#notallracists
I can condemn it. Fuck every one of those people in that picture. Take your whataboutism and defense of the shitheads from your country elsewhere. Blackface started from racism. That's the tradition. Period.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Teenagers don blackface and hand out gifts to children in parade in Spain
- Thread starter Deleted member 835
- Start date
#notallracists
I can condemn it. Fuck every one of those people in that picture. Take your whataboutism and defense of the shitheads from your country elsewhere. Blackface started from racism. That's the tradition. Period.
Holy hell, I was expecting like just a few people doing this from the title. Wasn't expecting this to be a Zwarte Piet type situation. But just like that, there is no excuse here. There's absolutely no reason to be doing blackface, regardless of tradition or whatever. People's skin is not a costume, and doing that is not cool, even if it's not intentionally done maliciously. There's absolutely no excuse, no matter what.
In a case like this, given that there are three wise kings (or, their pages, regardless), and that the one that just so happens to be black is apparently the most popular, well, I can't help but be skeptical that part of the reason that would be would be as an excuse to do stuff like this, whereas if you picked one of the other two to dress up as, well, you'd be dressing up as a bunch of old men and that's just kinda boring. But Balthazar on the other hand, because he's depicted as being black, he offers opportunities the others don't and it seems more "fun" to dress up as him and do blackface and stuff, and the two feed into each other. And if it's not actively racist, it still seems kind of like fetishisizing/exoticizing someone for simply being black, since again, they're all just generic kings and basically made up characters and stuff and there's nothing much in particular about any of them that would make them special individually, so what would make him stand out so much if not that? And obviously such exocitizing is bad in its own right as well, even without the blackface component, since that by it's definition is treating someone differently and essentially as an outsider just on the basis on their skin color and that's not cool and leads to nothing good, even when it does start off well-intentioned.
I just can't help being skeptical that that's not part of the appeal to begin with, because from my understanding they're all pretty generic otherwise, so why would he stand out more than the other two to begin with, other than as an opportunity to get up to this kind of stuff? That may not be fair of me, but I just can't help being extremely skeptical of this kind of stuff and how it manages to "catch on" in the first place that stuff like this happens in the first place if there's not at least something there.
Regardless, it's definitely not cool to do this and there's no excuse for this no matter what, and no amount of Tropic Thunder or White Chicks comparisons and the like will ever change that.
In a case like this, given that there are three wise kings (or, their pages, regardless), and that the one that just so happens to be black is apparently the most popular, well, I can't help but be skeptical that part of the reason that would be would be as an excuse to do stuff like this, whereas if you picked one of the other two to dress up as, well, you'd be dressing up as a bunch of old men and that's just kinda boring. But Balthazar on the other hand, because he's depicted as being black, he offers opportunities the others don't and it seems more "fun" to dress up as him and do blackface and stuff, and the two feed into each other. And if it's not actively racist, it still seems kind of like fetishisizing/exoticizing someone for simply being black, since again, they're all just generic kings and basically made up characters and stuff and there's nothing much in particular about any of them that would make them special individually, so what would make him stand out so much if not that? And obviously such exocitizing is bad in its own right as well, even without the blackface component, since that by it's definition is treating someone differently and essentially as an outsider just on the basis on their skin color and that's not cool and leads to nothing good, even when it does start off well-intentioned.
I just can't help being skeptical that that's not part of the appeal to begin with, because from my understanding they're all pretty generic otherwise, so why would he stand out more than the other two to begin with, other than as an opportunity to get up to this kind of stuff? That may not be fair of me, but I just can't help being extremely skeptical of this kind of stuff and how it manages to "catch on" in the first place that stuff like this happens in the first place if there's not at least something there.
Regardless, it's definitely not cool to do this and there's no excuse for this no matter what, and no amount of Tropic Thunder or White Chicks comparisons and the like will ever change that.
How about this, we recognise collectively that blackface is racist, is always racist, and that ignorance isn't really any real excuse considering both the histories of Nations and slavery as well as the availability of education and the internet. We accept that yes, the US is racist, the UK is racist, Spain is racist, etc.
Then from that point of acceptance we can all strive to right wrongs of the past, the present, and the future and stop all this posturing
That there was never a thing in Spain like minstrel shows or an Apartheid system back when racism again black people was popular (Because black people were rare, black people started increasing in numbers in Spain during the 90s, and did so not in the context of slavery or colonialism and biological racism, but in the context of modern Sub-Saharan migration and the combination of racism and xenophobia that marks modern immigration discourse) so there's no historical background and many people don't think or know it's offensive.
On top of this, the Three Wise Kings are the Spanish version of Santa Claus. They are the traditional celebration. And since one of them was black and there were few black people around in the past, they took somebody to play the part, and it just stuck.
Edit: Mind, the "black pages" are a very old tradition of that particular village (It's not done anywhere else) that some people actually want to turn into a Unesco Patrimony of Humanity.
The association Afroféminas has a good article about the politics around this, if you speak Spanish:
https://afrofeminas.com/2018/01/05/...n-del-blackface-de-los-pajes-negros-de-alcoy/
I really hope this ends. Plenty of nice traditions that don't involve hurting your neighbors.
Last edited:
This seems kind of similar to a thing that happens in Cornwall still. It's an old tradition where people don blackface and hand put present. The reason was that they had to hide their face in case an agent of the king came, because he's try to tax it.
Just like this though, not appropriate now.
Just like this though, not appropriate now.
Iran has something similar with the Hadji Firoez character. Apparantly it's also on the UNESCO list.
I remember this growing up, I recall hearing some say "it's soot from the chimney" as the reason, (obviously isn't supposed to be, though I guess they could've used the soot to "dress up"), also recall hearing that it was household servants who dressed up and them being black, it "stuck as tradition" as time went on.
Crazy that so many countries have blackface "traditions" really.
Honestly, I don't think it is crazy given how racist and steeped in racism so many traditions are. The obsession with black people throughout history is well documented.
That these traditions continue is also not crazy given how racist people seem to want to continue to be
Last edited:
People here saying it's not racist because they don't know better are bullshitting. Why you guys think is the reason why some big cities have been pushing to hire a black person to impersonate Balthazar? It's 2019, this shit has been talked here already. People just don't care, but indifference is still racism.
You don't even need to hire anyone. Black people will volunteer for it because the parade is a tradition for children.
It's not just big cities that are pushing for it. The yellow dots represent villages that have had a black person as Balthazar this year.
As I said, we need to work harder until the map is covered in yellow and no village has blackface while educating people on why it is bad and that ignorance is no excuse.
I now remember having black paint for a Christmas school play on me now as a kid. Ups.
I don't excuse this at all, it is bad, but as and Spaniard I have to note this is not considered racist over here, not same connotations.
Just because you don't understand something is racist, doesn't make it not racist... That dude explaining why it isn't racist. Lord.
What people participating in racist traditions "consider" to be racist isn't exactly important. Some of the shit I've heard people say in the UK who don't consider their statements racist is exactly that, racist.
How about letting the people affected by these acts have authority on what racist acts actually are. Trump probably doesn't consider him self racist, but there we go
Many Country didn't know history of Black Faces or how it racist (i just learn about it 1 or 2 years ago on neogaf)
look thai
https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/th...lackface-wins-best-dressed-award-elite-party/
https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/th...eone-points-out-blackface-in-her-lipstick-ad/
https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/re...fails-model-channeling-grace-jones-blackface/
https://undertheropes.com/2016/01/22/blackface-and-racism-in-thailand/
look thai
https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/th...lackface-wins-best-dressed-award-elite-party/
https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/th...eone-points-out-blackface-in-her-lipstick-ad/
https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/re...fails-model-channeling-grace-jones-blackface/
https://undertheropes.com/2016/01/22/blackface-and-racism-in-thailand/
I think what he's trying to say is that this tradition, when it was conceived more than a century ago, was not done in order to mock a black minority in the country and to enforce white supremacy in it. The historical context is very different, even if today that Spain has lots of black residents and citizens the effect is just fucking blackface.
It'd be very easy to invite real black people to do this too, so I hope the people responsible for this wake up.
Christ, the complete idiocy of the subjects of those articles is something for sure.
It's a shit excuse and I do actually think mocking has likely always played into blackface in any context at some level, or at least a disgusting and insulting level of willful ignorance
Sure it's been covered already, but this is the Kings parade, celebrating the three wise men visiting Jesus - one of which is meant to be black but Spain is pretty much a white dominated country so they blackface. The intriguing part is - to them they don't see whats wrong with it. They've received more backlash this year so maybe it will start to turn.
This is not the same as the blackface "tradition" in the US. It started from ignorance, about a people on the other side of the globe. We want this shit stopped as much as you do, but some historical perspective would be nice.
Say some Martian explorer goes on TV and shows you a drawing of an alien he has encountered. Its not at all true to their likeness, but how would you know?
🤔
Are you implying that one of the most travelled nations in seafaring history didn't know what black people looked like? Or that there weren't any black people in Spain?
How large a percentage of the spanish population do you think were actual sailors.
Edit: let me say that the image shocked me btw. I hope thats clear. If the Dutch situation is anything to go by they have a long way to go before this kind of stuff has dissapeared.
Mocking a people through treating their skin and facial features as costumes and a source of comedy is racist whether it comes from ignorance, hatred or any other reason. The sames excuses were used in the United States for blackface, there is no difference.
Claiming ignorance is a poor defense. This isn't new.
Let's get this straight; the United States has a problem with racism. That does not prevent Spain from also having a problem. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh and "But AMERICA" isn't a trap card.
Donning yourself as a cartoonish, unrealistic caricature of another group of people is very much the same as the US blackface "tradition". No amount of pushing forth the weak ignorance argument explains why these people painted their skins and lips pigments that AT BEST are seen in a fraction of Africans.
As a Spaniard I have no excuse for this, I'm so sorry my country is so racist and ignorant, which shows a true reality that a lot of people here tries to deny.
Spain has had a very serious issue with racial representation for a long time.
You are talking shit. Spain is like 1 hour from Africa. Secondly, Arabic people lived in Spain for 500+ years so much so that a significant portion of the Spanish language actually has Arabic roots. Basically pick any Spanish word that starts with al and it's actually an Arabic word. Thirdly, Spain was part of the Roman Empire originally and there were African citizens living all over the Empire. I could go on at length.
Last edited:
You're missing my point. Im not saying that there is no problem with racism here. But see pictures in the 17th century of all kinds of foreign stuff: they are all charicatures.
It wasnt mocking, it was a game of telephone. Thats different than portraying the people you've enslaved and who have a large population in your country.
Its still racist in the end. Ignorance is just the fact. It cant be used as an excuse NOW.
For these people, you're absolutely right. For 17th century spaniards? Not so much.
Most of this is ignorance sadly
I myself didn't understood blackface a few years ago, only learned about it on gaf mostly (i knew of the bad blackface from the US, but i didn't get why it was bad when the intent behind it wasn't, now i do, but that's not everyone case yet)
I myself didn't understood blackface a few years ago, only learned about it on gaf mostly (i knew of the bad blackface from the US, but i didn't get why it was bad when the intent behind it wasn't, now i do, but that's not everyone case yet)
I appreciate your edit - (edit) actually I don't, you seem to be of the opinion black people weren't slaves in Spain....which is just wholly ignorant
However, the idea that people of African, and not just northern African, descent didn't travel to Iberia, were slaves in Iberia, or that they weren't seen during history is ridiculous.
I googled and came across articles describing the phenomenon with ease.
Are you really trying to argue that people in Spain were so far from black people and have never seen black people, historically? Spain, a nation that is literally across the Alboran sea from Africa? Like, the Gibraltar strait is a thing you know?
Spain, that has a long, long history of slavery? In the 1800s, they had nearly half a million slaves. Most from Africa. They've been enslaving African people since the 1400s. What are you even talking about.
So what people are saying here is that the Spanish population is "uneducated" about different cultures? Giving Americans a run for their money I guess.
No, im not. I was talking about the origin of the charicature. Slavery in spain was multi ethnic and as far as I know a large percentage was of north african descent.
Not really sure pulling all the way back to the days of "manifest destiny" - which is the ideology that predates white supremacy - is helping your case.
This tradition was steeped in mockery then as it is very much expressed now. I will give you though these people are worse because the advent of globalized information sharing and rampant cross-cultural mixing means these people should and likely do know better. But it's only a slight nod.
No, I'm well aware. I'm only arguing the what I believe to be a false equivalence between comedy shows mocking neighbours in a period where information and contact with "others" was high and a charicature based tradition like this. Both are equally bad in the end.
The fact remains that the world needs to wake the fuck up and stop this nonsense, and people need to stop hand waiving this shit under the auspices of tradition or implying accidental ignorance when it's wilful at this stage
The ideas about other cultures of that time were all horrible and shouldn't be excused.
+1
Every fucking year.
Before any of the usual suspects slither in here...
Yes it's blackface.
Yes it's racist.
Fuck your tradition.
No the movie White chicks is not a valid argument.
Neither is Tropic Thunder.
You're all fucking idiots.
This^.... all of it
Hey, cut the country some slack. It has enough on its plate already with the whole "trying to subjugate 4-5 different cultures to Madrid" thing.
Last edited:
OP
OP