Raxus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,688
If anyone gets killed it will be Eddie or Eleven. The town will never accept Eddie isn't the murderer, unless Eleven goes all Stephen King in front of everyone and gets blamed for everything as being the devil incarnate. I could see Eddie sacrificing himself to save everyone as he has no family and sees himself as a coward, so that would be his heroic act and he'd take the blame with himself to the grave.
The crew loves its needs however and Eddie seems to be giving off "joining the main cast vibes. He is still very expendable but it is a slight bummer to have another character introduced to die the very same season.

0 chance eleven dies. Too many plot threads tied to her.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Finished episode 7. I really like everything in Hawkins, while simultaneously disliking almost everything else. This show didn't need to be this sprawling.

Wouldn't surprise me this decision was made to have multiple concurrent film crews. The more often the characters are together the more difficult it is to coordinate the production, the cast was already too big by the end of S3, and they had no way to just write out characters for the start of this season, so this was the result. Add the pandemic on top.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,790
The
If anyone gets killed it will be Eddie or Eleven. The town will never accept Eddie isn't the murderer, unless Eleven goes all Stephen King in front of everyone and gets blamed for everything as being the devil incarnate. I could see Eddie sacrificing himself to save everyone as he has no family and sees himself as a coward, so that would be his heroic act and he'd take the blame with himself to the grave.

But of course that would leave him up to come back anyway like they did with Hoper.
If they are killing a main character, it won't be till next season. I don't see Eleven dying because they already did a fake death in season 1.
 
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Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,899
the wilderness
Joyce and Murray literally survive a plane crash in episode five. Broadly speaking this show treats its main ensemble like they are indestructible.

Also Brenner just happens to be alive right now and we ain't even discussing it. 😂

Oh... Well, the show always had an adventure tone like that. And can you imagine if they had simply killed one of the main characters during that plane crash scene? It would have been so dissonant with the rest of the show, people would have been so mad! lol!

As for Brenner being alive, I don't feel it's surprising at all. They've been preparing his return since season 2.
 
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CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,790
Oh... Well, the show always had an adventurous tone like that. And can you imagine if they had simply killed one of the main character during that plane crash scene? It would have been so dissonant with the rest of the show, people would have been so mad! lol!

As for Brenner being alive, I don't feel it's surprising at all. They've been preparing his return since season 2.
Since season 1, the whole reason they didn't show his death was to bring him back, accroding to the Duffers.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
The

If they are killing a main character, it won't be till next season. I don't see Eleven dying because they already did a fake death in season 1.

I feel like
001 talking about remaking the world to their liking implies someone will end up permanently in 001's place, becoming essentially the "dungeon master" that will fuel paranormal phenomenons in future shows. The so-called mind-flayer might literally be one of kids having turned the world, or at least Hawkins, into a D&D game. But I don't see a pathway to Will or Eddie becoming that character, and can't imagine it would fit with anyone else.

Maybe if Eddie really gets blamed for the murders by the town and goes sort of mad as he has no way out.
 

refusi0n1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,962
not feeling the eleven
retcon. liked it more when she was the one that went tetsuo at the lab
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,595
I feel like I'm one of the few people who really don't want any of the main cast to die. I hate character deaths.
 
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Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,899
the wilderness
I feel like I'm one of the few people who really don't want any of the main cast to die. I hate character deaths.

I don't either, it's not Game of Thrones. And all these characters are the heart of the show, it's why it's so good. So many things can go wrong for them without having to necessarily resort to the death of a character. There are so many other creative things to do besides killing one of them.

I'm not opposed to someone dying if it feels earned, though. Like this season, if Max had died during episode 4 I think it would have felt earned. It would have also completely wrecked me, lol!

That said, I wonder what Ross Duffer is alluding to here 😬

Millie has said that you need to kill more characters. Can we expect more deaths in the back half of the season, or are you giving us a reprieve at this point?

RD:
I don't really want to say, but I would be concerned about the characters going into Volume 2, for sure. I hope that that is sort of the sense, because it is a darker season and the kids are no longer kids. So everybody is in danger. And there's sort of an ominous feeling that things might not go well. Now, whether they do or not, you'll have to watch.

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Creators Answer Burning Questions About Eleven’s Origins, Will’s Sexuality (and Birthday!) and More Ahead of Volume 2

"Stranger Things" creators the Duffer Brothers answers burning questions about the "Stranger Things 4" Volume 1 finale.
 
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hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,569
I feel like I'm one of the few people who really don't want any of the main cast to die. I hate character deaths.
I'm with you, and I think a lot of people are. There was a discussion about this a few days ago in here, and personally I'm on the side where I dislike that modern TV has conditioned people into thinking that there needs to be character deaths to progress the plot.

I think it's also a byproduct of this show in particular and how it has gotten more mature / darker as the seasons have gone on and the characters have grown up. The violence is getting more graphic and people are starting to expect characters to die as a result, which on one hand I get to some extent, but at the same time if the story is compelling then main characters don't have to die to keep it compelling.

I think ST has always done a good job of having intense sequences and plotlines that still have high stakes because of the circumstances the characters end up in during/afterwards, rather than just killing them off. It wouldn't surprise me too much if a main character or two dies in Part 2, but I don't think they have to do it either.
 
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Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,899
the wilderness
I'm with you, and I think a lot of people are. There was a discussion about this a few days ago in here, and personally I'm on the side where I dislike that modern TV has conditioned people into thinking that there needs to be character deaths to progress the plot.

I think it's also a byproduct of this show in particular and how it has gotten more mature / darker as the seasons have gone on and the characters have grown up. The violence is getting more graphic and people are starting to expect characters to die as a result, which on one hand I get to some extent, but at the same time if the story is compelling then main characters don't have to die to keep it compelling.

I think ST has always done a good job of having intense sequences and plotlines that still have high stakes because of the circumstances the characters end up in during/afterwards, rather than just killing them off. It wouldn't surprise me too much if a main character or two dies in Part 2, but I don't think they have to do it either.

I agree so much!
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Did I miss something or was it hinted that
001 had been sexually molested or some such as a kid? I forget what he said about horrible things having been done to him. Maybe it was experiments?

Maybe the origin of the powers will be explained.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,700
Did I miss something or was it hinted that
001 had been sexually molested or some such as a kid? I forget what he said about horrible things having been done to him. Maybe it was experiments?

Maybe the origin of the powers will be explained.

Didn't get that hint at all.

I believe the implication was after Brenner got him.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,488
I'm a bit late to the party as I've not had time nor desire to sit down and watch much TV these last few weeks. Well just binged the first four episodes after watching the first when it first came out. Gotta say so far this is quite possibly the strongest season after the first. We've had everything from touching heart to hearts with a lot of characters that honestly felt really earnest and real while also turning up the horror elements to 11 and making it all work. Even juggling like half a dozen interweaving plot threads pretty well at that. This with a really sleek presentation that makes this one of the better things I've watched lately outside of Severance season 1 and some other amazing shows.

I'm trying to not watch the rest of the season tonight with work early tomorrow but I'm fiending hard. Also I gotta say I love Eddie Munson. Great addition to the cast. I'm a bit more mixed on Argyle and of course its fucking awesome having Robert Englund doing his thing. Can I also say I really appreciate characters actually talking to one another instead of going the easy out in writing and having most of the conflict happen because no one talks to one another even when they're just sitting around doing nothing.
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
Man through 5 episodes there seems to be 3 major plotline.

One of them is amazing, one of them is okay and the other Is downright terrible.

Not sure how I feel on the show as a whole because the terrible parts are almost ruining the great parts
 
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Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
He explains it in his monologue during episode 7. From what he says, he's a psychopath. Can't relate to others, can't relate to normal human emotions, can't relate to normal human behaviors, etc.

I see, didn't realize it took that angle, thought they were hiding some previous trauma.
I wonder what they'll do with him, I could totally see Nancy ending up back in time and helping him out with his mental issues, but in doing so she changes the timeline…
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,217
I see, didn't realize it took that angle, thought they were hiding some previous trauma.
I wonder what they'll do with him, I could totally see Nancy ending up back in time and helping him out with his mental issues, but in doing so she changes the timeline…

I don't really think they're going to go the full-on time travel route. That doesn't really feel like what they're going for here.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
I don't really think they're going to go the full-on time travel route. That doesn't really feel like what they're going for here.

I guess not, but I have to think that
Nancy seeing his life means she will be involved in saving his kid-past-self somehow.

They didn't do this for nothing and won't condemn a kid as just evil.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,569
I could see some time travel elements coming into play, but not in a super flashy Back to the Future type of way or anything. They kind of seem to be hinting at it a bit with how Nancy's house in the Upside Down was frozen in time to the day Will went missing. There's definitely going to be some payoff with that and the Duffers have mentioned as much in a recent interview:

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Creators Answer Burning Questions About Eleven’s Origins, Will’s Sexuality (and Birthday!) and More Ahead of Volume 2

"Stranger Things" creators the Duffer Brothers answers burning questions about the "Stranger Things 4" Volume 1 finale.

Variety: "This is purely me trying to figure out if this is something I didn't understand or catch — but why did time in the Upside Down freeze on the day Will was taken by the demogorgon and why hasn't it started back up?"

Matt Duffer:
"That is a very good question. That is actually one of the few questions that we've raised this season that isn't going to get answered in Volume 2. But that's setting the stage for some big reveals in our final season. We've said this before, but Netflix, midway through Season 1, they went, "Can you just please explain to us what the Upside Down is, and where these monsters are coming from — all of this stuff?" So we wrote this document — we spent like a week with our writers just writing out all the mythology and that really is where we really defined what the Upside Down was and where these monsters were coming from and what it all meant. And so this season, we are giving the audience a lot of information, but there's still mysteries about the Upside Down, and that is a big one. But we really wanted to hint at it this season because it's going to play such a huge role moving…"

Ross Duffer: "You do learn more in Volume 2."
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,217
I could see some time travel elements coming into play, but not in a super flashy Back to the Future type of way or anything. They kind of seem to be hinting at it a bit with how Nancy's house in the Upside Down was frozen in time to the day Will went missing. There's definitely going to be some payoff with that and the Duffers have mentioned as much in a recent interview:

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Creators Answer Burning Questions About Eleven’s Origins, Will’s Sexuality (and Birthday!) and More Ahead of Volume 2

"Stranger Things" creators the Duffer Brothers answers burning questions about the "Stranger Things 4" Volume 1 finale.

Variety: "This is purely me trying to figure out if this is something I didn't understand or catch — but why did time in the Upside Down freeze on the day Will was taken by the demogorgon and why hasn't it started back up?"

Matt Duffer:
"That is a very good question. That is actually one of the few questions that we've raised this season that isn't going to get answered in Volume 2. But that's setting the stage for some big reveals in our final season. We've said this before, but Netflix, midway through Season 1, they went, "Can you just please explain to us what the Upside Down is, and where these monsters are coming from — all of this stuff?" So we wrote this document — we spent like a week with our writers just writing out all the mythology and that really is where we really defined what the Upside Down was and where these monsters were coming from and what it all meant. And so this season, we are giving the audience a lot of information, but there's still mysteries about the Upside Down, and that is a big one. But we really wanted to hint at it this season because it's going to play such a huge role moving…"

Ross Duffer: "You do learn more in Volume 2."

I don't think it's time travel in the sense we're thinking. I think it's specifically that the Upside Down version of Hawkins was created on the day that Eleven made contact with the Mind Flayer. It isn't actually a mirror of the real world, it's a decaying SNAPSHOT of the exact moment in time Eleven first made contact.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,790
I could see some time travel elements coming into play, but not in a super flashy Back to the Future type of way or anything. They kind of seem to be hinting at it a bit with how Nancy's house in the Upside Down was frozen in time to the day Will went missing. There's definitely going to be some payoff with that and the Duffers have mentioned as much in a recent interview:

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Creators Answer Burning Questions About Eleven’s Origins, Will’s Sexuality (and Birthday!) and More Ahead of Volume 2

"Stranger Things" creators the Duffer Brothers answers burning questions about the "Stranger Things 4" Volume 1 finale.

Variety: "This is purely me trying to figure out if this is something I didn't understand or catch — but why did time in the Upside Down freeze on the day Will was taken by the demogorgon and why hasn't it started back up?"

Matt Duffer:
"That is a very good question. That is actually one of the few questions that we've raised this season that isn't going to get answered in Volume 2. But that's setting the stage for some big reveals in our final season. We've said this before, but Netflix, midway through Season 1, they went, "Can you just please explain to us what the Upside Down is, and where these monsters are coming from — all of this stuff?" So we wrote this document — we spent like a week with our writers just writing out all the mythology and that really is where we really defined what the Upside Down was and where these monsters were coming from and what it all meant. And so this season, we are giving the audience a lot of information, but there's still mysteries about the Upside Down, and that is a big one. But we really wanted to hint at it this season because it's going to play such a huge role moving…"

Ross Duffer: "You do learn more in Volume 2."
This is why I don't think Vecna made the UD. It wouldn't be much of a surprise if Vecna made it all.
 

Ashodin

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,716
Durham, NC
I could see some time travel elements coming into play, but not in a super flashy Back to the Future type of way or anything. They kind of seem to be hinting at it a bit with how Nancy's house in the Upside Down was frozen in time to the day Will went missing. There's definitely going to be some payoff with that and the Duffers have mentioned as much in a recent interview:

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Creators Answer Burning Questions About Eleven’s Origins, Will’s Sexuality (and Birthday!) and More Ahead of Volume 2

"Stranger Things" creators the Duffer Brothers answers burning questions about the "Stranger Things 4" Volume 1 finale.

Variety: "This is purely me trying to figure out if this is something I didn't understand or catch — but why did time in the Upside Down freeze on the day Will was taken by the demogorgon and why hasn't it started back up?"

Matt Duffer:
"That is a very good question. That is actually one of the few questions that we've raised this season that isn't going to get answered in Volume 2. But that's setting the stage for some big reveals in our final season. We've said this before, but Netflix, midway through Season 1, they went, "Can you just please explain to us what the Upside Down is, and where these monsters are coming from — all of this stuff?" So we wrote this document — we spent like a week with our writers just writing out all the mythology and that really is where we really defined what the Upside Down was and where these monsters were coming from and what it all meant. And so this season, we are giving the audience a lot of information, but there's still mysteries about the Upside Down, and that is a big one. But we really wanted to hint at it this season because it's going to play such a huge role moving…"

Ross Duffer: "You do learn more in Volume 2."
yooo this gives me hope they will stick the landing in V2 and Season 5
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
I could see some time travel elements coming into play, but not in a super flashy Back to the Future type of way or anything. They kind of seem to be hinting at it a bit with how Nancy's house in the Upside Down was frozen in time to the day Will went missing. There's definitely going to be some payoff with that and the Duffers have mentioned as much in a recent interview:

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Creators Answer Burning Questions About Eleven’s Origins, Will’s Sexuality (and Birthday!) and More Ahead of Volume 2

"Stranger Things" creators the Duffer Brothers answers burning questions about the "Stranger Things 4" Volume 1 finale.

Variety: "This is purely me trying to figure out if this is something I didn't understand or catch — but why did time in the Upside Down freeze on the day Will was taken by the demogorgon and why hasn't it started back up?"

Matt Duffer:
"That is a very good question. That is actually one of the few questions that we've raised this season that isn't going to get answered in Volume 2. But that's setting the stage for some big reveals in our final season. We've said this before, but Netflix, midway through Season 1, they went, "Can you just please explain to us what the Upside Down is, and where these monsters are coming from — all of this stuff?" So we wrote this document — we spent like a week with our writers just writing out all the mythology and that really is where we really defined what the Upside Down was and where these monsters were coming from and what it all meant. And so this season, we are giving the audience a lot of information, but there's still mysteries about the Upside Down, and that is a big one. But we really wanted to hint at it this season because it's going to play such a huge role moving…"

Ross Duffer: "You do learn more in Volume 2."

It all ties back to Will.

It's in his name.

Rewatch the beginning of S1. They are playing D&D and the dice falls away and the game is stopped by the mother because it's late.

When Will leaves, he tells Mike what the number on the dice was. « It was a seven. The demigorgon… he got me. »

I bet the end of the show was filmed in s1, it's why the dad was having trouble with the TV, some time changing anomaly took place. It won't be a seven, it will be a thirteen, and as such the demigorgon was defeated.
 

Chitown B

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
9,684
Didn't see that coming until the last episode. I didn't remember Eleven thinking she killed everyone in earlier seasons though.
 

Chitown B

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
9,684
It all ties back to Will.

It's in his name.

Rewatch the beginning of S1. They are playing D&D and the dice falls away and the game is stopped by the mother because it's late.

When Will leaves, he tells Mike what the number on the dice was. « It was a seven. The demigorgon… he got me. »

I bet the end of the show was filmed in s1, it's why the dad was having trouble with the TV, some time changing anomaly took place. It won't be a seven, it will be a thirteen, and as such the demigorgon was defeated.

that's pretty smart right there.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
that's pretty smart right there.

It could be that Will will remember everything they went through. He tells Sinclair it's a seven but Sinclair asks if Mike knows, Will says no, and Sinclair says that then it doesn't count.

I could see Will lie to Mike, say it was 13. He'd eventually paint a painting of all the friends together, even if they aren't yet all friends in this new timeline.

Hell, this could even play on how angry Will was at Eleven lying to Will. It was Eleven really trying to shape a happy future into reality, just like he now would in the new timeline.

Anyway just some ideas, who knows.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,569
It all ties back to Will.

It's in his name.

Rewatch the beginning of S1. They are playing D&D and the dice falls away and the game is stopped by the mother because it's late.

When Will leaves, he tells Mike what the number on the dice was. « It was a seven. The demigorgon… he got me. »

I bet the end of the show was filmed in s1, it's why the dad was having trouble with the TV, some time changing anomaly took place. It won't be a seven, it will be a thirteen, and as such the demigorgon was defeated.

Yeah I mean the D&D theory has been floating around ever since S1 and I do like the idea of it to some extent, but at the same time I feel like it'd take some masterful writing to pull it off in the final season without it coming off too hokey. I feel like it'd veer too close to the "it was all a dream" trope but in the context of the D&D game instead. Personally I'd rather them not go that direction, but we'll see what happens lol.
 

Chitown B

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
9,684
Finished episode 7. I really like everything in Hawkins, while simultaneously disliking almost everything else. This show didn't need to be this sprawling.

Interesting. I like the bouncing between groups. I think this could be partly because the eps are so long, it gives me a break between settings, and lets me switch and have a completely different experience for a bit, and then move to another story, and so on. Eventually they'll all converge.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Yeah I mean the D&D theory has been floating ever since S1 and I do like the idea of it to some extent, but at the same time I feel like it'd take some masterful writing to pull it off in the final season without it coming off too hokey. I feel like it'd veer too close to the "it was all a dream" trope but in the context of the D&D game instead. Personally I'd rather them not go that direction, but we'll see what happens lol.

If they have secretly been filming the show's last episode set in a new timeline, all the while filming each seasons, so you would get the final episode made of footage filmed years ago when they were still kids, it would go down in tv history as fricking genius.

We did see the demo do anything other than jump on him. It cut away right after.

Since they keep repeating how he is all about control, I bet it will be explained that he had control over them through Vecna or something.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,569
ok but it was assumed by all. No one could have survived that. Feels like they later decided that they didn't want him to be dead.

If you go back and watch that scene, you'll see
a few other soldiers with guns still alive next to him when the demogorgon pounces. The demogorgon ignores the soldiers and goes right for Brenner. My assumption is they distracted it briefly by firing at it before it could do any real damage to Brenner and he managed to escape.

Though to be fair, I expected him to show up with a bit more than a single scar haha.
 

Chitown B

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
9,684
If you go back and watch that scene, you'll see
a few other soldiers with guns still alive next to him when the demogorgon pounces. The demogorgon ignores the soldiers and goes right for Brenner. My assumption is they distracted it briefly before it could do any real damage to Brenner and he managed to escape.

Though to be fair, I expected him to show up with a bit more than a single scar haha.

I still feel like it's a cop out so they could use him again, but if they had the entire plot planned out already then I will take it back. He just seemed to be back this season with no explanation and no one was surprised. I mean Eleven was but I just didn't see Owens keeping all that a secret in and since S2.
 

davepoobond

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,819
www.squackle.com
This is such a great season. Finally finished what is out so far today

It's a really ambitious season with these different storylines that are going to come back around again. Hopper and Joyce's storyline feels like the most filler while the Will/Finn story became filler when they linked up with the weird singing girl (still not sure why she is a character they think they needed)
 

thisismadness

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,492
I still feel like it's a cop out so they could use him again, but if they had the entire plot planned out already then I will take it back. He just seemed to be back this season with no explanation and no one was surprised. I mean Eleven was but I just didn't see Owens keeping all that a secret in and since S2.

The fact that they cut away during Brenner's "death" was always proof to me that he was not dead... in a series all about homages, that had to be deliberate. Although, I did start to think he really might be dead since I expected him to re-emerge in season 2 or 3.
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,683
I swear to god the writers really made me wanna strangle every single new characters in this season.
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,697
I think with the Upside Down effectively being

stuck in time from Will's abduction then does it not stand to reason he created it as it is now along with the monsters within? The monsters all being from D&D being created from his mind being in the Upside Down? The Upside down prior to his abduction could have been something else and some other entity powering it but through Will's mind it was given the form it has now?
 

Heynongman!

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,954
I think with the Upside Down effectively being

stuck in time from Will's abduction then does it not stand to reason he created it as it is now along with the monsters within? The monsters all being from D&D being created from his mind being in the Upside Down? The Upside down prior to his abduction could have been something else and some other entity powering it but through Will's mind it was given the form it has now?
I don't think this is the case. The monsters are not actually from dnd at all. They're just given dnd shorthand names by the kids. The demogorgon for instance is a massive multiheaded demon prince of unfathomable power - basically a level 20 final boss threat, could end the world if released, and he's the only one so Demogorgon is his name and Demon is his species. The mind flayer is a human sized squid headed intelligent humanoid that serves an elder brain and has psionic abilities - by comparison they're for like a level 5 party at most. Vecna is a lich missing his left eye and left hand and he can cast spells because he's a wizard - also a level 20 final boss.

They just use whatever name is relevant to their current dnd campaign for these creatures. Also Will likely wouldn't know who or what Vecna is at the creation of the Hawkins upside down. Also the mind flayer exhibits more characteristics of an Intellect Devourer (basically a mind flayer lackey that can replace your brain with its brain) but I think the show creators figured mind flayer is easier to say and more mysterious.
 
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