Oct 26, 2017
4,606
Sweden
The 2018 TLoU2 demo was definitely played by someone, it wasn't a scripted scene.
It was "played", but it was entirely scripted too. There is a 0% chance you could have went anywhere else in the demo and gotten working AI. Cause the AI was not working at this point in time. It would have been horribly glitchy and pretty much a mess if they used the actual systems that were in place at that time, way before pre-alpha. This is how most E3 demos work, which we discussed here already at length and have several examples. ND isn't a stranger to this as the gameplay demo for the first game worked the same way. It was extremely scripted and they didn't come close for the final game. In Part 2, it was also scripted, but they came significantly closer to their vision, so it's much more forgivable.

The techniques used to script such a demo we already discussed, but here they are:

-You can move around freely, but the people playing the demo have memorized the correct paths to take for this scripted demo
-Alongside the way there are triggers which initiate scripted events, such as the car dodge fight, which are pre-created animations without user input
-Enemies are invincible until the point they need to die for the demo
-The player is invincible and the health bar is scripted

You can believe everything in this demo was real actual gameplay 2 years before release and looked even better than what we got after 2 years of refinement. Or you can believe in reality of how these demos are made.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
I respect NXGamer, but this doesn't make any sense when the same person said that ND used the cinematic models of the characters in the demo, which the retail game doesn't use during gameplay. What's the excuse for that? Is it now a artistic choice to use lower quality models during gameplay? xD

Guess it comes to down to how you weigh that in the grand scheme of things. There have been a few things upgraded, a few things downgraded. But the entire thing isn't in any considerable way different from what was advertised.
 

Deleted member 2595

Account closed at user request
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Oct 25, 2017
5,475
Oh wow, I didn't realize there was that much of a difference between the 2018 demo and what was released. It's a fairly significant downgrade, especially when it comes to the lighting, animations, and character models (heads). The final game still looks amazing, but there's really no way the 2018 demo was running on a PS4 Pro, especially not at frame rates that look much higher than 30. The 2018 demo is probably what the PS5 version will look like, which will be awesome.

Also, this is just another example of why I'm suspicious of any developer's claim that a game is running in engine or that they're actually showing gameplay before the game is released.
It can definitely be running in engine though. They just would have no idea how much would have to change or be simplified before launch. The goalposts are always moving in game development, right up to launch.
 

wafflebrain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,815
So was that motion matching tech they discussed after the 2018 trailer released utilized in the final version?
 

etta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,512
I'll wait to play this on PC I guess...
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Cloud-Strife

Alt-Account
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Sep 27, 2019
3,140
After seeing the AC Valhalla leaked gameplay TLOU 2 looks even more impressive. I can't believe how they managed to do it with a console so weak and old like the base Ps4. (1,84 Teraflops)
 

Cloud-Strife

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Banned
Sep 27, 2019
3,140
The final game shows what motion matching actually looks like while a lot of the interactions in the demo were most likely conceptual.

The only animation that is not in the final game in my experience is the one when you get pushed into a car and you counter attack right after.

Everything else I've seen it at least once or twice on my first playthrough.. the boss tossed me over a counter (not on the start of the fight it was after in the middle of the combat ).. you can run and grab stuff and throw it after.. you can hide under trucks and get pulled out.. you can dodge pretty much 90% the same way that you saw it in the demo but of course since the demo was staged everything looks 100% smooth but that's expected.. enemies will beg not to kill them and call each other by name.. etc.
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
So Game devs should never show us alpha versions of games is what you guys are telling us.

To see thi as a negative is being very short sighted of how game development works.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
54,085
The only animation that is not in the final game in my experience is the one when you get pushed into a car and you counter attack right after.
Enemy hit reactions are nowhere near as specific in the main game. Think about say, when Ellie shoots the person in the face from under the car. Or When she gets pulled from the car, pushes the enemy off, and shoots him and how it has a specific reaction to very single bullet in an incredibly specific way. Or how you see the brute enemy react to each arrow while Ellie shoots him.
 

Cloud-Strife

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Sep 27, 2019
3,140
Enemy hit reactions are nowhere near as specific in the main game. Think about say, when Ellie shoots the person in the face from under the car. Or When she gets pulled from the car, pushes the enemy off, and shoots him and how it has a specific reaction to very single bullet in an incredibly specific way. Or how you see the brute enemy react to each arrow while Ellie shoots him.

Enemy hit reactions yeah.. they are not the exact same in the final build.. I was talking about Ellie animations mostly.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,767
So Game devs should never show us alpha versions of games is what you guys are telling us.

To see thi as a negative is being very short sighted of how game development works.
They didn't show us an alpha version of their game. They showed us a concept video/vertical slice of what they were aiming for the final game.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
So Game devs should never show us alpha versions of games is what you guys are telling us.

To see thi as a negative is being very short sighted of how game development works.

Game developers should not make misleading videos and claims about their game that are not true.

They didn't show us an alpha version of their game. They showed us a concept video/vertical slice of what they were aiming for the final game.

Except they said that the demo was actual gameplay running on a PS4, which was bullshit from the beginning.

I think everybody understands game development, that things change, that optimizations often mean reducing visual quality or changing things up. But that's not what happened here. They put out a demo in 2018 and claimed it was actual gameplay, and it's obvious that was complete bullshit now that the game is out. The problem is deception and they shouldn't get a free pass just because the game is actually good.
 

s y

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,483
Except they said that the demo was actual gameplay running on a PS4, which was bullshit from the beginning.
I don't think so. Not to defend ND's fuckery demos, but it's more than likely that the slice was running on PS4 hardware, but that's all it was, a super scripted, polished to hell and back slice. They probably knew they could not hit that quality level across an entire, actual game and paired back elements but I still think it was running on a PS4 and played by a person. I doubt they had any intention of hitting that level either. It's meant to trick wow audiences and build interest.

ND knows what they're doing with these demos though, as they've done it pretty consistently and I imagine they'l keep doing it, since it works.
 

Cloud-Strife

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Sep 27, 2019
3,140
Game developers should not make misleading videos and claims about their game that are not true.



Except they said that the demo was actual gameplay running on a PS4, which was bullshit from the beginning.

I think everybody understands game development, that things change, that optimizations often mean reducing visual quality or changing things up. But that's not what happened here. They put out a demo in 2018 and claimed it was actual gameplay, and it's obvious that was complete bullshit now that the game is out. The problem is deception and they shouldn't get a free pass just because the game is actually good.

I disagree.. they can have a vision of the game years before release and of course you can find console limitations that will make you change some of this stuff in the process.

You talk like the actual gameplay is 100% different from the demo and that's not true.

Read any review or video from a respected source like Digital Foundry and you will see that they agree on that at least 90% of the target was achieved.. for a game so ambitious that's insane.

No other game can come close to what you can do during gameplay on TLOU 2.. did you see the leaked footage from AC Valhalla? that looks like a joke compared to the gameplay on this.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
I don't think so. Not to defend ND's fuckery demos, but it's more than likely that the slice was running on PS4 hardware, but that's all it was, a super scripted, polished to hell and back slice. They probably knew they could not hit that quality level across an entire, actual game and paired back elements but I still think it was running on a PS4 and played by a person. I doubt they had any intention of hitting that level either. It's meant to trick wow audiences and build interest.

ND knows what they're doing with these demos though, as they've done it pretty consistently and I imagine they'l keep doing it, since it works.
I disagree.. they can have a vision of the game years before release and of course you can find console limitations that will make you change some of this stuff in the process.

You talk like the actual gameplay is 100% different from the demo and that's not true.

Read any review or video from a respected source like Digital Foundry and you will see that they agree on that at least 90% of the target was achieved.. for a game so ambitious that's insane.

No other game can come close to what you can do during gameplay on TLOU 2.. did you see the leaked footage from AC Valhalla? that looks like a joke compared to the gameplay on this.

I don't want to keep arguing the same points, so I'll just say you should check my other posts in this thread for my rebuttal (if you care to).