Super Smash Bros Ultimate has 19 white male characters (6 of which are blue eyed / blonde hair), and 0 women of color
- Thread starter BigBlue
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I think twintelle is a spirit so I'm not super sure what Sakurai's rules on that are
Nintendo just has a representation problem. Call out nintendo themselves, because Japan doesnt think about western representation in the same way. So you either have to force them or dont bother
Ganondorf is Gerudo, so if Urbosa counts, so does he. Likewise, Ganondorf is a bit more brown in Ultimate than he was in Wii U/3DS.
Yeah, it's amazing how much people would actually make huge impacts on our life in some way that it would affect how we thinks about the subjects or issues.
Maybe? That would've made sense since Corrin seemed like an advertisement character considering the timing of his release. Either way, I feel like that was probably the time for Xenoblade X as it was one of the Wii U's big games coming out around that time.
Which is why it would've made more sense to advertise it via Smash than FE Fates which clearly didn't need it. Also with development time, I don't know if Xenoblade X would've even been out yet when they decided on Corrin. Xenoblade X only came out a month or two before Fates in Japan.
Splatoon is marketed and associated pretty strongly with characters like the Squid Sisters and Off the Hook, and even the Agents tend to be depicted as canonically female.
I guess what I'm saying is, if the big thing preventing Twintelle or Min-Min from being playable in Smash is Spring Man, then why the heck does Spring Man need to be white?
I guess what I'm saying is, if the big thing preventing Twintelle or Min-Min from being playable in Smash is Spring Man, then why the heck does Spring Man need to be white?
I want to bump this post because I do think people need to share their opinions and feedbacks with Nintendo or any branches so they can hear your voices.
Sometime it doesn't help to complains about it on the forum because they sometime wouldn't see the posts so it's better to be more vocal about it on social media like Twitter or email/use the feedback functions.
Yeah, plus the Gerudo are heavily based on Arabic people. Ganondorf counts even if he does look a bit green in some games more than others. He's also a villain, so that's always fun... Once again, not Smash's fault, more of the fault of the Zelda series.
This is a good summary of the situation. Sakurai is absolutely determined to get everything about a series properly represented if possible. The amount of cameos on Spiral Mountain and animation references in Banjo and Kazooie's moveset shows that, he views the primary mascot of each IP as a superstar that gets red carpet treatment. This is how he views Smash and I don't see that changing, especially when Ultimate is now the best selling fighting game of all time.
But +1 on Arle, I'm hoping for her myself.
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I mean, I've been pretty vocal about the lack of women in Smash even before that. But the time my cousins came over truly raised my awareness of the problem to the point where it legitimately bothered me.
That's actually a really good question. To ARMS's credit, it does a good job in terms of maintaining a solid female fighter ratio (40% exactly) as well as bringing an ethnically-diverse cast of characters to the roster. But did Spring Man really have to be a white guy? I know some may instantly say "But it's not a big deal if he is" (maybe not here, but elsewhere). But to them I say, that's the thing, it's not a big deal. Would it be a problem if he wasn't white?
That's like the Piccolo argument for Dragon Ball. Its sad that the only black person we can point to is green.
You do have a point there, & Smash (as well as Nintendo as a whole) should do better. We're seeing slow-but-steady progress on Nintendo's end, but more has to be done.
He doesn't. This is absolutely the core of the issue. Nintendo and other companies need to invest in mascot characters that aren't pale skinned dudes. But it's slow moving because, in my opinion, this is an expensive hobby and the barrier for entry is high (300 dollar console + 60 dollar game). So the video game industry is slow to adapt to trends of diversity and representation compared to other mediums because they are afraid of alienating their core base. (I mean, this is why gacha games are so successful, they can make money off a small userbase made up of whales.)
This is also why I think indie games do a lot better in that regard. Less financial barriers all around and less fear of doing anything outside of the AAA white dude box.
Spring Man is a rather generic dude with a generic theme that takes inspiration from older Japanese manga like Astro Boy and Cyborg 009. He's designed to represent ARMS' concept.
At the very least, he's presented more alongside Ribbon Girl (who got a costume) than by himself, so I'm confident she would get included along with him.
Most of the fault isn't Smash's. But as I said before, Smash does bear a good chunk of the blame.
I think she would've had a pretty good shot if the whole Everyone Is Here thing hadn't happened
It shouldn't be smash is just a compilation of the most popular characters in gaming, they dont have the luxury of making their own original characters like other fighting games.
Of all the games I've seen people ask for a PoC character from, I think something like GTA might be the best one to go with here. It's not to say a lot of everyone else's choices are bad because they're not but they're just not flagship characters. That said, GTA's had people of color as flagship characters and maybe doing something like Franklin as the rep would be absolutely insane and mind bending but it would also be one cool character and I want this to happen right now.
yes I know this is a weird suggestion but after reading this thread some more, it wouldn't just be awesome but Franklin is from what is one of the best selling video games in history and the more I think of it a GTA rep in general would be the best thing ever. Please god make it happen ;-;
yes I know this is a weird suggestion but after reading this thread some more, it wouldn't just be awesome but Franklin is from what is one of the best selling video games in history and the more I think of it a GTA rep in general would be the best thing ever. Please god make it happen ;-;
It's lame, although understandable considering gaming history. Which really does say a lot about gaming history that so relatively few gaming icons and popular Nintendo characters are non-Japanese PoC.
That said, "6 of which are blue eyed / blonde hair" is less of an issue *shrugs*. Blond hair and blue eyes isn't that big of a deal considering dark hair generally seems the better represented (and preferred) out of the two. Heck, JP games usually prefer a multitude of hair colors compared to blond.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand, even though Nintendo generally has very few black or brown characters, the lack of Elma, Twintelle or Impa in Ultimate is pretty disappinting.
That said, "6 of which are blue eyed / blonde hair" is less of an issue *shrugs*. Blond hair and blue eyes isn't that big of a deal considering dark hair generally seems the better represented (and preferred) out of the two. Heck, JP games usually prefer a multitude of hair colors compared to blond.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand, even though Nintendo generally has very few black or brown characters, the lack of Elma, Twintelle or Impa in Ultimate is pretty disappinting.
The blame lies in the industry, not in Smash. Smash is a game that brings characters from past games. Most of those characters were made years and years ago.
this is on the industry. SSB is relying 100% on what series are popular and have history in gaming.
history in gaming being white-centered is not SSB's fault.
if anything, we should say the whole industry has been really bad with representation and direct the criticism to it. if the industry improves, SSB will improve.
history in gaming being white-centered is not SSB's fault.
if anything, we should say the whole industry has been really bad with representation and direct the criticism to it. if the industry improves, SSB will improve.
"It's entirely on the rest of the industry" would make sense if they literally ran out of PoC to add to Smash. We'll see how the post-Pass DLC turns out.
I find the notion that Smash is just dealing with a bad hand a little "nah." Like, Heroine was a potential option, and it was SE's decision, but that Sakurai never mentioned ever considering Heroine is nah. So are Dixie Kong and Krystal being cut from Brawl. If Sakurai really wanted to include women and POC, he has had options. Lara Croft, Jill Valentine, Dixie Kong, Heroine, Ashley, Impa, Celica, Octoling, Elma, Krystal, Medusa, Rodin, Liu Kang, Doc Louis, Twintelle, Mr. Sandman, Shantae, Yuri Kozukata, Shovel Knight (shit, that'd be non-binary representation too!), Terra Branford, Rabbid Peach, Tracer, Kerrigan, Pauline, Tifa Lockhart, Chun-Li, Aigis, Roll, Ms. Pac-Man, Undyne, etc.
There are options, and Sakurai had the ability to implement them, and either couldn't or didn't. Heroine isn't even acknowledged in any capacity, Ms. Pac-Man appears in Pac-Land yet nowhere else, Persona had no Mii Costumes for women (despite Aigis being a waaaay more interesting choice than P3 Protag). Non-white characters are certainly more appropriate to claim that there aren't options, especially non-white men (harder to make exotic than women), but even then the likes of Doc Louis, Yuri Kozukata, and Impa could have been featured at some point, yet none of them have ever been.
Smash has gaping holes - some caused by the industry at large, but Sakurai has options.
Metroidvania is a specific genre where players explore, often involving backtracking, and developing new abilities along the way that help them explore more proficiently, whereas the CVs Simon and Richter are from are linear action-platformers with no permanent upgrades.
There are options, and Sakurai had the ability to implement them, and either couldn't or didn't. Heroine isn't even acknowledged in any capacity, Ms. Pac-Man appears in Pac-Land yet nowhere else, Persona had no Mii Costumes for women (despite Aigis being a waaaay more interesting choice than P3 Protag). Non-white characters are certainly more appropriate to claim that there aren't options, especially non-white men (harder to make exotic than women), but even then the likes of Doc Louis, Yuri Kozukata, and Impa could have been featured at some point, yet none of them have ever been.
Smash has gaping holes - some caused by the industry at large, but Sakurai has options.
Metroidvania is a specific genre where players explore, often involving backtracking, and developing new abilities along the way that help them explore more proficiently, whereas the CVs Simon and Richter are from are linear action-platformers with no permanent upgrades.
If the DLC had less focus on guest characters there would be more chance for diversity. But if they are going after the main characters of big legacy franchises its just gonna get worse or they will just be skins to whoever the main charcter is. I don't expect the 2nd wave of DLC to be any different its too appealing to them and other companies to use guest characters. Hyrule Warriors Impa should be in the game.
The problem regarding Hyrule Warriors as of now is that Smash seems to pretend that it doesn't exist (same for Fire Emblem Warriors, which could have been used as reference for Male & Female Robin's spirits). Though fortunately for Impa, her Skyward Sword incarnation is a viable option. Likewise, third-party guests who are women are indeed options, such as Jill & Tracer.
Krystal was never cut. She was at best momentarily considered before going with Wolf because he could be developed in a faster timeframe by borrowing assets from Fox, whereas Dixie had actual development done on her.
He has added a crapload of female characters since Brawl. He even surprised us with an unexpected Wii Fit Trainer, a notion that any other developer would've likely laughed at.
- Palutena
- Rosalina
- Bayonetta
- Lucina
- Isabelle
- Dark Samus
- Daisy
A lot of those options will be considered for the future, but we don't need to scrap the bottom of the barrel for the likes of Rabbid Peach.
P.S.: How dare you forget Captain Syrup? If Wario was to get another rep, Sakurai should consider the OG Wario villain.
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And if you count the characters with alt genders:
Robin
Corrin
Villager
Bowser Jr. (Wendy)
Inkling
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Uh... Dark Samus isn't a girl. It's... god, how did they explain it... It's a highly advanced virus that possessed Samus' Power Suit.
Uh... no, it isn't. about 1/3 of the cast is female, and another third isn't even human. Smash is quite possible the single MOST diverse fighting game out there. There's Animals, dragons, people, hybrids, robots, 2-d beings, aliens, and even a freaking potted plant. Diversity is not something the series lacks.
People still address her as female since she took the form and alias of a female character.
Plus, Metroids can have biological sex. It's why we have Queen Metroids. Not farfetched.
Ganondorf is not white (Gerudo are meant to evoke middle-easterners/north Africans).
Either way, you're barking up the wrong tree. This is an issue with the industry at large not putting black/brown people in main character roles and Smash, being a celebration of the most iconic characters in gaming history, has to pick from a pool of light-skinned heroes. If we want black characters in Smash, then we should first ask Nintendo to create new IPs with black protagonists, which could then appear in Smash as their series' rep.
Nah Prime stuff calls dark samus a girl. the virus one is SA-X.
I'm aware. But Dark Samus isn't a Metroid. The virus is the thing that kills Metroids, if I remember correctly.
EDIT: Also, isn't SA-X the one in Smash?
Dark Samus is Metroid Prime, who I believe is a mutated Metroid.
I think you're confusing it with the X Parasite from Fusion, who don't actually kill Metroids (other way around).
Ganon and Gerudos are very blatantly and stereotypically arab, their whole culture in the games take inspiration from middle eastern ones. Him having green skin in some designs doesn't change that especially when he's obviously brown in Smash currently. Piccolo is just an alien.
He should count. And it should be pointed out that our one dark skin character is literally the king of evil.
Ehh... I might be. It's been a few years since I've played through the games.
SA-X is the Super Metroid style Samus on Fusion,
Dark Samus is the Metroid Prime Stuff.
Counting alternate costumes, sure. But for women by default, it's definitely lagging behind.
I 'hope' that circumstances of the game's development caused some of this. They opted to focus on bringing everyone back and capitalise on the large roster by adding even more huge names via dlc. Smash 4 used its roster purposely to beef up the female characters (Wii Fit, Palutena, Rosalina, Lucina, etc).
I'd 'hope' that if people make enough of a stink about this that it reaches Sakurai's ears. It's an easy enough problem for them to solve if they decide they want to solve it (Twintelle, Urbosa, Marina, Elma, Chun-Li, and a few others are perfectly suited to being in the game as is, so it's not particularly hard to get more diversity into the roster if that's what they decide to focus on).
I'd 'hope' that if people make enough of a stink about this that it reaches Sakurai's ears. It's an easy enough problem for them to solve if they decide they want to solve it (Twintelle, Urbosa, Marina, Elma, Chun-Li, and a few others are perfectly suited to being in the game as is, so it's not particularly hard to get more diversity into the roster if that's what they decide to focus on).
Claude
Off the Hook
Twintelle
Urbosa
Mr. Sandman
Doc Louis
Elma
Shantae
Nakoruru (light-skinned, but an ethnic minority nonetheless)