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Television Displays and Technology Thread: The ERA of OLED is Now

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Kyoufu

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
DOTDASHDOT said:
I'm telling you, those quoted brightness levels don't mean Jack shit, in all honesty! Now I've seen both sides of the equation, I'm never being fooled again!

Yes these TV's can hit 2% field peaks on a UHD alliance test pattern, but in real content it's absolute bullshit; as the backlight lowers itself to such a degree to keep speculars bright and darks deep, I've even seen way brighter speculars on the OLED in well lit scenes, compared to my 1300nit FALD even!

Until there is a fald with thousands of zones, or MLED, OLED will always be better, I was a massive FALD fan too.
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Let's ignore Sony's industry-leading dimming algorithms for a minute and discuss full field brightness on OLED and LCD.

The LG C7's full window sustained HDR brightness is 137 nits.

The ZD9's full window sustained HDR brightness is 670 nits.

If you're wondering why I'm using full window sustained brightness as the comparison, it's because HDR gaming uses the entire panel whereas movies won't due to the black bars on the top and bottom. With the ZD10 at almost 3000 nits I'm very curious to see the difference in HDR between LCD and OLED again, because right now I think the ZD9 already beats OLEDs in HDR quality.

Brightness aside, I wonder how many local dimming zones the ZD10 or whatever it's called will have? Sony's local dimming algorithm is the best in the industry so if they can continue a high number of zones with quality dimming then it's going to get very interesting.
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,080
Kyoufu said:
Let's ignore Sony's industry-leading dimming algorithms for a minute and discuss full field brightness on OLED and LCD.

The LG C7's full window sustained HDR brightness is 137 nits.

The ZD9's full window sustained HDR brightness is 670 nits.

If you're wondering why I'm using full window sustained brightness as the comparison, it's because HDR gaming uses the entire panel whereas movies won't due to the black bars on the top and bottom. With the ZD10 at almost 3000 nits I'm very curious to see the difference in HDR between LCD and OLED again, because right now I think the ZD9 already beats OLEDs in HDR quality.

Brightness aside, I wonder how many local dimming zones the ZD10 or whatever it's called will have? Sony's local dimming algorithm is the best in the industry so if they can continue a high number of zones with quality dimming then it's going to get very interesting.
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Your full field brightness quotes are the only thing LCD has over OLED but even then it's not like the figures suggest, and backing up what I said, the difference is fairly big in Battlefield 1 for example, but I'm not sure what's going on there tbh, I've seen the OLED look a lot brighter in similar.

Even on the 3000nit video, Vincent still said that OLED wins by a fair degree in regards to star fields etc, but I can tell you for a fact it doesn't end with that example only, I've seen so much stuff on the B7 easily outperform a top FALD, just wish reviewers would get real and honest about performance, instead of quoting bullshit premium Alliance test pattern figures, it's very unhelpful.

Vincent and others need to put a collection of real tests together as a suite for every review, then we will all know the true performance.

To add, a mate of mine bought a 77" G7 same time as me, and he can't believe the difference, again coming from FALD.
 
DeaDPooL_jlp

DeaDPooL_jlp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,518
I think I'm going nuts. Bought a sony xbr900e recently and the cold weather around here after some time puts fog like spots on the screen. They wipe away fine but I'm trying to figure out if newer tv's are just more susceptible to this. My older tv never would get spots due to temperature. They essentially mimic like that of a window being outside during cold weather.
 
LiK

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,164
DeaDPooL_jlp said:
I think I'm going nuts. Bought a sony xbr900e recently and the cold weather around here after some time puts fog like spots on the screen. They wipe away fine but I'm trying to figure out if newer tv's are just more susceptible to this. My older tv never would get spots due to temperature. They essentially mimic like that of a window being outside during cold weather.
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That's freakin' weird.
 
master15

master15

Member
Nov 28, 2017
1,214
Finally joined the OLED game. Upgraded from my old 40 inch Samsung to Sony 55" XBR55A1E Bravia. Really amazing picture upgrade, really happy.

FBkwArk.jpg
 
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ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,743
DeaDPooL_jlp said:
Yup. It is near 2 windows so im assuming its due to that. Like i said it wipes away when i clean it, but it always throws me for a loop when it happens.
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How cold is the room or the TV getting? If it's cold enough to cause condensation on the screen when it's warming up then I'd think that's too cold and might be cause for concern in case anything happened inside the TV as well.

I have some outdoor security cameras that do this when it's cold and they start recording, as the heat of the camera causes it to fog up. It goes away once the temperatures even out, but that's for an outdoor rated device. I can't imagine it would be good for a TV to do that.
 
Madness

Madness

Member
Oct 25, 2017
792
DeaDPooL_jlp said:
I think I'm going nuts. Bought a sony xbr900e recently and the cold weather around here after some time puts fog like spots on the screen. They wipe away fine but I'm trying to figure out if newer tv's are just more susceptible to this. My older tv never would get spots due to temperature. They essentially mimic like that of a window being outside during cold weather.
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It's almost as if Rtings did this temperature test for you.

x900e-temperature-small.jpg


The televisiom gets on average between 32 to 35 degrees celsius. If you are getting moisture on the screen it means you might have some kind of excess humidity or moisture in your room. Is it open to the environment somewhere or near a duct or window? These televisions are increasingly rail thin, just tiny one inch metal/glass type electronics. What was your old television that didn't have this issue?

Be glad it is only on the outside and wipeable. Would be horrendous to get moisture or condensation behind the screen panels.
 
MosquitoSmasher

MosquitoSmasher

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
I am asking this for a buddy of mine and what better place than here? :)

He's dead set on getting a Samsung TV and he has heard great things about the KS9800. Thing is, here in Holland the 9800 only seems to come in 88 inch and costs.....15.000 euros! I guess this is where that strange Samsung shit comes in again where the KS7500 here is the 8000 in other countries or something. Or does our country just don't get the other sizes of 9800?
 
Deadceptor

Deadceptor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
538
Hawk269 said:
Yeah, on the E7 or 2017 models, engaging DC on low also engages active HDR and it does brighten it up a bit, but when you compare the other picture modes in HDR while gaming to the Game mode it is a big difference in brightness.
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Just a heads up, the active HDR DOES NOT work in Game mode! It has been tested and proved by Vincent Teoh on his HDTVTest channel. You'll just lose some details by activating it.
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,080
Hawk269 said:
Need some opinions. I have a LG E7 65" OLED that has developed some yellowish on the left side and I am noticing some banding in dark scenes when playing games. Outside of that it has been a great set, except that in the Game Mode the HDR seems a bit dim. I have gotten use to it, but when I use my Wife's Sony 940d screen HDR is so much brighter. I also messed with the none game mode on my LG and the HDR image is so much brighter and games look so much better, however input lag is very high. . As luck would have it, the retailer I bought it from 3 months ago said he would give me a complete refund if I wanted it. My challenge is...do I get another E7 or do I get a ZD9. I can get the ZD9 for the same price, actually a few hundred less than the E7. I know the HDR on the ZD9 is great even in game mode. Just wondering what some thoughts are on moving from the E7 to the ZD9 for someone that uses it 90-95 for gaming?

Thanks for any input!
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All my modes have identical brightness, don't really understand the dim accusations.
 
orochi91

orochi91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,886
Canada
I have the option of buying a brand new, boxed LG B7 55" for $1599 CAD, but the offer is only available till this Sunday.

Was gonna buy a new TV with a PS4 Pro later this year, but now I'm not sure I can wait.

Will the B7 get any cheaper than $1599 in the near future? Every other retailer here in Canada is selling it near or above $2k.
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,743
orochi91 said:
I have the option of buying a brand new, boxed LG B7 55" for $1599 CAD, but the offer is only available till this Sunday.

Was gonna buy a new TV with a PS4 Pro later this year, but now I'm not sure I can wait.

Will the B7 get any cheaper than $1599 in the near future? Every other retailer here in Canada is selling it near or above $2k.
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That's a pretty amazing price, I can't see it going lower than that. I paid around $1000 more than that earlier this year.
 
Mike Works

Mike Works

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,776
orochi91 said:
I have the option of buying a brand new, boxed LG B7 55" for $1599 CAD, but the offer is only available till this Sunday.

Was gonna buy a new TV with a PS4 Pro later this year, but now I'm not sure I can wait.

Will the B7 get any cheaper than $1599 in the near future? Every other retailer here in Canada is selling it near or above $2k.
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Where'd you get that deal?
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,332
DOTDASHDOT said:
Your full field brightness quotes are the only thing LCD has over OLED but even then it's not like the figures suggest, and backing up what I said, the difference is fairly big in Battlefield 1 for example, but I'm not sure what's going on there tbh, I've seen the OLED look a lot brighter in similar.

Even on the 3000nit video, Vincent still said that OLED wins by a fair degree in regards to star fields etc, but I can tell you for a fact it doesn't end with that example only, I've seen so much stuff on the B7 easily outperform a top FALD, just wish reviewers would get real and honest about performance, instead of quoting bullshit premium Alliance test pattern figures, it's very unhelpful.

Vincent and others need to put a collection of real tests together as a suite for every review, then we will all know the true performance.

To add, a mate of mine bought a 77" G7 same time as me, and he can't believe the difference, again coming from FALD.
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Rtings has a Real Scene Brightness rating.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-z9d-vs-lg-b7a/425/541

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-x930e-vs-lg-b7a/419/541

I don't have a real point of reference for OLED HDR since I've only seen it at Best Buy. All I know is that my 930e HDR performance has completely blown me away, much more so than my Samsung KS8000. I agree that OLED will probably have better HDR performance in dark scenes, but I'm not sure it would ever match the Sony's in bright scenes in movies like Planet Earth II or outdoor areas like in Horizon Zero Dawn, not to mention if you were playing in a room with alot of light.
 
LiK

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,164
OLED light is plenty bright, imo. I lowered all my settings and it still looks very bright
 
orochi91

orochi91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,886
Canada
ElNino said:
That's a pretty amazing price, I can't see it going lower than that. I paid around $1000 more than that earlier this year.
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So this price is as good as it gets? You recommend I should buy this ASAP?

I increased my credit limit to $5k in order to accommodate this deal, lol

Mike Works said:
Where'd you get that deal?
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It's a small time shop here in Mississauga, but the dude specializes in New TVs.

I'll go in again tomorrow afternoon and ask about warranty.
 
LiK

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,164
orochi91 said:
So this price is as good as it gets? You recommend I should buy this ASAP?

I increased my credit limit to $5k in order to accommodate this deal, lol



It's a small time shop here in Mississauga, but the dude specializes in New TVs.

I'll go in again tomorrow afternoon and ask about warranty.
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Get it. The only reason prices dropped for BF was because LG was doing their promo price deal. As soon as it ended, it went back up a few hundred bucks.
 

ElNino

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,743
orochi91 said:
So this price is as good as it gets? You recommend I should buy this ASAP?

I increased my credit limit to $5k in order to accommodate this deal, lol
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I mean, if you are increasing your credit limit in order to "afford" the TV, then I'm not going to recommend you to buy it ASAP. Not that I didn't buy plenty of things when I couldn't pay them off, but I just don't want anybody to get in the habit of buying things on credit that they can't realistically afford to buy with cash within the next month or so. Regarding the price, I think that's as low as you are likely going to find outside of store specific clearance once the next year's TVs come out.
 
DeaDPooL_jlp

DeaDPooL_jlp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,518
Madness said:
It's almost as if Rtings did this temperature test for you.

x900e-temperature-small.jpg


The televisiom gets on average between 32 to 35 degrees celsius. If you are getting moisture on the screen it means you might have some kind of excess humidity or moisture in your room. Is it open to the environment somewhere or near a duct or window? These televisions are increasingly rail thin, just tiny one inch metal/glass type electronics. What was your old television that didn't have this issue?

Be glad it is only on the outside and wipeable. Would be horrendous to get moisture or condensation behind the screen panels.
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Thanks for the info! It is near 2 windows but I have black out curtains over each but it's been getting pretty chilly here. Plus I wouldn't say it's like true condensation where you can see small droplets of water and such. It's more like a streak from an attempted cleaning that keeps reappearing in different spots. Mostly it's in the corners but then randomly they'll be more towards the center. It's just odd, again they wipe away instantly so I know it's not something actually stuck on the screen. I assumed due to the cold weather it was just making the screen a little cold. It's been performing perfectly fine though.
 
Madness

Madness

Member
Oct 25, 2017
792
orochi91 said:
So this price is as good as it gets? You recommend I should buy this ASAP?

I increased my credit limit to $5k in order to accommodate this deal, lol

It's a small time shop here in Mississauga, but the dude specializes in New TVs.

I'll go in again tomorrow afternoon and ask about warranty.
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$1600 CAD is pretty much the lowest you'll see bar any kind of YMMV clearance type deals. There is always risk with purchases, but I am fairly confident it won't go lower than that. I mean it's over $2300 at retailers right now. Now maybe boxing day or super bowl time you might see it come close, maybe CES 2018 televisions, but even then, no guarantees.
 
broncobuster

broncobuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,139
I continue to be conflicted about what the OLED Light setting should be on my LG C7 for HDR content. Everyone seems to recommend 100/max. But for me, it's far too bright in a dim room. Don't know if that's how it needs to be.
 
mingo

mingo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
819
London
so now that i have picked up an Xbox1x and had a PS4p since lauch i feel its time to upgrade to a 4KTV, however, i am very confused with the selection and the specs of each TV, so im hopeing you guys can help! The confusion stems from HDR, i'm looking to get one with proper HDR but when looking at specs i've seen 8bit, 10bit (8bit+FRC) WTF is this?? and 10bit. Is the 10bit (8bit+FRC) a false 10bit panel?

I'm looking at spending maybe £500-600 43-50in, preferbly a Samsung, Sony or LG and for bedroom use. Am i able to get a decent 10bit HDR TV for that price?

Thanks for your help!
 
Adobe

Adobe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
378
TitanicFall said:
Rtings has a Real Scene Brightness rating.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-z9d-vs-lg-b7a/425/541

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-x930e-vs-lg-b7a/419/541

I don't have a real point of reference for OLED HDR since I've only seen it at Best Buy. All I know is that my 930e HDR performance has completely blown me away, much more so than my Samsung KS8000. I agree that OLED will probably have better HDR performance in dark scenes, but I'm not sure it would ever match the Sony's in bright scenes in movies like Planet Earth II or outdoor areas like in Horizon Zero Dawn, not to mention if you were playing in a room with alot of light.
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I agree, I had the C7 and while the TV was stunning, it had a few issues I couldn't get over with. Now I have a X930E and I am really impressed, great picture quality and intense brightness. I just wished it had more local dimming zones. Other than that, great TV. No banding and yellow tint issues that I had on the C7.
 
GinoFelino

GinoFelino

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,234
Adobe said:
I agree, I had the C7 and while the TV was stunning, it had a few issues I couldn't get over with. Now I have a X930E and I am really impressed, great picture quality and intense brightness. I just wished it had more local dimming zones. Other than that, great TV. No banding and yellow tint issues that I had on the C7.
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Yeah this has been my experience with comparing the Sony and LG sets as well. Not to mention the fact that settings are hassle free and foolproof on the Sony as opposed to LGs clusterfuck.

Too bad the 930e is still stupid expensive where I live. I can't justify it atm.
 
sector4

sector4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
86
Just over a year in with my Z9D and happy to report that it's still performing extremely well with everything I throw at it.

The Android OS has annoyed me a bit more over time, I've had to restart the TV a bunch of times, but that aside, everything else about the TV is superb.
 

Me_Marcadet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
411
Sygma said:
Gt Sport and that's about it ?
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There's also TLOU remaster. I think there's a lot more on Xbox One X? Maybe I will buy it sooner than I planned, 4k HDR 60fps is really something.

I played a little of doom 2016 and I found the graphics so underwhelming, on my previous 1080p set it was one of my favorite game visually.

Everyone was right, when you try HDR, you can't go back.

Regarding the banding issue, I must admit it was very annoying when I switched my C7. Having a point of comparison made me focus on the flaw and I started to notice the pattern everywhere. Even on full bright scene I could make out the pattern and often I would look and mistake the same pattern on the picture whereas it was just some poor encoding or vertical shadows.

What made me realize I was paranoid was seeing Star Wars in the cinema, I also saw vertical banding on the screen, and I realized that if you focus and look for flaws, you will only see them and make yourself feel bad instead of enjoying every good and amazing things about the set.

Human psychology is weird, because before switching it never bothered me, I only started to notice it because I thought of the possibility of having a worse set and maybe I should swap it again.

What I also found out from this is that every director love to have vertical lines about one third of the screen on the left.
 
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Kyoufu

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
sector4 said:
Just over a year in with my Z9D and happy to report that it's still performing extremely well with everything I throw at it.

The Android OS has annoyed me a bit more over time, I've had to restart the TV a bunch of times, but that aside, everything else about the TV is superb.
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Have you tried this?

 
LiK

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,164
broncobuster said:
I continue to be conflicted about what the OLED Light setting should be on my LG C7 for HDR content. Everyone seems to recommend 100/max. But for me, it's far too bright in a dim room. Don't know if that's how it needs to be.
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Pick what looks right for your eyes. Don't strain your eyes because it's the best "picture quality". Everything looks better at max light but save your vision esp in a dim room.
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,080
Well im starting to get a handle on which games are mastered at 10k nits, so far Battlefield 1 and Wipeout remastered, they look so flat on a B7, nothing like anything else ive seen, definitely looks as though Vincent Teoh was right! Hopefully LG will address the tone mapping for 10k games, as the A1E doesn't do it.
 
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Nobility

Nobility

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,046
While not surprised, I was hoping for HDMI 2.1 luck for CES 2018.

Still looking for a 4K TV for general tv and movie viewing, just really hoping for a combination of HDR10+ and Dolby Vision, I don't know how likely that is though.

Still hyped for CES.
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,080
Anyone been checking out The Witcher in 4K HDR on the X? That looks bloody lovely :)
 
MadScientist

MadScientist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
919
OLEDs are currently a little out of my price range. Looking to get a 65in TV for my new house. Large living rooms, so I want 65 and not 55in. Thus why the OLED price being a bit out of my range. I'm currently looking at a Samsung UN65U8000. Anyone have an opinion on this TV? I've always had good luck with Samsung and this looks like the best LED I'll be able to get at 65in that's not OLED.
 
Tunesmith

Tunesmith

Fraud & Player Security
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,945
Just received my LG OLED55B7 yesterday after waiting a long time since purchasing after a Black Friday deal.

I am blown away by the quality of the display and HDR is really something. After calibration I don't see any apparent color banding or similar artifacts mentioned here and there in the thread.

Upgrading from an 40" Philips LED it is quite the step up. All around very happy with the result (I do miss my ambilight from my LED though, may need to look into third party solutions..).
 
Maynerd

Maynerd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,534
Redmond, WA
I'm about a week away from my 30 day return policy for my LG B7...I can't unsee the vertical bar in the 2% of the content that it is visible but it's annoying everytime I see it. LOL Not sure if I want to play panel lottery and get a worse one. Decisions....
 
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