For people who are new to the genre? Learning that their buttons need to have a purpose, that there's a sequence and a reason to pressing them and knowing what they do. After that? Learning how to block the basic stuff (high, low and jump ins).
Once they break that barrier, learning any FG will certainly be easier (not simple though).
I feel like that's just dependent on who they face, in all honesty. Sure it'll happen eventually, but you're almost guaranteed to get a bunch of smurf accounts on the way there who'll just blow that strategy up.
Against actual beginners/people who genuinely deserve to be in those ranks it'll absolutely work though. That being said though, blocking isn't really something a beginner can just pick up imo. Punishing random stuff and anti-airs is whatever, but blocking high-low mixups and whatever is definitely out of total beginner range.
The only way to test the theory though is to get an actual "so do I press X to jump?' beginner and let them try it.
The number of smurfs you're gonna encounter at Rookie/Bronze is severely overblown. Regardless, smurf or not, no you won't win every match but who does? Eventually I believe you can get there with that strategy (which tbh isn't really a strategy I think people should necessarily adopt, it's just one that works and shows that things can be bit more simple than they may realise).
For people who are new to the genre? Learning that their buttons need to have a purpose, that there's a sequence and a reason to pressing them and knowing what they do. After that? Learning how to block the basic stuff (high, low and jump ins).
Once they break that barrier, learning any FG will certainly be easier (not simple though).
The number of smurfs you're gonna encounter at Rookie/Bronze is severely overblown. Regardless, smurf or not, no you won't win every match but who does? Eventually I believe you can get there with that strategy (which tbh isn't really a strategy I think people should necessarily adopt, it's just one that works and shows that things can be bit more simple than they may realise).
But still, I'd say that's waaaaaay out of reach for a total beginner. Someone who has played casually for years and wants to try and dip their toes in competitive, sure, but not for absolute beginners.
Just block and punish unsafe things has a huge number of exceptions. Like I'd say it's definitely the most consistent way to help improve your gameplay at a base level, but it's not something that you can just do.
But still, I'd say that's waaaaaay out of reach for a total beginner. Someone who has played casually for years and wants to try and dip their toes in competitive, sure, but not for absolute beginners.
Just block and punish unsafe things has a huge number of exceptions. Like I'd say it's definitely the most consistent way to help improve your gameplay at a base level, but it's not something that you can just do.
Right, that's why I wanted to make a thread on it so we could go more in depth. Anti airing can win you matches on its own but you can't just tell someone to just AA, you gotta show them and explain it and tell them what to look for etc.
That's what I get for not reading the last line in the OP :P
For me, well tbh it's the lack of time, I don't dedicate much time to FGs anymore, that's the biggest hurdle for me. Back in the SF4 and MvC3 era I had time to watch tutorials, matches, lab, play ranked mode for hours, go to a friend's house and play, etc. Nowadays I don't have time for that :( It's probably a silly answer, but it's what I feel prevents me from getting better. Hell, I haven't touched KoF XV since launch week :(
For me it's always been managing blocks, when to block, predicting blocks, all of it. I am always terrible at it and end up trying to go hard on the offense instead which almost never works
That's what I get for not reading the last line in the OP :P
For me, well tbh it's the lack of time, I don't dedicate much time to FGs anymore, that's the biggest hurdle for me. Back in the SF4 and MvC3 era I had time to watch tutorials, matches, lab, play ranked mode for hours, go to a friend's house and play, etc. Nowadays I don't have time for that :( It's probably a silly answer, but it's what I feel prevents me from getting better. Hell, I haven't touched KoF XV since launch week :(
I'm pretty sure a total beginner can make it to at least Silver by doing nothing but anti-airs, and just blocking and then punishing sweeps and random DPs. Nothing else. One day I might make a thread about this.
That's pretty much the only way I get wins in SFV. Still though I never made it much futher than hovering between bronze and super bronze. There are enough people I encounter where I find I can't just wait for them to make a mistake like that. Also "just" blocking seems like a massive over simplification as you have to be sure your blocking the right thing.
That's pretty much the only way I get wins in SFV. Still though I never made it much futher than hovering between bronze and super bronze. There are enough people I encounter where I find I can't just wait for them to make a mistake like that. Also "just" blocking seems like a massive over simplification as you have to be sure your blocking the right thing.
I feel like that's just dependent on who they face, in all honesty. Sure it'll happen eventually, but you're almost guaranteed to get a bunch of smurf accounts on the way there who'll just blow that strategy up.
Against actual beginners/people who genuinely deserve to be in those ranks it'll absolutely work though. That being said though, blocking isn't really something a beginner can just pick up imo. Punishing random stuff and anti-airs is whatever, but blocking high-low mixups and whatever is definitely out of total beginner range.
The only way to test the theory though is to get an actual "so do I press X to jump?' beginner and let them try it.
You have to play the game. You have to play the game even if you character gets patched and has glitches now that make them less viable, if they change system mechanics, introduce new characters, change support, alter tournament formats, update the online, accidentally buff strong characters, and god knows what else. You have to still want to play the game and find the motiovation to continue to play the game despite everything the game throws at you. Playing the game is harder than anything else to me.
By and large, knowing the hard numbers WRT frame data isn't super important. They can help, sure, but if you're someone who has issues with remembering them than it's not the end of the world. You can easily get away with throwing out moves and generally experiment to see if you get punished or not. Even Mike "4th Place" Ross didn't bother with frames, famously saying "I don't count frames, I play by feeling." And while it was said half-jokingly, it was still a valid way of learning.
By and large, knowing the hard numbers WRT frame data isn't super important. They can help, sure, but if you're someone who has issues with remembering them than it's not the end of the world. You can easily get away with throwing out moves and generally experiment to see if you get punished or not. Even Mike "4th Place" Ross didn't bother with frames, famously saying "I don't count frames, I play by feeling." And while it was said half-jokingly, it was still a valid way of learning.
That proves the frame data point. You can get literally everything there is to get down, get result, and still struggle handling punishes because of the lack of framedata knowledge.
It's the end all that there is to learn and the hardest thing to keep track of. With random monitors lagging, bad net codes, controller delays. There are a plethora of thing to throw you off.
I always hit a ceiling with matchups I think. I get an intermediate level of skill with a character, but the revolving door of characters always does me in.
like you'll get matched up with someone who's pretty good, who knows their character, and you'll be making mental notes. Can't anti air that, can't punish that, ok can't throw that I guess they're airbourne??
get your clock cleaned, and think alright, i'll get them next time. You don't see that character again for the next 40 matches. Then Oh look who it is. Can't anti air that, can't punish that- well.... i'll get'em next time.
By and large, knowing the hard numbers WRT frame data isn't super important. They can help, sure, but if you're someone who has issues with remembering them than it's not the end of the world. You can easily get away with throwing out moves and generally experiment to see if you get punished or not. Even Mike "4th Place" Ross didn't bother with frames, famously saying "I don't count frames, I play by feeling." And while it was said half-jokingly, it was still a valid way of learning.
"Playing by feel" and testing things out is still implicitly learning frame data, you're just doing it the long way. I know some people's eyes roll back in their head if you ever mention frame data, but it's ultimately just a shortcut so you don't have to test the advantage of every move on hit or block, so you know what combos into what, what sort of oki situation you get after a knockdown etc.
Granted, the knowledge burden can be kind of high in some games (e.g. Tekken), but even there you begin to recognise patterns in how the game is designed - like most hopkicks being -13, for instance.
You simply aren't going to be winning consistently when you first start playing strangers. Learning to deal with that frustration is the hurdle that most players don't get over.
That hurts but it's also why I prefer fighting games over other competitive genres in gaming. I don't like being the reason a team lost. With 1v1 matches, it's easier for me not to take the loss seriously.
I keep coming back to three points. Adaptation in a set (and occasionally within a single round) which is a step more involved than just learning the match-up, being able to identify problems in your play on a macro-level and taking effective steps to address them without burning out, getting side-tracked by another problem, or getting trapped in the training room forever, and being able to recognize positive progress you've made in your play to help you stay motivated.
Keeping at it enough to get good, in arena fighters I just tend to mess about with random since that's fun for me, but with more strategic ones such as street fighter in which not having a main can be a detriment I just struggle to keep at it enough to get good, there's a level of commitment I just don't have the patience for, people who do have always been fascinating to me, I've given it a go in the past but never went the distance. (Side note, my hands genuinely can't do it enough to get good either, feel like I'll permanently damage them trying to master a character in street fighter.)
That hurts but it's also why I prefer fighting games over other competitive genres in gaming. I don't like being the reason a team lost. With 1v1 matches, it's easier for me not to take the loss seriously.
For sure. In a team game the hard part is accepting responsibility and not solely blaming your team mates for an upset.
In a 1v1 the only outputs for toxicity are your opponent and yourself, and both are dangerous.
That proves the frame data point. You can get literally everything there is to get down, get result, and still struggle handling punishes because of the lack of framedata knowledge.
It's the end all that there is to learn and the hardest thing to keep track of. With random monitors lagging, bad net codes, controller delays. There are a plethora of thing to throw you off.
You really dont need to know framedata to handle punishes. You just need to know what punishes what and this can be learned simply just by trial and error. Framedata is just a good tool to figure out possible punishes and situations faster.
I am sure a lot of people have touched on this point by now, but the biggest hurdle is moving past your own ego. If you want to get to a point where you can play a fighting game well, you need to not be taking every loss like it is a personal slap to the face.
That hurts but it's also why I prefer fighting games over other competitive genres in gaming. I don't like being the reason a team lost. With 1v1 matches, it's easier for me not to take the loss seriously.
Same, it's the only genre I've ever spent a lot of time in multiplayer for that reason. I'm more self conscious about team mates being upset with me than I ever am about being an easy win for someone.
Losses only really get to me after a decent time investment. I'll hit a wall of stagnation and feel out of my depth about whats needed to improve. Really the hardest thing about learning fighters for me is knowing in the first place what it is I actually should be working on. I struggle to parse the reams of advice out there.
Accepting that losing a match is OK. You should be playing for the individual moments that occur, not the win, when you start playing. Land that one combo, seek to land a specific poke in a match X times, perform a successful tick throw, etc.
How familiar with the genre in general are you though?
Like I could get SFVI day 1 and climb ranks by playing super conservatively and just punishing silly mistakes, but I've played fighting games super casually since SF2, and I've put time in learning different ones since Super SFIV.
You really dont need to know framedata to handle punishes. You just need to know what punishes what and this can be learned simply just by trial and error. Framedata is just a good tool to figure out possible punishes and situations faster.
The hardest part of learning a fighting game past the most casual of single-player is realizing and internalizing you didn't lose, you let the other person win. Every time you lose is your own damn fault. It has nothing to do with combos, execution, matchup knowledge - those come after realizing you must not let the other person win.
As ProblemX (world-class + champion fighting game player) said: stop asking why does he keep doing that, start asking why am I getting hit by that.
Hmm, my issue with fighting games is that it is hard to know what you did wrong in fighting games. It is much easier to correct yourself in other games, but in fighting games, the how to learn part is a bit of a mystery.
It's definitely matchup knowledge and just keeping up with the meta in general. Getting to a decent level offensively is easy for me, but then I'll drift off to other games and not keep up. When I crave it and come back, I'm hopelessly behind and losing to all kinds of stuff I've never seen before. It was already my biggest issue, but season passes and DLC characters have made it much worse.
Finding someone else in your life who will actually want to play one with you, and isn't intimidated by you asking, as their previous experiences probably weren't great.
If I had someone else, it'd be easier to learn games. I tried playing with folks online via discord, and they usually just weren't good at teaching/had poor social skills.
Im not going to go find a "scene" to hang out at for something Im still not sure how much I like, and just to learn. It's a lot of investment for unknown reward. Nerd culture tends to be hard to parse, you gotta clear some gatekeepers probably, and then find someone who's good at teaching, knows the game, and is a decent person.
Then you have to fit that into your life. Fighting games seem like you're taking up a new sport, learning a language, or an instrument, but with far worse resources available than those, but with similar rewards (it's awesome to learn a discipline and see yourself improve and use what you've learned).
If you can get the right person to teach you, it seems like you can start moving on your own better in the future.
Other games mostly use design to try and teach you by playing(at least the basics), but aside from the latest Guilty Gear, I havent even seen a good tutorial in a fighting game yet. This is a challenge for both fighting game developers and the "community", albeit in different ways.
I really like them, but I cant stick with any of them for long unless I have friends to play with. Playing online usually leads to me hitting some kind of wall in growth, and Im never sure what it is Im not doing right, and would rather just spend time in other ways.
Also, theres just a lot of memorization (combos, frame data, where the actual hotboxes are on attacks, matchup knowledge, what to do in specific scenarios like wakeup or being up against a wall etc), which for many isn't a fun way to learn anything.
Getting rid of bad habits. I don't know why I do so much stupid shit on reaction instead of what I'm supposed to do. My muscle memory just sticks to unsafe answers and bad combo finishers, even though I spend a good chunk in training trying to overcome certain situations, when they come up I always default to my bullshit
