. Throw a teaser on the end of it to convince you that you MUST watch the next one to see the next part of the story, and you have a franchise. Dr Strange presents some interesting ideas about mortality and time but they can't escape the skeleton of what is ultimately a worse version of the Iron Man character arc where an asshole has to learn to have the basic decency use their ridiculously overpowered mind/gift for good.
If anything, it's more laughable that other Studios dropped the ball on this than it is impressive that Marvel pulled it off. DC had all the blueprints in the world but a sheer lack of quality control held them back. I don't even think it will hold them back for long, since Wonder Woman was already fine and both Shazam and it's sequel look fine too. All you need are decent movies, and the sequel hooks and the continuity and the arcs can be as half assed as you want. They're just commercials for the next thing. They only need to get the idea that the world is bigger and there's more stories like this coming and you're set. BvS's biggest mistake is putting the sequel hooks at the forefront.
The MCU, to me, has felt more like a series of gateway drugs and empty promises than a long running story, even if I've enjoyed a lot of individual efforts like Black Panther, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and the Winter Soldier. I said before that I genuinely believe that any major studio could do what Marvel Studios is doing, but I don't really want that. I'm surprised people think The Last Jedi is too radical since if anything I think it could have pushed it a lot further than it actually did. I want more films like it that push the envelope further. I doubt we'll get that sort of thing now either way, since Star Wars is likely to play it safer from here on out. I respect Rian Johnson's hustle though and I hope to see at least one more Star Wars movie come out with him on less of a leash. Maybe, with how polarizing The Last Jedi was, that isn't the best idea. The last bank account I'm worried about in the long run is Disney's though. They can afford to take a gamble.
I like the MCU. I think most of them are very solid blockbusters, and only a few of them I dislike. And as I said before, I do give Feige credit for turning this series in such a big success. That IS an achievement.
But narratively (which was my whole point)? No. It's not that special or complex.
I already typed out a response last night, outlining Rogue One's flaws that you ignored, I'm not going to dignify low effort discussion by typing out another one when you're admittedly not actually interested in discussion. You're interested in a slugfest with other posters.
Its the argumentative equivalent of going "no you"
By any metrics? Have a look at The Last Jedi's critic score, bud.
Hard to have a discussion about this movie when you're so entrenched in the assertion that it did absolutely nothing right.
Really? Because from what I've seen, your 'critique' and insights of the movie seem incredibly surface-level, almost as they were sourced from YouTube comments or CinemaSins. Maybe you were a Chris Stuckmann sort of movie critic?
Sure, it's amazing that his movies are consistently decent over a ten-year period.
The connectivity and crossover storytelling are not feats to be marveled at, however.
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You would think that after the problems the last Jedi had and solo bombing (or so I heard) that they would look for someone else
Not that I care about star wars,but when you surf the internet,you can't avoid bumping into the franchise and it's mishaps one way or the other
Not that I care about star wars,but when you surf the internet,you can't avoid bumping into the franchise and it's mishaps one way or the other
What problems? Because people complaning that TLJ didn't follow their headcanon it's not a problem, especially with the box office.
And Solo bombing is not her fault. Bob Iger greenlit that movie and Kasdan had a lot of control over it, that's why he basically ordered a reshoot because Lord and Miller weren't following his script to the t.
Iger also pushed for the movie to be released in May.. for god knows what fucking reason.
I've said from the moment they announced this date that it was a bad idea.
I watched the last Jedi,not as a fan but to go see a good popcorn flick,and that movie had issues,And lots of them....and it can't be because of fan theories because I had none. Of course mine is just an opinion among million others,It's not some universal truth...but as far as i could hear on the net, I'm not the only one with those problems with the movie.
Also,she's the producer,if there are problems during filming,that's her fault too,just as much it's the producer's merit when everything goes well
Oh gee the same ol' "I thought the Last Jedi had problems without actually naming the problems and Kennedy should be fired because reasons."
This is a gif a 10 year old would find funny. Embarrassing coming from a grown man
Couldn't help but post this gif after seeing some people reacting to this news lmao
They're goddamn film executives, it reminds me of those people who worship Kevin Feige
That was always a stupid idea coming from 3 Decembers in a row with good results and also NOBODY askes for Solo, so maybe releasing it in May was also the worst choice.
What was she supposed to do if Iger wnated the movie done and gave Kasdan authority?
She couldn't say "Look, maybe this is not the right time for the movie or the right way to do it", they have to do the movie exactly like Kasdan wanted, that was his condition to co-write The Force Awakens.
She was the producer, sure, but she has a boss above her and that boss wanted the movie done and gave Kasdan the keys to it, she had her hands tied.
If you really wanna read them that much you just have to search for my posts in the movie's thread ...If the site actually still has it somewhere,no idea how the cut off works on era.
Too lazy to write them down again,you will have to look for your battle elsewhere ,sorry :P
That doesn't help anything at all. The onus is on you especially if you're going to claim that the movie had problems, without at least going into more detail. Which also is such a common theme among these posts.
I'm sorry that RLM gif was too sexually charged for your tastes, here's a different one that gets across the same idea.
To this day I have no fucking idea why they pushed so hard for May. None. Probably the worst decision they've made out of the sale thus far.
Seeing how RLM is dumb nonsense for those with the maturity of a 10 year old that really helps your argument here.I'm sorry that RLM gif was too sexually charged for your tastes, here's a different one that gets across the same idea.
Exactly. Is that where they complain that there's the same vehicles and ships as the movie that takes place literally right before a new hope?
Yeah that was something else. Anyone claiming that TLJ or RO killed Star Wars have clearly no idea what Star Wars has survived
I don't think it's a great decision but whatever.
She hasn't done a good job at all in my opinion, and that goes beyond the quality of the movies - which is opinable - and has more to do with the fact that she seemingly embarked in what was always known to be a new trilogy without a clear plan on how to develop it.
The first movie was given to JJ that did one thing, then to Johnson who pretty much negated the main plot points of the previous movie (Snoke the new big bad guy -> cut in half without compliments; emphasis and secrecy about the nature of Rey's parents -> they're nobodies; the whole first movie revolving around finding Luke -> he's just a cranky old man).
I don't think giving the movies to different people and give them near total agency in where to take them was a good way to manage Star Wars.
She hasn't done a good job at all in my opinion, and that goes beyond the quality of the movies - which is opinable - and has more to do with the fact that she seemingly embarked in what was always known to be a new trilogy without a clear plan on how to develop it.
The first movie was given to JJ that did one thing, then to Johnson who pretty much negated the main plot points of the previous movie (Snoke the new big bad guy -> cut in half without compliments; emphasis and secrecy about the nature of Rey's parents -> they're nobodies; the whole first movie revolving around finding Luke -> he's just a cranky old man).
I don't think giving the movies to different people and give them near total agency in where to take them was a good way to manage Star Wars.