The Expanse S4 |OT| Amazon Prime's Legitimate Salvage

Moff · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
Is the reason why you dropped the book because

the story becomes about Laconia taking over rather than being about the mysteries of the ringbuilders?

I don't even know about Laconia, I dropped the books after book 5, which was a welcome focus on the characters and inter factional struggles than the alien narrative which I felt was going nowhere in book 4, wich is why I didn't trust the authors to come up with something interesting in that regard. I wonder if pulled that off by now. I read the wiki plot preludes which are very broad but I read about a 30 year gap and some dude who founded an empire which might make things interesting.

Nooblet · Dec 15, 2019

Moff said:
I don't even know about Laconia, I dropped the books after book 5, which was a welcome focus on the characters and inter factional struggles than the alien narrative which I felt was going nowhere in book 4, wich is why I didn't trust the authors to come up with something interesting in that regard. I wonder if pulled that off by now. I read the wiki plot preludes which are very broad but I read about a 30 year gap and some dude who founded an empire which might make things interesting.

Oh then you should pick up the books because that's basically what the story becomes about. Laconia is the system introduced at the end of book 5 where all the secessionists are escaping to, that's what becomes the empire. The alien stuff gets dialled down considerably and apparently goes nowhere, which is what disappoints me lol.

Moff · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
Oh then you should pick up the books because that's basically what the story becomes about. Laconia is the system introduced at the end of book 5 where all the secessionists are escaping to, that's what becomes the empire. The alien stuff gets dialled down considerably and apparently goes nowhere, which is what disappoints me lol.

I think I want the same things like you, it's just a bit complicated.
while I DID welcome the focus on characters in book 5 I actually wanted the larger alien narrative to be more interesting, which is why I dropped the books, because book 4 was poor and book 5 had nothing in that regard. and while I think book 5 was great, of course I want the alien narrative to move forward and be interesting, I just didn't trust the authors to pull it off. and if I understand you correctly what hasn't happened, yet?

CrazyIvan1978 · Dec 15, 2019

Man, just watched the first episode, and something is off...

KHarvey16 · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
Oh then you should pick up the books because that's basically what the story becomes about. Laconia is the system introduced at the end of book 5 where all the secessionists are escaping to, that's what becomes the empire. The alien stuff gets dialled down considerably and apparently goes nowhere, which is what disappoints me lol.

Have you read book 8?

Nooblet · Dec 15, 2019

Moff said:
I think I want the same things like you, it's just a bit complicated.
while I DID welcome the focus on characters in book 5 I actually wanted the larger alien narrative to be more interesting, which is why I dropped the books, because book 4 was poor and book 5 had nothing in that regard. and while I think book 5 was great, of course I want the alien narrative to move forward and be interesting, I just didn't trust the authors to pull it off. and if I understand you correctly what hasn't happened, yet?

Yes atleast so far it hasn't happened, I'm in book 6.
The thing that annoys me is that I was perfectly happy with faction politics and human conspiracies with a touch of alien stuff like protomolecule macguffin thrown in, and I'd have been happy if the whole series was about that and ended in 5-6 books. But when they introduce investigator and start talking about "what happened to the builders?", "who killed the builders?", "are these two ancient entities still around?", show large unexplained builder structures that no one can comprehend, then I expect some sort of payoff and meaningful resolution there etc. You can still open up the universe to all these planets and have it only be about humans provided you don't raise those questions specifically in story.

But from what I understand book 4-6 is buildup and formation of Empire and book 7-9 are about something else (maybe a revolution and insurgency against the empire?). It'd have been nice if 4-6 were sped up with empire stuff happening early in book 5 (4 is too draggy so it can be condensed considerably, and 6 is about beginning of a revolution. Then you can resolve the insurgency (if that's what the later books are about) in book 7 & half of book 8 and give a payoff for the alien stuff in later half of book 8 and book 9.

Regardless, I'm hoping for something but not really expecting much on the alien stuff. Let's wait and see.

KHarvey16 said:
Have you read book 8?

Nah

Nooblet · Dec 15, 2019

CrazyIvan1978 said:
Man, just watched the first episode, and something is off...

Maybe the wider aspect ratio and the dodgy CGI at the very start of when they go to the new location?

CrazyIvan1978 · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
Maybe the wider aspect ratio and the dodgy CGI at the very start of when they go to the new location?

No, that's not it. The pacing, the dialogue, I don't know, I'll just chalk it up to it being the first episode of the season.

Ruruja · Dec 15, 2019

Just finished ep3, show's getting gooood.

Gotta love Amos.

KHarvey16 · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
Nah

Ah ok. I read your spoiler here too. All I'll say is the outline you've been given about what to expect isn't really accurate, so go in open minded and enjoy!

CrazyIvan1978 · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
Maybe the wider aspect ratio and the dodgy CGI at the very start of when they go to the new location?

The CGI is weird, so that's part of it

Nooblet · Dec 15, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
Ah ok. I read your spoiler here too. All I'll say is the outline you've been given about what to expect isn't really accurate, so go in open minded and enjoy!

That's great then, I've recently switched to audio book and enjoying it.

KHarvey16 · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
That's great then, I've recently switched to audio book and enjoying it.

Jefferson Mays does a great job as the narrator. He does I think 3 of 5 novellas as well, which you should listen to if you haven't already!

Ricker · Dec 15, 2019

I hope CTV Sci-Fi channel,which was previously Space(Canada) and carried the first 3 seasons will air this at some point.

Einchy · Dec 15, 2019

The budget increase is soooo noticeable. This shit looks gorgeous.

DominicanPower · Dec 15, 2019

I liked that we get to see Bobby grow and have more layers of depth to her. Amos also grew a lot. He has a lot of respect for Holden now. Just when the show was getting into to gear, it ends.

DominicanPower · Dec 15, 2019

Einchy said:
The budget increase is soooo noticeable. This shit looks gorgeous.

Looks like a movie.

StopMakingSense · Dec 15, 2019

Oh hey Murtry's second in command was Huey's girlfriend in The Boys. Wasn't sure what I recognized her for.

RandomSeed · Dec 15, 2019

StopMakingSense said:
Oh hey Murtry's second in command was Huey's girlfriend in The Boys. Wasn't sure what I recognized her for.

That's why she looked familiar. Nice.

SofNascimento · Dec 15, 2019

Am surprised of people saying they felt the budget increase. I thought the average was very similar to the previous seasons.

RandomSeed · Dec 15, 2019

SofNascimento said:
Am surprised of people saying they felt the budget increase. I thought the average was very similar to the previous seasons.

Only iffy thing was the landing area. Shots from space were amazing, and all the computer hologram stuff was a big improvement.

Nooblet · Dec 15, 2019

The widescreen Ilus scenes were obviously filmed with a better camera, additionally it seems they did outdoor location shoots this time around. They've never done that before, the also never showed Martian cities from outside before.

SofNascimento · Dec 15, 2019

RandomSeed said:
Only iffy thing was the landing area. Shots from space were amazing, and all the computer hologram stuff was a big improvement.

I thought some shots from the settlement were also only ok. And I'm not saying the CGI was bad, just that it is as good as it was on previous seasons. Take, for example, the reactor explosion from episode 6. It wasn't better than Eros striking Venus in season 2. Some shots from Ilus weren't that good, but the shots from episode 9 when the roman tech start to wake up were incredible.

RandomSeed · Dec 15, 2019

Nooblet said:
The widescreen Ilus scenes were obviously filmed with a better camera, additionally it seems they did outdoor location shoots this time around. They've never done that before, the also never showed Martian cities from outside before.

Mars stuff was so cool. Total Recall vibes.

Doc Laserstein · Dec 15, 2019

Amos intentionally getting Murtry's name wrong as a running gag shouldn't work as well as it does.

lt519 · Dec 15, 2019

A lot of folks also streamed the first few seasons off of syfy.com, like myself, at 1080i or some crap like that and are now watching it in 4k HDR via a native TV app. That alone will make it look like a bigger budget just because it looks better lol.

I think the grand sweeping shots of the landscape are just something we haven't had before and it really reminds me of bigger budget production. Everything has always been so claustrophobic making it feel like tiny sets re-used over and over and here we have folks traveling across a planet. Just the openness makes it feel bigger budget.

So even if the budgets are similar to the past, it just feels bigger.

Nooblet · Dec 15, 2019

SofNascimento said:
I thought some shots from the settlement were also only ok. And I'm not saying the CGI was bad, just that it is as good as it was on previous seasons. Take, for example, the reactor explosion from episode 6. It wasn't better than Eros striking Venus in season 2. Some shots from Ilus weren't that good, but the shots from episode 9 when the roman tech start to wake up were incredible.

They already had good CG, it was just very small scale. Confided rooms, everything in close up to avoid showing too much detail, almost no outdoor shoots (the little we saw were all corridors or small sets). This season they don't hold back on the scale and likely have actual location shoots. That's where the budget comes I think.

FreezePeach · Dec 15, 2019

On the 8th episode now and its gotten better. Great season so far.

SofNascimento · Dec 15, 2019

lt519 said:
A lot of folks also streamed the first few seasons off of syfy.com, like myself, at 1080i or some crap like that and are now watching it in 4k HDR via a native TV app. That alone will make it look like a bigger budget just because it looks better lol.

I think the grand sweeping shots of the landscape are just something we haven't had before and it really reminds me of bigger budget production. Everything has always been so claustrophobic making it feel like tiny sets re-used over and over and here we have folks traveling across a planet. Just the openness makes it feel bigger budget.

So even if the budgets are similar to the past, it just feels bigger.

Nooblet said:
They already had good CG, it was just very small scale. Confided rooms, everything in close up to avoid showing too much detail, almost no outdoor shoots (the little we saw were all corridors or small sets). This season they don't hold back on the scale and likely have actual location shoots. That's where the budget comes I think.

Those are good points. But when it comes to things that we can actually can compare, I'd say they are roughly equivalent. Say, the interior of Mars and the interior of Ceres.

RandomSeed · Dec 15, 2019

SofNascimento said:
Those are good points. But when it comes to things that we can actually can compare, I'd say they are roughly equivalent. Say, the interior of Mars and the interior of Ceres.

Remember that CGI sparrow on Ceres? Now think of the CGI stuff they have going on when walking around Mars. A bunch of stuff is going to be similar, sure, but there are more touch ups, extra effects, and possible scenarios due to the increased budget. Like the sets will be similar, sure. But then you get more outdoor and spacious areas.

Nooblet · Dec 15, 2019

SofNascimento said:
Those are good points. But when it comes to things that we can actually can compare, I'd say they are roughly equivalent. Say, the interior of Mars and the interior of Ceres.

Yea ofc, the actual CGI itself is roughly on par but the scope is large, except for the landing in first episode which is hilariously off and shaded/lit all wrong. Thankfully this is the only instance in the whole season where it looks bad. The interesting thing is that this scene was in the first trailer as well, released earlier this year so that means it was one of the first VFX shots to be done, so it's odd that it was unfinished still.

RandomSeed · Dec 15, 2019

There it is, yeah, the landing looks like George Lucas did it.

FreezePeach · Dec 15, 2019

Who even cares, its a single shot from the first episode where the rest of the season looks pretty great.

SofNascimento · Dec 15, 2019

RandomSeed said:
Remember that CGI sparrow on Ceres? Now think of the CGI stuff they have going on when walking around Mars. A bunch of stuff is going to be similar, sure, but there are more touch ups, extra effects, and possible scenarios due to the increased budget. Like the sets will be similar, sure. But then you get more outdoor and spacious areas.

You might be right. But more CGI is not the same of better CGI. So even if Amazon's money allowed for shots that wouldn't be possible before, the ones that were possible are as good as anything this season. Although, of course, there was bad CGI before too.

Nooblet · Dec 15, 2019

RandomSeed said:
There it is, yeah, the landing looks like George Lucas did it.

The thing is, it should be an easy enough fix. The biggest problem is that the whole ship, especially the ramp, has no contact shadows. A smaller issue is that the characters are lit too brightly compared to the sky, so dimming the lighting on the characters and then giving them an AO pass should make it better. It should be something that a single person should be able to do in like no time, but it was probably overlooked and by the time it got noticed it was probably too late to make any changes.

Teuthex · Dec 15, 2019

Moff said:
I think I want the same things like you, it's just a bit complicated.
while I DID welcome the focus on characters in book 5 I actually wanted the larger alien narrative to be more interesting, which is why I dropped the books, because book 4 was poor and book 5 had nothing in that regard. and while I think book 5 was great, of course I want the alien narrative to move forward and be interesting, I just didn't trust the authors to pull it off. and if I understand you correctly what hasn't happened, yet?

The poster who replied to you hasn't read books 7&8. My personal take on the issues you have, trying to stay vague:

Book 6 concludes the factional drama of book 5, and establishes a new status quo which ensues for the 30 year time skip. However, a new wrinkle in the aliens story is introduced, tying a phenomena present during gate transit to whatever killed the gate builders.
Book 7 takes place when the long peace and process of expansion to the 1300 worlds finally breaks, with the factional drama re-igniting with new alliances and players. The alien story is more in the background, but there is a creeping dread because it is revealed that whatever killed the gate builders is still around, and humanity in its reckless expansion and appropriation of alien tech that they don't understand might have just poked god in the eye.
Book 8 continues the factional drama, and the hubris of one faction makes understanding what happened to the gate builders and what killed them seem increasingly essential to the survival of humanity.
Book 9 will likely deal with whether humanity in its current form can survive the onslaught of the angry god that they have provoked. I personally don't think so. I think the gate network will be destroyed, and humanity will be stranded and isolated in systems across the galaxy. I am just worried that our heroes won't all be in the same system when the gates come down.

SofNascimento · Dec 15, 2019

Teuthex said:
The poster who replied to you hasn't read books 7&8. My personal take on the issues you have, trying to stay vague:

Book 6 concludes the factional drama of book 5, and establishes a new status quo which ensues for the 30 year time skip. However, a new wrinkle in the aliens story is introduced, tying a phenomena present during gate transit to whatever killed the gate builders.
Book 7 takes place when the long peace and process of expansion to the 1300 worlds finally breaks, with the factional drama re-igniting with new alliances and players. The alien story is more in the background, but there is a creeping dread because it is revealed that whatever killed the gate builders is still around, and humanity in its reckless expansion and appropriation of alien tech that they don't understand might have just poked god in the eye.
Book 8 continues the factional drama, and the hubris of one faction makes understanding what happened to the gate builders and what killed them seem increasingly essential to the survival of humanity.
Book 9 is called Tiamat's wrath. Tiamat is a primordial goddess of chaos and creation, and is often depicted as a dragon (and is also an endgame-difficulty dragon/demon in D&D). This suggests to me that the finale will deal with whether humanity can survive the onslaught of the angry god that they have provoked. I personally don't think so. I think the gate network will be destroyed, and humanity will be stranded and isolated in systems across the galaxy. I am just worried that our heroes won't all be in the same system when the gates come down.

Funny, I have the opposite feeling:

I predict a very happy ending for The Expanse, with the Goth threat dealt for good and the ring gates safe and sound. And I don't think it will be even that hard to kill them.

killerrin · Dec 15, 2019

Just finished everything. Holy fucking shit was that good, I'm shaking. Thank fucking god that Amazon saved the show. A year is going to be a long time to wait for the next season

Teuthex · Dec 15, 2019

SofNascimento said:
Funny, I have the opposite feeling:

I predict a very happy ending for The Expanse, with the Goth threat dealt for good and the ring gates safe and sound. And I don't think it will be even that hard to kill them.

I actually hope so too. Too many epic and escapist series feel like they end on a downer note just to be edgy or 'deep'. It would certainly make the TV show a pleasure to rewatch! I am still thinking that the gates go down however, or at least the Sol system is isolated.

KHarvey16 · Dec 15, 2019

Teuthex said:
The poster who replied to you hasn't read books 7&8. My personal take on the issues you have, trying to stay vague:

Book 6 concludes the factional drama of book 5, and establishes a new status quo which ensues for the 30 year time skip. However, a new wrinkle in the aliens story is introduced, tying a phenomena present during gate transit to whatever killed the gate builders.
Book 7 takes place when the long peace and process of expansion to the 1300 worlds finally breaks, with the factional drama re-igniting with new alliances and players. The alien story is more in the background, but there is a creeping dread because it is revealed that whatever killed the gate builders is still around, and humanity in its reckless expansion and appropriation of alien tech that they don't understand might have just poked god in the eye.
Book 8 continues the factional drama, and the hubris of one faction makes understanding what happened to the gate builders and what killed them seem increasingly essential to the survival of humanity.
Book 9 is called Tiamat's wrath. Tiamat is a primordial goddess of chaos and creation, and is often depicted as a dragon (and is also an endgame-difficulty dragon/demon in D&D). This suggests to me that the finale will deal with whether humanity can survive the onslaught of the angry god that they have provoked. I personally don't think so. I think the gate network will be destroyed, and humanity will be stranded and isolated in systems across the galaxy. I am just worried that our heroes won't all be in the same system when the gates come down.

You mixed up the book 9 name. That's the name of book 8!

shenden · Dec 15, 2019

Finished it, loved it. Definitely not the best season, but the way this show builds up the momentum and manage to always have intense scenes that makes me sit at the edge of my seat will always be impressive to me.

Was this the last time we'll hear from Miller? I'm going to miss him since Thomas Jane was the reason I started watching this show.

Teuthex · Dec 15, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
You mixed up the book 9 name. That's the name of book 8!

lol I'll fix it. I was so sure that I remembered them announcing the title for the last book, and I just thought 'yeah, I know what the most recent book title in the series is! 😜'

Turns out I need to do a re-read!

Chiaroscuro · Dec 15, 2019

Up to episode 7.

One criticism: for a series based on hard science (aside from the protomolecule stuff) they keep forgetting the delay in communications. Faster than light com?

Like Avasarala war room on Earth watching the boarding of the belter ship live when it was inside the Belt. Even if the ship was near, there should be minutes of delay. Several other times the show did that this season, like when Holden's message only took 6 hours from Ilos to Earth (even considering the Ring relay system, the distance from Ilus to its system gate and Sol Gate to Earth should cause a bigger delay).

KHarvey16 · Dec 16, 2019

Teuthex said:
lol I'll fix it. I was so sure that I remembered them announcing the title for the last book, and I just thought 'yeah, I know what the most recent book title in the series is! 😜'

Turns out I need to do a re-read!

Just started re-listening to the audio books after I finished season 4. Have to kill time somehow between now and season 5 so might as well go over some of the details I've probably forgotten lol.

Chiaroscuro said:
Up to episode 7.

One criticism: for a series based on hard science (aside from the protomolecule stuff) they keep forgetting the delay in communications. Faster than light com?

Like Avasarala war room on Earth watching the boarding of the belter ship live when it was inside the Belt. Even if the ship was near, there should be minutes of delay. Several other times the show did that this season, like when Holden's message only took 6 hours from Ilos to Earth.

6 hours seems reasonable. The data goes through the gates too.

Killthee · Dec 16, 2019

Ricker said:
I hope CTV Sci-Fi channel,which was previously Space(Canada) and carried the first 3 seasons will air this at some point.

Doubt that will ever happen. AFAIK, Amazon holds the exclusive rights worldwide now. Use a prime trial and binge it all if you dont wanna give them money.

Dr Doom · Dec 16, 2019

I'm going to savor this. Might only watch 1-2 episodes per week

Dunno · Dec 16, 2019

RandomSeed said:
Mars stuff was so cool. Total Recall vibes.

That was also my plan... season was so good I just kept going!

StopMakingSense · Dec 16, 2019

Chiaroscuro said:
Several other times the show did that this season, like when Holden's message only took 6 hours from Ilos to Earth (even considering the Ring relay system, the distance from Ilus to its system gate and Sol Gate to Earth should cause a bigger delay).

The gate is just past Uranus distance-wise, no? So its like 3 hours give or take to the gate, double that, seems reasonable.

Chiaroscuro · Dec 16, 2019

KHarvey16 said:
6 hours seems reasonable. The data goes through the gates too.

StopMakingSense said:
The gate is just past Uranus distance-wise, no? So its like 3 hours give or take to the gate, double that, seems reasonable.

I was doing the wrong calculations in my mind, and yes you are right, 3 hours to cross each system seems right.

But nothing excuses the real time video Avasarala's room was seeing in episode 7. And the comm to the UN ship.

Deleted member 20297 · Dec 16, 2019

Just finished ep 6 and I am loving it. I hope the ringtech and what's behind it will always be part of the series. I love the characters, too, but don't make the setting arbitrary. I love good science fiction.

The Expanse S4 |OT| Amazon Prime's Legitimate Salvage

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