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LoudMouse

Member
Nov 23, 2017
3,540
I'm genuinely curious, because I don't want to be unfairly judgemental or jump to conclusions, but what about the scene felt forced to you?

The scene felt superbly directed to me, rivaling things we see in television / film. Nothing about the kiss felt forced or rushed to me. Remember we are jumping to Ellie years after the first game and its clear this scene has been built up over time we haven't seen to me.

Well, corny would probably be a better word. To go from a kiss with the words, 'Oh, Ellie, I think they should be terrified of you' (referring to the men watching) to a scene in which Ellie is plunging a knife into a man's neck is just so forced and manufactured. It doesn't come across as honest but rather a gimmick.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
Imagine hating an incredible character like Ellie because she like to kiss girls, in the year 2018

Imagine screaming at the top of your lungs Neil and Naughty Dog are ruining gaming with their "SJW AGENDA" in the year 2018 while watching one of the best directed scenes in the history of gaming

Sad as fuck, and in the off chance you read this Neil, I named my first and only daughter Ellie after her when playing TLOU. And I couldn't be more proud.
What's the full lexicon of the average gamergator? I see the term SJW bandied about quite often from them, but is there any other significant marker that bears mentioning of these folks?
 

Benji

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
I believe he is referring to the "i am just a girl - no threat" line. It felt forced to me as well, as if it hasnt already been established that Ellie is a badass, we need to make a new blatant statement.

But do the people around Ellie know what kind of threat she is?

Remember in the first game Joel is the one enacting the vast majority of the violence. Its likely that Ellie has lived the majority of her teenage years as well, a normal enough teenager and hid as much as she can about her fucked up history and the things she went through with Joel.

The comment about her being no threat as a girl is a self reflective statement I think and Ellie trying to project herself as a "nornal" teenage girl and not who she really is
 

IAmAnAgnostic

Member
Nov 2, 2017
202
It was one location during one time of the day that takes place over about 5 minutes. You don't think a Naughty Dog game is going to have visual and setting variety?
There's been other trailers.

And so far no, and the director has said that this will be much darker in tone and about revenge or something along those lines.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,789
It was one location during one time of the day that takes place over about 5 minutes. You don't think a Naughty Dog game is going to have visual and setting variety?
Heck, the very first trailer we saw Ellie singing in a house where the sun was shining bright. The last 2 segments shown were in the dark, sure, but that's hardly indicative of a ~10-15 (guessing here) hour game.
 

Nere

Member
Dec 8, 2017
2,172
Wasn't that impressed to be honest, looks just like the Last of Us with small improvements.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,722
I believe he is referring to the "i am just a girl - no threat" line. It felt forced to me as well, as if it hasnt already been established that Ellie is a badass, we need to make a new blatant statement.
For the love of fuck

it's a double meaning, you crazies

it's taking the context of one thing, and using it to ironically mean another thing in another context.

Ellie saying that to Dina means she meant it romantically. She's saying she doesn't see herself as competition to men for Dina's affections. Dina saying that she is is her telling Ellie that, yes, she's into girls as well and she is free to express that.

The cut to Ellie killing a dude after having said that line is a visual irony.
 

-Amon-

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
572
Her main weapons were her knife, gun, b/a and machete. Don't know what you mean by them being too much for her physical build.. like.. What? I honestly don't get it..

A single arrow in the back does not kill you instantly.

Te weapon i was referring to was that kind of mace she uses in the first combat sequence. She swings it like it has no weight.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
There's been other trailers.

And so far no, and the director has said that this will be much darker in tone and about revenge or something along those lines.
...and both trailers show very specific, singular scenes.

Dark tone doesn't mean dark in terms of actual lack of sunlight as well. Even in this very trailer we get a very 'bright' scene in terms of lighting and mood. They're establishing a tone and rain and night definitely does that. It seems very premature to write an entire game off based on very little footage. Especially one likely at least a year away from even releasing.
 

LoudMouse

Member
Nov 23, 2017
3,540
For the love of fuck

it's a double meaning, you crazies

it's taking the context of one thing, and using it to ironically mean another thing in another context.

Ellie saying that to Dina means she meant it romantically. She's saying she doesn't see herself as competition to men for Dina's affections. Dina saying that she is is her telling Ellie that, yes, she's into girls as well and she is free to express that.

The cut to Ellie killing a dude after having said that line is a visual irony.

Yeah, I know. This is odd. That's what I'm talking about. It's corny.
 

BladeX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,125
People took offense at this trailer? Like fucking what?
Unlike the original games trailer they actually avoided lingering on the gore like a teenager who saw his first gore porn, all the while still cranking up the intensity with great camera work to highlight impacts and violence.

And the kiss? Best animated kiss in any 3d media ever. Seriously, the animation in that scene was peerless.
If you feel uncomfortable looking at two women kissing for their own pleasure instead of yours, cut down on the porn, it is messing with your brain. And I am 100% sincere with that. Learn some empathy as a first step to become less bigoted.

Kiss was absolutely fine.
Violence was fine.

What I did not like is the unnecessary "I am just a girl - no threat" shit and the fact that the gameplay did not show (from what we saw) a lot of change from the past. Yes I was expecting the same approach but there were not enough new mechanics shown. It literally felt like TLOU1 with just 1-2 things added. I expected more to be shown.
 

IAmAnAgnostic

Member
Nov 2, 2017
202
...and both trailers show very specific, singular scenes.

Dark tone doesn't mean dark in terms of actual lack of sunlight as well. Even in this very trailer we get a very 'bright' scene in terms of lighting and mood. They're establishing a tone and rain and night definitely does that. It seems very premature to write an entire game off based on very little footage. Especially one likely at least a year away from even releasing.

I'm not writing off the game due to this one scene. I'm beginning to write it off since I found no scene interesting, (that whole trailer in the woods at night with torture? I felt nothing) I ended up hating their last game UC4, and "Ellie on a revenge mission" just isn't something I'm itching to see storywise either. If I see something that actually catches my attention in a positive way, sure, but that hasn't happened so far.

People are allowed to be excited for products and like trailers, and I'm allowed to not be excited by what I see.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
What's the over/under on Joel biting the dust in the early part of the game?
 

gates2

Banned
Jun 3, 2018
312
Wasn't that impressed to be honest, looks just like the Last of Us with small improvements.

Absolutely agree, aside from the not impressed part.
Over 200 game of the year awards, personal game of the year as well as top 3 of both the generation as well as decade.

So even if the game was worse it could still be excellent. But as you say there are even improvements!

Also loved the kiss it looked really natural the animation and it didn't feel uncanny
 

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Well, corny would probably be a better word. To go from a kiss with the words, 'Oh, Ellie, I think they should be terrified of you' (referring to the men watching) to a scene in which Ellie is plunging a knife into a man's neck is just so forced and manufactured. It doesn't come across as honest but rather a gimmick.
How is it dishonest?

I feel like you're trying to justify your opinion after the fact, by concocting reasons that aren't actually there. There is nothing "dishonest" about that scene. Insofar as it's possible to earn a moment in the span of 2 minutes, they did an admirable job. Knowing what we know of Ellie, and what she has had to do to survive, and how capable she actually is, the dichotomy between those two moment (people having to be "terrified" of her in the context of a romantic relationship, and people having to be terrified of her and her murderous intent) is absolutely "honest", earned, contextualized, and whatever the heck else you want it to be.
 

nomis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,013
It's funny to watch this coming off the Tomb Raider gameplay reveal. The two showed basically the same gameplay sequence, yet TLOU is just miles ahead on absolutely every front.

the comparison and the praise for ND has been done to death, but honestly the difference in animation between the two is mind boggling. Tomb Raider just looks like the same animations as the last one but with a new knife pose, which is perfectly serviceable, but TLOU2 looks like real life.
 

Aokiji

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Los Angeles
i can understand the first one to an extent but in fact most posts have been about avoiding tropes and gay characters getting killed off. And violence were having a solid discussion about how violence can be offputting with the graphical fidelity we are hitting ... Maybe some ppl just disagree with you. Its not a hive mind forum. The other one wasnt and im pretty sure this one isnt given how many of us are having a fruitful interesting dicussion.
it's not a hive mind, and i don't think it is, but the past week has been one of the worst on here for sure. It doesnt even have to do with disagreeing. some of the reactions to things have been real sad to see. either way, you are right on the final part. it's getting back to fruitful discussion, and that's what i'd hope we're all here for.

There's no way to police or foretell how people think or feel before they demonstrate them. I don't see the mods ignoring anything problematic given their track record thus far.

Those who want Ellie to be OHK by anything, I'm sure there's a new Grounded mode. As for what she's dishing out, I don't see anything unbelievable. She's a fit and experienced survivor. We saw her shanking people to death in Part 1 ffs.
the mods are doing a good job usually from what i see, and yea you cant really vet ppl on the internet. it's just been an influx of thread ruining posts the past week. but i believe it'll get back to normal, was just sad seing our first e3 turn out like this.

and yea, Ellie butchered David's head open in the first game, so i really dont understand the overreaction to violence. i mean we're literally coming from a generation where God of War 3 happened.
 

Danielsan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,701
The Netherlands
So back after 4 hours of sleep. Rewatched the video again. I haven't read the thread and I'm sure there will be plenty of complaints about the violence, which is understandable given how far they are taking it. But I just want to take the time to mention just how incredible the direction, writing and animation are in the scene that bookends the gameplay section. In 4 minutes they manage to convey so much about these characters and get an emotional response out of me. The writing and the performances from the actors really feel flawless. And those animations, so many little touches that completely sell the entire performance.

The gameplay looks rock solid too. And while I do think the violence/gore goes a bit too far for my liking, it does completely fit and sell this world. I for one can't wait to dig in when this releases. I have absolute faith that they will knock this out of the park.
 

LoudMouse

Member
Nov 23, 2017
3,540
How is it dishonest?

I feel like you're trying to justify your opinion after the fact, by concocting reasons that aren't actually there. There is nothing "dishonest" about that scene. Insofar as it's possible to earn a moment in the span of 2 minutes, they did an admirable job. Knowing what we know of Ellie, and what she has had to do to survive, and how capable she actually is, the dichotomy between those two moment (people having to be "terrified" of her in the context of a romantic relationship, and people having to be terrified of her and her murderous intent) is absolutely "honest", earned, contextualized, and whatever the heck else you want it to be.

That's your opinion, and that's fine. In my opinion it's a corny cut. Let's leave it at that.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,722
Yeah, I know. This is odd. That's what I'm talking about. It's corny.
Not really. It's not the most elegant use of contrasting visuals with double meaning dialogue I've ever seen, but it's not doing anything wrong as far as I can tell. The dialogue itself is something a normal person would believably say, and it's built up to it well. The poses are purposesful. Ellie isn't doing just any violent thing, she's holding the guy in question close to as he dies, which visually both mirrors and contrasts with the affectionate way Ellie is holding Dina. It's perfectly fine as a transition.

Of course, you're free to have your own opinion, but I'm not seeing any sort of solid criticism that supports that opinion.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
I find the phrase 'Virtue signaling' pretty apparent. Asshole alt rights love it for some reason. Raises a red flag for me personally.
Yes. They do so with me as well. Is it possible that some people get looped into it as well without realizing it? Using alt-right language but without the animus? The terms are used so ad nauseum by these folks that they lose any edginess they might have had in the past. I always roll my eyes when I hear the term used in real life, and they're always the same stock, visual cliches. Imagine dating or being married to that kind of personality. Imagine being a parent or sibling and having to hear these losers prattle on about SJW's and feminazis at dinner time.
 

OutOfcontrol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
242
Ellie is the daughter Kratos always wanted

3512.jpg
 

RyoonZ

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
645
Anyone know who Jesse (Asian guy) is? I know they say Stephen Chang but google doesn't show much and imdb doesn't look like the guy in the trailer.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
Not really. It's not the most elegant use of contrasting visuals with double meaning dialogue I've ever seen, but it's not doing anything wrong as far as I can tell. The dialogue itself is something a normal person would believably say, and it's built up to it well. The poses are purposesful. Ellie isn't doing just any violent thing, she's holding the guy in question close to as he dies, which visually both mirrors and contrasts with the affectionate way Ellie is holding Dina. It's perfectly fine as a transition.

Of course, you're free to have your own opinion, but I'm not seeing any sort of solid criticism that supports that opinion.
I want to eat this post like cake.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,269
Well, corny would probably be a better word. To go from a kiss with the words, 'Oh, Ellie, I think they should be terrified of you' (referring to the men watching) to a scene in which Ellie is plunging a knife into a man's neck is just so forced and manufactured. It doesn't come across as honest but rather a gimmick.

Are you sure she is kill a man ?
I look at the trailer again and it looks like it can be woman .
 
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