Status
Not open for further replies.

CorrisD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
805
I think looking back at the film now a few days later, I think I am most disappointed that Anakin didn't make an appearance. The "Skywalker Saga" story chronologically started with him, he should have been there in some form to round it off, a voice isn't good enough. They also absolutely should have had Vader talking to Ben at some point in the films previously, we all assumed he was when TFA came out and he was talking to the helmet, but they should have shown it, Ben could have been so shrouded in the dark side because of Palpatine that force ghosts could never reach him.

I also believe they should have really just come out and say that Palpatine created the Skywalkers, it was hinted at in RotS, and Lucas originally wanted him to just come out and say it but decided against it. It would have linked both family lines in more than just being around each other, and they could have easily said that Palpatine can't "die" while someone of the Skywalker bloodline still lives. It would have been a simple way of explaining Palpatine still being around without having to be super specific and why Ben needed to die, it would give us a reason why Rey and Ben were linked besides that the force decided, and it would give Rey an actual connection and reason to take on the Skywalker name.

Not only did JJ seperate the trio at the end of FA, but he ended it on a cliffhanger, leaving Rian no choice but to pick up the story immediately afterwards.

JJ's one moment of innovation to the series, ending a movie on a cliffhanger in the middle of a scene...inspired Rian to keep the trio on their separate journeys.

w3hUyFC.gif

Rian could have easily jumped a few weeks to a few months, they didn't have to continue it straight off, just like every other Star Wars film has done they can just come in at a later date and explain anything they need to. Didn't Rian have a hand in how TFA ended as there's a interview somewhere of JJ saying originally Luke was going to be surrounded by floating rocks, while Rian wanted him to be cut off from the force.
 

Phamit

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,952
Ochi is a "Jedi hunter"/Sith loyalist who Sheev, who must have been alive since at least 15 ABY or so, sent out to capture his granddaughter. He found Rey's parents on Jakku but they sold (!!) their daughter to Unkar Plutt to protect her, then he captured them and took off in his ship (even though Rey was standing RIGHT THERE YELLING AT THE SHIP TO COME BACK). When he couldn't get the parents to speak about Rey's whereabouts, he killed them with his ceremonial dagger, which he had specifically carved to visually demonstrate the location of Sheev's Wayfinder within the wreckage of the Death Star if you hold the dagger up at a certain angle and stand on a certain spot of land. For some reason. He also inscribed on the dagger in the Sith runes the coordinates to find the DSII pieces. He then went to Pasaana, for some reason, and Luke and Lando were chasing him presumably because he's a Jedi hunter and he knew the way to Exegol, which they wanted to find for reasons, but he died when he stepped into quicksand outside his parked ship and got eaten by a snake.
Also, the resistance only knows about Ochi, because apparently Luke was using the old sacred Jedi Order books as a notebook about his journeys instead of reading them?
 

MrMephistoX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
I didn't say that and you seem really caught up on an argument I never even made. What does it matter if the skywalkers are the central heroes or not of the franchise when I specifically said they just ended up being losers who accomplished nothing? Like the two are not mutually exclusive and I have no idea why you think they are (nor why you think this matters or why it behooves your argument to try and suggest that the last 9 movies titled "the skywalker saga" are not primarily about the skywalkers).

Holy shit I have bingo. Also way to be completely ignorant to where the source of the leaks came from but I guess weve reached the point where star wars fans here just reach for calling people racist if an argument doesn't mesh with their own (and we had been doing so well with this as well here).

Honestly not intentionally singling you out bro. I'm just saying a lot of the Finn Rey shipping arguments boil down to he didn't get with Rey or Rose because of his skin tone. I think the reason its not clear he's trying to tell Rey he can use the force boils down to the script not explicitly saying it not some last minute suit change at Disney. My read is that the script overall reads like rapid fire Tarantino or Aaron Sorkin which is how most JJ films go. If you rewatch it becomes clear.
 

Jangowuzhere

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
It's different kinds of bad, so it depends on what you can stomach. The prequels have absolutely zero chemistry and a lot of awful performances. But in the broad strokes--like, if you just generally laid out the big story beats for the prequels--they work pretty well. Anakin being convinced to turn to the Dark Side because he's terrified of losing someone he loves is, honestly, a perfect story reason for his corruption. It's just executed like shit.

TROS still has all the chemistry and solid performances among the main cast. There are a lot of good, funny lines and everyone still vibes with each other. But the plot is total arbitrary gibberish. So, in the moment, there's nothing as unwatchable in TROS as there is in the worst parts of the prequels. But (as I said much earlier in the thread) it is absolutely the dumbest Star Wars movie.
I don't know. I thought the Rey and Ren kiss scene, Leia's death, and the end where Rey takes on the name of Skywalker had me cringing harder than anything the prequels had.

The last one is essentially fan fiction on the big screen. Really fucking dumb.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,751
Costa Rica
SPOILER_f9ZnLIY.png


Jokes aside I HATE the fact that she uses her powers for this. And when I wonder why I hate it, I keep getting back to the Harry Potter scene where Harry decides to not use any magic to bury Dobby as he feels digging the grave with actual effort is a sign of respect.

I hate how she just superpowers a hole and that's it.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,286
Why did they give the Knights of Ren a cool ship design only to show it once in an unnecessary scene.

I think the more important question is: why were the Knights of Ren so fucking pathetic? This would be like Vader taking out not just one, not two, but an entire group of some of the best trained Sith around by just force choking them all at the same time. Granted, they were still, low-rent "Nu Sith", but any one of them should have been at least not that far behind Kylo. Were they all just a group of ANH level Obi-Wans fighting prequels Anakin?
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
Just got back. I mean....it was a good flick, you just kinda have to go with it....But otherwise. Meh. To me, the only actually interesting parts of the movie were Kylo and Rey together. Both of those actors I thought did pretty good with the material they were given.

Star Wars can always be so much more than it ends up being.

And Im record now. TLJ is the best of the last triliogy. It actually went somewhere. Tried to do something. This one, just felt flat and unearned.
 

PrintedCrayon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
771
Seadome
That clip is showing an "Ion Cannon" from Hoth firing into space. Also, I honestly don't remember them ever saying "turbolaser" until The Force Awakens.

edit: Looks like turbolasers are actually what were on the Death Star trench run (and they shot green bolts), and I think those were the same guns Poe was trying to blow up in The Last Jedi.

Are you maybe thinking about the coloring of the ion cannons from the video games? They were blue there.
The Star Wars databank details them as being equipped with Turbolasers, so who even knows at this point! Haha
 

Deleted member 2229

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Finn spent years running after and trying to save a girl that ends up getting with a guy that's tried to kidnap and or maim her multiple times.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Honestly not intentionally singling you out bro. I'm just saying a lot of the Finn Rey shipping arguments boil down to he didn't get with Rey or Rose because of his skin tone. I think the reason its not clear he's trying to tell Rey he can use the force boils down to the script not explicitly saying it not some last minute suit change at Disney. My read is that the script overall reads like rapid fire Tarantino or Aaron Sorkin which is how most JJ films go. If you rewatch it becomes clear.
I'm aware youre not singling me out. I'm just pointing out calling jedi paxis an alt right troll is incredibly ignorant
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
What I'm surprised is how surprised I was when it happened. Like, it was the most important relationship in the ST, but it somehow didn't feel romantic to me in any way. Which makes no sense since even if there isn't any in the text, people tend to project romantic feelings onto important, nonfamilial relationships anyway. So why didn't I expect this?
I didn't quite expect it when it happened, but in TLJ, it was obvious (and I thought it was great).
 
Feb 4, 2018
1,687
Sidelining Rose in response to fan backlash (a lot of which was racist & sexist) is pretty different from writing a story where the main trio is separated.

like, really different

I HATE the fact that her being sidelined is being cheered by racists, but if JJ didn't feel like she was a great addition, how is he supposed to reduce her screentime in favor of characters he thinks are better?

Is there a world in which you can both think Rose wasn't the best character and also think sidelining her in favor of better characters was the right call without being a racist? I think you're arguing this in good faith so I'm just genuinely trying to understand you.

She shouldn't receive top billing just to spite racists.
 

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,516
I think looking back at the film now a few days later, I think I am most disappointed that Anakin didn't make an appearance. The "Skywalker Saga" story chronologically started with him, he should have been there in some form to round it off, a voice isn't good enough. They also absolutely should have had Vader talking to Ben at some point in the films previously, we all assumed he was when TFA came out and he was talking to the helmet, but they should have shown it, Ben could have been so shrouded in the dark side because of Palpatine that force ghosts could never reach him.

Yea, if you're ranking levels of cheese from 1-10, with 10 being just vomit inducing, the last film in "The Skywalker Saga" ending with pretty much every significant force ghost being physically present in the film to help take down Palps might be a 7.

But the single line that is " You're Palpatine's granddaughter" was easily a 10, so fuck, why didn't it happen? JJ didn't hold back on anything else.
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
13,181
Palpatine wanting Rey to kill him makes sense of something that didn't quite make sense in Return of the Jedi, where he also wanted Luke to strike him down, which for a selfish mastermind seemed kind of off, like maybe he knew Vader would have stopped Luke but that trying would lead Luke down the path. If he would have lived on through that, it makes more sense. Going into this film I thought that Sidious was trying for Plagueis's style of immortality, but limping on to end his legacy "properly" was a good take on that.

why does he tell rey about the bad things that are going to happen if she strikes him down in anger

"Haha yes kill me and make this situation like 100 times worse!!!"
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
13,181
I HATE the fact that her being sidelined is being cheered by racists, but if JJ didn't feel like she was a great addition, how is he supposed to reduce her screentime in favor of better characters?

Is there a world in which you can both think Rose wasn't the best character and also think sidelining her in favor of better characters was the right call without being a racist? I think you're arguing this in good faith so I'm just genuinely trying to understand you.

She shouldn't receive top billing just to spite racists.

maybe...he and the writing team could've written her better? is that beyond their capabilities or something?
 

m_shortpants

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,520
Ochi is a "Jedi hunter"/Sith loyalist who Sheev, who must have been alive since at least 15 ABY or so, sent out to capture his granddaughter. He found Rey's parents on Jakku but they sold (!!) their daughter to Unkar Plutt to protect her, then he captured them and took off in his ship (even though Rey was standing RIGHT THERE YELLING AT THE SHIP TO COME BACK). When he couldn't get the parents to speak about Rey's whereabouts, he killed them with his ceremonial dagger, which he had specifically carved to visually demonstrate the location of Sheev's Wayfinder within the wreckage of the Death Star if you hold the dagger up at a certain angle and stand on a certain spot of land. For some reason. He also inscribed on the dagger in the Sith runes the coordinates to find the DSII pieces. He then went to Pasaana, for some reason, and Luke and Lando were chasing him presumably because he's a Jedi hunter and he knew the way to Exegol, which they wanted to find for reasons, but he died when he stepped into quicksand outside his parked ship and got eaten by a snake.

LOL. Someone was hoping no one would pay too much attention to that. Christ.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,757
SPOILER_f9ZnLIY.png


Jokes aside I HATE the fact that she uses her powers for this. And when I wonder why I hate it, I keep getting back to the Harry Potter scene where Harry decides to not use any magic to bury Dobby as he feels digging the grave with actual effort is a sign of respect.

I hate how she just superpowers a hole and that's it.

Nah, that's not the problem.

The problem is Tattooine is a shithole that Luke wanted off from the moment we met him and he never changed his mind on that and that's the location being used to honor him. Other than his aunt and uncle, he never had much love for his life as a moisture farmer and was even willing to join the Empire to get off. Burying the lightsabers there is utterly meaningless to him because that's not actually his home, it's just where he grew up.

It'd be like if Wado was the one to give the eulogy at Anakin's funeral.

And with Leia, it's even more meaningless because she has no connection to Tattooine at all.

The only reason Rey brought it back here is because Tattooine is a meaningful starting place for us, the audience, because of the binary sunset. But TLJ already did a binary sunset send off.

It's just all very artificial and specifically designed to pander to fans regardless of coherency.
 

Jangowuzhere

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
I disagree 100%. Go rewatch TLJ. I thought it was blatantly obvious there. IMO the only scenes in the entire trilogy that truly pop is when them to are on screen.
No, I literally rewatched TLJ right before seeing TROS.

We have to agree to disagree here, because I think you are totally in the wrong. There's a link between the two that at MOST would be something akin to a brother/sister relationship. Nothing about them was romantic at all.
 

Deleted member 2229

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
No, I literally rewatched TLJ right before seeing TROS.

We have to agree to disagree here, because I think you are totally in the wrong. There's a link between the two that at MOST would be something akin to a brother/sister relationship. Nothing about them was romantic at all.
But you see here's the thing
Brother and sister relationships are romantic in Star Wars
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
No, I literally rewatched TLJ right before seeing TROS.

We have to agree to disagree here, because I think you are totally in wrong. There's a link between the two that at MOST would be something akin to a brother/sister relationship. Nothing about them was romantic at all.
Fair enough. We all see things differently. It really seems apparent to me....
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
Rey blushes when she sees Ren shirtless. That is the most tension you ever get. And that scene is presented as joke to the audience more than sexual tension between characters.
Its more than that. This is also bookended with Finn (who was hinted at being a love interest in the first one), sees her change.

You do you man, but Im not alone in thinking this was one of the few plot points actually earned between two movies.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,757
Rey blushes when she sees Ren shirtless. That is the most tension you ever get. And that scene is presented as joke to the audience more than sexual tension between characters.
I mean, it can be both. It's funny because Rey is so startled and somewhat embarassed, which is a funny situation to be in with your arch nemesis.

But the reason she is started is because she's going "oh damn." So it's funny because she's attracted to her arch enemy.

But like, that's it. She finds him hot when he's shirtless. It's a momentary of some tension relief by letting her just be a teenage girl before getting back into the serious business of being enemies at war.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,647
I think the implication is that she went to go see Ben like Han did or something, but since Fisher is gone they can't really film a new scene with her with that dialogue so they used Han instead. While I think the whole idea of him being redeemed is pretty dumb I think that scene was incredibly well done and one of the moments in the movie I liked

Though throwing your lightsaber and going to fight a battle empty handed was not the best idea. Throwing the helmet would've been more symbolic and the more logical choice.

Rei left before he turned and she had his lightsaber, the fact she gave it back to him in the first place made no sense to me haha
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
I mean, it can be both. It's funny because Rey is so startled and somewhat embarassed, which is a funny situation to be in with your arch nemesis.

But the reason she is started is because she's going "oh damn." So it's funny because she's attracted to her arch enemy.

But like, that's it. She finds him hot when he's shirtless. It's a momentary of some tension relief by letting her just be a teenage girl before getting back into the serious business of being enemies at war.
Its like....none of you know what women can be like....
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,894
www.squackle.com
the romantic tension in the sequels is the kind of romantic tension you get when you put two naked virgins in the same room.


that kiss was "signaled" only because you wanted some sort of human interaction between them and it was getting annoying
 
Status
Not open for further replies.