Thank you! I'm glad someone is appreciating the effort.Your posts in this thread have been insightful and right on the money. Thanks for doing the thankless task of educating people on good storytelling versus empty flash!
Thank you! I'm glad someone is appreciating the effort.Your posts in this thread have been insightful and right on the money. Thanks for doing the thankless task of educating people on good storytelling versus empty flash!
Uh really? He sliced your legs, burned your body and took your kids and this is what you have to say Anakin?!
Nah, he's kind of right. Not about your friends, but viewing order. It's like watching The Hobbit trilogy before Lord of the Rings, except far worse.
RotS is a bigger movie stuffed with more things and flashier higher budget scenes.I'd rather watch the prequels, personally. ROTS is absolutely a better movie than Rogue One.
Nah, he's kind of right. Not about your friends, but viewing order. It's like watching The Hobbit trilogy before Lord of the Rings, except far worse.
No he's not. He caught a warning for calling people shitheads over not following the order he agreed with.Nah, he's kind of right. Not about your friends, but viewing order. It's like watching The Hobbit trilogy before Lord of the Rings, except far worse.
What do you define as good saber combat if you think the prequels are actually above the OT in this regard?OT Stans in here really trying to say with a straight face that the lightsaber Combat in the OT is good and not just blind nostalgia?
Prequel fights were bad, the OT is simply atrocious.
I will add that I really wish we got more stuff like this in the OT:
The absolute terror that you feel in the scene is unmatched.
Expecting a dog-pile for this post lol
He doesn't say that, though. He says "more powerful than you could possibly imagine", because Anakin Skywalker incorrectly believes that the dark side is stronger. He realizes that the light triumphs over dark by the end of ROTJ and uses it to save his son and redeem himself.Well, the line "more powerful than ever" is not exactly false. A few Jedi (Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan, Yoda and later Anakin) learned the ability to maintain their conciousness beyond death in order to speak or even to project an image in the physical plane (explained in The Clone Wars animated series)--hence he could be anywhere in the galaxy. Yoda does the same thing in ROTJ.
Not sure how that is true at all.
The phantom menace-fight ends after obiwan chops maul in half.
Count Dooku vs obiwan and anakin-Dooku's main goal wasn't to fight or kill them, he put the rock down and had to leave after fighting yoda.
Anakin kills dooku
Obiwan kills Greivous
Yoda falls down and by the time he could get back up, he would be surrounded by clones.
Obiwan all but kills anakin.
He doesn't say that, though. He says "more powerful than you could possibly imagine", because Anakin Skywalker incorrectly believes that the dark side is stronger. He realizes that the light triumphs over dark by the end of ROTJ and uses it to save his son and redeem himself.
Can you explain why?I think this might be my most hated star wars scene. Even worse than the romance shit in AotC
Right, he wasn't Anakin at that time. That's an interpretation you could have with the broader context of the rest of the OT. However, his message is all the same, that good triumphs over evil, and that he's only a master of evil (that evil is stunted in comparison to the light side) Obi knew that his selfless sacrifice would make him powerful as he is able to guide Luke on his journey. Vader incorrectly believed he had now surpassed his master because of his commitment to the dark side but was mistaken.Except not, because Vader wasn't Anakin when Lucas wrote those words or shot that scene. It's literally just an old knight bantering with what was at the time just the biggest enforcer thug of the Empire about their history together. A lot of Lucas' ideas about the world of Star Wars changed between Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. The fight in Star Wars feels strange because it is strange, and doesn't function by the same rules as the sequels would, but it still works because the point is the characters confronting one another about a past we have only heard about from one side, and Obi-Wan's "more powerful" line is a setup for his life-after-death schtick which is the most concrete proof the film gives us that the Force really is everything Obi-Wan has told Luke it is.
Yep, I got a warning and I apologised to Ishida for going in far too strong on his friends for watching a series of films in a particular order. Done and dusted, let's move on.
Can you explain why?
I'm aware most of the hate comes from the scene existing at all but I don't think there's anything wrong with the scene on its own.
Well yeah it's pure fan service but I think its one of the best examples of menacing Vader can be, as well as simple lightsaber choreography that isn't overly CGI'd like the prequels. People will always root for Vader because they know his history and love the character. He could murder a whole room of childr.... oh wait.You got it, its very inclusion that adds absolutely nothing to the story. People were rooting for Vader here and I just find that really stupid considering this scene plays out immediately after the heroes die.
You lost me here.
Cheers dude, and as you say enjoying the films however we like is the main thing.Apology accepted, friend. :)
We are all Star Wars fans here, even if our points of view are different, we all have our ways to enjoy this series.
Well yeah it's pure fan service but I think its one of the best examples of menacing Vader can be. People will always root for Vader because they know his history and love the character. He could murder a whole room of childr.... oh wait.
The same colour light sabres kills it for me, you can never see what is going on
They are both blue in episode 3
You've gotta remember, it's 2 old men fighting at that point. Don't expect some Yoda flips.
Exactly.Haha, I thought the OP was being sarcastic.
Its a 40 year old indy movie, what kind of action were you expecting.
Obi Wan clumsily spinning at 3FPS aside, the scene works because it introduces the concept of pacifism as the superior method to Star Wars which Luke finally learned in Jedi and tried to teach Rey in TLJ
Yeah its fucking terrible and the lengths people go to defend it cracks me up. I think the last one I heard was that lightsabers are so powerful you cant actually do anything but the most simple movements. Fucking lol
And the lengths people like this will go to ignore valid points is hilarious and embarrassing lol. At this point it's been repeated ad nausea why people think something like the Obi-Vader fight is better.The lengths people go to defend A New Hope's shitty fight is crazy
It's more about how the fights going from episode 4 onwards have actual emotional impact and meaning for the characters. Like how in RoTJ Luke loses his control and is just beating Vader Down in rage. You don't really get that type of emotion from the prequels, and it's less to do with the speed, and more to do with the style of choreography.lol on point. I get the hate for the prequels. But for the most part combats are 10x better. I guess same people must love the slow/heavy movements of Kylo Ren
Sure if all you care about in a movie is flashy visuals.It's a joke. Had my friends laughing at the old man movements, like he's in serious hip pain.
Truthfully, ep4 is seen as one of the worst by new SW watchers in my experience. I find it to be a slog too, I have no nostalgia to elevate it.
I'm definitely curious how this can be the case when all of them resulted in more character development compared to any of the prequels.
I always wish they'd given Anakin a different colored lightsaber for that fight, just for contrast. I know that doesnt make sense story wise but visually it would be much better.
I never bought that excuse, the Emperor could have given him one when he was born as Vader when he set off order 66I always wish they'd given Anakin a different colored lightsaber for that fight, just for contrast. I know that doesnt make sense story wise but visually it would be much better.
Pfft, it's better the way it is. I can giggle at Obi giving Luke the lightsaber his father used to chop up some children. Not just children, but the women and the men too.I never bought that excuse, the Emperor could have given him one when he was born as Vader when he set off order 66
There is the deleted part of the prequel fight scene that shows a bit more about this actually.
What Anakin turns into by the end of the prequel is sort of complex, there is no saving him, there is nothing to redeem. Of course Luke proves Obi-wan wrong about that, and is why the story as a whole 6 movies actually works, (although the 3 prequels should just be a single movie). Anyways, in this context, their fight makes more sense, but you have to understand that when they made this movie, they didn't have CG to make everyone look like Spider-man, so they went with a more traditional knights/samurais fighting to the death, it works and was a lesson for Luke at the time. That's Luke's father, Obi-wan wanted to make sure that Luke didn't join him, and having Vader kill Obi-wan, was a seal on that fate. It's actually fairly good writing, and I'm not even a Starwars fan.
The scene is perfectly fine, with the exception of Obi-Wan's super slow "please backstab me" spin. Spins in general are pointless with lightsabers; they don't have weight, you don't gain any angular momentum!
This post reminds of how a small pet peeve of mine is when people joke about stormtroops having poor aim based on A New Hope. In the opening scene, the stormtroops annihilate the Rebels; the only man they lose is the first one through the door, which makes sense. Later, Obi-Wan correctly identifies that the blast marks on the Jawa's barge are from stormtroopers, because they are so precise and accurate. Finally, we have Darth Vader explicitly state that he was letting Luke and Co. escape the Death Star because they had installed a tracker on their ship. The stormtroopers were supposed to be scaring them off back to the Falcon.
Then some people toss that out the window for "LOL, they can't shoot." I feel like if that movie were made today, the director would throw in even more dialogue with some thing like:
Officer: Have those troopers taken to extra training. Their shooting was inexcusable.
Vader: No. They were following my orders.
Officer: But they never landed a single shot.
Vader: Yes. I told them to intentionally miss all of their shots in order to direct the Rebels back to their ship.
Which is all information a viewer can easily surmise by just watching the original film. Leia even later correctly guesses that their escape was too easy. It's all there in the film.
I like how the storm troopers are just kinda "holy shit, a Jedi fight. Don't see these too often."
Very true. This one is also muddled slightly due to the fact that it was originally written to be Wookies on that planet (which would make more sense for the fight), but Lucas changed it. That's why Ewoks is just switching the syllables of Wookie. Regardless, the whole "The Empire was defeated by teddy bears" joke doesn't hold up.QFT! I have the same reaction to the Ewoks taking down the Empire take.
No, they were only an effective diversion but were soon getting slaughtered once the Empire regrouped. The tables only truly turned when Chewbacca commandeered an AtSt.
He is speaking figuratively. What he means is that through sacrificing himself to Vader, his death will serve as an inspiration to Luke and possibly others, emboldening them to manifest the will to grow stronger and continue fighting the empire until they defeat it and the dark side. The strength he is talking about is transitive, it passes from him to others - that is his legacy. He is also saying that Vader can't imagine this kind of strength because the dark side is predicated on fear, which suppresses the power to inspire through self sacrifice and contributing to the progress of others. Vader ultimately learns this lesson, as he sacrifices himself at the end of RotJ. In his death he finally discovers the strength Obi Wan displayed. It was like the final lesson from master to student.Then he says "if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine"
Vader should've laughed at this point. How can he be MORE powerful if he's dead?!?
He is speaking figuratively. What he means is that through sacrificing himself to Vader, his death will serve as an inspiration to Luke and possibly others, emboldening them to manifest the will to grow stronger and continue fighting the empire until they defeat it and the dark side. The strength he is talking about is transitive, it passes from him to others - that is his legacy. He is also saying that Vader can't imagine this kind of strength because the dark side is predicated on fear, which suppresses the power to inspire through self sacrifice and contributing to the progress of others. Vader ultimately learns this lesson, as he sacrifices himself at the end of RotJ. In his death he finally discovers the strength Obi Wan displayed. It was like the final lesson from master to student.
It still blows me away that so many Star Wars fans completely missed how this was also the main theme of TLJ.