Vote for your favourite moment of Season 2!

  • Din and Cobb Vanth take on the Krayt Dragon

    Votes: 61 5.5%
  • Din, Bo-Katan and her Mando allies storm the Imperial freighter

    Votes: 37 3.3%
  • Ahsoka reveals the child's name and the mystery of the Force to Din

    Votes: 119 10.7%
  • Boba Fett reacquires his armour

    Votes: 89 8.0%
  • Mayfeld snaps and kills his old commander, Valin Hess

    Votes: 234 21.0%
  • Slave 1 drops a seismic charge

    Votes: 52 4.7%
  • Luke Skywalker comes to the rescue

    Votes: 521 46.8%

  • Total voters
    1,113

CesareNorrez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,597
One part that really annoys me is when they talk about the reason for Luke's all black outfit in ROTJ, and how it wouldn't make sense for him now, but they decided to use it anyway, because that's how people remember him. What a dumb decision. Just keep him frozen in time. 🙄

It makes sense to me. They only had Luke making a short appearance here. Part of the surprise is that you are seeing a character you recognize by his costume. But at the same time you are disbelief that it is him. You haven't seen his face, but everything else is telling you this is Luke. So when he fully reveals himself, you aren't totally surprised but still kind of are. And then you feel a little silly for ever doubting it was Luke, everything prior was really shouting it. And this is accomplished by having him wear such a recognizable costume. It's not about freezing him in time, it's about pulling specific emotions out of the audience. And in a story that deals with archetypes, images that are easily recognizable are important. The literal logic is not always relevant. Symbolism and allegory are stirred up with the literal in the fairytale universe life Star Wars. The feel of thing should override the think of it.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,434
One part that really annoys me is when they talk about the reason for Luke's all black outfit in ROTJ, and how it wouldn't make sense for him now, but they decided to use it anyway, because that's how people remember him. What a dumb decision. Just keep him frozen in time. 🙄

"starships are cold" would've been good enough for me,

Piloting an X-wing in those robes must be shitty though.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,632
It was great to finally get clarification about what specific techniques they used to de-age Luke.

It was interesting to hear how ILM have dabbled with deepfake technology, and their recent hiring of Shamook makes more sense now. ILM's access to official 4K archive material also obviously differentiates them from the average YouTuber and keeps them on good legal ground.

What was immediately striking to me is how fantastic and full of life their internal deepfake experiments were - to my eye, they looked a lot more convincing than the traditional Marvel method they ultimately settled on.

The whole episode, with its musings on the ethical implications of deepfake technology, seemed to me to be ILM assuring us that while they are fully aware of the moral grey area of AI technology, they will nonetheless be going full steam ahead with it in the future. The confirmation that they used AI to synthesize Luke's young voice was quite profound - surely this is the first high profile instance of this tech being used in mainstream media.

Season 3 of The Mandalorian could legitimately require no input from Mark Hamill. They could do Luke Skywalker stories until the end of time.

That was the most interesting part to me. The voice AI that's never talked about is very interesting because that was convincing as hell unlike the face. Favreau mentioned what most of us already think will happen. In a few years time it'll be indistinguishable to tell Deepfake faces and voices from the real ones.

I actually wonder if they'll fix Luke's face in Mando once Deepfake is to the level they deem worthy.

We then get into the question of ethics and legality. As you mentioned they could tell Luke's story until the end of time. We could get Young Leia stories. Han Solo. Marvel could have RDJ's IronMan and Evans' Cap forever. WB could revive Bale's Batman and Reeves' Superman. We know the company owns the likeness for those actors when representing the character. Do the actors get paid whenever they are used or just for the work they put in? If Marvel creates Ironman 4 using a stunt double actor and Deepfake face/voice does RDJ get paid? In the future these companies will probably only require some stunt double actor since their voice and face will be replaced by Deepfake. Another thing is we'll probably need blockchain to keep track of changes for all these videos since the fakes will be so convincing like Favreau mentioned. We need to know and have a way to verify what is and isn't real.

Obviously a much bigger discussion than intended here, but something that came to mind as I was watching that.
 

egg

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,799
I wonder if they ever considered hiring look alikes vs using deep fake tech. With the right make up Sebastian Stan & Millie Bobby Brown would physically look the part for a young Luke and Leia and I wouldn't even mind Alden Ehrenreich again either.

I mean of course some want them to move away from those characters but with Mando 3, Lando, and Ahsoka coming up I find it hard to believe that we won't see them again.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,890
That was the most interesting part to me. The voice AI that's never talked about is very interesting because that was convincing as hell unlike the face. Favreau mentioned what most of us already think will happen. In a few years time it'll be indistinguishable to tell Deepfake faces and voices from the real ones.

I actually wonder if they'll fix Luke's face in Mando once Deepfake is to the level they deem worthy.



We then get into the question of ethics and legality. As you mentioned they could tell Luke's story until the end of time. We could get Young Leia stories. Han Solo. Marvel could have RDJ's IronMan and Evans' Cap forever. WB could revive Bale's Batman and Reeves' Superman. We know the company owns the likeness for those actors when representing the character. Do the actors get paid whenever they are used or just for the work they put in? If Marvel creates Ironman 4 using a stunt double actor and Deepfake face/voice does RDJ get paid? In the future these companies will probably only require some stunt double actor since their voice and face will be replaced by Deepfake. Another thing is we'll probably need blockchain to keep track of changes for all these videos since the fakes will be so convincing like Favreau mentioned. We need to know and have a way to verify what is and isn't real.

Obviously a much bigger discussion than intended here, but something that came to mind as I was watching that.

I thought exactly the same thing re: actors getting compensated. Surely in the future there will be something in an actor's contract that stipulates that they or their estate will receive payment if their likeness is used.

It's interesting that they didn't deem the deepfake experiments worthy when they were plainly better than the final result we got. Just look at 2:40 in this video (I apologise if this is a toxic YouTuber, I have no idea who they are and just found the video). With a bit of clean up, that looks like RotJ-era Luke Skywalker. It looks like a human face:



Frankly, I think they probably landed on using the traditional Marvel-style de-ageing tech to flatter Hamill and make him feel included in the project. It perhaps also would have been morally wrong to bypass him in favour of an AI recreation when he is alive and potentially available, plus Hamill's physical presence on set adds some gravitas to the whole event. But if he consents to it, I could see the deepfake version taking over in the future.

The Marvel tech definitely still has its place, especially when a character is front and centre in a story and a lot of emoting is required (see: SLJ in Captain Marvel). But sadly it's not very effective with Hamill because, respectfully, he has not aged quite as gracefully as some other actors. He looks quite different to his 1983 self, especially when he is a bit heavier. On the other hand, I think Harrison Ford could be de-aged quite convincingly with the Marvel tech because he looks pretty similar to his younger self (and I'm hoping to see this in the next Indy film).