Super Smash Bros. Community |OT| Reawaken the Undying Light

[CyberWolfBia]

I don't see Sakurai taking another project like Meteos or Kid Icarus, as much people want it; He also seems very comfortable on the position that he was given, since Smash is such an opportunity for him to take care of so many legendary IPs.. he's quite happy as where he is now.

But yeah, at very least, we can feel in the air that the next Smash started active development early last year.. not sure if I'm already ready to speculate on it (and left burned once more), but we're closer to it than we're not.

 

[batfax]

Yeah, probably. It's a possibility, but little else gives him as big of a toybox as Smash does. Why play with one thing when you can play with all the things, everywhere, at the same time?

Wow this is pretty exciting maybe.
I would assume that Nintendo would be going in guns blazing for a new console so a smash within 12 months of launch would make sense. Obviously it's just reading into things and speculation but a new smash is always cool and exciting and I would be wondering what a new one would and could even to do distinguish itself

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A new Smash in the first twelve months worked pretty well for Melee, so even if I doubt we'll get it that early it's really nice to dream. As for what it can do to distinguish itself, Smash's core appeal is that it only really has to keep getting bigger to be cool, but I also think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg for how far things like Spirits can go to provide new gameplay and give you characters to use in modes outside the typical Vs setup. Giving them bigger things to do with bigger rewards would go a long way in making Smash feel like even more of a ridiculous crossover by letting you send Geese Howard, Dr. Wright, I-Tetrimino, and Tamagon on adventures... but let you actually do stuff and give them abilities they can use instead of just waiting out a timer. Or maybe instead of an adventure, you build a town or something. Or both. Like Actraiser. Smashraiser.

Also still holding out hope for the idea of Smash Run to be revived and expanded. Easily the most fun side mode.

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

Reading some of the prior posts: I really don't think we will learn anything concrete about the development of the next Smash from Sakurai videos, beyond the potential timing when the project might have started (and that's still an estimate based on when Sakurai might have filmed the last batch).

Anything like trying to guess that they're planning an engine change based on the last video is trying to read too much into the tea leaves, I believe.

Let's not forget for that matter that this video series is Sakurai trying to pass his insights and knowledge as a game director to other developers, not a promotional tool for Smash.

 

[Melpomene]

Reading some of the prior posts: I really don't think we will learn anything concrete about the development of the next Smash from Sakurai videos, beyond the potential timing when the project might have started (and that's still an estimate based on when Sakurai might have filmed the last batch).

Anything like trying to guess that they're planning an engine change based on the last video is trying to read too much into the tea leaves, I believe.

Let's not forget for that matter that this video series is Sakurai trying to pass his insights and knowledge as a game director to other developers, not a promotional tool for Smash.

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I don't think you understand. Everything Sakurai does is a promotional tool for Smash. He eats breakfast in the morning, pets Fukura, goes for a walk, takes his lunch break (presumably for about ten minutes around 5PM), comes home at the end of the day, spends time with his wife, eats dinner, brushes his teeth, puts on his pajamas, goes to sleep. All of these things, they have something to tell us about Smash, if we just look closely enough.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Just recent rumors that a random staff member started working on something unannounced as early as the same month Sora released, which sounds about right if we consider how early Ultimate's project plan was drafted. Smash 4 was still receiving updates at the time Ultimate's plan was going. It gets a little weird when people stalk profiles like that though, so I'm not bothering to dig into it myself that much, but it's fun to think about the game being worked on in some capacity that far back, even if it was only on paper.

Beyond that, there's things like Studio S suddenly appearing with a recruitment page seeking contract hires for a side-view action game for Nintendo last year, which doesn't seem like something you'd do super early in development and would more likely be hiring for finishing things up that are already set in stone. Then there's Sakurai's uploads slowing down and seemingly filmed in batches rather than as a consistent and on-going process, the Switch 2 releasing this FY basically confirming that big projects having been in the works for a few years to go with its launch, the sudden introduction of new Spirit events earlier this year which implies at least a few people are back in the seats, Sakurai talking now about how he usually works with weaker hardware so he's maybe stating the obvious that other developers already know about needing a specialist for post-processing, so on, so forth. Lots of small nuggets that make things feel like they're happening.

Though "another smash is coming" has always been happening (just as there's always going to be another animal crossing, pokemon, or zelda), all the fervor of a new console confirmed for the FY makes it feel all the closer than usual. I guess we could also see something more like Uprising happening too, rather than a new Smash right away, but still.

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But it could be for different project that isn't smash-related.

If it's actually in works for long time then you can bet that it's definitely not Ultimate DX or an expansion for Ultimate. (but who knows. The title could ended up being it. )

 

[batfax]

Yeah, all that stuff is veeeery much reaching. "Reading tea leaves" is very apt, but hey, what else are doin' until the damn console is even revealed?

Aside from finding new characters and modes to hope for, of course. If Terry can become a KOF rep after Kyo or Iori potentially joins then Ryu, Ken, and Mega Man can be considered Versus Series reps when Ruby Heart gets in. She could have Sonson and Amingo as assists!

 

[HockeyBird]

Before Ultimate's release, I was hoping/expecting the new Zelda stage would be based on BOTW's Great Plateau and it would be basically be a modern version of Temple. A large stage to capture the feel of BOTW. So Ultimate arrives and let's say I was disappointed. I was just replaying the intro to TOTK and the Great Sky Island is an opportunity to finally make my hopes come true. Come on Sakurai and/or Nintendo, don't let me down. It's even already in the sky. It's perfectly made to be a stage in Smash Bros.

 

[ContractHolder]

Before Ultimate's release, I was hoping/expecting the new Zelda stage would be based on BOTW's Great Plateau and it would be basically be a modern version of Temple. A large stage to capture the feel of BOTW. So Ultimate arrives and let's say I was disappointed. I was just replaying the intro to TOTK and the Great Sky Island is an opportunity to finally make my hopes come true. Come on Sakurai and/or Nintendo, don't let me down. It's even already in the sky. It's perfectly made to be a stage in Smash Bros.

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To be fair, after Smash 4, I think they were dodging larger stages due to complaints that have been happening in 4 and Brawl.

 

[Twohearts]

To be fair, after Smash 4, I think they were dodging larger stages due to complaints that have been happening in 4 and Brawl.

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Great cave offensive was pretty offensive, but otherwise I like the biggger stages provided you don't play with dickheads, because they feel like little worlds. home they work something cool out for the next game

 

[batfax]

I personally love big stages. Also traveling stages. And stages with weird gimmicks. And ones that teleport from place to place. Simple stages is just one of the last things we need.

Personally, I don't think the problem with a lot of the big stages that people disliked isn't even so much that they're big compared to that they're kind of empty. Part of the appeal for Temple is that even though it's huge and has a lot of room to roam, it's also a stage where if you get knocked into any area besides the top one that the entire strategy changes. Even though I'm contractually obligated to love New Pork City as a late 90's-era MOTHER fan, that stage being so big and empty and having one of the least effective one-hit-kill hazards ever by virtue of it never even being near anyone during a match makes it easy to dismiss. At least Great Cave Offensive works beautifully in a "constant madness" sort of way with 8 players and all those extra hazards that can KO.

The tutorial area from TotK could certainly work out to something interesting with all its caves and islands going on, so maybe if we get that as the new Zelda stage it'll work out...

 

[ContractHolder]

I personally love big stages. Also traveling stages. And stages with weird gimmicks. And ones that teleport from place to place. Simple stages is just one of the last things we need.

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I'm with you. Honestly, the more a stage feels like I can put characters from other games in the actual video game world the better.

 

[HockeyBird]

To be fair, after Smash 4, I think they were dodging larger stages due to complaints that have been happening in 4 and Brawl.

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You need a good mix. Small stages, big stages, heavy hazard stages, light hazard stages, spectacle stages, and subdued stages. Variety is one of Smash's greatest strengths.

 

[jtmmachine]

The tutorial area from TotK could certainly work out to something interesting with all its caves and islands going on, so maybe if we get that as the new Zelda stage it'll work out...

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A massive 8-player stage that falls and embeds itself into the Depths, then is Recalled back up after a minute would be perfect and avoid typical "boring first grassy area" syndrome

 

[batfax]

Yeah, including both the depths and the sky would be the ideal thing a TotK stage could do. All kinds of hazards down there too, from Gloom to Yiga Clan bases and giant frogs and stuff. Would be super cool.

 

[Melpomene]

I feel like a cool TotK stage practically designs itself, honestly.

 

[Scrappy-Fan92]

While making progress with reuploading most of my Abload images, I came across my old Nintendo vs. Capcom roster from Sept. 2021. I've quoted the original post but converted the images so they (hopefully) aren't lost when Abload goes down in June.

So, on a lark I decided to draft up my own hypothetical Nintendo vs. Capcom roster built on the bones of Marvel vs. Capcom 2's roster. Please ignore the fact that Capcom would have to create 25+ new Nintendo character sprites over the course of several games for this idea to even remotely work. Keeping in spirit with the "theming," I decided to take a 1999 snapshot of where Nintendo was at the time, which meant I operated under the assumption that some Rare characters were fair game (did Nintendo ever own or co-own the rights to Killer Instinct?). I tried to use era-appropriate art when possible, though I had to cheat and use late 2000 art for Luigi when this game would have probably come out in early 2000. I'm as ashamed of myself as you are. The Capcom half isn't too different from what it was in MvC2, though Ruby Heart and Amingo are gone with established Capcom characters Ibuki and Nina -- who would also need newly made sprites in this hypothetical crossover -- taking their place. Dan, Guile, and Felicia have also been swapped out with Birdie, Cody, and Jon Talbain, respectively.

Spoiler: Roster here

Mario	Luigi	Peach	Toad	Bowser	Donkey Kong	Diddy Kong
King K. Rool	Yoshi	Wario	Capt. Syrup	Banjo & Kazooie	Link	Zelda
Impa	Ganondorf	Caeda	Seliph	Kirby	King Dedede	Pikachu
Charizard	Little Mac	Samus	Pit	Ayumi	Ness	Fox
Ryu	Ken	Birdie	Chun-Li	Zangief	Dhalsim	Cammy
Charlie	Sakura	Ibuki​	M. Bison	Akuma	Mega Man	Roll
Tron Bonne	Servbot	Morrigan	Jon Talbain	Anakaris	B.B. Hood	Jill
Cody	Capt. Commando	Strider Hiryu	Nina	Jin	Hayato	SonSon

No, you don't get to escape Fire Emblem characters in this hypothetically pre-Melee thought exercise. You do get to imagine who a pre-GBA Nintendo might position as the faces of the IP circa 2000, though. No, they would never have Caeda without Marth, but Seliph's Marth-adjacent, right? I might swap out the Capcom sprites for 2D art down the line given how much the sprites clash with the static Nintendo art, but for now enjoy them in their CPS2/CPS3/NAOMI glory.

...And yes, I know Servbot is way too big.

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[Great Martinez Jr.]

Personally my biggest issue with Great Cave Offensive (and Palutena's Temple as well for that matter) is visibility.

Their design and layout have interesting aspects but the action becomes really difficult to follow if all characters aren't really close to each other.

I get what problem they were trying to solve, but I'm no sure the solution they arrived at was actually the best.

As to TotK, I definitely would like a traveling stage that cycles through the Depths, the Surface and the Sky.

Yeah, all that stuff is veeeery much reaching. "Reading tea leaves" is very apt, but hey, what else are doin' until the damn console is even revealed?

Aside from finding new characters and modes to hope for, of course. If Terry can become a KOF rep after Kyo or Iori potentially joins then Ryu, Ken, and Mega Man can be considered Versus Series reps when Ruby Heart gets in. She could have Sonson and Amingo as assists!

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Oh, I get it. We're all ultimately just goofing off speculating until something actually gets announced.

I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

While making progress with reuploading most of my Abload images, I came across my old Nintendo vs. Capcom roster from Sept. 2021. I've quoted the original post but converted the images so they (hopefully) aren't lost when Abload goes down in June.

Click to shrink...

Mmmm... I would replace Jill with Claire (RE2 was the game that came to the N64 after all). I also can't help it but think Captain Falcon should be there somewhere.

 

[Zan]

Did one of these recap posts for Sega, Konami and Microsoft. Might as well do Capcom as well.

-A 3rd SF2 character could seem likley, but personally it would have to be spmeone that doesn't have "Shotto DNA" as I call it. (Ryu Clone.) In this sense, I think ChunLi, Dictator and maybe Zangief?
-Other SF characters run the gammut on likliness, but I feel the later the game, the liklier the candidate. Sakurai could blindside us with Ibuki for all I know.
-"SF World" series (Rival Schools, Final Fight) I don't feel are on the radar.
-Darkstalkers feels like AT material, and even then it couldn't be too ambitious (no Midnight Bliss)
-If a second Rockman character comes to pass, it has to be Zero in my mind. But Protoman or X could be good echoes as well.
-MonHun feels like it's in it's best spot right now, but who knows if the team behind the series want him to come out and slay.
-RE feels like a big blindspot that shouldn't just have spirits, but it may up the age rating. (Unless they do a MVC2 Jill route)
-DMC feels very likely, but if we get just Dante, or a Nero echo too is a bit hard to place, IMO.
-Classic Capcom characters (Arthur, SonSon) feel like they're backseats compared to the rest of the contenders.
-Phoenix feels like his future's up in the air, but I can see him as a costume.
-Any other series (Viewtiful Joe, Dino Crisis, Ghost Trick) all seem like spirit fodder at best.

Just some ramblings I had in my noggin.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Bison could be a fun Boss Battle, if they managed to channel the energy of actually fighting a 'regular' opponent and not some big monster like Ganon and such. Have him based on Alpha 3.

And while Chun-Li could be the 3rd Street Fighter rep, I also could see Akuma being included too for being yet another character based on Ryu (and yet very distinct). No reason to not have them both in a swoop though.

 

[Scrappy-Fan92]

If we have four Street Fighter characters before even one Mortal Kombat Virtua Fighter character, then something has gone terribly wrong.

Mmmm... I would replace Jill with Claire (RE2 was the game that came to the N64 after all). I also can't help it but think Captain Falcon should be there somewhere.

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Claire over Jill is a sensible swap. If I had put more than five minutes of thought into the Capcom half of the roster, I might've done so.

 

[ContractHolder]

Look, you can put whatever fighting game characters in Smash Bros, as long as I get a cool Smash Bros Amiibo out of it.

... Amiibos gonna come back damn it. We're not getting rid of them until I get Dixie Kong's Amiibo to chill with Donkey, Diddy and Banjo.

 

[jtmmachine]

Fuck it , make the RE character an all-STARS with RE1 Chris, RE2 Claire, RE3 Jill, and RE4 Leon. It's such an iconic series it needs more than just Spirits, even if it has hurdles as an M-rated survival horror series

I'm fully on-board the MegaMan.EXE train now. Implementing Battle Chips, Styles, and PAs could make for an extremely unique moveset and with the face mask + spikiness, he's even visually distinct from Classic!MM

 

[Melpomene]

I still need Lone Badman to make it if we're doing fighting game characters.

Okay, he's not really even my first choice from his series, but we've gotta be realistic.

 

[batfax]

Ghost Trick should absolutely be part of Spirits in some unique capacity due to both being ghost-related and Ghost Trick being one of the greatest games ever. I also think if RE makes it in, Claire and Leon are the best choices just 'cause they've never been in a crossover fighter before somehow, so they're pretty fresh ground for Smash to tread and not put up with any baggage from Chris and Jill's appearances in the Versus series.

Speaking of, clearly I was not loud enough the first time. I must re-state that one of the most iconic and beloved fighting games of all time has a protagonist who

• Has an actual pirate aesthetic, not a dragon or someone who only does a pirate thing for one move and is a king the rest of the time
• Can cast magic, and has a crew and ghost friends
• Is already fun to play as
• wants to take you for a ride
• is just cool as fuck
• Has poses that would make a good amiibo:

Which should be more than enough to put Ruby Heart in the running. Even if she's not active in the series, I'm sure we can all agree that neither will Joker be by the time of Persona 6, and the Versus series itself will continue to persist. Other candidates struggle with recovery options? She's got Schwarzaile, so that's no problemo. What about a cool gimmick? Perhaps fellow MvC2 OCs can come along for the ride with Sonson's gamma assist from MvC2 giving her a useful anti-air option, while Amingo's goes along the ground. The three together would do well for a Final Smash, chaining supers together for a Hyper Combo Finish. Maybe start with Amingo going with the Sun's Blessing to have a vertical hitbox before starting a cinematic finisher, with Sonson following up with Tenchi-Tsuken to bring 'em back down, followed by Ruby Heart's airship bombarding them.

You know it'd be rad.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcfjQ1osc4

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqP4khryIxA

View: https://youtu.be/AwkPvrH6AT8?si=vhyOelrVC_l8eg2b

I feel like a cool TotK stage practically designs itself, honestly.

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Only if you have Autobuild.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Chun-Li has to be the next Street Fighter rep. I don't think it should be anyone else. (Ditto for Zero with Mega Man, although he's not as high a priority.)

I've often entertained the idea of a RE S.T.A.R.S line-up myself! They all more or less play the same in their source material anyway, so why not take the Hero route? (And as far as the ratings concerns go, well, it's nothing they haven't handled before with MGS, Bayonetta and Persona, so I'm sure the Smash team can think up some workarounds.)

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

Count me on "Chun Li should be the 3rd Street Fighter character". It honestly feels weird to have Ryu and Ken in a crossover without her.

As to Resident Evil, while I think they taking a Hero like approach with the major protagonists of the series (Chris, Jill, Leon and Claire) is possible, if they don't do that I honestly think they will go with Leon. He just seems like the most popular character amongst Nintendo's audience (helps that the original RE4 was a big deal for the fandom).

(As an aside, I maintain that if you can tone down Bayonetta for Smash, you can do the same with Resident Evil).

 

[CyberWolfBia]

• Has an actual pirate aesthetic, not a dragon or someone who only does a pirate thing for one move and is a king the rest of the time
• Can cast magic, and has a crew and ghost friends
• Is already fun to play as
• wants to take you for a ride
• is just cool as fuck
• Has poses that would make a good amiibo:

Which should be more than enough to put Ruby Heart in the running.

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Sakurai puts Ruby Heart in the game, but she's representing her own (scrapped) game, Great Voyage Frontier. All the Spirits are based on her friends and foes they intended for that game and we get a peak of what could've been on a stage and with music made for that; No references to Marvel vs. Capcom 2 other than maybe her moveset!

 

[batfax]

That'd be a pretty fun little thing. I already figured her crew could appear as "Versus series" spirits (and in her special), along with Sonson and Amingo, but since Great Voyage Frontier surely has a lot of unused art assets for characters lying around it would be interesting to see them get a little breath of air.

 

[ned_ballad]

I really want Akuma, the only SF character I've ever enjoyed using, but I imagine the third Street Fight character being yet another variant of Ryu would... not go well...

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

Sakurai puts Ruby Heart in the game, but she's representing her own (scrapped) game, Great Voyage Frontier. All the Spirits are based on her friends and foes they intended for that game and we get a peak of what could've been on a stage and with music made for that; No references to Marvel vs. Capcom 2 other than maybe her moveset!

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Ok, I learned something new.

The paths that could have been taken.

 

[GreenMamba]

I really want Akuma, the only SF character I've ever enjoyed using, but I imagine the third Street Fight character being yet another variant of Ryu would... not go well...

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Akuma as a bonus echo alongside Chun Li would be neat but maybe more work than they'd be willing to go for.

 

[BGBW]

Four Street Fighter reps in Smash before a second Wario Ware rep is the definition of a disgrace.

 

[Giga Man]

I'm still of the mind that Akuma should be a hidden super boss like he's known for (much better than Sephiroth) with a jacked up AI, screen-filling supers like Marvel, teleporting between each end of the stage, demon flipping everywhere, insta-kill Raging Demon, the works. It looks like you're fighting an ordinary Smash character, but he's anything but.

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

Someone here suggested the idea of an Assist Trophy Akuma that occasionally backfires and you get Dan Hibiki instead.

I honestly like that idea.

 

[Scrappy-Fan92]

Even better if Dan has a 0.0001% chance of taking you out in one hit when he does an uppercut.

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

Even better if Dan has a 0.0001% chance of taking you out in one hit when he does an uppercut.

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Oh, that's even better, yes.

 

[jtmmachine]

Can't wait for the Wario Land revival Switch 2 launch title with Captain Syrup co-op that'll push her into Smash—satisfying batfax and BGBW in one go!

For ATs, if we get an Undertale character, I'd love it to be Sans—especially if the playable character is also Sans. Just feels like something he'd do haha

 

[Giga Man]

Yeah, we need someone to break the "rule" that a character can't be both an assist trophy and a fighter.

inb4 someone says Waluigi

 

[Melpomene]

Yeah, we need someone to break the "rule" that a character can't be both an assist trophy and a fighter.

inb4 someone says Waluigi

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here comes Rathalos, at full size.

 

[Great Martinez Jr.]

8 player Smash with only Rathalos would be a sight to behold.

 

[batfax]

No need to simply imagine what a bunch of full-size Rathalos would look like on a stage.


View: https://youtu.be/Pmn82eTlCm4?si=3o0VaOlgNrPaaq7d&t=12

Damn, Ultimate could really take a beating when it comes to putting characters on-screen. Amazed that they limit us in pokeball/assist trophy summons so much.

Can't wait for the Wario Land revival Switch 2 launch title with Captain Syrup co-op that'll push her into Smash—satisfying batfax and BGBW in one go!

For ATs, if we get an Undertale character, I'd love it to be Sans—especially if the playable character is also Sans. Just feels like something he'd do haha

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I'll take any pirate I can get, but if Syrup can also bring back Wario Land, even better.

 

[Giga Man]

No need to simply imagine what a bunch of full-size Rathalos would look like on a stage.


View: https://youtu.be/Pmn82eTlCm4?si=3o0VaOlgNrPaaq7d&t=12

Damn, Ultimate could really take a beating when it comes to putting characters on-screen. Amazed that they limit us in pokeball/assist trophy summons so much.



I'll take any pirate I can get, but if Syrup can also bring back Wario Land, even better.

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Looking at the damage counters read "0.o" makes a very appropriate emote.

O.o

 

[RochHoch]

Said this in the thread for it, but Multiversus really gave us a look at what Bandanna Waddle Dee would look like in Smash, and it's super boring and just kind of baffling lol

 

[jtmmachine]

Eh, Banana Guard would be more like if Bandana Dee came before Dedede or Meta Knight and also forgot the Bandana lol.

 

[RockmanBN]

Said this in the thread for it, but Multiversus really gave us a look at what Bandanna Waddle Dee would look like in Smash, and it's super boring and just kind of baffling lol

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Eh. I don't care at all for Bandana Dee, but they already had a cultivated niche fanbase. Don't think you could say the same for the Banana Guard

 

[Giga Man]

Listen, Nintendo...

Y'all ain't got no reason to not put Banana Dee in the game now!

 

[batfax]

While I'd much rather see Adeline, Gooey, Magalor, or something really left field, I just don't see how one mook with a spear being a questionable and bland looking addition to another game is much of a statement on how fun Bandanna Dee could be in Smash. Having a decent fan base is also good, since at least Dee gets to be playable and go on adventures.

 

[Scrappy-Fan92]

Smash Bros. has Piranha Plant, MultiVersus has Banana Guard. I don't see the problem outside of there being about a dozen other Adventure Time characters I would have personally chosen before Banana Guard (but there are about a dozen other Mario characters I would have thought of before Plant even came into my head).

 

[RochHoch]

Bandanna Dee comes across as the Toad of Kirby

Yeah, he's important, but there's a reason we got Rosa, Bowser Jr, and even Plant before Toad. They're just more interesting options.

Kirby has lots options when it comes to characters with cool moveset like Magolor, Morpho Knight, etc. There's even a way more interesting spear user they could go with in Elfilin with a moveset pulled from Fecto Elfilis, so I have a hard time seeing why they should settle for the Toad equivalent instead.

 

[Scrappy-Fan92]

Because people want him and there's potential with the elemental attacks.

We're going to be relitigating this until the end of time, every Smash game until the devs come down on one side or the other. Or the devs put in Bandana Dee, Toad, and a generic soldier from Fire Emblem to flex.