Japanese developers making it impossible to just play the game, whether it be through bad netcode (Granblue), shit ranking systems (Strive), poor matchmaking (King of FIghters), or a combination of all three (...pretty much every japanese fighter).
The hardest thing about learning a fighting game is __________________
- Thread starter Jaded Alyx
- Start date
Execution and blocking (plus getting out of pressure).
There are two reasons why I'd say execution specifically is the hardest to learn (other than just the inherent difficulty of the precision and speed required). The first is that the motions required are almost entirely different from every other genre, and thus requires learning from the ground up. You basically go from being good at games to being a complete beginner. And that's not a good feeling.
The second is that fighting games don't really give you enough tools to get better. People like to make an analogy to learning a musical instrument, but the key component of learning an instrument, especially as a beginner, is slow practice (practicing a piece of music very slowly). Slow practice lets you take complex sequences (be it musical notes or moves in a combo) and make the incredibly manageable. It also helps build muscle memory, by ensuring that you are practicing slowly enough that you aren't making mistakes. Then, once you are comfortable, you can being increasing the speed until you're playing at an intended tempo. Fighting games don't let you do that - it's always full speed. And there's other stuff too, like it being hard to figure out what exactly you're doing wrong.
Blocking, on the other hand, is hard because it requires intimate knowledge of your opponents setups to know how to get out them. But this is mostly about game knowledge, and at least the theoretical resources are out there. So I'd say it's easier to learn, it's just that you have to learn a lot of it.
Not strictly blocking, but a similar thing is getting out of reset loops. This was one of the things that immediately made me nope out of Skullgirls. Having to know exactly how to get out of resets was pretty much mandatory if you didn't want to die in one hit. To this day I have no idea why so many people recommended it as a good beginner game.
There are two reasons why I'd say execution specifically is the hardest to learn (other than just the inherent difficulty of the precision and speed required). The first is that the motions required are almost entirely different from every other genre, and thus requires learning from the ground up. You basically go from being good at games to being a complete beginner. And that's not a good feeling.
The second is that fighting games don't really give you enough tools to get better. People like to make an analogy to learning a musical instrument, but the key component of learning an instrument, especially as a beginner, is slow practice (practicing a piece of music very slowly). Slow practice lets you take complex sequences (be it musical notes or moves in a combo) and make the incredibly manageable. It also helps build muscle memory, by ensuring that you are practicing slowly enough that you aren't making mistakes. Then, once you are comfortable, you can being increasing the speed until you're playing at an intended tempo. Fighting games don't let you do that - it's always full speed. And there's other stuff too, like it being hard to figure out what exactly you're doing wrong.
Blocking, on the other hand, is hard because it requires intimate knowledge of your opponents setups to know how to get out them. But this is mostly about game knowledge, and at least the theoretical resources are out there. So I'd say it's easier to learn, it's just that you have to learn a lot of it.
Not strictly blocking, but a similar thing is getting out of reset loops. This was one of the things that immediately made me nope out of Skullgirls. Having to know exactly how to get out of resets was pretty much mandatory if you didn't want to die in one hit. To this day I have no idea why so many people recommended it as a good beginner game.
I guess the drive to keep going. I usually get my fill of FG in less than a week. I'm just a big flake when it comes to video games.
Applying what you're doing in training mode to an actual match. There's people who practice forever on a training dummy, and then the dummy moves and they have no idea how to do a combo without jumping in first, during a counter hit, hitting the opponent low etc. There's a lot of situations with optimal answers and a lot of people train for one situation that'll rarely happen, or don't know how to train the person they're against to do what you want them to do so you can land the combo you've been practicing on.
Also pushing a button at the right time. Some people eat counter hits all day, get thrown all day, fall for frame traps on defense. The best players knows how to interrupt what someone else is doing during tense situations whether it be on defense or in neutral.
Also pushing a button at the right time. Some people eat counter hits all day, get thrown all day, fall for frame traps on defense. The best players knows how to interrupt what someone else is doing during tense situations whether it be on defense or in neutral.
Pretty much the same advice you just buffer it from a jump or a normal.
Basic controls. No matter how much I practice, fighting games feel like it's two against one. Me versus the opponent and the controls.
Of course, I can't see if they're fighting the controls, too, but the whole learning a matchup thing comes after I've gotten comfortable controlling my own character. And I can count the amount of fighting game characters, across all games, that I feel comfortable with on one hand. Probably don't need all the fingers either.
Of course, I can't see if they're fighting the controls, too, but the whole learning a matchup thing comes after I've gotten comfortable controlling my own character. And I can count the amount of fighting game characters, across all games, that I feel comfortable with on one hand. Probably don't need all the fingers either.
Play King of Fighters
This is the real wall
I'll do it.
I'm not a streamer so It'll have to be hosted by someone with a twitch account. But the actual setup should be a breeze really.
A. Era members sign up and state their main character and rank
B. Rotate though a SFV battle lounge (8 players at a time)
C. Everyone else watches via twitch
I think that'd be absolutely hilarious and a good session of gaming.
OP
OP
Those aren't important. Location and timezone are what you should be asking for.
Getting everyone to be available at the same time is probably not as easy as you think.
For me it's learning my characters good buttons, outside of characters who have explicitly silly buttons.
There are so many times when I just don't know what I should actually be pressing or not, and I feel like more games should help in that regard via in game tutorials.
Also I gave up trying to understand frame data outside the basics like 12 years ago, and I also tend to panic and become a jumping mess when a fighter doesn't have a run.
There are so many times when I just don't know what I should actually be pressing or not, and I feel like more games should help in that regard via in game tutorials.
Also I gave up trying to understand frame data outside the basics like 12 years ago, and I also tend to panic and become a jumping mess when a fighter doesn't have a run.
Yeah, for some reason, not having a run just puts my mindset to always be jumping, and I don't know why.
It's part of why I just can't play SF at all really.
True. Honestly, some FG needs to do a tournament mode along with their lobbies. Set up time/settings etc. and give out the URL or invite for people to sign up and the system allots matches/confirms bracket results, etc. It cannot be that hard. Sony already has the PS tournaments on PS4, pls expand on it and bring it to PS5.
what to do against x
whenever I ask questions like "how do I counter when (name) does a (move) against (my character)?" "what do I do when joe jump kicks at sarah?" I would only get responses of figure it out yourself
whenever I ask questions like "how do I counter when (name) does a (move) against (my character)?" "what do I do when joe jump kicks at sarah?" I would only get responses of figure it out yourself
OP
OP
the (this character)'s discord. and even since then, whenever I listen to woolie of castle super beast talka bout fighting games, it's always about using the training room to lab it up and figure out things himself, and that's always the advice he gives.
I'm also assuming what I'm talking about is matchups that everyone else is referring to
Weird, every discord I've interacted will try and give me an answer. That said, sometimes people *don't* know the answer so the only way is to figure it out yourself.
OP
OP
Yes that's matchup knowledge.
I think telling people to lab it and figure it out makes sense if the person being asked is not familiar with the character being played, or just doesn't know the answer. But in a character-specific Discord, I'd expect them to at least give some general pointers.
Two major concepts new-to-intermediate players seem to have trouble wrapping their head around are frames and meaties.
Not necessarily memorising frame data or punishes, but more conceptually understanding 'why' they are being repeatedly hit on wake-up despite the fact that, from their perspective, they're using a jab or whatever their character's fastest button is. It's something that can be super frustrating and unintuitive if you don't understand the mechanics behind active/recovery frames etc.
Not necessarily memorising frame data or punishes, but more conceptually understanding 'why' they are being repeatedly hit on wake-up despite the fact that, from their perspective, they're using a jab or whatever their character's fastest button is. It's something that can be super frustrating and unintuitive if you don't understand the mechanics behind active/recovery frames etc.
As someone who's below the level of even a novice, I think it's just the fundamentals.
I have a hard time reliably entering in a combo. I'll try to practice it a bit in a training mode, think I got it down, but then in actual match, I'll mess it up at least half the time. I think it comes down to not having the timing down and/or hitting the wrong buttons in the heat of the moment.
Also related a bit to the first point, but the thing I don't think I'll ever get the hang of is switching from offense to defense, or reacting to the opponent. I feel I often can't react in time to perform blocks, parries, counterattacks, etc. I feel when I'm focused on offense, it's just very hard for me to react to an opponent's moves in times.
I don't doubt overcoming the above involves practicing to get better, but those are the things that have been my main barriers and 'excuse' for being terrible at any given fighting game.
I have a hard time reliably entering in a combo. I'll try to practice it a bit in a training mode, think I got it down, but then in actual match, I'll mess it up at least half the time. I think it comes down to not having the timing down and/or hitting the wrong buttons in the heat of the moment.
Also related a bit to the first point, but the thing I don't think I'll ever get the hang of is switching from offense to defense, or reacting to the opponent. I feel I often can't react in time to perform blocks, parries, counterattacks, etc. I feel when I'm focused on offense, it's just very hard for me to react to an opponent's moves in times.
I don't doubt overcoming the above involves practicing to get better, but those are the things that have been my main barriers and 'excuse' for being terrible at any given fighting game.
For me it is intense execution requirements. My execution is actually quite above average but it takes me a while to grind out some of the more tougher characters. As an example, I'm trying to learn C. Viper from USF4. Very tough. I also find Tekken difficult for this reason, with all Korean Backdashing and most of the characters I like being ridiculously tough to control. Sucks because I have good fundamentals overall and can pick up any fighting and become good quickly. But man... execution...
Gonna have to echo the matchups one. Strive made me realize that more than ever that once you understand a game on a basic level, knowing what each character on the roster is capable of doing and how to counter it is the most difficult thing for me.
A lot of people are giving advices that are definitely legit but are for advanced players that know the genre. For a new player, the actual moves, the combos and having to perform them in an actual match are the dealbreaker. Just learning a combo might take days, applying said combo in a match situation when you need to find an opening and go for it is a whole different beast
Trying to find the window on hitting a button after the motion input. Some games have it slightly before, some slightly after, some at the exact same damn time, some have an insanely narrow window, some have a wide window... Really wish there was a training mode to show WHEN it your movement is the right time to pop it.
Yet players do that after a custom combo in Street Fighter 2.
Same thing. Except fighting games are real and martial arts are fake.
In most fighters, complex controls. All the other shit I have no problem learning and assimilating, or at least still having fun if it's not sinking in. But fighting game motions suck all of the fun right out of the experience in the same way Sonic and the Secret Rings' shitty motion controls ruin the entire experience with their inconsistency. I can't just have fun with friends because for some reason special moves and supers keep failing to happen even when I feel like I did them perfectly. Frame advantage? Matchup knowledge? That's fun to learn and all but Jesus fucking Christ I just want to have fun dicking around in the games my friends are playing but I can't even do that when it feels like I'm playing with a Power Glove.
I've come to accept this about myself. I don't care if the game is MK, VF, or Granblue. If there's a block button I'm not about to play it for long.
if you actually go and watch replays, I think this is a pretty easy fix. Across all genres I think watching replays is something I feel everyone knows is incredibly useful but most people cannot be bothered lol