Stop using "Separate the work from the artist". Just. STOP.

[Deleted member 5334]

Literally. Just stop this crap.

I'm beyond livid at the responses from the Harry Potter thread over at the gaming thread. People are LITERALLY handwaving Trans People's complaints on the issue. Just. STOP.

I won't lie, there was a time I thought this way, awhile ago, but over the years, I realized this is an extremely privileged take and all it does it help funnel money into a bigot (especially if they're still alive), and often allows for them to profit and use it to push their own agenda (ex., buying tickets and/or music CDs of Dragon Quest, 100% supports Sugiyama, who uses his position to funnel money into nationalist groups to push his bigoted agenda, rooted in xenophobia, Queerphobia, Racism, etc., and has a strong presence in the Entertainment industry and Political area).

You literally cannot separate the artist from their works. Many times, like Harry Potter, the author's views translate into the work itself. It's rooted, woven, into the artists works. You cannot separate that, ever. Trying to say that, is given an open pass and completely handwaving people's complaints about these issues.

Enough. is. enough. Especially on fucking Pride Month. Jesus Christ.

Just. Stop. This. Mindset.

 

[Deleted member 4034]

Agreed.

If you still want to enjoy the media, fine, just own that simple fact instead patting yourself on the back for being indifferent or actually not caring.

 

[The Adder]

Agreed. Financial support aside, your views inherently bleed into your art. There is no separation.

 

[ElNerdo]

I never got the whole "separate the art from the artist" argument. In the case of HP, you'll be putting money in their pocket every time you purchase something HP themed. You're financing a bigot.

 

[Rika]

Agreed with this big time. I may check out the game on YouTube or something instead of directly buying it.

 

[JB2448]

Yep. Same reason I can't really support Atlus until they make significant strides in LGBTQ representation and theming.

 

[Darksol]

If I didn't separate the art from the artist I wouldn't be able to enjoy pretty much anything that isn't contemporary (and as we've seen today, even that isn't a given).

You do you.

 

[Pooh]

Is the author no longer dead?

 

[Steven]

There's a line to draw.

I separate the artist from the art all the time - just like I separate products from their creators. If I didn't, I probably couldn't enjoy anything. I'm typing on an iPad, which uses indecent labor practices. I listen to Eminem and he's had tons of questionable views to many different communities. A lot of music I listen to, games I play, products I use...

Sure, I can make my best efforts to not support things that are obviously bad, but yeah there's a point to where it's like okay if I don't want to support the system at all, I need to go live out in the woods.

 

[RyuCookingSomeRice]

She is an absolute horrible wretch of a person but just because she wrote the original doesnt mean I support her by buying this game.

Not that I was planning to but still.

 

[CaviarMeths]

This phrase was appropriated by people who don't care enough about social issues to adjust their consumer habits and like to pretend it's an admiral character trait to be apathetic.

It's supposed to be about art criticism, whether or not a work of art should be judged in the context of the artist's personal views. Does an author's horrific views change the subtext of the narrative? It's something to consider when evaluating art. What does Rowling's transphobia say about the stories she wrote? Probably quite a bit if we go back and check again.

It's not even about consumerism! You don't have to buy her books to join the conversation. Or you can. It doesn't matter. But a lot of people are just annoyed that the conversation is even taking place at all so brag about how uninterested they are in thinking about stuff.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Is the author no longer dead?

Click to shrink...

 

[diakyu]

I believe in it being a case by case thing but Rowling is still very much alive and active and her views are toxic so uh yeah she can leave.

 

[Ryutaryi]

When a piece of work is done by a singular person or a small team, there is no way their influence can't be felt within the media itself. Authors, especially, can't be separated from their work because their biases will inevitably show within the piece whether they intend to or not, or in J.K. Rowling's case very intentionally. I feel like this mindset can only be somewhat ethically taken when it is a massive team working on something with no central figurehead. An Assassin's Creed game with hundreds of people touching it is a prime example since I'm sure quite a high percentage have views that are harmful even if Ubisoft isn't presenting a bigoted or harmful message. Dragon Quest can also be seen this way if you only look at the game and not the copies of music that is sold alongside it. That one probably depends on how you look at the composer's involvement in the series as a whole.

There is no ethical consumption in the modern age, but lines can be drawn when someone is an absolute monster like Rowling is. Most creators' biases outside of their work is never revealed so you can never know what they truly think, but her views and ties with Harry Potter are unbreakable, inexcusable, and should be avoided at all costs.

 

[Mike Works]

Literally. Just stop this crap.

I'm beyond livid at the responses from the Harry Potter thread over at the gaming thread. People are LITERALLY handwaving Trans People's complaints on the issue. Just. STOP.

I won't lie, there was a time I thought this way, awhile ago, but over the years, I realized this is an extremely privileged take and all it does it help funnel money into a bigot (especially if they're still alive), and often allows for them to profit and use it to push their own agenda (ex., buying tickets and/or music CDs of Dragon Quest, 100% supports Sugiyama, who uses his position to funnel money into nationalist groups to push his bigoted agenda, rooted in xenophobia, Queerphobia, Racism, etc., and has a strong presence in the Entertainment industry and Political area).

You literally cannot separate the artist from their works. Many times, like Harry Potter, the author's views translate into the work itself. It's rooted, woven, into the artists works. You cannot separate that, ever. Trying to say that, is given an open pass and completely handwaving people's complaints about these issues.

Enough. is. enough. Especially on fucking Pride Month. Jesus Christ.

Just. Stop. This. Mindset.

Click to shrink...

I don't really care about Harry Potter either way, and I think anyone giving trans people shit can go to hell.

But on the subject of separating the art from the artist, here's a question for you OP: what computer, laptop, tablet, or phone did you make this thread on?

 

[Z-Beat]

I never got the whole "separate the art from the artist" argument. In the case of HP, you'll be putting money in their pocket every time you purchase something HP themed. You're financing a bigot.

Click to shrink...

People want to enjoy the thing they like without guilt of supporting the creator. It's a justification/excuse

 

[Deleted member 8593]

Is the author no longer dead?

Click to shrink...

Barthes wasn't exactly thinking about lining a bigot's pockets so she can continue spreading her hateful views because you can't resist buying a video game.

 

[Radrigal]

???

 

[Deleted member 12833]

I personally can do it and will continue to do so as I please....but yea, I get it.

 

[Deleted member 6582]

"Separating art from artist" doesn't mean willfully financing awful people. It means that the work can stand on it's own without the author or their baggage. In a very commercialized spaces these can be difficult to separate but that's not what it refers to.

 

[Chikor]

I haven't finished the first Harry Potter book, I think JK Rowling is disgusting TERF and also seem dumb as fuck, but I personally never had too much trouble separating the art from the artist. Even more than that, I can enjoy books that have shitty politics.
Pale Fire has amazingly bad politics and it's of my favorite books ever.
I love The Master and Margarita and that book is borderline antisemitic at times.

It won't make me defend that author or the shitty politics, but I don't think enjoying someone's art means endorsement of their politics. It's not to me at least.

 

[Princess Viola]

Yeah I always give a side-eye to people who make that excuse, especially for modern works where the creators are still alive and still making money off it, just screams 'doesn't actually care about issues to make any changes to what they consume'

I can give a bit more leeway if it's someone who's long dead and rotting but if you try to dismiss or ignore discussion about that someone's views and their relation to their works? Back to the side-eye.

(Also love how we've already got the 'WHAT ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER' types in this thread as if there's no difference between 'a basic piece of technology needed to survive in the modern world' and 'work of fiction created by a massive bigot that you can literally do without')

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

also, rediscovering the problems the books have...

is very much like diving into Voldemort's old diary, isn't it? The author pops out of the book and starts blurting out some bigoted shit

 

[lowmelody]

Word, OP.

*brains fall out of ear*

If you care about THIS then you would also have to care about THAT! Ah ha checkmate! I'm so smart.

 

[Mona]

im not sure lovecraft could have invented cosmic horror if he wasn't terrified of others

so thats an example imo of a work where the greatest idiosyncrasies are directly tied to the author's issues

 

[Deleted member 5334]

I don't really care about Harry Potter either way, and I think anyone giving trans people shit can go to hell.

But on the subject of separating the art from the artist, here's a question for you OP: what computer, laptop, tablet, or phone did you make this thread on?

Click to shrink...

You know EXACTLY where I (and most people) stand on this issue and this what-about-ism is absolutely NOT okay here. Literally, do NOT do this.

 

[RDreamer]

I think you can separate art from artist on occasion, but you can't really separate business from them. If you're actively giving to someone that's using their platform to oppress or funneling that money to that end then yeah of course you cannot separate that. If an artist is long dead or their contracts are up and they make squat then that's a bit different. Well, unless the art itself is problematic.

 

[lowmelody]

I don't really care about Harry Potter either way, and I think anyone giving trans people shit can go to hell.

But on the subject of separating the art from the artist, here's a question for you OP: what computer, laptop, tablet, or phone did you make this thread on?

Click to shrink...

This kind of whatabout trash should stay at GAF or the gaming side.

 

[MonoStable]

I'd imagine you wouldn't really be able to enjoy anything if you didn't do so. Even things that you think you can enjoy now may be ruined some day in the future by the artists saying something stupid, or even yet there could be artists that hold abhorrent views and just stay quiet about them.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I don't really care about Harry Potter either way, and I think anyone giving trans people shit can go to hell.

But on the subject of separating the art from the artist, here's a question for you OP: what computer, laptop, tablet, or phone did you make this thread on?

Click to shrink...

Lmfao I'm surprised this dumb as fuck whataboutism took a whole 15 posts to appear.

 

[hordak]

Just because i like to watch House of Cards it doesn't mean I have to support Kevin Spacey.

 

[Deleted member 4034]

I never got the whole "separate the art from the artist" argument. In the case of HP, you'll be putting money in their pocket every time you purchase something HP themed. You're financing a bigot.

Click to shrink...

I mean, from a financial department, buying used was always the easy out there.

 

[Deleted member 62221]

So if I cannot separate the art from the artist then I need to accept that good art can come from bigotry? do I need to accept that books like the Hyperion Cantos and Lovecraft's work are good because they came from bigoted/crazy minds?

 

[Jebral]

Not trying to be a provocateur here, I know that she can't help but let dumb and offensive shit fall out of her mouth at a steady clip, I'd just like to know how these views represented in her work? I really don't have a clue what's present in those books to take offense at (not saying it isn't there, mind you).

 

[GurrenSwagann]

I think if people want to play/watch/read something just because they want to without taking into account the questionable stuff said by the creator, they should just get on with it and not try to come up with an excuse for it. It's not really helping anybody

 

[AcademicSaucer]

This kind of whatabout trash should stay at GAF or the gaming side.

Click to shrink...

that "this side is better than the gaming side" shit didn't stay at GAF tho

 

[CaviarMeths]

So if I cannot separate the art from the artist then I need to accept that good art can come from bigotry? do I need to accept that books like the Hyperion Cantos and Lovecraft's work are good because they came from bigoted/crazy minds?

Click to shrink...

What?

Good art can come from bad people. That's not the question being asked at all. This misses the point even more than "but what about iPhones lol got 'em."

 

[Toxi]

All I know is that getting upset at people for canceling or not canceling a specific product in the wretched tapestry of capitalism is not a productive or healthy endeavor.

 

[Deleted member 925]

I've seen so many people label themselves as allies on Era but don't back up those claims. They still hand wave transphobia by artists they look up to, go out and buy that fast food chicken, and play certain japanese RPGs.

They can go fuck themselves. People try to be woke but are fake. Happy Pride Month!

 

[ZeoVGM]

This kind of whatabout trash should stay at GAF or the gaming side.

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure you've looked at GAF lately (nor should you, to be fair) if you think it's simply that attitude and/or matches up with Era's gaming side.

GAF's response to this would be making fun of trans men and women.

 

[Mike Works]

You know EXACTLY where I (and most people) stand on this issue and this what-about-ism is absolutely NOT okay here. Literally, do NOT do this.

Click to shrink...

I don't know who you are, I have no idea where you stand on this issue, apart from what you've posted in your OP.

The world ain't black and white. I'm more than fine with condemning JK Rowling and her current and future books. But I also see the merit in enjoying them for what they are while reading them with the knowledge that the author is a bigot. If it weren't for the Harry Potter series, we might not have awesome people like Emma Watson and Daniel Radcliffe being given a platform to stand up for trans people and voices.

Evaluating art and the artist is a continuing, ongoing conversation. We're seeing that with Disney+ where some titles are banned from the service, others have been edited, others come with a warning, and others are left untouched.

Personally, I've always had an issue with the whole slavery shit in the Harry Potter series.

 

[Watchtower]

Fucking Christ is this thread turning into a goddamn honeypot.

It's supposed to be about art criticism, whether or not a work of art should be judged in the context of the artist's personal views. Does an author's horrific views change the subtext of the narrative? It's something to consider when evaluating art.

Click to shrink...

"Separating art from artist" doesn't mean willfully financing awful people. It means that the work can stand on it's own without the author or their baggage.

Click to shrink...

These. Hell, in terms of "separating art from artist" I consider the topic of Orson Scott Card to be significantly more interesting.

Using it as a alternative to "no ethical consumption under capitalism" is just being lazy and dishonest. I'd tell you what you should do if that really concerned you but it'd get my ass banned.

 

[JCG]

People definitely shouldn't wave that argument in the faces of those who are being threatened or attacked by the author.

If anyone wants to enjoy problematic media content (not exactly this specific case, as far as I can tell) and/or media with very problematic authors (which does directly apply to the creator in question), then they really should do so quietly and without reacting so defensively, instead of apparently trying to shut up or diminish the criticisms in question.

I never cared about Harry Potter as a property, mostly because I was a little too old to get into it, nor did I have any prior interest in the game. The creator's clear transphobia only makes it even easier for me to condemn her and continue ignoring everything related to this fictional universe. But if I was ever curious, at a distant point in the future, then I'd seriously consider resorting to piracy (or other ways of consumption where the author gets zero money).

 

[ZeoVGM]

I've seen so many people label themselves as allies on Era but don't back up those claims. They still hand wave transphobia by artists they look up to, go out and buy that fast food chicken, and play certain japanese RPGs.

They can go fuck themselves. People try to be woke but are fake. Happy Pride Month!

Click to shrink...

To clarify: do you think if someone buys the Harry Potter game, they are handwaving transphobia?

 

[Deleted member 62221]

What?

Good art can come from bad people. That's not the question being asked at all. This misses the point even more than "but what about iPhones lol got 'em."

Click to shrink...

Then what's the point? you just don't like the phrase or you really want to start a debate if it's possible to separate art from the artist?

 

[Orb]

There are levels to it and I don't think you can make blanket rules that apply to this stuff.

In this particular case, buying Harry Potter shit pretty much directly puts money in a bigot's pocket, and you probably shouldn't do that.

But if you take these ideas to their logical end, you basically can't buy anything in modern society without hurting someone, often in far more direct and extreme ways than giving money to a person with shitty views.

 

[Deleted member 5334]

To clarify: do you think if someone buys the Harry Potter game, they are handwaving transphobia?

Click to shrink...

Yes. To otherwise not think so, is literally a very privileged view.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Yes.

Click to shrink...

so the millions of Harry Potter fans are handwaving transphobia because of the views of the writer?

 

[lowmelody]

that "this side is better than the gaming side" shit didn't stay at GAF tho

Click to shrink...

I was under the delusion that the gaming side was filled with more entertainment based, nothing really matters except fun nihilism but this thread doing it's best to break it. *shrug*

 

[Deleted member 62221]

Yes. To otherwise not think so, is literally a very privileged view.

Click to shrink...

Does that apply to every art produced by bigots? alive or not?