The last of us II Gameplay. Let's talk about how good it was.
- Thread starter Emwitus
- Start date
it's kinda funny how many dislikes his video about the first game has (it had way more at the height of last of us' popularity) and how he likes the second game a lot and even poked fun at the outrage towards it
After the first game I learned to play stealth initially but if things go south adapt and be more aggressive. In some cases escaping line of sight and resetting the stealth.
That to me is when the combat really shined.
The game literally boils down to: We need to go to point A. Oh no! Point A is blocked. Find detour. Kill dudes. Arrive at point A. Rinse and repeat.
I will say the fidelity of doing all of those things is fantastic, but the gameplay itself as well as the narrative structure is incredibly rote.
Great characters. Great dialogue. Shit structure.
I will say the fidelity of doing all of those things is fantastic, but the gameplay itself as well as the narrative structure is incredibly rote.
Great characters. Great dialogue. Shit structure.
One of the bast gameplay loop ever made. Melee combat was outstanding, stealth and eneymy AI were just best in class, shooting was so satisfying and don't get me even started on the amazing level design... Such a masterpiece, one of my favourite game ever made
People always talk about the story and how controversial it was, but the real gem in this game is its gameplay.
People always talk about the story and how controversial it was, but the real gem in this game is its gameplay.
Like he said in the video, more than half of the shitty comments and outrage is from people that have likely never touched this game.
Playing on Grounded made me appreciate much more how fluid the gameplay is. Since melee weapons break faster on Grounded, it was crazy seeing Ellie do a seamless animation where after her 2x4 broke, she picked up the hammer next to her on a nightstand and swung it.
One cool thing people don't talk about enough is how they delineated between playing Ellie vs Abby.
There are a ton of small differences, and they only build as you level them up. Abby is this complete powerhouse of a character, where I feel the point of her is that you can do anything you want within your immediate area. Whereas with Ellie, you are incentivized to be more tactically. It's genuinely difficult to say which character is more 'powerful' as the powerful weapons are all spread out - Ellie's sniper is more powerful than Abby's assualt rifle but Abby's sniper pistol is more powerful than Ellie's revolver, Ellie has exploding arrows while Abby has incendiary shotgun shells, etc and they don't have better abiltiies, just different ones - Abby can craft more ammo, while Ellie has more gadgets at her disposal.
It's a wierd thing where it makes them feel distinct even as they overlap each other in every major area. Each character can do mostly everything the other does, but they do them differently.
There are a ton of small differences, and they only build as you level them up. Abby is this complete powerhouse of a character, where I feel the point of her is that you can do anything you want within your immediate area. Whereas with Ellie, you are incentivized to be more tactically. It's genuinely difficult to say which character is more 'powerful' as the powerful weapons are all spread out - Ellie's sniper is more powerful than Abby's assualt rifle but Abby's sniper pistol is more powerful than Ellie's revolver, Ellie has exploding arrows while Abby has incendiary shotgun shells, etc and they don't have better abiltiies, just different ones - Abby can craft more ammo, while Ellie has more gadgets at her disposal.
It's a wierd thing where it makes them feel distinct even as they overlap each other in every major area. Each character can do mostly everything the other does, but they do them differently.
I'm not far from finishing my 4th or 5th play through of the game. I think it's #5. The gameplay is fantastic. I just wish it were a bit more responsive in some areas. Picking up items can take longer than I'd like and switching items (particularly thebottle) takes far too much time and is a little bit clunky. It's a tough balance between realistic animations and responsiveness.
I think both are really close. MGSV have more options because of the military setting but TLoUPII is ahead in other areas. But to me these two are clearly at the top when it comes to TPS.
The upgrade tree problem is the only thing I agree with here.
There's always bespoke activities in Naughty Dog games that don't carry forward, but Part II is the game where they rely on them the least. Its gameplay / level design is by far and large stronger than it's ever been, and as strong as any other aspect of the game, whereas previously you might see them leaning more towards narrative than player agency.
Character animation and fluidity of movement has made every other third-person game feel dated. Motion matching in the way they implemented it is the definite future of gameplay systems, completely ahead of the curve. The gameplay is designed to be scrappy to match the tone of the world, yet it still manages to feel responsive.
AI is vastly improved over the previous game, and any other game out there for that matter. It allows for a lot more dynamic and emergent gameplay encounters, and even more so when you pair with other new features like dogs, dodging, breaking glass etc.
Looking at it from the top down, there isn't a system that wasn't overhauled for the sequel and they definitely added multiple new gameplay features which you're quick to dismiss as not important enough. But I keep hearing "not ambitious" from you as if that is a reflection of the final product, like there isn't a chasm compared to the first game and this. Did you not like the new rope mechanics and the part they played in traversal and puzzle solving? There's also some inaccurate claims of yours about limb dismemberment. Nobody is asking for a revolution in gameplay but this absolutely shits from a high mark on the first game's gameplay, and being what could be argued as the best feeling third-person game out there game and general impressions ITT, shows that the work they put in made its mark.
Videos like the OP and some gifs of the game I've seen are astounding. I didn't catch all the gameplay opportunities you can pull off the first time i played it, and yet i still had a blast. Combat and encounters always felt fresh and tense, and there was a flow to the gameplay which felt so damn satisfying. All the little details and nuances in the graphics, animation, sound, etc really add up to make something so immersive and incredible. I went back after i beat the game and replayed specific encounters just because it was so engaging and captured my imagination.
Alot of discussion around the game is about the story but the gameplay is truly special as well. One of the best. Which is why I imagine it's received record breaking number of GoTY awards.
It is honestly a bit jarring going to another game immediately after finishing Part 2. That's how incredible the game is.
Alot of discussion around the game is about the story but the gameplay is truly special as well. One of the best. Which is why I imagine it's received record breaking number of GoTY awards.
It is honestly a bit jarring going to another game immediately after finishing Part 2. That's how incredible the game is.
I'm glad to see I'm not alone. Everything has this weight to it that I really love. Shootouts feel tense as fuck
Lol, getting from point A to B whilst killing lots of things is almost every action game ever made.
It's things like polish and/or diversity of mechanics, controls, animations, hit reactions, weapon feel and feedback, visuals, audio design, level and arena design, enemy AI competency, mobility etc that differentiate things, and those are all areas TLOU2 massively excels.
Last edited:
This is an incredibly rote simplification of game design.
The crafting system is one of the games most important systems in that it ties to both exploration, character progression, and combat but ultimately hurts the movie like nature of the game by completely fucking up the pace, especially on the harder difficulties where what little you make may be the difference between you reloading the next combat arena a dozen times or not.
How many drawers and cabinets can one open only for 75% of them to be empty before the videogamyness of it all takes you out of it. If it was a survival game, it would be different, but this is a narrative driven game. You are playing to get to the next cutscene or spectacular setpeice, not to kill another clicker.
I have 2 friends who played on hard their first playthrough because that's what so many people recommended, only to have their playtime balloon on what is already too long of a game, reloading checkpoints over and over to struggle through sections with fuck all for ammo and supplies when stealth isn't an option. What a terrible way to experience this game imo.
How many drawers and cabinets can one open only for 75% of them to be empty before the videogamyness of it all takes you out of it. If it was a survival game, it would be different, but this is a narrative driven game. You are playing to get to the next cutscene or spectacular setpeice, not to kill another clicker.
I have 2 friends who played on hard their first playthrough because that's what so many people recommended, only to have their playtime balloon on what is already too long of a game, reloading checkpoints over and over to struggle through sections with fuck all for ammo and supplies when stealth isn't an option. What a terrible way to experience this game imo.
I didn't say Part 2's gameplay isn't better than the first; it is. But most of the improvements fall in line with what i expect from a game releasing 7 years after on a more powerful hardware. I wanted the formula and structure to be pushed way more than it did.
Adding prone in your video game is not an achievement of game design. Tall grass stealth is a trope every adjacent game does. The systems are very well implemented but conceptually they are straight-forwards additions you find in many titles, and they are used in a 'standard' way in Part 2.
As for limb dismemberment, i don't remember seeing it against humans. Can i get close to someone and blast his firearm-hand off with a shotgun?
I also believe stealth takedowns are too convenient and easy and therefore dissuade aggressive approaches. I would like to see a limited-use taser added (need to craft batteries) where you to zap a dude before being able to take him down.
Yes, Part 2 has better mechanics. That doesn't make it automatically more ambitious in a way i expect a marquee release long time in development to be.
I played Part 1 for the first time in Spring 2019. I had that game fresher in mind than the average player. I totally wanted and expected Part 2 to push the formula and the framework further. The final product contented itself with staying largely in the same framework and executing it markedly better.
In my book, and with the expectations this game had, that's not an ambitious undertaking, I can only imagine the disappointment of playing Part 1 in 2013 and waiting all this time to get gameplay structure that is 'more of the same' albeit executed better.
The Seattle Day 1 segment on the horse should have been the core advancement of Part 2 to the series' framework, and more of these segments should have been in the game. That would have been ambitious to me. To introduce this segment early on in the game but never repeat it is a waste and a misfire.
I got a boat in a partially flooded city. Common. It writes itself.
as for the other stuff:
- The rope mechanic was underused. Puzzles in general felt there were less frequent or involved than in Part 1. At the very least they didn't get a bigger portion of Part 2's gameplay pie.
- The Safe cracking portion of the game is a game-design own goal. Safes are the reward. The risk is losing health and resources exploring and searching for the combo. The devs ruined it by practically allowing you to easily cheat your way in.
- Upgrade tree behavior is a step back from Part 1. Devs chose against having a huge avenue for personalized play-styles.
- There's probably a way to quantify it, but i feel Part 1 had easily more variety in places, locations, weather and such.
You don't remember if people can lose limbs...in a game where people very easily lose limbs? Did you only go for stealth takedowns? Im pretty sure even when the Seraphites and WLF fight each other they still have this.
Im really baffled by how you can possibly think part 1 had "easily more locations and weather". Its twice as long of a game and every area was unique, with each day going from sunny to stormy by the third while the prologue is snowy into blizzard and the last area being beach side rural California. It felt like a single day in the sequel nearly had more variety to it than the entirety of the first game.
ie. Day 1: Outer Seattle and gate > Open area Downtown > The elementary school > getting to the TV Station > Escaping in the tunnels, then the theatre and flashback. Each area had more verticality and variety than the arenas in TLOU1. Then theres how much more freedom you have in tackling each encounter and how the AI is a whole lot less awkward and useless for both enemies and your allies. Going back to TLOU1 the fighting is incredibly basic in comparison and Ellie is constantly running in front of enemies without being noticed.
I already listed some of the wide variety of set pieces and new mechanics earlier but got ignored for whatever reason. Basically the most unique gameplay mixup in Part 1 was Joel being upside down, while the combat was repetitive and puzzles were almost always push dumpster or place plank/ladder and theres reaaaally not much else the game has going for it compared to part 2 outside the still impressive presentation and story.
The smaller but still significant changes to how the game plays are numerous. The way clickers will slide over barriers, shooting from the ground after being knocked down, stealing someone's melee weapon, enemies checking corners and looking around instead of moving on routes like androids, all the changes to how AI communicate and react. Im sure there are a bunch of videos pointing out all the details.
Last edited:
One of the best things about TLoU and it's sequel is that failing stealth doesn't feel like a fail state, it segue's beautifully into frantic, improvisational combat scenarios.
(Should be time stamped), not a shotgun but they blow off an undamaged human enemies arm with a rifle up close.
I mean, that's pretty much what I said. The fidelity of these things is fantastic. I encourage you to replay the game and ask yourself how many times the path forward is physically blocked again and again. It's just a rote structure is all I'm saying.
yes you can blow off people's arms off with firearms in tlou2. I've done it multiple times across four playthroughs. also, I don't understand how you wanted more innovative, genre pushing mechanics but then praise the wide-linear segment in Ellie's first day in Seattle.
ND has been doing that type of segment since UC4 & TLL. And even before that games like Metro Last Light had similar levels.
Combat is EXTREME quality. I think they finally nailed it and surpassed Gears in gunplay. Not to mention hand to hand combat, ND is miles ahead. Most encounters were incredible tense and fun to play. Very rewarding.
But exploration is the biggest downside, feels totally dragging and repetitive IMHO.
Especially on higher difficulties, scavenging big empty areas with very very low resources, you can go like 20 minutes looking for nothing but empty cars (I dont know if there was a point for being able to break car's glass if there wasn't anything on them besides some cards for collecting).
It just felt like a chore and broke the narrative and whole gameplay structure. Around half of the game I said, fuck it and rushed my way to the end because I was sick of the exploration.
Because of that, I think the first game is better, even with its rough parts it never felt dragging, and I played that one in the highest difficulty going full completionist.
Having more contained areas and shorter exploration zones would've been better.
But exploration is the biggest downside, feels totally dragging and repetitive IMHO.
Especially on higher difficulties, scavenging big empty areas with very very low resources, you can go like 20 minutes looking for nothing but empty cars (I dont know if there was a point for being able to break car's glass if there wasn't anything on them besides some cards for collecting).
It just felt like a chore and broke the narrative and whole gameplay structure. Around half of the game I said, fuck it and rushed my way to the end because I was sick of the exploration.
Because of that, I think the first game is better, even with its rough parts it never felt dragging, and I played that one in the highest difficulty going full completionist.
Having more contained areas and shorter exploration zones would've been better.
One one hand ans I can't wait to play it, on the other hand I just had a PS5 and I'm waiting for an obvious incoming update.
Yeah the gameplay is incredible and the best part of the game, just like the original. I can't wait to see the multiplayer and/or whatever they do to update the game for the PS5. Have been tempted to return to the game, but am waiting until both of those things happen before I do.
Probably the most intense, visceral human versus human third person shooter since Max Payne 3.
Probably the most intense, visceral human versus human third person shooter since Max Payne 3.
Sometimes I would sit for a minute and think about a current-day rendition of Manhunt, or if that would even be possible to release today.
Then I played The Last of Us Part II and had my answer: you absolutely could lol
Then I played The Last of Us Part II and had my answer: you absolutely could lol
Sorry for the off topic, but just finished the game and I need to vent some thoughts out. Regarding character designs... I'm talk about Abby...
Doesn't her more scrawny looking and short messy haircut at the end of the game make her look more badass and menacing? I wish they used that design for most of the "present time" gameplay.
The buff chick design just felt too cartoony IMHO.
Doesn't her more scrawny looking and short messy haircut at the end of the game make her look more badass and menacing? I wish they used that design for most of the "present time" gameplay.
The buff chick design just felt too cartoony IMHO.
I know all the spoilers for the game, would I still enjoy this? I knew the ending of The Last of Us before I played it and still had an okay time but obviously would have enjoyed it more if someone hadn't spoilt it for me and I'm wondering if the sequel stands strong on gameplay alone?
Play it on normal or easy difficulty. You'll enjoy the best aggressive and refined third person shooter gameplay ever.
If you go for higher difficulties, you're into a very dragging experience.
Story wise the game goes hard jumping from flashbacks to present time to recent event's flashbacks to flashbacks and so on. Kinda annoying and it feels like it goes in circles sometimes.
You're probably enjoy it more if you rush your way to the end just to play the combat segments and admire the graphics.