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The kernel driver for Call of Duty's new Anti-cheat called RICOCHET has been leaked. P2C devs are already reverse engineering it
- Thread starter AshenOne
- Start date
- Activision/Blizzard
Honest question, cuz I really don't know: When software is installed for one purpose, but adversely affects the operation of many other actions on a computer...has that ever been found to be legally actionable?
Like... I would consider Norton Antivirus to basically be malware because its operations negatively affect the user's experience in many ways beyond protecting them from viruses, while also not properly protecting the user from viruses. But as far as I know, that isn't legally actionable. Similarly, kernel-level access anti-cheat probably negatively affects a user by opening them up to possible attack vectors...but it also isn't (or hasn't been) legally actionable. Hell, they could probably make a kernel level anticheat that operates 100% of the time on the user's computer and that wouldn't (or hasn't been) legally actionable.
So something that spin-locks all cores every minute for 1 second (once cheat software has been actively found) could probably be labelled as "reticulating splines" code that operates while the game isn't running to optimize the user's experience while playing and it'd all be under the TOS of downloading and using the CoD software.
The fact that we even have people calling for Crossplay to be removed from consoles due to PC being a supposed landmine is hilarious when those Cronus MAX controller emulation devices are much more common and accomplish largely the same goal on Consoles (Console Aim Assist with Mouse Accuracy).
What activision should do is be a lot more egregious with their bans and do flat out hardware bans on PC. IP banning or even Account banning cheaters won't accomplish much as both of those are easy as hell to spoof / bypass. If you started banning people and linking their hardware ID just like how MS does it for licensing you make it much more difficult for cheaters to play on new accounts.
What activision should do is be a lot more egregious with their bans and do flat out hardware bans on PC. IP banning or even Account banning cheaters won't accomplish much as both of those are easy as hell to spoof / bypass. If you started banning people and linking their hardware ID just like how MS does it for licensing you make it much more difficult for cheaters to play on new accounts.
Probably not, but what was described was software that intentionally causes ill effect. Like that was the whole intent and purpose. That would be totally unambiguously malware. If you think Norton sucks and does things that effect your experience, I mean that's fine but that was not what the developers were trying to do just for kicks. Its certainly okay to make software that just happens to suck.
If you are just saying they could cover it up and make it seem like it was all an accident... I mean yeah they could try but if they are sued and go into discovery and its found they are intentionally running hidden code with no purpose besides to mess up people's machines, then they are probably liable.
I really really don't see this scenario as a good thing. I would much rather have cheaters in my games than companies arbitrating whether or not I am bad so they can try to DoS my machine.
I mean there's clearly one group that's at fault here, but ok. You all want you crossplay options, console players should get no-PC crossplay options too.
Hackers do love a challenge, look what happened to the PS3
Though I do think it's weird this just happened to leak now before launch, like others have mentioned it seems well timed to gather feedback and watch people prod at it
I guess, to me, there's a real fine line between "Writing sloppy code and/or knowingly overly-rigorous detection software" that slows down a computer and "writing malware". I'm pretty sure the people at Norton know just how effective their code is at stopping actual attacks. They also know just how bad their constant, hole-ridden vigilance slows down a computer, yet they do it anyway because the security theatre of checking a database of 30 year old viruses against every bit that comes or goes out of computer gives the impression to the user it's doing something, even if it isn't. Or isn't as effective as the tradeoff would demonstrate.
Not that i have a particular bone to pick with Norton, I'm just using them as an example. One could do the same thing with literal Windows itself.
This shouldn't be a option, this should be standard.
Opt in is the way to go on cross platform, it ever was, but people felt for the Epic and MS PR machines and here we are lol
You gotta keep dropping those "40 bombs" to convince people to tune into your Twitch stream.
The money to be made from cheats / hacks for warzone is astronomical, and making such hacks is probably quite trivial for the devs that actually work on the game. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that some of the game developers are secretly making hacks for their own games as a side gig for extra money. It's crazy but plausible.
Yep. With so many console cheaters out there I think it's best to give every platform options to turn cross play off. Glad you agree.
So Activision any day now - let everyone turn it off. Maybe even have a console cross play option only so those console cheaters can just play with themselves.
Why would anyone do that? Risk their career just for 3 weeks early for potential cheats?
It's funny, Black Ops 2 Plutonium is a community driven mod that adds server browser AND requires you to create a free account to play on them and bans cheaters when caught
The cheat industry for these ultra popular online games is literally millions of dollars big. Somebody sliding you a cool mil or two? People have definitely risked their careers for less.
It's apparently pretty lucrative.
Also, my original reply was quoted by "Nintendo" and "Zelda". XD
Oh yeah, I know that but if someone really paid millions for 3 weeks early access to the driver, it wouldn't be available publicly to other hackers for free.
One platform has an advantage, aimbot, wallhacks etc. where other's do not.
They absofuckinglutely should get preferential treatment. There could be console cross play and everything crossplay.
Like people haven't been popping aimbots onto thumb drives for console play since like xbox 360 days lmao
I can even get a device that lets me activate aim assist on console with a fucking mouse, but no, the platforms are completely void of cheating
I can even get a device that lets me activate aim assist on console with a fucking mouse, but no, the platforms are completely void of cheating
I gotta wonder if the people here blaming PC also know that cheat devices are even sold at Walmart now for consoles?
User Banned (3 Weeks): Platform warring over multiple posts, received long for similar behavior previously
Nah, no one gets to decide that except hardware owners and manufacturers, who actually invest money into the products that they own, make the decision on who they SHOULD play with and against using that hardware.
Console owners (who have spent money and bought consoles as their primary choice of getting third party games for an entire generation, and not just as just an exclusive device which they like or a multiplayer game device for people who don't have players on their preferred platform, eg: CoD's, FIFA's, Fighting Games and numerous other games in various genre) ARE the ONLY people who SHOULD speak on which other platforms their consoles SHOULD crossplay with, and it's a resounding YES from the entire console-only community for CONSOLE-ONLY-CROSSPLAY.
This cheating issue seems to be incredibly high in certain games on PC, and Warzone is one of them, it's not even that much of a problem if the dev is active enough and their anti-cheat is strong, despite this leak and the code being reverse engineered. Same situation with Battlefield with the recent leak. Both these publishers will be fine, just like Valve are with CSGO.
The people on console who use cheats as a way of arguing to avoid PC crossplay are miniscule, even if there might be some on this thread. The vast majority just wants to crossplay only between their own platform, consoles, irrespective of their makers, and it's their (as well as the console manufacturer's prerogative and their right to avoid any other platform as well) absolute right. It's really funny to tell them that they "SHOULDN'T" crossplay between their own consoles if PC doesn't get it.
SONY and NTDO currently have a first party rule that every dev should offer the consumer an option to turn crossplay off.
Going forward, SONY, MSFT and NTDO should (and most probably WILL very soon due to the community feedback that they're getting) go ahead and make a first party rule that PC should be avoided in ALL games that have ANY form of multiplayer, and most importantly (last, current and future gen console hardware), should crossplay between all the console variants wherever possible.
This egregious practice of 3RD party devs exploiting the console playerbase due it's size and sales, and the player injection to PC via "default on full crossplay" and no option to play only with other consoles only via crossplay, is going to be over very soon. Console-only-crossplay is the inevitable future, and there are titles which have started this already.
This is being very obtuse. The 360 and PS3 were hacked on a system level. To this day, the Xbox One and PS4 haven't been cracked (on the newest firmware).
Mouse emulation devices are cheating, but they are clearly not on the same level as aimbots/wall hacks.
You don't own or make the game, so you have no place no matter what you wish to say.
If ya'll feel like that speak with your wallets and see what actually happens, pc players thought abandoning COD would fix shit it didn't.
Riot is persistent in dealing with their community.
most of pc fps gaming which I enjoy has been a joke since they made vac. Every fps dev knew what joolz thought at the turn of the century and they have spent more time dancing arounding marketing and tech gimmicks than smart moderation.
This is just entirely false. More and more games are embracing PC crossplay, it's accelerating year on year.
Lol, ahh, no.
What should happen is the end user (you in this case) have the option to play with crossplay on consoles only and also have a checkmark that allows crossplay with PC as well. Why remove crossplay entirely from PC for everyone if they still choose to? That does not sound very diplomatic at all.
I may not, but EVERY CONSOLE PLAYER who's main device of gaming is their console (not PC and just buying a console for exclusive games and the MP population of consoles), and have money invested in hardware THEY OWN (NOT YOU), actually do. So, you have absolutely no leg to stand on their right as a consumer.
That's PC's problem about fixing, not the console player's or the manufacturer's. They don't care if the PC side of things is a cheatfest. They have NO reason to.
Ah, the classic "vote with your wallet" strawman capitalist argument. It doesn't work here, when the easiest solution to this cheating mess is to avoid PC, console-only-crossplay and consoles would only have the tiniest minority of the USB hardware exploiters to face. I've even mentioned in my previous post that PC cheating isn't that much of a problem, and the truth is console players don't even mention that as the cause to kick PC out of the crossplay pool.
So, this "speaking with the wallet" rhetoric is irrelevant to console players, when they can mandate the console manufacturers to avoid PC, and unite ONLY all consoles.
Their MONEY. Their HARDWARE. Their PLAYGROUND. Their RULES. YOU can't do ANYTHING about it, if the console players demand and the makers make a FIRST PARTY RULE to AVOID PC and ONLY CROSSPLAY CONSOLES sometime in the near future.
That's exactly why PC should be removed, because ALL console-ONLY players want them to be removed, which is why the console makers will listen to their loyal consumers who invest in their hardware generation after generation and they are the entire majority who speak for themselves that they don't want PC in the mix, than the tiny handful combination of PC players AND multiplatform players who have PC as their main platform as well as play on console for exclusive software, plus multiplayer games because the console base being large, which the 3RD party devs exploit the majority of the console players with player injection from console to PC to keep their PC games alive.
No need for ANY diplomacy here, since the situation is very simple. Console doesn't need PC crossplay at all even if CoD and Warzone weren't Crossplay to any device to begin with. PC NEEDS Console to even survive a single game which is the reason why playlists like Ground War in the main game were MANDATORY CROSSPLAY, or else you can't even play with your own console's playerbase, so that the devs can monetize those tiny pc playerbase).
No need for ANY diplomacy where money is involved from Console consumers who have worked hard to earn it and THEY WHO INVEST THAT MONEY, want the product's manufacturer to give them what THEY wish.
Those tools you are talking about are making millions of dollars selling stuff like this to players.
I mean this is about money. I imagine these cheats make incredible sums of money for the developers who sell them.
Doesn't matter what your main platform to use a game is the publisher ultimately makes the rules. Your investment in how you play is no different than mine.
I'm not a pc only player either.
The very maker you say is free to do shit is the one that literally runs the largest gaming OS used by gamers and has done nothing be it api or OS to help devs out.
I already know they don't care I've said how long they didn't care and why, you're not adding anything new. I don't need a strawmen I have greedy publishers who won't fix this cause they prefer profits. Your crowd will now be entering the 3rd gen of making these complaints meanwhile fps games have more cross play in them than at any major point since the dreamcast started us down this road.
How you spend your money means nothing, think every nvidia consumer with rtx hardwarde is happy DLSS isn't as prolific as it should or could be?
You keep thinking I want anything done I'm happy with the status quo going forward. it's not your or any consumer playground it's a publisher's period.
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Lol, yeah ok. If PC is so miniscule then why do they have PC versions? PC gamers also invest money and not all of them are cheaters.
I guess you having your own control that allows you to ignore PC crossplay isn't enough, you want to speak on behalf of everyone. Glad you're not in charge.
Twitch is the reason. Despite PC having a fraction of the CoD console install base, a lot of the biggest Warzone streamers are on PC, and a large part of their success is argued to come from stomping on console players.
OK but again, if the actual player base is so small then why not simply have the option to not have crossplay with PC players and allow other console players if they wish to still have access. If it's that small then you won't be missing anything will you? Just seems so bizarre to say don't allow anyone, amazing how people care that much if other consoles players want to play with PC players. "nope, can't allow that". That type of attitude should be erased from the internet.
Nope. The console manufacturers do, and the publishers oblige. That's precisely the reason WHY it needs to become a first party rule to avoid PC. NOTHING can be done by the publisher/developer afterwards. When there is enough noise like the Fortnite Crossplay/Cross-save backlash, that (co-incidentally or not) impacted thier stock price, they will notice.
IRRELEVANT.
A CONSOLE-ONLY player has the final say on what other devices their the hardware crossplays with, period.
IRRELEVANT to console players (in this context, Xbox One and Xbox Series), wanting to play ONLY with PlayStation and Nintendo console players.
It is the console consumer's basic right to decide to play with who they want to play with, and if they (the Console players who INVESTED IN THE CONSOLE HARDWARE AND WILL STICK WITH IT FOR 3RD PARTY TITLES FOR AN ENTIRE GENERATION) want to avoid PC players (the people who did NOT INVEST IN XBOX CONSOLE HARDWARE OR 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE ON THE XBOX CONSOLES), they will get CONSOLE-ONLY CROSSPLAY and it's their choice as a consumer.
Nice way to downplay and once again, strawman as if the console players are thinking of banning crossplay altogether.
For the 11 millionth time, NO.
They embrace it, and have been waiting for generations to happen because, prior to last and current-gen, either of the console maker who was dominant at that time of the market, wouldn't budge, and make excuses using PR. Now their dream is slowly becoming real. They just want it between consoles. Crossplay is a beautiful feature.
Oh, and DC had a colossal number of 4 games to crossplay with PC players. QIIIA and PSO had such backlash from the community before they shutdown servers, so there's your "future".
- NVDA don't sell locked console hardware that sells in excess of (cumulatively) 250 MILLION UNITS every generation. SONY/MSFT/NTDO, do.
- NVDA don't have a storefront for each of those 250 MILLION+ 'potential' consumers to invest in 1ST Party (full revenue) and well as 3RD Party (30% revenue for EACH title and microtransactions/in-app purchases that follow, in this context, CoD and Warzone) software, whom they can monetize in various ways like subscriptions (GFN isn't tied to RTX Turing or Ampere hardware), and don't have to care about their consumers leaving their storefront/ecosystem or not investing in it anymore. SONY/MSFT/NTDO, do.
- NVDA have different avenues in which they can (and they currently are) take their business forward. AI and Enterprise Computing is the core of their business today, unlike the 90's, and it's their future. The GPU business is, day by day, getting smaller, and they won't even care in the near future. It's one of the reasons they purchased Mellanox Technologies sometime ago, and their interest in acquiring ARM Holdings (irrespective of whether it goes through or EU blocks it). SONY and NTDO, don't. Gaming is the core of both these companies' and their business strategies revolve around it. They earn in billions each year in just their storefronts through their royalties. Same stuff for MSFT (minus Gaming only being their business). They all 3, don't want to piss off their 250 MILLION+ consumer base, who gets them BILLIONS in revenue (and operating profits), YoY, all just for PC players who DON'T INVEST IN THEIR CONSOLE HARDWARE, and DON'T INVEST IN THE STOREFRONT TO BUY 3RD PARTY TITLES like in this context, CoD and Warzone, to get them royalties the console players do, which makes the console player's opinion INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT and PC not even worth talking for these companies.
So, YES. How console consumers spend their money, means EVERYTHING to the console manufacturers, to engage their interest in games on console storefronts to gain revenue from 3RD party games like CoD and Warzone, not PC players who are IRRELEVANT to them.
Oh, and your comparison on DLSS, to that of opening up the console playerbase for PC to crossplay with for them to enjoy active MP lobbies, doesn't even make sense and the biggest of your strawmen arguments, so far. Not having DLSS or RT presets in a game, for PC user with RTX hardware, doesn't break their gaming experience, like PC Crossplay does for Console consumers. It's the reason they want PC kicked out, and move forward with CONSOLE-ONLY-CROSSPLAY.
Console playerbase isn't a stock of guinea pigs that the PC platform can use to save it's dying games, and for 3RD party developers to exploit them with PC player injection into console lobbies.
Of course, you're happy on PC, playing against Console players. It isn't about you or your say in the matter, because it's of NO CONCERN to Console makers. It's about the VAST MAJORITY of CONSOLE-ONLY players, to whom they will listen to, and to whom (the CONSOLE-ONLY players and the manufacturers) the playground BELONGS TO.
What and where do your think P2P multiplayer (the majority of online gaming) runs, hmm? The console network live service backend belongs to the CONSOLE MANUFACTURER, where the players are connected to the in-game matchmaking. Even in the unlikely event of a game having it's game logic running on an actual dedicated server (instead of listen servers), where the publisher hires servers around the world and pay for them, the final say is with the CONSOLE MANUFACTURER.
If the CONSOLE MANUFACTURER is getting backlash from it's community, they will waste no time and KICK the publisher's game out of their storefront and stop the publisher from selling their game copies even, let alone monetization. Cyberpunk, though being an SP game, is a recent example. Have community backlas and don't oblige by what the CONSOLE MANUFACTURER says, get KICKED out of their store. Just like Cyberpunk and Fortnite were. So, YES. the playground, the money, the rules, and finally choice definitely belong to the console-only players and console manufacturers, whether you like it or not. Console-only crossplay is the inevitable future.
The topic is about CoD/Warzone, which is a 3RD party game and it's revenue is generated on consoles via their respective storefronts, not via the Battle.net app on PC. PC players in 3RD party multiplayer games don't invest money into CONSOLE MANUFACTURERS' PROPRIETARY LOCKED storefronts. It's precisely why a PC player's opinion on the matter of crossplay on consoles, is of absolutely ZERO IMPORTANCE to CONSOLE MANUFACTURERS and CONSOLE-ONLY consumers.
Show me where I said "all of PC players are cheaters". I haven't in this thread, or ever, not only on this message board, but anywhere you find me online. Reading a post before replying to it, is always recommended.
This is what I wrote previously about the cheating issue on PC, in this thread:
That's all I've said. Imagining things to suit your argument and posting in bad faith, doesn't help. Only makes you look bad.
Console-only players "having their own control that allows them to ignore OC crossplay" has ALWAYS been the problem, because it doesn't exist (CoD Ground War playlist, Fortnite, Gears 5 all have forced crossplay because PC can't find games otherwise, except Fortnite, all these games which takes literally seconds on console to find a game, even YEARS after their respective launches) or exists as a PR reply to console players, because crossplay in games PC in, are FORCED ON BY DEFAULT by the developer, so that PC can get players to play with, and they absolutely know that Console players won't, out of their way, and turn on PC crossplay. So, YES, a PR tool named "option" isn't enough. Just KICK PC out. It isn't the Console player's responsibility to keep the PC playerbase alive and carry them. Period.
I'm not speaking for everyone at all, for example, I'm not speaking for the PC players who bought consoles for exclusive games, are playing games with PC crossplay on PC, and games without PC crossplay on consoles because of console's population, and want PC to be included in EVERY game so they can avoid console multiplayer altogether.
The console players will speak for themselves, of course, and that is the future - CONSOLE-ONLY CROSSPLAY, which is the absolute majority, for which they would be even more glad than you.
Thank you.
Duh. Anybody that thought this anti-cheat would last a significant amount of time is woefully unaware of the state of Warzone. It exists to be hacked at this point. The fact that this information leaked isn't even remotely surprising.
Your tone and tenor are both remarkably hostile and sanctimonious. Your positioning yourself as the speaker for all "console only" players is quite remarkable.
Well they have a history of it:
I don't want forced/default PC crossplay in my games devs. Please stop it.
Is crossplay presented to users or is it within settings? It would have been better to have a control group that needed to turn it on to compare those numbers. This is similar to people becoming organ donors, when the default is yes many people won't choose to change it.
www.resetera.com
I was sure Ive seen that avatar go on a tirade about PC crossplay before and lo and behold. "ResetEra is a PC gaming Elitist forum" lmao.
All is suddenly very clear. Prob gonna have to add him to my ignore list and I've only ever had to add 1 person to it. But everything about his abrasiveness and method of *arguing on the internet* is equal parts unenjoyable and unrelatable. And the pronouncements of console being "guinea pings" and PC games struggling to stay alive is so cringe.Well they have a history of it:
I don't want forced/default PC crossplay in my games devs. Please stop it.
Is crossplay presented to users or is it within settings? It would have been better to have a control group that needed to turn it on to compare those numbers. This is similar to people becoming organ donors, when the default is yes many people won't choose to change it.
I was sure Ive seen that avatar go on a tirade about PC crossplay before and lo and behold. "ResetEra is a PC gaming Elitist forum" lmao.
Well they have a history of it:
I don't want forced/default PC crossplay in my games devs. Please stop it.
Is crossplay presented to users or is it within settings? It would have been better to have a control group that needed to turn it on to compare those numbers. This is similar to people becoming organ donors, when the default is yes many people won't choose to change it.
I was sure Ive seen that avatar go on a tirade about PC crossplay before and lo and behold. "ResetEra is a PC gaming Elitist forum" lmao.
Fuck me. There are no words.