Kimura

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Nov 4, 2017
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Link to Articlefrom Mandatory that came out last year, during 300s 10 year anniversary.


Ten years later the hateful undertones of 300 have only grown more stark, and I think it's finally safe to say out loud that Snyder's film – however striking its visuals – is one of the ugliest, meanest, most morally irresponsible films of the last decade. It is an overblown assault on decency, encouraging exclusion and hate, and openly celebrating fascism and oversimplification. In the current political climate of exclusion, isolationism, and a presidential administration that seems hellbent on keeping Middle Easterners out of the country, 300 may prove to be the most divisive film imaginable.



Washington Post had an article that went into how the far-right worships 300, both the fiction and the real life events.

imrs.php



Every year, Golden Dawn, an anti-immigrant Greek neo-Nazi party, holds a rally at a rugged mountain pass once known as the "hot gates," because of the sulfuric springs bubbling beneath. It's the site where a small band of Spartan warriors stalled the might of the advancing Persian empire almost 2,500 years ago. The Golden Dawn members gather, torches in hand, around a bronze statue of the Spartan King Leonidas — who famously perished alongside his 300 companions — sing the national anthem and chant far-right slogans. "Greece belongs to the Greeks!" goes one cry. "People! Army! Nationalism!" is another.


"The Spartan chant,'We are what you were; we will be what you are,' " 19th-century French philologist Ernst Renan wrote in his seminal treatise on the idea of a nation, "is, in its simplicity, the abridged hymn of every fatherland."

And consider the opening narration to the 1962 Hollywood film "The 300 Spartans" -- the cinematic precursor to the campy, overly-stylized 2007 "300." At a time when the Cold War was in full swing, it set down the stakes of a clash with the East:

Across the hush of 24 centuries,
this is the story of a turning point in history.
Of a blazing day
when 300 Greek warriors fought here,
to hold with their lives
their freedom ...
and ours.

This is a powerful claim that many in the West intuitively accept: Thermopylae is the Alamo of antiquity, a doomed contest between the brave few and a gargantuan foe that stirred their compatriots to action. Had Xerxes, a Persian emperor, snuffed out all Greek resistance, then the scattered city-states on the western side of the Aegean Sea would have just become one more province of what was a vast, mutli-ethnic empire.

Basically it's easy to sum all of this up as being on Miller and his toxic political views, but he is not the orchestrator of the myths of the foundation of western philosophy. The 300 story is everywhere in the western world. Snyder and Millers 300 just took it to Hollywood and a whole new audience.


Whatever the historical merits of this belief — and more on that below — the ghost of Leonidas looms large in the right-wing imagination. A host of far-right groups, including neo-Nazi organizations in the United States and Australia, have invoked this history in their own political iconography. The anonymous blogger who translated the anti-immigrant writings of Norwegian terrorist Anders Breivik into more than a dozen languages went by the screen name "Angus Thermopylae."

You can get a taste of the phenomenon through a search on Twitter or Google for the phrase "Molon Labe": translated roughly as "come and take it," the laconic response Leonidas is said to have given to an envoy of the Persian emperor who demanded the Spartans lay down their arms.

Since the popularization of the "300" story, "Molon Labe" became a kind of code word for gun-rights supporters in the United States, as well as the tea party movement, a catchall slogan for those irked by the invasive power of the federal government and the supposed leftist aim to take away their weapons. On social media, that messaging now co-exists with #maga — "Make America Great Again" -- and other online slang used by Trump supporters.

In some ways it is almost gospel. 300 shows the heroic struggle and that it's worth dying for. Even if you're outnumbered, you should think of Leonidas and protect your home from the evil foreign hordes from the east.


"Ancient Sparta is proto-fascist," Paul Cartledge, a celebrated British classicist and author of "Thermopylae: The Battle That Changed the World," among numerous other works on ancient Greece, said in an interview with WorldViews.

Although the clash between Greeks and Persians may be remembered now as the battle that crystallized Western liberty, the ancient Spartans were no model democrats — even in their time. Their society was communal and militarist. It practiced early forms of eugenics and infanticide. It kept a huge slave population in thrall to its warrior elite. Some contemporary scholars even liken conditions in the city-state to a kind of apartheid.

For all these reasons, Nazi leader Adolf Hitler happened to be a huge admirer of Sparta.

"Sparta must be regarded as the first völkisch state," Hitler once said, referring to a racially ordered polity. "The exposure of the sick, weak, deformed children, in short, their destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more human than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most pathological subject."

In his desolation of Europe and mass slaughter of millions, the Nazi leader saw himself marching in the wake of Spartan hoplites.

Hitler admired the Spartans greatly for their eugenics, strong slave state. It's not a coincidence that totalitarian thinkers see the fascination in Spartans military prowess from killing the weak of society. The dream is to have a small state of elite warriors and cut off the disabled, the weak- those who need handouts and those who want to mooch.
To add to injury the Spartans where traitors to greece itself and would later align with the persian enemies to get back at Athens. Hilariously in the film, Leonidas accuses them of being gay pedophiles, but in reality that shit was rampant in sparty as well. There is this oozing of homophobic yet homoerotic mixed signaling in the film. This clutch of vain halfnaked oiled up beefcakes in small briefs and waxed bodies, contrasting with this ultra macho manliness.

______________________

Do you agree that 300 is a problematic film, or do you think it's reaching? I loved 300 when it came out, but the more I think about it upon reading things like this, the more I think this film is fucked.

There are films that are controversial today where I think there is a good argument on both sides of the spectrum (The Last Samurai being an example), but this film is different, and that Washington Post article goes into detail about why the Spartans where not at all like they where portrayed in the film.
 

Richiek

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Nov 2, 2017
12,063
Even when it first came out, people have criticized 300 for being racist right wing trash, which it is.
 

Wooden Robot

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Oct 27, 2017
736
I thought it was pretty good when it came out, but more style over substance, some of the images were straight rips of comic panels which was unique at the time. I guess you can take any movie and twist it to your own political agenda.
 

Disco

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Oct 25, 2017
11,580
Snyder's need to be slavish to these graphic novels backfired in that it also incorporated Miller's nasty political undertones as well sadly

The visual translation and action was cool tho. But its prolly my least favorite zack snyder movie of the ones I've seen (alongside justice league) and this is a major reason why. I wish I could see it as just a super buffed up action flick but the racial and political messages in here are too obvious for me to overlook

As for the alt right coopting some shit from 300, I dont begrudge the movie for it but it is unfortunate that there is a portion of its fanbase with these beliefs
 
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broncobuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,139
The 300 sequel gets ignored, probably because it ain't a great movie or anything, but as a mostly original work it serves to dispute and go against the messages of the first. Kinda funny in that way.

For better or worse, 300 is nearly perfect adaptation of Frank Miller's book.
 

GitarooMan

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Oct 27, 2017
703
An interesting question is which movie is more fucked up: 300 or Sucker Punch? And Snyder wrote the screenplay for Sucker Punch.
 

tino

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Oct 25, 2017
1,561
If a DC fan have a time machine, he would go back and sabotage this Snyder movie.
 

CrazyAndy

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Oct 27, 2017
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Liked it back then, still like it today. Mostly because of its style and visuals. Don't really care if it's historically accurate.
 

Rosenkrantz

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Jan 17, 2018
4,998
Not Snyder's fault that Frank Miller turned into warmonger at the end of his career. Sure, he could've polished the turd, but I doubt that many people look at the 300 and think about political commentary it makes, for most it'll forever stay a tale of buff dudes kicking shit in slo-mo.
 

Deleted member 2809

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Oct 25, 2017
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The 300 sequel gets ignored, probably because it ain't a great movie or anything, but as a mostly original work it serves to dispute and go against the messages of the first. Kinda funny in that way.

For better or worse, 300 is nearly perfect adaptation of Frank Miller's book.
The sequel did boat sex before it was cool.
 

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 27, 2017
18,961
Upstate NY
Isn't 300 based on a comic or so? Or am I wrong?

Based on a comic by an openly mysogynistic, racist asshole. Yes.

The Spartans are basically the perfect race all Nazi's and alt-righters go after. Before they learned anything in school, they learned to fight. They specifically threw children atop a mountain to made sure they would survive a night of exposure, otherwise they were cast out for being weak. They didn't have a belief in family or familial structure, to them the people was the family, much like the alt-right pushes for love of country over love of family.

It's precisely why God of War is so refreshing, especially the most recent game, and the growth of Kratos as a character. He originally was that Spartan badass, wanting only power and dominance. Now, he realizes that the true importance of life is the family and who you bring into this world, not power for ones self.
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,580
The 300 sequel gets ignored, probably because it ain't a great movie or anything, but as a mostly original work it serves to dispute and go against the messages of the first. Kinda funny in that way.

For better or worse, 300 is nearly perfect adaptation of Frank Miller's book.

The black sabbath remix from junkiexl was so dope.

Also eva green is a great villain.
 

Fudgepuppy

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Oct 27, 2017
4,306
I never got the feeling that the movie celebrated facism, much like how I never got the feeling that Wolf of Wall Street celebrated excess and greed.

Haven't seen it in a while though, but isn't the gist basically that war hungry powers will fight for stupid reasons until everyone's dead?
 

Gatti-man

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Jan 31, 2018
2,359
People will find inspiration in whatever they want. It's a comic book movie and enjoyable for what it was.
 

Zocano

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Oct 26, 2017
2,027
I think 300 is a fun and enjoyable movie. Definitely some racist underpinnings unfortunately. On the plus side I think Lena Headey as Gorgo is great and a strong character within the movie.
 

BriGuy

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Oct 27, 2017
4,275
The harsh film grain is certainly uglier than ever. I can't say I really took notice of any political messages in the film though. It was just muscle men beating up on each other in my eyes, like WWE with swords.
 

Fubar

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Oct 25, 2017
2,746
I loved 300 when it came out, but the more I think about it upon reading things like this, the more I think this film is fucked.

This is pretty much where I am at, OP. Agree with you here. I really enjoyed the 2nd one too.

Probably the best things 300 did were to help launch the career of Michael Fassbender and to help provide the style that the Spartacus TV series would go on to steal, change, and perfect.
 

Chairman Yang

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,587
I liked, and still like 300, and think it's silly to worry about what the alt-right embraces or hates.

That said, the historical Spartans did have a horrible, proto-fascist society and deserved their fate of losing power and fading into irrelevance. On the other hand, ancient Persia was a surprisingly progressive civilization for the time, and any sane person would have chosen to live there over Sparta.
 

GungHo

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Nov 27, 2017
6,283
Molon Labe was used by the gun nuts well before the movie/comic.

My biggest issue with the movie was the portrayal of the Persians. Even if the people they were portraying have been dead for just about 2500 years, that's still a culture that living people identify with.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,078
You mean the movie where the women are seen as nothing but sex objects might have a Frank Miller problem?

This is my shocked face.
 

Chasex

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Oct 29, 2017
1,707
This reads like an onion article, I mean jesus christ its a fucking comic book movie. People just seeing what they want to see, I guess.

I hate to be the one getting outraged over people getting outraged but this shit is just ridiculous lately. I wonder if others even realize how toxic and offputting this type of witch hunting is?
 

Zoc

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Oct 27, 2017
1,017
It was a shitty movie then and its shitty now. I couldn't even sit through half of it.
 

cognizant

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Dec 19, 2017
13,757
Yeah I rewatched the movie a couple years ago and was struck by how ugly it was. Dark skinned people, lesbians and the disabled are portrayed as the enemy.

Fuck that movie
 

Disco

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Oct 25, 2017
11,580
I liked, and still like 300, and think it's silly to worry about what the alt-right embraces or hates.

That said, the historical Spartans did have a horrible, proto-fascist society and deserved their fate of losing power and fading into irrelevance. On the other hand, ancient Persia was a surprisingly progressive civilization for the time, and any sane person would have chosen to live there over Sparta.

They should make a third movie that puts this into perspective and follows the persians. I'd be down for that, I enjoyed the sequel more than the first anyways
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,600
…There was a political message in it?
Liked the movie, still do! It's just a fun movie to watch and because of it's visuals.

I found part two horrible.
 
OP
OP
Kimura

Kimura

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,034
Not Snyder's fault that Frank Miller turned into warmonger at the end of his career. Sure, he could've polished the turd, but I doubt that many people look at the 300 and think about political commentary it makes, for most it'll forever stay a tale of buff dudes kicking shit in slo-mo.

I actually think that many people learn about history from films like this. Yeah it has monsters in it, but the Spartans where the good guys. The film was right about that.


I didn't know that the Spartans actually sided with the Persians later to get back at the Athenians. So they where basically traitors who Hitler adored. In the film Leonidas taunts about how the Athenians are boylovers and homosexuals. Ironic, when Spartan society had a lot homosexuality and pedophelia activity going on. The film is devoid of slaves and disabiled/weak children being thrown at the cliffs.


If the film was just an inspirational take, why paint the white people as the good guys, and not also have strong fighters on the persian side? When the persian empire was way more free and liberal than the Spartan.
It's like if you make a film in 2400 years about Adolf Hitler and his brave soldiers final stand against western colonial powers. While doom was imminent, they fought to the end. Wouldn't you think it would be a little bit weird to characterise manners in such a way and then defend it as something one just took inspiration from?

It's not really that its unrealistic, but there is no real plot device in making the enemy one dimensional brain dead evil oppressors when Spartans where among the most cruel around. You're not giving an adequette picture of the spartan way of life if youre stripping them out of all the things that made them horrifying, cold, cynical and fascist. The whole idea of executing people with disabillities is a fascist wet dream, and the core tennant of the spartan way of life. Neo Nazis rally around the idea of even though they are outnumbered they can beat impossible odds over lesser people.

That to me is just bonkers. 300 is seems like it's propaganda rather than a brain dead action film. It seems deliberate and intentional. This is not like Exodus (tone deaf) or The Wall (White hero trope) - This is downright malicious.

I just never noticed it because the presentation and the 10,000 fps ultra slow mo was so much fun. But like the BF V trailer threads yesterday showed, many people have this weird ambiguity with historical authenticity. 300s inclusion of supernatural monsters and ninjas is not really the problem. The problem is that the film goes out to make a point of that persians are not even human. The Orcs from lord of the rings have more character and personality. And they are the proto evil creatures of the 20th century.
 

fallingedge

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Oct 25, 2017
5,855
If the alt right love this movie so much, how come all the they are all fat and sloppy trashbags? You would think they would use this movie as motivatation to get in shape.
 
OP
OP
Kimura

Kimura

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,034
This reads like an onion article, I mean jesus christ its a fucking comic book movie. People just seeing what they want to see, I guess.

I hate to be the one getting outraged over people getting outraged but this shit is just ridiculous lately. I wonder if others even realize how toxic and offputting this type of witch hunting is?

I think there are cases where it's legit not helpful to give the alt-right all that attention.

But the 300 spartans is a false myth of the birth of western democracy that people in the west have praised ever since the events. It's not about the film as that is just a symptom, it's about this false idea that morons rally fake nationalistic history. They don't even realize that so much of the west are based of the persian empire, and the Spartans where a bunch of traitors who turned against their own. So why the worship? (not talking about the film).
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,327
It is a comic book movie with monsters.
This reads like an onion article, I mean jesus christ its a fucking comic book movie. People just seeing what they want to see, I guess.

I hate to be the one getting outraged over people getting outraged but this shit is just ridiculous lately. I wonder if others even realize how toxic and offputting this type of witch hunting is?

Nerds not being able to comprehend that comic books contain political messages or being outraged that they are open for criticism will never not be funny.