The daughter probably has a better chance with a guardian who doesn't take her out robbing.
Stealing Amazon Packages in the Age of Nextdoor
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Home surveillance is not something to be minimized. You're thinking of public CCTV surveillance. And I see no reason to think the daughter isn't better off with someone who isn't a kleptomaniac heroin user.
This is not any kind of two-sides issue. Thief was caught, thief continues to thieve, thief gets caught more, thief is punished. The people who were stolen from are not any kind of bad guys here. The woman clearly needs help of some kind, but Saint Reagan dismantled the mental health care system in the '80s so that's out the window until major reform can be enacted.
I read the entire article. It was trying super hard to twist the neighbors as bad people for reporting thefts and trying to garner sympathy for the thief, but nah. I don't have sympathy for a woman that was given a MULTITUDE of chances and MULTIPLE rehab stints (and never any lengthy or life prison sentences, wtf at whoever suggested that happened). On top of being given public housing assistance, insurance, and food stamps. She's a kleptomaniac, pathological liar, and drug addict that does not want to change even after being given every opportunity to try. Her daughter sounds like she's much better off with the aunt, thank god. What in the world was the point of that article? I'm sorry, but people have limits, and this lady was way exceeding the limits of human empathy and decency at every turn. Nest cams and Ring surveillance are not the bad guys there, wtf, as much as this article tried to paint them as so. Pretty shit article overall, and major side-eyes to the author. Some people cannot be helped because they don't want to be helped. And yeah, maybe it's a mental health issue at its core, that still doesn't make the neighbors or the tech involved bad.
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Nextdoor is shit. I feel bad for this woman on account of her homelessness, addiction, and pretty clear kleptomania, but obviously stealing packages is also wrong. If we had a rehabilitative justice system then perhaps she'd be doing better.
Of course she should not have custody of her daughter. She needs help and rehabilitation and the child needs a safe environment in which to grow. The daughter was six years old, it's terrifying to think some believe the best environment for her is being in a home with a heroin addict.
It was easy for a minute to identify porch pirates, but now you have Facebook groups called 'Buy Nothing' where neighbors give away possesions to those that need/want them instead of throwing them out.
So sometimes what looks like a porch theif, is actually just a buy nothing 'give'
I do feel sorry for the cycle of horrible things happening to the porch thief, but I also understand the feeling of having your personal home/space violated.
So sometimes what looks like a porch theif, is actually just a buy nothing 'give'
I do feel sorry for the cycle of horrible things happening to the porch thief, but I also understand the feeling of having your personal home/space violated.
I mean. There are plenty of times where our justice system is lacking.... This isn't one of them.
She got sent to court, and got ordered for rehabilitation. Not jail. And then she refused that. This isn't a case of people who need help, and don't get it. This is a case of people who get the help they need, and refuse it. Unfortunately, you cannot be forced to go to rehabilitation.
Porch thieves are why I have packages delivered to work now. Feel badly for the daughter, but it's without question she is in better hands.
you really shouldn't insinuate that people don't escape drug addiction because they don't want to. We know that substance abuse changes the way we think, the way our body and mind works and also that rehab centers fucking suck.
Fair points on the other stuff.
I don't just mean 'rehabilitative' in terms of drug rehab, I mean in a wide variety of ways. Mental healthcare, job training, education, etc.
She clearly needs help, but most drug addicts aren't eager to go to rehab. That's not an uncommon phenomenon.
If all you are arguing is that our justice system didn't completely destroy this woman like it does so many others, then sure. But it didn't do much in terms of rehabilitation either. Hell, the fact she is now homeless is a failure of our system too.
Regarding the Theranos comparison: you can't just equate low-level property theft to corporate malfeasance and expect people to stroke their chins and say 'hmm, you're right, the latter is a bigger problem rationally speaking'. There's a major emotional component to it.
Low-level property theft invades your private sphere in a way that feels personal and invokes a feeling of violation: people messing with your car, your home or the contents of your mail is an invasive, even traumatic experience - it's why criminologists often sort property crime into high-impact and low-impact categories, rather than by net worth of the stolen goods.
In my country, this leads to huge policing challenges - citizens simply don't accept a focus on the objective 'real crimes'. They want police to take every property crime that affects them as serious as a money laundering case, which is simply not possible from a resource perspective. We have some statistics that taking out the local fence is FAR more effective than catching every last burglar but citizens perceive letting the burglars go as an affront to justice and this forces police to re-prioritise.
So I can see citizens taking matters into their own hands and using surveillance technology/social media to come down on property crime. And it's likely you won't be able to reason them out of it - you'll come up against deep-seated feelings about personal safety and entitlement.
Low-level property theft invades your private sphere in a way that feels personal and invokes a feeling of violation: people messing with your car, your home or the contents of your mail is an invasive, even traumatic experience - it's why criminologists often sort property crime into high-impact and low-impact categories, rather than by net worth of the stolen goods.
In my country, this leads to huge policing challenges - citizens simply don't accept a focus on the objective 'real crimes'. They want police to take every property crime that affects them as serious as a money laundering case, which is simply not possible from a resource perspective. We have some statistics that taking out the local fence is FAR more effective than catching every last burglar but citizens perceive letting the burglars go as an affront to justice and this forces police to re-prioritise.
So I can see citizens taking matters into their own hands and using surveillance technology/social media to come down on property crime. And it's likely you won't be able to reason them out of it - you'll come up against deep-seated feelings about personal safety and entitlement.
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is the article supposed to make us upset that people are using these products exactly how they advertise their use? lol.
It's like they're suggesting that people who have a Ring somehow have an unfair advantage against thieves.
This is the most bizarre framing I have ever seen for an article. The topics are worth exploring, but it feels like the author used the first random story he could find to finally talk about them
Is this an American thing where packages are just dropped unattended at your door? I find that so baffling. In India, the Amazon delivery page explicitly says that someone should be present at your residence at the time of delivery.
I'm not totally sure about justifying or condoning theft. Making money by fucking over other people isn't right, regardless of whether you're richer than them or poorer.
I mean, people get medicines delivered to their homes - what happens if that gets stolen? The thief gets to sell drugs to their pals and the person that actually needs that stuff has to struggle to convince the pharmacy to let them have more because it was stolen?
So long as he doesn't start singing, we're okay.
I mean, people get medicines delivered to their homes - what happens if that gets stolen? The thief gets to sell drugs to their pals and the person that actually needs that stuff has to struggle to convince the pharmacy to let them have more because it was stolen?
So long as he doesn't start singing, we're okay.
This country suffers because of a lack of humanity. People living in those housing projects need more, more education, more vocational training, more mental health services, more financial counseling services, etc. Help them build the skills to make money, help them build the mental tools needed to move beyond their situation. This goes for poor people in rural areas or anywhere else.
The stealing is wrong and there is a gap between stealing to feed yourself or your family and stealing to buy iPhones or drugs. Education and counseling go a long way towards addressing the underlying issues. Poverty has deep roots and it needs solutions that attack the fundamental causes of the issue.
I feel awful for anyone caught up in generational poverty, but it can't be ignored that the black community is uniquely impacted as they continue to be victims of something that started long ago. Everyone deserves a shot a good life and when you continue to shackle people by giving them substandard educations and denying them opportunities, you greatly diminish a chance for that.
Support politicians that actually support the poor. Support the ones that truly believe in an outstanding education for all. It's a rigged system and the scales are tipped completely in favor of the white and wealthy in this country. Support people who recognize that and want to change it.
I'm white, I'm male. My life is pretty easy, I don't live in fear of institutional violence, people don't follow me around stores, people don't put cameras in my face and accuse me of shit. I can't imagine how different my life would be if I had to deal with all of it. I want it all to change, for everyone. My life won't be worse because someone else's got better, in fact it would be quite the opposite.
Tax billionaires out of existence, build better lives for everyone else. Reform the criminal justice system, disband the police and make it better. There is so much to do, support people who support a revolution, not incremental change.
The stealing is wrong and there is a gap between stealing to feed yourself or your family and stealing to buy iPhones or drugs. Education and counseling go a long way towards addressing the underlying issues. Poverty has deep roots and it needs solutions that attack the fundamental causes of the issue.
I feel awful for anyone caught up in generational poverty, but it can't be ignored that the black community is uniquely impacted as they continue to be victims of something that started long ago. Everyone deserves a shot a good life and when you continue to shackle people by giving them substandard educations and denying them opportunities, you greatly diminish a chance for that.
Support politicians that actually support the poor. Support the ones that truly believe in an outstanding education for all. It's a rigged system and the scales are tipped completely in favor of the white and wealthy in this country. Support people who recognize that and want to change it.
I'm white, I'm male. My life is pretty easy, I don't live in fear of institutional violence, people don't follow me around stores, people don't put cameras in my face and accuse me of shit. I can't imagine how different my life would be if I had to deal with all of it. I want it all to change, for everyone. My life won't be worse because someone else's got better, in fact it would be quite the opposite.
Tax billionaires out of existence, build better lives for everyone else. Reform the criminal justice system, disband the police and make it better. There is so much to do, support people who support a revolution, not incremental change.
Rehab attempts to address at least one of those problems.
I think Nextdoor is fine. I have a ring camera and think it's really nice. Less for security than it is convenience. But like anything it can be abused. I've seen a couple of notices pop up within the past week from "neighbors" saying things like "kids—should I call the police??" with video uploads of black kids literally just walking past a house. That's stupid and shitty but the problem isn't the cameras, it's the assholes using them.
Hopefully her daughter, who is no longer being led into a life of crime by her mother. If this lady was stealing groceries in order to survive, I'd have a lot more sympathy. As it is she's stealing shit from Amazon. She was caught, thanks to the cameras, and sent to rehab. You can talk about the effectiveness of rehab and the system, since she went on to reoffend, but the angle of tutting at victims of theft because they've got more money than the thief is a bit much.
I don't think the thief was treated all that harshly. Someone getting locked up for 5 years because they voted wrong...now THAT'S harsh. No matter how much help might be on offer, sometimes people just can't or don't want to help themselves.
I mean the perpetrator needs help
but the consequences levied seem fair based on the article. It is a shame that our system likely doesn't provide a viable path to full recovery if that is even possible in this particular case
It's a good article. Bit wordy and obtusely written, but it definitely posits the thing as not being black and white, which the issue is.
Yeah the article would have been better served being about how the system failed Fairley, wrapping it up in doorbell cams and classism makes the article self defeating. Seemed like the writer should have wrote two articles, one about how folks like fairley fall through the cracks and the doorbell cam culture.
What do you suggest should happen to people caught in possession of drugs?
I don't know, maybe you could sympathise with an impoverished person who has a drug problem when these may be contributing factors to them stealing? Not saying you should sympathise with their actions, but with the possible causes of their actions.
Yeah, this person gets it.
The Nextdoor app/website is used heavily in my city/area, there are multiple posts per day (on Halloween, there were 40 posts at least) showing up of Ring doorbell camera footage links with the subject of "BOLO: Amazon package thief caught" with people stating police have told them to personally confront these package thieves because the police cannot stop these people simply by arresting them, charging them with theft, putting them in jail because they keep repeating the same crime.
I can sympathise with a person living a poverty, but much less so when what little money she has goes into drugs. She has been offered her chance to go to rehab, and it didn't work. COnsidering the number of repeated offenses, it's pretty clear that she wont get better by herself, so coercion is necessary.
Now she need to go in jail for some time. Hopefully she's get out of it cured from her addiction.
Now she need to go in jail for some time. Hopefully she's get out of it cured from her addiction.
For this reason we maintain a box at the UPS store around the corner from the house. Packages and medical and credit card bills go there. Nothing in the box at home or on the porch for them to steal
In my city, there are habitual Amazon package thieves who are repeatedly put in jail for theft, clearly jail time is not working, what do you think should be done to habitual thieves who steal despite getting put in jail repeatedly?
Also, the Amazon lockers in my city are located outside of 7-Elevens, I've seen multiple reports that the habitual Amazon package thieves have been hanging around the 7-Elevens with these Amazon lockers to assault and rob people of their packages, they get placed in jail for some time, when they are released, they go back to stealing packages.
I still don't understand why it's allowed to put packages on the porsh if no one is around, in my country when i get a package and I'm not there, they'll either reschedule the delivery and come back at a later time or they'll just drop it at a collect point (like a small shop or something). It seems rather stupid to put a package in front of someone house imo.
I was trying hard to sympathize, but the thief was really making it hard.
She even ignored repeatedly court dates where it is said the judge was going to mostly order rehab stints/ possibly assign social workers/ helpers, and then it repeatedly escalated into arrests and jail time, after which she would resume the behavior.
It breaks my heart, but her daughter likely has a better chance in life without her.
She even ignored repeatedly court dates where it is said the judge was going to mostly order rehab stints/ possibly assign social workers/ helpers, and then it repeatedly escalated into arrests and jail time, after which she would resume the behavior.
It breaks my heart, but her daughter likely has a better chance in life without her.
she's a drug addict guys, this isn't a story of someone stealing to go on vacation. Throwing her in jail isn't necessarily a solution either cause, newsflash, its not hard to get drugs in jail either. I get the 'thief must get arm chopped off' rhetoric but her goal here isn't stealing packages for the sake of stealing packages...its feeding her addiction. The idea she did one stint in rehab and should come out better is about as true as any 'i got one treatment for a disease so now im cured'. The idea that an offer of help/threat of punishment should make someone immediately do the right thing is some hallmark tv stuff if you know anyone dealing with addiction irl
I thought we left all this drug addicts are just bad people rhetoric back in the 80's when it was just poor poc that society was happy to kill anyway. We are supposed to be more enlightened since its white kids from the burbs making the bulk of new users who apparently should have futures and are tragedies, at least what the sympathetic news articles tell me In 2019 as opposed to 'crackheads' in 1999
I thought we left all this drug addicts are just bad people rhetoric back in the 80's when it was just poor poc that society was happy to kill anyway. We are supposed to be more enlightened since its white kids from the burbs making the bulk of new users who apparently should have futures and are tragedies, at least what the sympathetic news articles tell me In 2019 as opposed to 'crackheads' in 1999
So let me get this straight. She steals mail, which is a felony. She gets caught with heroin, and is given a fine, not possession or jail time?
She went to rehab but didnt stay? So she lost custody of her kid, who she made her help steal people's mail, which is a felony? Must have the most relaxed police, jury and judge. And now she's homeless and back to stealing mail?
She went to rehab but didnt stay? So she lost custody of her kid, who she made her help steal people's mail, which is a felony? Must have the most relaxed police, jury and judge. And now she's homeless and back to stealing mail?