MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,837
Argentina
The troll fight in the first GOW demo had him using the big rock thing to smash the ice they were fighting on. Eventually the whole floor breaks of an that area is destroyed. That sequence does not exist in the final game. That is fact. Perhaps it existed in some build early on which may have been playable but not in the final one. Sony first party games do this a lot. TLOU 1 did the same. Buddy AI pathing in the final game was no where near as good as the E3 demo. Stuff gets taken out as game comes to completion. Same will happen here.

That doesn't make it fake tho, just not in the final game because games are in development and design and script decisions are made. God of War has way more complicated things than what we saw in that demo.

I agree that there were some things about the TLOU demo that didn't end up being in the game and were important, fortunately for me I didn't notice it when I played it.
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,807
That doesn't make it fake tho, just not in the final game because games are in development and design and script decisions are made. God of War has way more complicated things than what we saw in that demo.

I agree that there were some things about the TLOU demo that didn't end up being in the game and were important, fortunately for me I didn't notice it when I played it.

Thing is you have no way to prove whether it was real or fake. Those demos where only shown in the conference. There wasn't even a playable demo for the press. They could have been fake.

Also, we shouldn't be just ok with publisher showing spruced up versions of the game. Or showing content that does not exist in the final game. The fact that many companies do this does not justify it. It is a horrible trend and it sucks that it's normalized.
 

Horned Reaper

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,560
That doesn't make it fake tho, just not in the final game because games are in development and design and script decisions are made. God of War has way more complicated things than what we saw in that demo.

I agree that there were some things about the TLOU demo that didn't end up being in the game and were important, fortunately for me I didn't notice it when I played it.

People are stretching the meaning of the word fake because it was just a 'mistranslation'. I wish the dev just said he was wrong instead, so people wouldn't be reaching for straws in every way they can.
 

Porcupine_i

Member
Apr 9, 2018
137
Did anyone else notice that Ellie killed a tall bald guy armed with an axe at the end of the demo?

Is that Naughty Dog saying they are better than Santa Monica Studios? :D
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,678
The troll fight in the first GOW demo had him using the big rock thing to smash the ice they were fighting on. Eventually the whole floor breaks of an that area is destroyed. That sequence does not exist in the final game. That is fact. Perhaps it existed in some build early on which may have been playable but not in the final one. Sony first party games do this a lot. TLOU 1 did the same. Buddy AI pathing in the final game was no where near as good as the E3 demo. Stuff gets taken out as game comes to completion. Same will happen here.

Its one thing to say a certain sequence did not make it in the final game (happens all the time) and completely different thing to say they fill in the gaps to fool you into thinking its part of the gameplay and it will be missing from final game. That's straight up accusing someone of deliberate deception.
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,807
Its one thing to say a certain sequence did not make it in the final game (happens all the time) and completely different thing to say they fill in the gaps to fool you into thinking its part of the gameplay and it will be missing from final game. That's straight up accusing someone of deliberate deception.
The end result is still the same. They show things that doesn't exist in the final game. Whether that's done in good faith or not is irrelevant.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,676
Fairly sure I had a similar moment occur when an enemy grabbed me from behind and Nate tossed him into that trellis object.

Even if it can't *exactly* be reproduced in that spot, the mechanic is still in the game, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Besides, it was under development at the time and things are bound to change at release. I wouldn't say it's any worse just because this scene doesn't occur every time in this spot (in fact, it's better for replayability because of how dynamic it is).
It doesn't occur EVER. Literally i've replayed that spot over and over again, the only constant is that the enemy is there, but even if you let him grab you, it will never look as dynamic as in the e3 demo let alone you punching him through a wall. Because it was a custom animation.

Was re-watching a gdc talk about Last of Us 1 melee by Anthony Newman (co-game director on Part 2.) I timestamped the part where he showed pre=alpha footage of the game, where they had a dodge button during melee.

Cool that they added it for the sequel.

A lot of sequel features tend to be scrapped ideas from the first game.
 

VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,431
Can't wait to see what infected fights look like.

Or what kind of "more intimate" set pieces ND has in store. The original game had memorable ones like being shot at by that sniper. Or chased by a tank. Can't wait to see what they do here.

Also love the whistling and the communication of the AI. Also how lifelike they look while sweeping a room. I remember MGS2 room sweeps impressing me way back when, but this is another level.
 

Desfrog

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,113
Agreed, though I don't like the way the small ring always remains on screen. It should disappear entirely until it's actually needed, much like the UI behaves in UC4 and TLOU.
The small ring actually shows your visibility ,getting smaller when you enter foliage or go prone. Guessing it will always have to be on screen due to that.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
The small ring actually shows your visibility ,getting smaller when you enter foliage or go prone. Guessing it will always have to be on screen due to that.
They lifted that straight from Thief's light/shadow gem, which showed how visible you were. Good for them

188
6B9ToaI.png
 

Aesop

Member
Oct 27, 2017
314
Germany
But the ring only shows foliage (e.g. grass) and lighting visibility (standing in front of a light/ fire source). It doesn't change when you are behind cover.
 

Elysiums

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
476


Check this sequence from 6:28 up to the end.. the gameplay is fantastic and this game is from 2013.. now 5 years later I can't imagine what we will get in the final product in The Last of Us 2
 

Dragon1893

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,457
I think I'm going to go on a media blackout now. I was in day 1 regardless but I fucking loved that gameplay video.

It's nothing substantially different from the first game, but I honestly didn't want them to mess with it that much to begin with. Only thing I wanted was more traversal/stealth options and improved hand to hand combat and this looks to have done that.

Pair that up with industry leading graphics, what looks to be a great story and tense gameplay and you have yourself a GOTY candidate.

Same, I always go on media blackouts early. ND in particular show way too much of their games. I'm so glad I avoided most of the pre-release footage of the uncharted games, can't believe how much they spoiled, would've diminished my enjoyment tremendously
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,837
Argentina
Thing is you have no way to prove whether it was real or fake. Those demos where only shown in the conference. There wasn't even a playable demo for the press. They could have been fake.

Also, we shouldn't be just ok with publisher showing spruced up versions of the game. Or showing content that does not exist in the final game. The fact that many companies do this does not justify it. It is a horrible trend and it sucks that it's normalized.

It is usually mentioned that showings are representative of the final game.

Maybe what shouldn't happen is people demanding for piece of media and early gameplay showings. Maybe games shouldn't be announced early. Maybe people shouldn't demand for next gen projects presentations.

All these things happens, it's like there's almost no solution. I choose to trust and if in the final game there's one animation missing, well I won't be overanalyzing videos, there are bigger things that worry me.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,666
Can't wait to see what infected fights look like.

Or what kind of "more intimate" set pieces ND has in store. The original game had memorable ones like being shot at by that sniper. Or chased by a tank. Can't wait to see what they do here.

Also love the whistling and the communication of the AI. Also how lifelike they look while sweeping a room. I remember MGS2 room sweeps impressing me way back when, but this is another level.
My favorite thing with this, especially with enemies have names, is that it encourages smaller numbers of enemies and more intimate encounters instead of just throwing ton of faceless foes at you.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,106
The word fake gets thrown around because it is "technically" fake in that regard.


Yes, scripted animations that doesn't actually exist or isn't the result of a player pressing buttons. Stuff like this:
fiVyk7S.gif

Dude, the reason for demos being so choreographed is because in a very short period of gameplay the developer has to show all or almost all new mechanics and possibilities, these two enemies were there just to show who watched the AI behavior of their partner , the new dynamics and evolution compared to the previous game, but in the final version does not need them there, after all this is the 12th chapter of the game, at this point has already happened a lot these actions, is not news for the player and put them there always would break the pace of that setpiece,it's the same case with the Troll in God of War, so no demo is 1: 1 with the final version, of course there are false demos, but that was never the case with Naughty Dog .
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,254
So the woman in the PGW trailer can't be Ellie's mother, right? Considering that the cult who are the enemies in the new gameplay are present in that trailer, its hard to imagine them having survived 20+ years, making me think she is contemporary with the time period of this trailer.

Couldn't her mom secretly be alive?
 

BoJack

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
3,502
Guys, Joel will be playable at some point, at least for like 1 hour. It's the main surprise of the game. Mark my words.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,034
I want play with Joel,Neil don't disappointed me :(

Guys, Joel will be playable at some point, at least for like 1 hour. It's the main surprise of the game. Mark my words.

I really hope so.

Well Ellie is lead character. That is fine but I hope Joel will be playable as surprise character or at least a complete DLC is dedicated to him like for the first game. ND are always surprising us. We started the first game playing with Joel's daughter then things chanegd suddenly.

Joel is surely not dead, but the thing worse than death happening to him is maybe tha he got infected somehow or that his face got disfigured, blinded or something like that. That is why they avoided showing him and even in the only instance he was there, we didn't see his face. We will be shocked by seeing him anyway.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,254
I would hate it if they come up with some fucking bullshit like that. We get enough of that on Television shows and that's usually when they jump the shark for me.

Plus they kinda already did the same thing in Uncharted 4 with Sam, though it wasn't framed as a big surprise within the game itself, only at the very beginning.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,676
Dude, the reason for demos being so choreographed is because in a very short period of gameplay the developer has to show all or almost all new mechanics and possibilities, these two enemies were there just to show who watched the AI behavior of their partner , the new dynamics and evolution compared to the previous game, but in the final version does not need them there, after all this is the 12th chapter of the game, at this point has already happened a lot these actions, is not news for the player and put them there always would break the pace of that setpiece,it's the same case with the Troll in God of War, so no demo is 1: 1 with the final version, of course there are false demos, but that was never the case with Naughty Dog .
I'm literally not talking about choreographing.
 

zsynqx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,450
Switching character is something they did in both TLOU and Uncharted 4. I'd be surprised if they don't do the same here.
 

JK-Money

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,558
I doubt it, it is mentioned she died within a day of giving birth to Ellie- Marlene was there too so I doubt that is something she would like about.

I would hate it if they come up with some fucking bullshit like that. We get enough of that on Television shows and that's usually when they jump the shark for me.
What if Marlene lied and instead took the baby away. Trying to kill Ellies mom and not succeeding she comes back looking for revenge, the hate theme can run simultaneously with Ellie getting revenge on whoever and her mother as well until inevitably....they meet
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
What if Marlene lied and instead took the baby away. Trying to kill Ellies mom and not succeeding she comes back looking for revenge, the hate theme can run simultaneously with Ellie getting revenge on whoever and her mother as well until inevitably....they meet
That would be some truly shit writing. It would undermine much of what made Marlene's character work.

I don't trust much, but I trust them to be better than that.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
After catching up on most of the E3 footage of other games it just biggles my mind how far ahead of everyone else ND are with this.
Sure there are games like Death Stranding, Ghost Of Tsushima and others with incredible visuals(even though I'd argue that TLoU looks quite a bit better than them as well), but were this game separates itself from the pack is with its flawless animation work and AI.
Like, i just watched the Tomb Raider footage and, no disrespect to TR, but thats a night and day difference.
 

JK-Money

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,558
That would be some truly shit writing. It would undermine much of what made Marlene's character work.

I don't trust much, but I trust them to be better than that.
Im just trying to think how they can pull off the mother "twist" just because the enemies she is fighting in the paris games trailer are the exact same Ellie are fighting. I wouls find it weird that we never heard of these religious cultish people in the first game. I hope they do flashbacks much like godfather bur I wonder if both are present time. Also the "beginning" of the game theres a 4 year lapse of time, in gameplay its now year 5. I know that TLOU had some time skip but and entire year im not sure. Maybe there is a raid and Ellie ends up severly hurt or in a slight coma and wakes up and realised what has transpired.
 
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SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,839
I love it when ND releases new gameplay... everything there is this group of people (including ubi execs apparently lol) who forget the reasons we call them naughty gods.

Their animation is peerless in the industry. People pulled this same garbage narrative out when the first game dropped and it turned out more engaging, beautiful and dynamic than anyone could have guessed. This game is gonna run laps around garbage like AC without breaking a sweat.

Oh yah and then there's the story and the characters and the world and relationships that you actually might give a shit about.

Can't wait for the murder of crow to be served when this game drops.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,389
the Netherlands
After catching up on most of the E3 footage of other games it just biggles my mind how far ahead of everyone else ND are with this.
Sure there are games like Death Stranding, Ghost Of Tsushima and others with incredible visuals(even though I'd argue that TLoU looks quite a bit better than them as well), but were this game separates itself from the pack is with its flawless animation work and AI.
Like, i just watched the Tomb Raider footage and, no disrespect to TR, but thats a night and day difference.
ND are just in a class of their own. It's still very far away, but whatever they're gonna do on PS5 is gonna be batshit insane.
 

nycgamer4ever

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
861
Thing is you have no way to prove whether it was real or fake. Those demos where only shown in the conference. There wasn't even a playable demo for the press. They could have been fake.

Also, we shouldn't be just ok with publisher showing spruced up versions of the game. Or showing content that does not exist in the final game. The fact that many companies do this does not justify it. It is a horrible trend and it sucks that it's normalized.

Why does it suck? How does it effect your enjoyment of the final game. Both GOW and TLOU are great games regardless of a couple of things not being in the final game. Making a big deal out of nothing. IT's not like they don't have someone playing the demo and it's just some prerecorded rendered scene or something.
 

Dussck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
The Netherlands
So if we played this very demo we could basically save the hanged dude, right? That alone makes me think this is not going to be in the game 1 to 1. The area probably is, but maybe without the hanging (that animation will be moved to another part of the game where you can't intervene).
 

Falchion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,161
Boise
From what we've seen, I'm actually going to want to have multiple playthroughs because there's so many ways to approach each section that it could continue to feel fresh.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,106
Plot twist:
Ellie is Joel's daughter,he had a night with Ellie's mom 19 years ago and don't remember.
 

Deleted member 43446

User requested account closure
Banned
May 15, 2018
748
What if Marlene lied and instead took the baby away. Trying to kill Ellies mom and not succeeding she comes back looking for revenge, the hate theme can run simultaneously with Ellie getting revenge on whoever and her mother as well until inevitably....they meet
Marlene wasn't a bad guy and she had no reason to take Ellie away from her mother, no one knew about Ellie being immune until she got bit. I know they could come up with some plot about her mom being immune and Marlene knowing about it but that is just lazy writing.
 

Wakka212

Member
Oct 30, 2017
337
So if we played this very demo we could basically save the hanged dude, right? That alone makes me think this is not going to be in the game 1 to 1. The area probably is, but maybe without the hanging (that animation will be moved to another part of the game where you can't intervene).

I don't think they confirmed that part, but I would imagine if you stopped that in this particular demo you would break it. They did mention that you could take different paths through this level though, like all of the combat could likely be avoided, Ellie didn't need to get caught where she did, and she didn't have to run into that store after getting hurt.

I REALLY wish they showed an alternate playthrough of this demo - i desperately want to see how their dynamic animation systems work in different scenarios.