The Last of Us part 2 - E3 2018 demo vs final build

[ken_matthews]

Oh wow, I didn't realize there was that much of a difference between the 2018 demo and what was released. It's a fairly significant downgrade, especially when it comes to the lighting, animations, and character models (heads). The final game still looks amazing, but there's really no way the 2018 demo was running on a PS4 Pro, especially not at frame rates that look much higher than 30. The 2018 demo is probably what the PS5 version will look like, which will be awesome.

Also, this is just another example of why I'm suspicious of any developer's claim that a game is running in engine or that they're actually showing gameplay before the game is released.

 

[Equanimity]

It showed some truly unique interactions at the time. Remember that real time physics and shaders were still new back then. But also on the AI front, things like: if the AI couldn't enter a building, blocked by physics, they would shoot through the windows. And off course the facial animations, that actually made it into retail as promised. You can even hear the "oohs" and "aahs" from the audience at the time.

The things that were faked were game-logic things, mostly AI stuff like breaching doors, and dealing with physics.

Half-Life 2 - E3 2003 Full Demo

The complete Half-Life 2 demo that was presented by Valve at the Electronic Entertainment Expo in 2003.

youtu.be

(Direct feed, non-cam version)

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Thank you for sharing these videos. I find this all rather fascinating, the video-game industry has come a long way except in select cases where they promise more than they can actually deliver.

It's entirely possible this video was actually running in real-time. It's a not render, like I pointed out before, since it has the same awful quality motion blur as Uncharted 4.

But this video isn't a game. So much of it is very obviously composed of nothing but canned animations playing out with no input from the player and no AI behind them. I'd say at best maybe they could spin Ellie around the environment, if it's even true that they had a live presentation of it behind closed doors. They absolutely did not show Ellie take a different route, you either misread or are misremembering things.

This video just goes to show how much effort and work is put into these vertical slices.

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Yeah there's no doubt now, the reveal video was a vertical slice built specifically to showcase the engine at its best. I do wonder if they'll do something similar for their next-gen project.

It was a live action Star E3 Kinect demo played on stage during Microsoft's press conference where they blatantly faked a number of interactions. That was the most egregious

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I see, I tried Kinect a long time ago. Let's just say it wasn't a good experience.

 

[Luyrar]

i see a lot of people here sayin "its a downgrade, but is understandable for the scope of the game, etc.." . I dont see the same thinking when -for exemple- ubisoft downgrade their games.

it seems naughty dog gets a free pass on era for downgrade and crunch work envirioment. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Equanimity]

i see a lot of people here sayin "its a downgrade, but is understandable for the scope of the game, etc.." . I dont see the same thinking when -for exemple- ubisoft downgrade their games.

it seems naughty dog gets a free pass on era for downgrade and crunch work envirioment. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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They don't.

You don't see it because it doesn't happen anymore. Watch Dogs downgrade fiasco was around 7 years ago.

 

[Skade]

Was the final game close to the reveal?

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Not even remotely close. XD

 

[Vimto]

Yeah there was a big downgrade. Especially in lighting.

 

[Equanimity]

Not even remotely close. XD

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That's funny.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

The final game still looks amazing, but there's really no way the 2018 demo was running on a PS4 Pro, especially not at frame rates that look much higher than 30.

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It was confirmed that this demo was running on a Ps4 Pro.
It probably wasn't feasible to get this level of polish across the entire length of the game.

Also, a lot of the lighting changes are definitely due to playability. The demo was very dark and the entire scavenging part of the gameplay would have been annoying if it had always been that dark. Same for the thickness of the volumetric. They still have it in some areas, but they toned it back in others.

What they definitely removed is physics applied to fire particle effects.

 

[ken_matthews]

It was confirmed that this demo was running on a Ps4 Pro.
It probably wasn't feasible to get this level of polish across the entire length of the game.

Also, a lot of the lighting changes are definitely due to playability. The demo was very dark and the entire scavenging part of the gameplay would have been annoying if it had always been that dark. Same for the thickness of the volumetric. They still have it in some areas, but they toned it back in others.

What they definitely removed is physics applied to fire particle effects.

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I disagree, that's not what I see when I look at the comparison videos. The lighting took a significant hit in overall quality, ie. the amount of dynamic shadows cast, the soft shadows from global illumination, and volumetrics. The final game looks significantly flatter than what was shown in that demo. Don't get me wrong, some of the outside scenes in the jungle where there's a single direct light source from the moon look pretty much the same, but anytime there's multiple light sources from fires, dynamic lights, or where direct lighting spills in to closed or semi enclosed areas from the outside, where you would expect soft shadows and GI to really have an effect, there's a significant difference. The whole parking garage scene looks like a generational downgrading in lighting quality. I don't understand how that's debatable; it's incredibly obvious. Same with the character models, especially the heads.

Also how was it confirmed that the 2018 demo was actually running on a PS Pro? Was it confirmed the same way that the demo was "confirmed" as real gameplay? Now that the game is out, I think it's obvious that was not real gameplay. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but I just don't think it's possible given what the final game looks like (which still looks amazing and I absolutely love it). The 2018 demo looks like a generational leap in graphics at significantly higher frame rates.

 

[Chumunga64]

not surprising, the E3 gameplay reveal of the first game had AI that was a lot more dynamic than the final one

 

[Pharaoh]

Honestly other than the animations what I'm seeing is pretty normal for a game in development. Some changes are for artistic reasons and others I'm sure are to save performance but people comparing this to Ubi or TW3 downgrades must be joking.

 

[arsene_P5]

Is Sunhi playing this on normal? the brute just stands there in this gif. where as in my game, I had enemy A.I set to survivor and those guys were relentless. no one waited for their turn, one guy was shooting at me, while two others tried to melee me. it was amazing.



pretty sure they said it was captured on ps4 pro.

i would love to know why the faces were downgraded. animations can be scripted, but why the faces?

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Good question. Probably has to do with performance.

It was confirmed that this demo was running on a Ps4 Pro.
It probably wasn't feasible to get this level of polish across the entire length of the game.

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Reminder of the Uncharted 4 Real Time Trailer and what it actually was. The trailer was running at 60FPS and captured on PS4.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I disagree, that's not what I see when I look at the comparison videos. The lighting took a significant hit in overall quality, ie. the amount of dynamic shadows cast, the soft shadows from global illumination, and volumetrics. The final game looks significantly flatter than what was shown in that demo. Don't get me wrong, some of the outside scenes in the jungle where there's a single direct light source from the moon look pretty much the same, but anytime there's multiple light sources from fires, dynamic lights, or where direct lighting spills in to closed or semi enclosed areas from the outside, where you would expect soft shadows and GI to really have an effect, there's a significant difference. The whole parking garage scene looks like a generational downgrading in lighting quality. I don't understand how that's debatable; it's incredibly obvious. Same with the character models, especially the heads.

Also how was it confirmed that the 2018 demo was actually running on a PS Pro? Was it confirmed the same way that the demo was "confirmed" as real gameplay? Now that the game is out, I think it's obvious that was not real gameplay. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but I just don't think it's possible given what the final game looks like (which still looks amazing and I absolutely love it). The 2018 demo looks like a generational leap in graphics at significantly higher frame rates.

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Looking at the 2018 gameplay and the final game, all I can say is that if people complain about a downgrade here, they are missing the point of pre-alpha footage. When a vertical slice is being polished to a level expected to be the benchmark for the entire game, it's obvious that some things will need to change in order to achieve a coherent end result.
Take for example the illumination in the 2018 footage. Looks fine in the video, but would probably be way too dark for gameplay purposes in many, many areas of the game. Same for reducing fog density to increase visibility.
Changes and gameplay optimizations have to be expected.
But this just doesn't qualify as a downgrade:








This is the very definition of delivering on the promise.

 

[immsun]

Looking at the 2018 gameplay and the final game, all I can say is that if people complain about a downgrade here, they are missing the point of pre-alpha footage. When a vertical slice is being polished to a level expected to be the benchmark for the entire game, it's obvious that some things will need to change in order to achieve a coherent end result.
Take for example the illumination in the 2018 footage. Looks fine in the video, but would probably be way too dark for gameplay purposes in many, many areas of the game. Same for reducing fog density to increase visibility.
Changes and gameplay optimizations have to be expected.
But this just doesn't qualify as a downgrade:








This is the very definition of delivering on the promise.

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Indeed. Peak gaming.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

Indeed. Peak gaming.

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Peak gaming?

All I can say is that if Ubisoft or EA had released a game with -

Drastically downgraded character models (the 2018 demo looks to be using cut scene level models as per NXGamer).

Less detailed / smooth animations.

Lower quality lighting.

Lower quality fog volumes.

Reduced reflection accuracy / quality.

Reduced shadows both in quality and number of shadows cast by NPC's.

I'm sure some of this is for artistic reasons but imo the changes are mostly due to current hardware not being able to handle the fidelity of the E3 2018 demo in real time (at least at their chosen resolution and framerate targets). The in game enemy character models are an especially massive downgrade.

Now don't take this the wrong way. I bought TLOU II on day one. I have completed it. I would rate it 10/10. I think that visually it's the best looking game this generation on any platform and have gushed about it's graphics. It's second only to BotW as my overall game of the generation.

It does seem unfair though considering the shit Ubisoft, EA, Nintendo and CDPR got earlier this generation for releasing games which didn't match their initial reveal. Naughty Dog have now done this several times from downgraded cutscene lighting in U2 to entire features missing in the original TLOU to the famous U4 60fps reveal with character models still yet to be equalled even in real time cinematics this generation. Now this...

Beware the next time they reveal a game that it's probably not quite as stunning looking as it might seem. It ultimately doesn't matter to me but it should certainly be called out and they should be held to the same standards as the other publishers / developers.

 

[Firefly]

This is the very definition of delivering on the promise.

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Doesn't this just show how scripted the AI is? Its like the guy has memorized the exact movement of all enemies and has the cursor lined up for headshots even before they appear on screen.

 

[Cloud-Strife]

Doesn't this just show how scripted the AI is? Its like the guy has memorized the exact movement of all enemies and has the cursor lined up for headshots even before they appear on screen.

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You are wrong.. this game has LOTs of checkpoints.. like for example 10 in a single encounter.. so you can kill 3 people and die.. after that you restart the fight in the same spot over and over.. it's easy to remember where they are.

If you restart the entire encounter the AI will do anything and never repeat the same path after the initial wave of enemies.

 

[ken_matthews]

Looking at the 2018 gameplay and the final game, all I can say is that if people complain about a downgrade here, they are missing the point of pre-alpha footage. When a vertical slice is being polished to a level expected to be the benchmark for the entire game, it's obvious that some things will need to change in order to achieve a coherent end result.
Take for example the illumination in the 2018 footage. Looks fine in the video, but would probably be way too dark for gameplay purposes in many, many areas of the game. Same for reducing fog density to increase visibility.
Changes and gameplay optimizations have to be expected.

This is the very definition of delivering on the promise.

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Again, I am not trying to be a dick, but this is getting a bit silly.

The 2018 demo had character models, animations, and lighting effects at the level of the final release's in-game cinematics. The difference between the final game's cinematics and gameplay are generational. The lighting changes in the parking garage had nothing to do with how "dark" it looked (it doesn't look "dark" and there are plenty of areas in the final game that are significantly darker). The difference is literally the absence of more sophisticated lighting effects (soft shadows, dynamic lighting, GI, etc). They didn't change the lighting, character models, and animations for optimization reasons. There was no "optimizing" it because that demo was never remotely possible on a single PS4 Pro yet they passed it off as actual "gameplay". I personally don't care about "downgrades" and I expect companies to mislead consumers with deceptive marketing practices. And let me just make this extra clear, no "downgrade" has ever diminished my enjoyment of a game. The reason why I am replying to you is because it blows my mind that you and others cannot see the difference.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Again, I am not trying to be a dick, but this is getting a bit silly.

The 2018 demo had character models, animations, and lighting effects at the level of the final release's in-game cinematics. The difference between he final game's cinematics and gameplay are generational. The lighting changes in the parking garage had nothing to do with how "dark" it looked (it doesn't look "dark" and there are plenty of areas in the final game that are significantly darker). The difference is literally the absence of more sophisticated lighting effects (soft shadows, dynamic lighting, GI, etc). They didn't change the lighting, character models, and animations for optimization reasons. There was no "optimizing" it because that demo was never remotely possible on a single PS4 Pro yet they passed it off as actual "gameplay". I personally don't care about "downgrades" and I expect companies to mislead consumers with deceptive marketing practices. And let me just make this extra clear, no "downgrade" has ever diminished my enjoyment of a game. The reason why I am replying to you is because it blows my mind that you and others cannot see the difference.

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I'd recommend watching NXGamers comparison.


He came to the same conclusion, that the existing differences don't warrant being called a downgrade.


Also, what if not a Ps4 dev kit, do you think the 2018 demo was played and recorded on? Pretty obvious that this ran on Ps4 hardware. I mean, what else would it have been played on?

 

[The Third Heat]

The game was "optimized" not "downgraded." I can only think of a handful of games that have actually gotten significant downgrades from their initial demos. This one doesn't fit that bill. The game still looks and runs really well.

Another thing to consider is that these trailers are meant to be watched from a spectator's perspective, where you have more purchase on the finer details. When you're playing a game, it's a lot harder to see EVERY little detail, because your mind is focused on other, more pressing matters. So having the trailers be a tad bit more detailed and cinematic makes sense. It's meant to convey how Naughty Dog hopes the game will feel when you play it, not necessarily exactly what it'll look like.

 

[AWestCoastDirtyBird]

Doesn't this just show how scripted the AI is? Its like the guy has memorized the exact movement of all enemies and has the cursor lined up for headshots even before they appear on screen.

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Trust me the AI isn't scripted. For example if you die, the AI will change their routes on reload so you can't easily "fix" your mistake or at least that was the case on the hardest difficulty for me.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Trust me the AI isn't scripted. For example if you die, the AI will change their routes on reload so you can't easily "fix" your mistake or at least that was the case on the hardest difficulty for me.

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Some (maybe all?) of their starting routes are definitely the same every time you reload, even down to when they'll turn their heads and such. It's once you "activate" them and have them start reacting to you that it becomes more systemic.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Play this in a PS4 pro in a 4k TV and with HDR on and tell me all about that downgrade you want to be real, lmao.

 

[DJKippling]

sony's demos are nearly always bullshit. its not a really a surprise at this point. its just scummy. But then so are pretty much everyone else's early demos too.

 

[Equanimity]

I'd recommend watching NXGamers comparison.


He came to the same conclusion, that the existing differences don't warrant being called a downgrade.

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I think he was talking about Part II in relation to Watch Dogs, but even then I don't agree with NX Gamer.
It's a downgrade from the intial reveal, but no nearly as egregious as Watch Dogs.

 

[Equanimity]

sony's demos are nearly always bullshit. its not a really a surprise at this point. its just scummy. But then so are pretty much everyone else's early demos too.

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That's not true.

 

[Ocarina_117]

Play this in a PS4 pro in a 4k TV and with HDR on and tell me all about that downgrade you want to be real, lmao.

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I am and the the downgrade is indeed real.

 

[Edgar]

Play this in a PS4 pro in a 4k TV and with HDR on and tell me all about that downgrade you want to be real, lmao.

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I am playing on ps4 pro and 4k hdr TV and the downgrade is real. Take your blinders off

 

[ken_matthews]

I'd recommend watching NXGamers comparison.

He came to the same conclusion, that the existing differences don't warrant being called a downgrade.

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I am sorry but I don't see how he can justify many conclusions about the lighting in his video. He just skips over all the dynamic shadows, soft shadows, and GI that is absent from the final game. You honestly don't notice all the missing shadow casting lights? All the missing soft shadows? You don't see how flat the lighting is? Here is another example from the parking garage:

You honestly cannot see the differences?

Also, what if not a Ps4 dev kit, do you think the 2018 demo was played and recorded on? Pretty obvious that this ran on Ps4 hardware. I mean, what else would it have been played on?

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See arsene_P5's post on this page:

And again, I don't care about "downgrades". I just blows my mind that people cannot see the obvious differences.

 

[Edgar]

I am sorry but I don't see how he can justify many conclusions about the lighting in his video. He just skips over all the dynamic shadows, soft shadows, and GI that is absent from the final game. You honestly don't notice all the missing shadow casting lights? All the missing soft shadows? You don't see how flat the lighting is? Here is another example from the parking garage:

You honestly cannot see the differences?




See arsene_P5's post on this page:

And again, I don't care about "downgrades". I just blows my mind that people cannot see the obvious differences.

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They can, but it's not ubisoft or cdpr or anything of the sort. It's ND and some people think ND can't succumb to the vertical slices /marketing and realities of game development. People has this idealized version of ND in their heads that is hard to shake off

 

[ken_matthews]

They can, but it's not ubisoft or cdpr or anything of the sort. It's ND and some people think ND can't succumb to the vertical slices /marketing and realities of game development. People has this idealized version of ND in their heads that is hard to shake off

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Maybe, but I don't know. This is the same sort of thing that went down in a thread about raytracing a few months ago. People claimed that they couldn't see the raytraced effects in Control. I had to draw circles and arrows to highlight the differences in that thread too.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I am sorry but I don't see how he can justify many conclusions about the lighting in his video. He just skips over all the dynamic shadows, soft shadows, and GI that is absent from the final game. You honestly don't notice all the missing shadow casting lights? All the missing soft shadows? You don't see how flat the lighting is? Here is another example from the parking garage:

You honestly cannot see the differences?

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I can see the difference, I just don't think that several changes, some seemingly improving, some seemingly decreasing the overall quality, amount to a downgrade in total.

See arsene_P5's post on this page:

And again, I don't care about "downgrades". I just blows my mind that people cannot see the obvious differences.

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This has nothing to do with TLoU2 2018 gameplay, this was the basis for a short cutscene(no gameplay) that never occurred in UC4.

The 2018 TLoU2 demo was definitely played by someone, it wasn't a scripted scene.

 

[8byte]

...I get it, I do...but why are people acting like the changes mean the game looks bad? Even with these downgrades or changes, it's still visually among the top of its class. I'm confused why this is such a big deal?

 

[ken_matthews]

I can see the difference, I just don't think that several changes, some seemingly improving, some seemingly decreasing the overall quality, amount to a downgrade in total.

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Lol. Did you major in marketing/PR? I get it, "downgrade" is a useless word and it is silly if somebody gets upset about differences between pre-release and final graphics. But come on, they passed in-game cinematic level graphics off as gameplay, and there is a generational difference between the two; just look at the two examples I posted (or just play the game). They didn't "downgrade" the visual quality because of gameplay preferences. Instead, the gameplay visuals dropped because it is literally impossible for the gameplay to look like the cinematics; the PS4 Pro does not have the hardware for it (game logic an AI are really expensive). If it was possible to make the gameplay look like the cinematics, then they would have. I think that is a fair take on this.

With all that said, the final game is still amazing. The cinematics are best in class and actually have been upgraded in some ways in the final game. And the gameplay still looks great, even if it doesn't come close to the cinematics.


EDIT:

This has nothing to do with TLoU2 2018 gameplay, this was the basis for a short cutscene(no gameplay) that never occurred in UC4.

The 2018 TLoU2 demo was definitely played by someone, it wasn't a scripted scene.

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How do you know they didn't do something similar? Do you have a source/evidence that shows it was actually non-scripted gameplay played on a PS4 Pro?

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I am and the the downgrade is indeed real.

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I am playing on ps4 pro and 4k hdr TV and the downgrade is real. Take your blinders off

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It's hardly a big deal when It's the best looking game on PS4 ever.

Reading some posts you'd think this is a Watch Dogs type of situation.

 

[Ocarina_117]

It's hardly a big deal when It's the best looking game on PS4 ever.

Reading some posts you'd think this is a Watch Dogs type of situation.

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But it's still is a downgrade.

The animations and lighting are much better in the E3 demo.

People, including a developer, were ridiculed for showing skepticism for the original E3 demo.

Yes the game still looks phenomenal. But ND did sell dreams with that first showing. Enemy animations, in particular, don't live up in the game.

 

[Cloud-Strife]

Clearly some people here didn't play the game on a Pro and with a decent 4k TV.

The E3 2018 slice is a more "linear" demo with a corridor from start to finish.

In the final game that same part at the start is inside a bigger area so of course the lightning conditions are going to be different. The facial animations are not on the same quality but that was expected since they are random npc and we need to wait for next gen to get something that advanced. Anyways the final result in insane and pretty much top tier compared to any other game out there.

We can all agree that the 2018 lightning looks better but it's just an adjustment. You can find incredible lightning on so many other parts of the game.

Is the best looking game this gen and of course we can see a small downgrade on the same part compared to the 2018 demo but if you actually play the game you can find pretty much the same quality on many different places. So it was an upgrade and a downgrade but overall the game got improved.

 

[nib95]

Whilst I still think this is the best looking game I've ever played, with the best animations I've experienced, ultimately there is still a downgrade, and whilst it's not massive one, it is still noticeable. Graphically it's very close, with differences mostly in the fog and aspects of lighting intensity (fire), but animations wise the blending and fluidity is clearly a step down.

In any case, I'd like to personally apologise to Crossing Eden whom I debated with back and forth about this, as I was confident the demos animations would be representative of the final game even if not every animation made it in.

Turns out you were right on this one dude, and it wasn't just just that they played through this level over and over till they got a perfect run, but that infact a lot of it was Indeed scripted.

I want to be more angry at Naughty Dog about this, but given the games visuals and animations are still class leading, I can't be too mad. I will however be more cautious about their gameplay presentations going forward.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

But it's still is a downgrade.

The animations and lighting are much better in the E3 demo.

People, including a developer, were ridiculed for showing skepticism for the original E3 demo.

Yes the game still looks phenomenal. But ND did sell dreams with that first showing. Enemy animations, in particular, don't live up in the game.

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I honestly can't imagine the game being enjoyable and have those animations.
They would be getting criticisms like RDR2 in that regard.
You either get realistic animations or responsive ones.
I actually think the final game in terms of animations is better as a game than RD2 because it's 50/50 in terms of realism and playability.

And this is coming from someone that played both almost back to back and considering them as GOTG.

Fortunately Naughty Dogs are learning. This was much better than what they did with Uncharted 4's first trailer.

 

[Ocarina_117]

I honestly can't imagine the game being enjoyable and have those animations.
They would be getting criticisms like RDR2 in that regard.
You either get realistic animations or responsive ones.
I actually think the final game in terms of animations is better as a game than RD2 because it's 50/50 in terms of realism and playability.

And this is coming from someone that played both almost back to back and considering them as GOTG.

Fortunately Naughty Dogs are learning. This was much better than what they did with Uncharted 4's first trailer.

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Yeah I agree with that.

The game is much better off with Ellie's animations being "simplified". It's really fluid and feels great to play. Rockstar could learn a thing or two from ND here.,

I wish enemy animations looked as good as they did in the demo though. The one Scar taking three bullets to the body and the scar who gets shot looking under the car in particular look mind blowing.

The rest is small things which I can see ND delivering on next gen. The shelves and flames reacting to the brute's attacks for example.,

 

[ken_matthews]

Clearly some people here didn't play the game on a Pro and with a decent 4k TV.

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I certainly did.

We can all agree that the 2018 lightning looks better but it's just an adjustment. You can find incredible lightning on so many other parts of the game.

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Again, the final game still looks great, but the lighting is far more than just an "adjustment" from the 2018 demo. It is literally the absence of a far more sophisticated and better looking real-time lighting solution.

EDIT: You also realize that photo mode bumps up the visual fidelity by a lot, right?

 

[DJKippling]

That's not true.

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yes it is.

 

[CamberGreber]

So many Willfully blind people here. Its so freaking sad to to see.
I am quite certain ND was fully aware of what marketing BS that 2018 footage was in just the same way they where aware of what BS there Uncharted 4 footage was as well.

Why do people get excited about the graphics of Cutscenes when they might as well be prerendered. The interactive elements is what makes games unique. Who gives a shit whether ND delivered high quality cutescene models. The in game models are all that matter when discussing downgrades. At least TLOU2 isnt a downgraded as GoT whose gameplay graphics have been utterly gutted since the reveal. We all should of know that reveal was utter bullshit.

 

[Equanimity]

yes it is.

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Break it down then.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Game's visuals got downgraded. Still looks good, but downgraded and not as good looking as what they showed initially. A rather simple truth that is easy to digest.

 

[Cloud-Strife]

I certainly did.



Again, the final game still looks great, but the lighting is far more than just an "adjustment" from the 2018 demo. It is literally the absence of a far more sophisticated and better looking real-time lighting solution.

EDIT: You also realize that photo mode bumps up the visual fidelity by a lot, right?

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The first pic I posted is a full gameplay one.. no UI no Photomode.

 

[Nothing Loud]

i see a lot of people here sayin "its a downgrade, but is understandable for the scope of the game, etc.." . I dont see the same thinking when -for exemple- ubisoft downgrade their games.

it seems naughty dog gets a free pass on era for downgrade and crunch work envirioment. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I don't see anyone excusing crunch. Is this just you?

Everything else is about context. Ubisoft doesn't make the most impressive TPS level design or animation or cutscenes, so of course in comparison, people are going to credit TLOU2's obvious successes there and say they came damn close to their target while still being among the best in the industry at graphics and animation.

 

[ken_matthews]

I don't see anyone excusing crunch. Is this just you?

Everything else is about context. Ubisoft doesn't make the most impressive TPS level design or animation or cutscenes, so of course in comparison, people are going to credit TLOU2's obvious successes there and say they came damn close to their target while still being among the best in the industry at graphics and animation.

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I think that is fair. The final product is amazing, and the TLoU2 is one of the best game's I've played, and easily the best looking console game (gameplay graphics included). It's just odd how many people cannot acknowledge that the 2018 "gameplay" reveal was as slippery move by ND. They should have just said that the demo was running on a development system (which it probably was and I will bet was significantly more powerful than a PS4 Pro), that the visual quality was their target for the in-game cinematics (which they exceeded in some ways), that gameplay graphics will obviously not look as good, and that they hoped to achieve a comparable gameplay experience with the high quality animations. That would have been the honest thing to do. And yeah, they came damn close in many ways.

 

[ss_lemonade]

Clearly some people here didn't play the game on a Pro and with a decent 4k TV.

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Afaik, there's no visual differences between a Pro and Standard PS4, other than a resolution bump. You're still seeing the same visual makeup between the 2 consoles so not sure why even say that.

The downgrade is obvious when watching comparison videos, but I think the end result is still one of the best looking games I've played.

 

[arsene_P5]

Peak gaming?

All I can say is that if Ubisoft or EA had released a game with -

Drastically downgraded character models (the 2018 demo looks to be using cut scene level models as per NXGamer).

Less detailed / smooth animations.

Lower quality lighting.

Lower quality fog volumes.

Reduced reflection accuracy / quality.

Reduced shadows both in quality and number of shadows cast by NPC's.

I'm sure some of this is for artistic reasons but imo the changes are mostly due to current hardware not being able to handle the fidelity of the E3 2018 demo in real time (at least at their chosen resolution and framerate targets). The in game enemy character models are an especially massive downgrade.

Now don't take this the wrong way. I bought TLOU II on day one. I have completed it. I would rate it 10/10. I think that visually it's the best looking game this generation on any platform and have gushed about it's graphics. It's second only to BotW as my overall game of the generation.

It does seem unfair though considering the shit Ubisoft, EA, Nintendo and CDPR got earlier this generation for releasing games which didn't match their initial reveal. Naughty Dog have now done this several times from downgraded cutscene lighting in U2 to entire features missing in the original TLOU to the famous U4 60fps reveal with character models still yet to be equalled even in real time cinematics this generation. Now this...

Beware the next time they reveal a game that it's probably not quite as stunning looking as it might seem. It ultimately doesn't matter to me but it should certainly be called out and they should be held to the same standards as the other publishers / developers.

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I share your opinion. The Last of Us 2 is a masterpiece and the best looking current gen game without a doubt. But these facts don't excuse the downgrades.

He came to the same conclusion, that the existing differences don't warrant being called a downgrade.

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I respect NXGamer, but this doesn't make any sense when the same person said that ND used the cinematic models of the characters in the demo, which the retail game doesn't use during gameplay. What's the excuse for that? Is it now a artistic choice to use lower quality models during gameplay? xD