Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
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Oct 28, 2017
15,895
she will definitely be back. they keep alluding to her and she was the bad memory that helped Eleven get her powers back.
Ehhh the bad memory was her mother I think, it was just reused footage that showed Eight as well.

Speaking of how exactly did Eight escape?

Also I'm just discovering from the wiki that in the comic series there are actually 3 more test subjects still alive, Three, Nine and 9.5 (the twin of Nine but doesn't actually have powers???)
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
9,710
Ehhh the bad memory was her mother I think, it was just reused footage that showed Eight as well.

Speaking of how exactly did Eight escape?

Also I'm just discovering from the wiki that in the comic series there are actually 3 more test subjects still alive, Three, Nine and 9.5 (the twin of Nine but doesn't actually have powers???)

they showed when they came to take away 8. and then they showed when Terry came to try to take Eleven away.
 

hydruxo

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Oct 25, 2017
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To be fair there's a time jump every season haha. It's just a matter of how big the jump is for S5.

Hopefully it isn't too jarring since there will likely be more plot urgency between the S4 finale and the beginning of S5.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
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Oct 28, 2017
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I'd put money on it going straight to the gang's senior year
 

hydruxo

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Oct 25, 2017
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I mean I was thinking you could literally jump to modern day with the characters reuniting in a final episode epilogue.

That's one of those things that sounds cool on paper until you think about it for a minute. You'd have to either cast completely new people to play the older versions of characters like IT Chapter Two (which would be a way bigger undertaking for ST since there's a much larger cast), try and make them look older with makeup and shit which wouldn't really work for the younger cast, or a mix of both. I just feel like it'd probably end up being hokey if they did any of that. If they do an epilogue I honestly don't think they'll go any further than 5 years out, maaaaaybe 10 but no more than that. That way they could just keep the cast around.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
To be fair there's a time jump every season haha. It's just a matter of how big the jump is for S5.

Hopefully it isn't too jarring since there will likely be more plot urgency between the S4 finale and the beginning of S5.

Unless there is a timeline shenanigan that wipes out everything that happened because Nancy cures the kid from being evil in the past.

So the last season would be set in the new timeline where all the previous seasons never happened.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
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Oct 28, 2017
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Unless there is a timeline shenanigan that wipes out everything that happened because Nancy cures the kid from being evil in the past.

So the last season would be set in the new timeline where all the previous seasons never happened.
Please god nothing time travel

in anything ever again
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
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Oct 25, 2017
118,076


I am now increasingly convinced several characters are going to die (or be written out of the show for reasons) in 4.2. Time jumping more than a couple of years would mean the teen characters would have mostly gone off to college, and it would be difficult to contrive an excuse for everyone to come back to Hawkins for a whole season.

Eddie is probably too poor to afford college (if he survives the season) and who knows if Steve even wants to go, but beyond that I find it pretty difficult to believe Robin, Nancy or Jonathan would be coming back to the show unless they set it all around Christmas or something.

It would be nice to end stranger things at the end of the 80s.

They did say they want the show to end before the year Beetlejuice came out and Winona Ryder blew up in Hollywood, so it seems like 87/88 would be the hard stop point for this story at least.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
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That sure sounds like a time-travel-loop tagline!

Haha, you really want them to ruin the story with time travel, don't you?

"The end begins" is a pretty common tagline for stories that are starting their final lap but aren't actually over yet, honestly. I don't really get a time travel implication from it.
 

tripleg

Alt Account
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Jul 30, 2020
1,132
Haha, you really want them to ruin the story with time travel, don't you?

"The end begins" is a pretty common tagline for stories that are starting their final lap but aren't actually over yet, honestly. I don't really get a time travel implication from it.

Right but the tagline isn't "the end begins", it's "every ending has a beginning" which to me implies that the beginning has significance to the ending.

I can honestly see them wrapping this up by Eleven stopping herself from creating the first tear and somehow sacrificing herself to do so.

How else are they going to close the potential of the upside down always being an ever present threat?
 

Biggzy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,929
Right but the tagline isn't "the end begins", it's "every ending has a beginning" which to me implies that the beginning has significance to the ending.

I can honestly see them wrapping this up by Eleven stopping herself from creating the first tear and somehow sacrificing herself to do so.

How else are they going to close the potential of the upside down always being an ever present threat?

Could be. We found out this season that the upside down can create its own portals, which is a bit of a game changer really and requires the group to find a permanent solution.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Haha, you really want them to ruin the story with time travel, don't you?

"The end begins" is a pretty common tagline for stories that are starting their final lap but aren't actually over yet, honestly. I don't really get a time travel implication from it.

I mean this season has a grandfather clock as one of its main symbols, the upside down looks like how Hawkins did on the day Will disappeared, and Vecna even went "It wasn't supposed to go this way" or some such as if he saw the timeline change suddenly when El overpowered him.

I think the upside-down is literally a parallel universe that will resume when the current universe is destroyed, which will be the start of a new timeline where all this mess didn't happen. Everyone will die, but El will "kickstart" the parallel universe so no one will actually be dead, she will have saved everyone, and it becomes the new "current" universe.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
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Right but the tagline isn't "the end begins", it's "every ending has a beginning" which to me implies that the beginning has significance to the ending.

I can honestly see them wrapping this up by Eleven stopping herself from creating the first tear and somehow sacrificing herself to do so.

How else are they going to close the potential of the upside down always being an ever present threat?

It's effectively the exact same sentiment, just worded differently to sound more clever.

It's important to note that we have yet to see any actual time travel at this point, just memory viewing and illusion casting. I don't think you can cram time travel into a story like this at the eleventh hour and have it work. Stories fundamentally shatter like glass when you try to force time travel into them unless you wrote them to be about time travel from the very beginning.

Like if Eleven was going back in time to close the original portal, what good would that do aside from negating the entire journey everyone has been on up to that point? Keep in mind, the first tear didn't even create the Upside Down, all it did was send 001 into it. Then later on, she made another portal under Brenner's instruction and then another one when she connected with the Mind Flayer for the first time the same day Will disappeared.

The Upside Down only became a "threat" per se when Brenner made El start fucking around with it. And having her go back in time and sacrifice herself (somehow) to stop that from happening would still likely result in One killing all the kids in the Hawkins Lab, and Vecna still being created. And who knows if he would've somehow found a way through the dimensional wall anyway? There's too many variables overall and there's no one fulcrum point that clearly represents "the moment everything became inescapably bad" - it took nearly five years for all that to pay off.

Realistically, I think the safest thing they can do for the story is just have the Mind Flayer's destruction be the end of it. The Upside Down is a hostile dimension, technically, but it's hostile because the Mind Flayer effectively controls it and is trying to encroach into the primary world. Once Vecna is knocked off the board and the Flayer is dealt with, the Upside Down is no longer an active threat to the world. It's still there, but nobody is capable of bridging the gap between worlds and there's nothing actually useful over there to justify jumping the barrier even if there was someone capable of doing so.

I mean this season has a grandfather clock as one of its main symbols, the upside down looks like how Hawkins did on the day Will disappeared, and Vecna even went "It wasn't supposed to go this way" or some such as if he saw the timeline change suddenly when El overpowered him.

I think the upside-down is literally a parallel universe that will resume when the current universe is destroyed, which will be the start of a new timeline where all this mess didn't happen.

Of course One didn't think it was going to "go this way", because he was confident that his power was enough to accomplish his goals, and he was surprised that even after absorbing the powers of the other test subjects Eleven was still stronger than he was in that moment. It was Vegeta being taken by surprise by the Kaioken Kamehameha.

At the end of the day, I just don't think "we made a new timeline where nothing bad happened" is a satisfying way to end a five-season serialized drama. It's cheap and lazy and makes the entire journey up to this point entirely meaningless.

And you really can't do spinoffs if you do a "we made a new timeline where nothing bad happened". I mean you could try, but nobody would care.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
It's effectively the exact same sentiment, just worded differently to sound more clever.

It's important to note that we have yet to see any actual time travel at this point, just memory viewing and illusion casting. I don't think you can cram time travel into a story like this at the eleventh hour and have it work. Stories fundamentally shatter like glass when you try to force time travel into them unless you wrote them to be about time travel from the very beginning.

Like if Eleven was going back in time to close the original portal, what good would that do aside from negating the entire journey everyone has been on up to that point? Keep in mind, the first tear didn't even create the Upside Down, all it did was send 001 into it. Then later on, she made another portal under Brenner's instruction and then another one when she connected with the Mind Flayer for the first time the same day Will disappeared.

The Upside Down only became a "threat" per se when Brenner made El start fucking around with it. And having her go back in time and sacrifice herself (somehow) to stop that from happening would still likely result in One killing all the kids in the Hawkins Lab, and Vecna still being created. And who knows if he would've somehow found a way through the dimensional wall anyway? There's too many variables overall and there's no one fulcrum point that clearly represents "the moment everything became inescapably bad" - it took nearly five years for all that to pay off.

Realistically, I think the safest thing they can do for the story is just have the Mind Flayer's destruction be the end of it. The Upside Down is a hostile dimension, technically, but it's hostile because the Mind Flayer effectively controls it and is trying to encroach into the primary world. Once Vecna is knocked off the board and the Flayer is dealt with, the Upside Down is no longer an active threat to the world. It's still there, but nobody is capable of bridging the gap between worlds and there's nothing actually useful over there to justify jumping the barrier even if there was someone capable of doing so.



Of course One didn't think it was going to "go this way", because he was confident that his power was enough to accomplish his goals, and he was surprised that even after absorbing the powers of the other test subjects Eleven was still stronger than he was in that moment. It was Vegeta being taken by surprise by the Kaioken Kamehameha.

At the end of the day, I just don't think "we made a new timeline where nothing bad happened" is a satisfying way to end a five-season serialized drama. It's cheap and lazy and makes the entire journey up to this point entirely meaningless.

And you really can't do spinoffs if you do a "we made a new timeline where nothing bad happened". I mean you could try, but nobody would care.

I don't know. To me this is like Bokurano. Knowing that there were countless parallel universes that could be wiped out from existence made it really difficult to not care about the protagonists, while at the same time making it really difficult to not empathize with the kids from every other universe.

I guess we'll see.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
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I don't know. To me this is like Bokurano. Knowing that there were countless parallel universes that could be wiped out from existence made it really difficult to not care about the protagonists, while at the same time making it really difficult to not empathize with the kids from every other universe.

I guess we'll see.

We shall. I can safely say for myself that a time travel ending would effectively ruin the entire show and make me feel like I wasted the better part of a decade caring about a show that destroyed itself in the last season, but the last long-running serialized show I cared about was Game of Thrones and look where that got me.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
Haha, you really want them to ruin the story with time travel, don't you?

"The end begins" is a pretty common tagline for stories that are starting their final lap but aren't actually over yet, honestly. I don't really get a time travel implication from it.
He did the same thing with the Game of Thrones thread. Posting the most outlandish theories and was certain they would happen.

None of them did.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
Right but the tagline isn't "the end begins", it's "every ending has a beginning" which to me implies that the beginning has significance to the ending.

I can honestly see them wrapping this up by Eleven stopping herself from creating the first tear and somehow sacrificing herself to do so.

How else are they going to close the potential of the upside down always being an ever present threat?
There are plenty of simple solutions like … destroying the upside down, converting the upside down, her taking over the upside down and choosing to exist there, etc.

The tagline might imply more or… you know it could just imply that this season explained a lot of origin elements. Which it did.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
35,040

I'm not expecting much out of this time jump. The Duffers have already put a hard cap on 1988 as the final year they're willing to depict in this show, and we're currently in March 1986 — 9 months removed from Starcourt. There's not a lot of room for leeway, especially given every season has had jumps in time between seasons.

The only thing this tells me is that season 5 won't take place immediately after 4, which has been the standard procedure up until now, and probably only feels significant because they've been billing this season as setup for the finale. That doesn't mean there can't be room for breakage between then though, and I still have my doubts that we're going to get too many big character deaths before season 5.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
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Have they? I only read about that Ryder/Beetlejuice-thing but that was totally a joke if you ask me.

I think they're half-serious about it. Obviously the kids' heads wouldn't actually explode if they saw young Winona at the movies but I think they do kind of want to avoid that weirdness.