Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,473
Will they? At some point Xbox continuing to lose marketshare while Playstation continues to gain marketshare will have MS investors screaming even more than they already do to get rid of Xbox, and if they get loud enough Satya and the board will have to listen

Than they already do? This thread is about the company trying to complete it's single biggest and most expensive acquisition in Microsoft's history. That is on top of the billions they already spent since 2018 on Zenimax and other studios. All of that, being invested into their Xbox business.
 

DrFreeman

Member
May 9, 2020
2,746
Some of y'all really seem to get pleasure from Microsoft's actions, huh.

Sony fucked around and found out with one of the top 3 largest corporations in the world. I'm not sure what the hell they expected to happen.
What exactly is the fuck around that Sony did?

Isn't Microsoft the one fucking around by trying to buy a major publisher and finding out that, nope, regulators don't like that?
 

Clippy

Member
Feb 11, 2022
2,231
executed copies of every content licensing agreement SIE has entered into with any third-party publisher over the past 11 years
This should be very illuminating, but it's understandable that Sony wants this to remain in a black box. If I was out there claiming that one game's potential exclusivity could destroy my company and asking regulators to intervene, and had some awkward facts my business dealing, I'd want them to be deemed irrelevant as well.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,360
What exactly is the fuck around that Sony did?

Isn't Microsoft the one fucking around by trying to buy a major publisher and finding out that, nope, regulators don't like that?
Making claims that they wouldn't be able to compete without CoD. Now Microsoft is asking for receipts via the courts. Pretty straightforward.
 

chen17

Member
Oct 5, 2022
273
Can we get this thread back on track and stop talking about the past console market and fantasizing about a future console market without Xbox
 

Dingo

Member
Jul 19, 2022
788
If the Ec and CMA lines of thinking should align according to that report in December then microsoft should have a little insight into the CMA's line of thinking from the EC's objections from Tuesday.

I think I'm reading that right anyway.

I don't think it's a block but there may be some strange asks from the cma.
 

stormfire

Member
Nov 26, 2018
2,893
Sony fucked around and found out with one of the top 3 largest corporations in the world. I'm not sure what the hell they expected to happen.
It goes way back. To be honest...in any industry, it can be very intimidating when a bigger and powerful company is plotting your downfall.
www.polygon.com

Microsoft entered the console business to stop Sony, former VP says

Microsoft entered the console business primarily "to stop Sony," Joachim Kempin, former vice president of Windows Sales at Microsoft told IGN. "Sony was always very arm's length with Microsoft,"...
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
I feel more and more that consoles as we know them shouldn't exist. Hardware, storefronts and software development should be separated the same way movie production, distribution and exhibition were in the US vs Paramount decision in 1948. Though that rule is being sanded away as we speak.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,879
It goes way back. To be honest...in any industry, it can be very intimidating when a bigger and powerful company is plotting your downfall.
www.polygon.com

Microsoft entered the console business to stop Sony, former VP says

Microsoft entered the console business primarily "to stop Sony," Joachim Kempin, former vice president of Windows Sales at Microsoft told IGN. "Sony was always very arm's length with Microsoft,"...
This has zero bearing on the situation today. Sony have been in complete control for a long time.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,360
It goes way back. To be honest...in any industry, it can be very intimidating when a bigger and powerful company is plotting your downfall.
www.polygon.com

Microsoft entered the console business to stop Sony, former VP says

Microsoft entered the console business primarily "to stop Sony," Joachim Kempin, former vice president of Windows Sales at Microsoft told IGN. "Sony was always very arm's length with Microsoft,"...
What does this have to do with the ABK acquisition?
 
Jun 15, 2020
7,140
Isn't their ultimate goal with gamepass and xcloud to leave the dedicated hardware business?
No, and people really need to stop saying this. They can do more than one thing at once.

They can sell consoles AND do the cloud.
They can sell Gamepass subs AND still sell games.

For some weird reason, everyone wants to pretend just because Xbox is doing something new, it means they're completely abandoning the old thing.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,937
If the Ec and CMA lines of thinking should align according to that report in December then microsoft should have a little insight into the CMA's line of thinking from the EC's objections from Tuesday.

I think I'm reading that right anyway.

I don't think it's a block but there may be some strange asks from the cma.
I think so too.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,937
This should be very illuminating, but it's understandable that Sony wants this to remain in a black box. If I was out there claiming that one game's potential exclusivity could destroy my company and asking regulators to intervene, and had some awkward facts my business dealing, I'd want them to be deemed irrelevant as well.
Oh wow.. I didn't see this. Does this include all published titles including money hats and full on documention, clauses..etc regarding all information on these deals? Spicy.
 

Clippy

Member
Feb 11, 2022
2,231
Oh wow.. I didn't see this. Does this include all published titles including money hats and full on documention, clauses..etc regarding all information on these deals? Spicy.
It wouldn't definitely include that, and the actual details on the alleged blocking of games coming to Game Pass, rather than the mere speculation we've been having. Everyone should welcome it.
 

Firmus_Anguis

AVALANCHE
Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,230
Would it really be catastrophic? Industry seemed to be doing fine before Xbox and all the studios would find new buyers easily.

Eh.... at worst I could see Sony being more greedy since they'd lack a direct competitor but... it's not like that's not an issue already with their pricing strategies.
It would be catastrophic.

If you think Sony is bad now, they'd be way worse without Microsoft. I love Sony's games, they are absolutely amazing, but I want healthy competition. MS just needs to get their shit together and I don't think this deal is essential for that.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,842
Those MS requests are out of line.

Sony won't provide anything until a judge determines any of those requests are at all relevant.

They apparently have started providing some documents in parallel to negotiations around the rest as a show of 'good faith'. Some of it does seem excessive though. If they're talking about individual user details that seems a bit much. Aggregate data would presumably suffice. However they elsewhere say that negotiations with MS have been making progress and they think issues will be resolved given more time, so we'll see one way or another what ends up in dispute.
 

pappacone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
3,250
despite of what most people here said in the past months, Sony and Nintendo aren't really competitors, so Xbox going out of businness would be a big problem (I would argue that even Nintendo being the only true handled/hybrid option is a problem)

That being said I don't get why we are even talking about this scenario
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
8,020
This thread really needs some news.
Well I find the Microsoft leaving console space not only be a huge de-rail but also in bad faith..

Like they just bought Bethesda? If in the scenario they cannot buy Activision I think they don't leave but double down just to 'safe face'

It's super obvious why the de-rail happens and it is annoying and takes away from actual good posts like Idas
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,587
If they can spend 70 billion dollars on Activision, they sure as hell can spend that amount on their own 1st party.

The amount of shit they could create with that money is just... Insane. But that process takes time and MS knows this.

That's why they're partially out to get guaranteed hits such as CoD. It'd be their Game Pass killerapp (but this isn't the only reason).

In the end, all you really need is one really great game to move the needle. MS proved that with Gears of War and basically the entire 360 generation (I'm not saying they didn't have more to to offer because of course they did, but Gears defined their success).

The Series X is an amazing console. They don't need CoD to succeed, they just need to start pumping out more 1st party titles and not rush things and good things will come. High-Fi Rush was a pleasant surprise, now imagine The Evil Within 3 or brand new IP's...!

As much as I've been against this deal, neither me nor anyone else want MS to shut anything down - That would be catastrophic for the industry.

The $70 billion they are spending one ABK is spending towards their own first party.

Aside from an acquisition, how will $70 billion allow them to start "pumping out more 1st party titles"? Are they just going to drop $ into the laps of their existing studios and games will just come out faster and in better shape? Are they going to scalp tons of talent from external studios and build new XGS studios from scratch who will all be instant contenders in the AAA market? Are they going to pay a bunch of external studios to bring games to Xbox and skip other platforms?

Money doesn't create games, people do.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,806
The Milky Way
Well I find the Microsoft leaving console space not only be a huge de-rail but also in bad faith..

Like they just bought Bethesda? If in the scenario they cannot buy Activision I think they don't leave but double down just to 'safe face'

It's super obvious why the de-rail happens and it is annoying and takes away from actual good posts like Idas
Still makes no sense that MS would ditch their console business based on a deal falling through that is primarily aimed at their mobile and PC expansion plans.
 

Firmus_Anguis

AVALANCHE
Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,230
The $70 billion they are spending one ABK is spending towards their own first party.

Aside from an acquisition, how will $70 billion allow them to start "pumping out more 1st party titles"? Are they just going to drop $ into the laps of their existing studios and games will just come out faster and in better shape? Are they going to scalp tons of talent from external studios and build new XGS studios from scratch who will all be instant contenders in the AAA market? Are they going to pay a bunch of external studios to bring games to Xbox and skip other platforms?

Money doesn't create games, people do.
Yes and no.

Money spent wisely and talanted people create great games. Sony not only spend a ton of money on their 1st party titles, they take their time and trust the process. I didn't mean to imply that money solves everything, but you can do a f*ckton of stuff with 70 goddamn billion dollars... Buying an established developer with guaranteed hits such as CoD is definitely one approach. MS's management sucks though and needs to improve.

It can't be understated how influential Mark Cerny was to Sony's success and hiring the right people and also shifting the focus to game quality. Naughty Dog was a 3 person team when they bought them... Insomniac were only a 2 people team when they invested in them.

This is a fantastic speech on their approach to making games, if you ever find the time.


View: https://youtu.be/xHXrBnipHyA

From the Halo Infinite stories I've been reading on here, MS doesn't quite have the same approach.

If I were MS, I'd be on Asobo's ass 24/7. Now that would be a wise investment, eventhough I know they said they wanted to remain independent. It'd be way cheaper and they have the talent to become one of MS's leading developer's etc. So spending some of that 70 billion on buying and expanding Asobo is an example of what I'd like to see them do.
 

KRT

Member
Aug 7, 2020
207
For those wondering how a PlayStation without Xbox would act then please try to remember Sony from the early PS3 days. Believing that PlayStation would not change for the worse if Xbox went away. Is like believing in Santa Claus when you're a grown ass adult.

Again I see no world where Xbox is shut down or spun off. Even if this deal doesn't go through. Will that 70 bill be spent in games probably not. I do see ms halting their acquisition spree at least until they know how the economy will be this year.
I mean, we can kinda see it happening now albeit slowly. Arogant Sony is kind of back and is far from being like the Sony we had at the end of PS3/throughout ps4 era. Their success with PS4 and hype/success of PS5 is getting into their heads + lack of Xbox output of quality AAA games is not helpign that (although this hopefully will change within a year or two).
 

Re-Tails

Member
Aug 16, 2020
248
Meta-Within order got unsealed

Thread:

View: https://twitter.com/macton93/status/1621699666416128001


View: https://twitter.com/MActon93/status/1621703368203976704

Coverage:
www.reuters.com

U.S. judge denies FTC request to stop Meta from acquiring VR firm Within

A judge on Friday released a ruling denying the Federal Trade Commission's request to stop Meta Platforms Inc from buying virtual reality content maker Within Unlimited, rejecting the regulator's concerns the deal would reduce competition in a new market.

"Though Meta boasts considerable financial and VR engineering resources, it did not possess the capabilities unique to VR dedicated fitness apps, specifically fitness content creation and studio production facilities," the judge wrote.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,804
Yes and no.

Money spent wisely and talanted people create great games. Sony not only spend a ton of money on their 1st party titles, they take their time and trust the process. I didn't mean to imply that money solves everything, but you can do a f*ckton of stuff with 70 goddamn billion dollars... Buying an established developer with guaranteed hits such as CoD is definitely one approach. MS's management sucks though and needs to improve.

It can't be understated how influential Mark Cerny was to Sony's success and hiring the right people and also shifting the focus to game quality. Naughty Dog was a 3 person team when they bought them... Insomniac were only a 2 people team when they invested in them.

This is a fantastic speech on their approach to making games, if you ever find the time.


View: https://youtu.be/xHXrBnipHyA

From the Halo Infinite stories I've been reading on here, MS doesn't quite have the same approach.

If I were MS, I'd be on Asobo's ass 24/7. Now that would be a wise investment, eventhough I know they said they wanted to remain independent. It'd be way cheaper and they have the talent to become one of MS's leading developer's etc. So spending some of that 70 billion on buying and expanding Asobo is an example of what I'd like to see them do.


They need a shortcut to success. Asobo and/or establishing new studios won't do that for them. Unless the goal is to compete by 2035. In acquiring ABK, they are getting some of the most popular established IPs in gaming on GPU day 1 and a ton of talented developers. The cost of acquiring ABK is high but the financial risk is mitigated but their IP portfolio and talent. In such discussions we often tend to ignore brand recognition/loyalty. The MMO landscape is filled with hundreds, if not thousands of dead games, but WoW is still going strong. Same with Diablo in the looter hack and slash genre. We all know COD and King has been one of the best acquisitions in gaming over the last decade.
 
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Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,587
Yes and no.

Money spent wisely and talanted people create great games. Sony not only spend a ton of money on their 1st party titles, they take their time and trust the process. I didn't mean to imply that money solves everything, but you can do a f*ckton of stuff with 70 goddamn billion dollars... Buying an established developer with guaranteed hits such as CoD is definitely one approach. MS's management sucks though and needs to improve.

It can't be understated how influential Mark Cerny was to Sony's success and hiring the right people and also shifting the focus to game quality. Naughty Dog was a 3 person team when they bought them... Insomniac were only a 2 people team when they invested in them.

This is a fantastic speech on their approach to making games, if you ever find the time.


View: https://youtu.be/xHXrBnipHyA

From the Halo Infinite stories I've been reading on here, MS doesn't quite have the same approach.

If I were MS, I'd be on Asobo's ass 24/7. Now that would be a wise investment, eventhough I know they said they wanted to remain independent. It'd be way cheaper and they have the talent to become one of MS's leading developer's etc. So spending some of that 70 billion on buying and expanding Asobo is an example of what I'd like to see them do.


People create games. Money is how they are compensated for their work. It's easy to say "oh, just spend the money more wisely", but hindsight is 20/20.

I'm sure building 343 and loading them with industry veterans responsible for some of the best shooters and games in the market seemed like a great way to spend money and capitalize on one of gamings most valuable IPs. It ultimately didn't work out because they never had the right leadership in place. But if you compare that outcome to Turn10 and Rare and it's a completely different story. Even Sony , with all their success, has had Studios that didn't pan out.

At the end of the day, that $70 billion, would need to be used to compensate talented people for making games w/ the hope that those games are highly desired by the market. Whether or not the right people are in the right place at the right time is something only time can tell. Whether they are buying 1 ABK or buying a bunch of Asobo's or expanding their existing studios with that $70B- it's all a means to the same end.

Buying several studios that are already reliable hit-markers, are already profitable, filled with industry leading talent and come equipped with valuable IP is likely a wise way to spend money.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Still makes no sense that MS would ditch their console business based on a deal falling through that is primarily aimed at their mobile and PC expansion plans.
And one they they were never strategically planning, and simply took advantage of the situation where they were looking to sell.
 

POKEYCLYDE

Member
Dec 10, 2022
130
Not saying I disagree but Apple is in a much better place than they were then. I could see a M powered console outclassing whatever Sony and AMD could come up with, and they have infinitely more brand power, like orders of magnitude more. Plus they would still sell this shit for like the price of a MacBook Air and it would compete depending on how it was marketed. Apple could with a killer app, it's more they just don't give a fuck and wouldn't. The Mac could be a decent gaming computer but again, they don't give a fuck beyond App integration.
There's no way. Apple would fail at the console business. It doesn't take 1 killer app, not in the games industry. When you're entrenched in your console of choice, it takes more than 1 game to consider investing into a new console.

Not only that, but if Apple were to employ their overall pricing strategy on a console, they'd be laughed out of the building. $2K for a console. You want your console to be wired by ethernet? This dongle is only $120. Controller, that'll be $300. And no we don't have wired headsets, you'll need airpods if you want to mic up. Then they'll release a new console every 2 years and the old one will be worthless. All that for 1 killer app? There are Xbox players that won't multi-home a Playstation even with all their killer games. Apple would have to have Jesus Christ reincarnated in video game form to have any shot at success if they treated their console like every other part of their business.

Edit: Sorry for the off topic. I'll get back on topic.
 
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Firmus_Anguis

AVALANCHE
Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,230
Buying several studio that are already reliable hit-markers, are already profitable, and come equipped with valuable IP is likely a wise way to spend money.
I mean, it's arguably what they need, a sort of in-house blueprint to success.

It's taken Sony decades to get this right, it's by no means easy and it's not something you can necessarily throw money at to solve... But it's still 70 billion dollars...

Buying publishers to accommodate for your failures is just something I never want to see in the industry.

Would I try out CoD on Game Pass? Sure. I still don't want to see healthy and thriving 3rd party publisher's being swallowed up by an even bigger publisher. It's always felt lazy to me, especially when I know MS actually can spend money wisely and can compete (again, the 360 generation is the perfect example).

We can disagree on the approach MS is taking, that is fine. But no one in their right mind would want Xbox to fail - I certainly don't.
 

DrFreeman

Member
May 9, 2020
2,746
Some of y'all seem to really get pleasure in trashing Microsoft's actions, huh.
That doesn't make sense lol

It goes way back. To be honest...in any industry, it can be very intimidating when a bigger and powerful company is plotting your downfall.
www.polygon.com

Microsoft entered the console business to stop Sony, former VP says

Microsoft entered the console business primarily "to stop Sony," Joachim Kempin, former vice president of Windows Sales at Microsoft told IGN. "Sony was always very arm's length with Microsoft,"...

Wow. Microsoft in the 1990s really were like "only we can have a monopoly".

According to Kempin, Microsoft wanted to ensure that Sony didn't achieve the kind of dominance in the living room that Microsoft did in the PC sphere.
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
8,020
Still makes no sense that MS would ditch their console business based on a deal falling through that is primarily aimed at their mobile and PC expansion plans.
Yeah that's what I am saying. It just makes 0 sense for them to leaving gaming at this point in time

Hope mods step in.. I'm gonna give this thread a rest for a few days because it doesn't look like it will get back on track by itself
 

bitcloudrzr

Banned
May 31, 2018
14,468
Zentradi foot soldier
hqdefault.jpg
 

Mau

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,913
Folks here really think MS will pull out of the industry if the ABK deal doesn't go through? lmao
 

In Amber Clad

rather sultry
Moderator
Aug 26, 2018
5,529
London
Let's drop the extensive derail about Microsoft leaving the games industry, please.

That I have to step in twice in two days to ask people to stop derailing isn't great. You all know what this thread is for, and you all know what this thread is *not* for. Don't derail it. If there is nothing relevant - no new updates, etc - then don't spin up a barely-related side-discussion. Just don't post.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
It's taken Sony decades to get this right, it's by no means easy and it's not something you can necessarily throw money at to solve... But it's still 70 billion dollars...
This is EXACTLY the tension. People forget this whenever we have this conversation. It takes TIME. Time is not free, and money can't buy time. 70 billion dollars "invested on first party, but not invested THAT way" neither guarantees success nor delivers it tomorrow. In fact, by definition, it would take many, many years. Well, that's great! Why can't MS just wait?! Well because by that point all the other competitors have entrenched even more, further solidified their advantages, and are in an even better position to prevent MS from succeeding let alone beating them.

Let's also look at the other side with the thing I often remind people of in this thread: BUYING STUDIOS IS NOT A SHORTCUT. It is NOT a cheat code. Acquiring Obsidian did not make Xbox stop investing in their first party. It made them INCREASE their investment in 1st party. And no, I'm not talking about the purchase price. I'm talking about the hiring that Obsidian has done (and yes, layoffs, but XGS overall is still WAY up, probably even just from the start of 2021), the money spent on new offices, new teams, new equipment, marketing, consultants. This IS Xbox investing in first party. The acquisitions are one part of it. Xbox is doing EXACTLY what you want them to, and one part of that is having the teams, infrastructure, and experience/culture to be able to handle that investment influx. That's what all of this is for.

Acquisitions also don't always work out because they're inherently risky. Ask Sony, Microsoft, or any number of publishers in the industry whether acquisitions always succeed. The reason other people don't make mega-acquisitions is because they are HARD to do. ABK is not likely to will not make Xbox the #1 brand or platform, and ABK has a high chance of failure. It's a move of desperation, yes! People say that like it should disqualify Xbox from doing it.. no no, that is the point! MS is willing to take on this increased risk because they know they need to make big moves to stay in the game. No, they're not pulling out of gaming if this deal fails. But they also know that if the status quo continues, their situation will only get worse and worse (barring something catastrophic happening to other competitors, which would probably hurt the entire industry).
 
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Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,804
I mean, it's arguably what they need, a sort of in-house blueprint to success.

It's taken Sony decades to get this right, it's by no means easy and it's not something you can necessarily throw money at to solve... But it's still 70 billion dollars...

Buying publishers to accommodate for your failures is just something I never want to see in the industry.

Would I try out CoD on Game Pass? Sure. I still don't want to see healthy and thriving 3rd party publisher's being swallowed up by an even bigger publisher. It's always felt lazy to me, especially when I know MS actually can spend money wisely and can compete (again, the 360 generation is the perfect example).

We can disagree on the approach MS is taking, that is fine. But no one in their right mind would want Xbox to fail - I certainly don't.

Isn't that the point of acquiring anything? It fulfills a need or an area of weakness. In turn it presents an opportunity for growth.