Other normal people have no such problems "deciphering" the intent.
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The 'OK' hand signal - no longer acceptable?
- Thread starter PoppaBK
- Start date
I have to admit, if not for this forum, I wouldn't know it was a hate symbol.
Lots of people still use it innocently, which is what makes more sinister in some respects. You don't know if the other person is using it as simple OK or if they harbour fucked up views.
Not to mention that allows for a lot of built in plausible deniability.
Lots of people still use it innocently, which is what makes more sinister in some respects. You don't know if the other person is using it as simple OK or if they harbour fucked up views.
Not to mention that allows for a lot of built in plausible deniability.
Isn't the Chaplin mustache a parody of the Hitler mustache? I am confused.
Anyway I was just thinking how did this even become a thing. Then I remembered there is that "ok"-emoji and 4chan ran wild with and then it became a racist thing. Fucking 4chan.
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It looks to me that the upside down 'OK' is what's being used by racists. Additionally, racists hold the 'OK' sign for an extended time. If you're signaling that everything is 'OK', it's a short motion.
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Sure they do.
Someone who knows the other meaning now has to determine which intent is being used, and the intent that is chosen likely depends on the viewer's trust of the person or society at large.
Someone marginalized could decide it is safer to view it as a sign of ill intent. On the other hand, someone relatively unaffected by the negative connotation (and there by not often thinking on it) could easily make the assumption that the person means the nutral/positive meaning.
Chaplin took advantage of the mustache to parody Hitler, but was seen wearing it years before Hiter.
You're making a lot of assumptions about the thought processea of other people based on your own thoughts processes when seeing a commonly used hand gesture in everyday life devoid of context to suggest ill intent.
Simply put, what percentage of Americans do you think have the trouble discerning intent that you suggest? 1%? 0.1%? Or are even aware of this discussion in the first place? 5%? Maybe 10%?
Which is why it is able to survive as a symbol of ill-intent. If it was as obvious as the nazi-salute, it would not be as effective.
But to counter, you are placing a lot of trust on the people around you, which let me be clear, is a good thing. You seem to be assuming that most people are good, and kind, and generally well-meaning.
However, it is not the experience everyone is going to have had with society. As a result, it is not the assumption everyone is going to make, and that difference allows those with ill-intent to drive a tiny wedge between those impacted by that hatred and those who more easily see that positive interpretation.
Depending on the context, it can also mean asshole in sign language.
Either they're trying to be clever or just being stupid. Probably the latter.
Either they're trying to be clever or just being stupid. Probably the latter.
Your patronizing little lecture above shows you're still missing the point.
The vast majority of people don't know this a thing. Of those that do, I'd wager good money the vast majority of that tiny subset of the population don't think twice about seeing someone flash 👌to their waiter when the waiter walks by the table. "Was he signaling a belief that white genocide is a problem or was he signaling everything is ok with his meal? well, I've had encounters with bad people, so I assume the former".
You're in the heart of a dark forest, focused on one specific rotting diseased tree found at the center, assuming most of the population has followed you in this far. Most of the population kinda knows the forest exists and that's about it. Few visit, fewer venture in, and fewer still get to where you've gotten.
In context, it was a common but antiquated hand gesture before this. Like, most people shoot a thumbs up in real life and mostly Pixar characters or other mass media characters would still use it as an "ok" symbol.
In the past decade, it's something people threw up more in basketball ball for a three point shot than as an "ok" symbol
So I have no problem continuing to not use a symbol that few people in actual life has used since I was a kid.
To see someone using it now would be weird, even without the way trump people use it but especially now when half of whites are playing dumb about racism but actually rooting it on
In the past decade, it's something people threw up more in basketball ball for a three point shot than as an "ok" symbol
So I have no problem continuing to not use a symbol that few people in actual life has used since I was a kid.
To see someone using it now would be weird, even without the way trump people use it but especially now when half of whites are playing dumb about racism but actually rooting it on
You are not wrong about how deep in I am. I know that I am deep in the forest. I also know that I am not as deep as I could be; nor do I understand everything I see.
However, you interpreted my comments with more hostility than I intended. I do not think you are dumb or even wrong. It is so much more likely that the meaning intended by the guy on the corner flashing the ok symbol is just saying hello rather than saying White Power. As a result, it is more logical to assume the symbol just means ok. That's what it means 99% of the time, right?
Because of that, the 1% that uses it to spread a different message are able to move easily. Because the ok symbol is a just ok; milk is just milk; etc.
You mean you don't question whether or not Lebron is a nazi when he throws the three sign? The notion that non-nazis need to stop using the OK gesture is beyond stupid.
Yep. If you're using it when you're fixing a car, it's fine. If someone uses it while they're marching with white supremacists, or while they're preaching bigoted talking points or in a photo after slaughtering several minorities, there's likely a problem. The OK symbol is not the swastika yet.
Oxi
Se alguém pergunta se a comida está boa e a pessoa fizer um ok, é uma ofensa agora?
Nah, it's still fine.
Maybe, maybe having the symbol down by your waist (aka "made you look" game) should be used less and less. Though to be honest that would likely be used less and less anyhow due to the nature of dumb games going away over time.
But overhand "a-ok" is still perfectly fine. As is throwing it to signal a three pointer in basketball. We gotta stop letting Nazi shitfucks take away perfectly fine symbols just because they use them in a different context.
Maybe, maybe having the symbol down by your waist (aka "made you look" game) should be used less and less. Though to be honest that would likely be used less and less anyhow due to the nature of dumb games going away over time.
But overhand "a-ok" is still perfectly fine. As is throwing it to signal a three pointer in basketball. We gotta stop letting Nazi shitfucks take away perfectly fine symbols just because they use them in a different context.
I wouldn't use it, but it's fairly obvious when it's used in a white supremacist way. Nobody is going to bat an eye when a kid uses it to be cheerful to friends.
But if your kid starts doing it towards minority kids, then you have a problem. Just teach them to be decent and it's okay.
But if your kid starts doing it towards minority kids, then you have a problem. Just teach them to be decent and it's okay.
The one used by the White supremacists always look like they are hidding it, not overt the enough to convey that is is intentional, so ultimately a poor way to transfer information.
Got nothing on a true "ok" sing with the fingers pointing upwards. I wouldn't confuse the two.
Got nothing on a true "ok" sing with the fingers pointing upwards. I wouldn't confuse the two.
The smallest of the small minority of internet users are even remotely caring about this. If someone comes up to me and gives me an okay sign, I'll go ahead and continue to not assume they are 4chan white supremacists giving me codes. Occam's razor on this one.
I've been doing this all my life to mean "ok" or "just right" (as in, that worked out just right). I did it just the other day for only that reason.
It sucks if this gets co-opted to something hateful. I can adjust, simply stop using it. It's not that difficult. But it's a shitty petty intrusion on normality by these shitty petty people.
It sucks if this gets co-opted to something hateful. I can adjust, simply stop using it. It's not that difficult. But it's a shitty petty intrusion on normality by these shitty petty people.
From my experience, the ok sign is naturally done super quick. Something you quick flash for a couple seconds to show that everything's fine.
I wouldn't call it natural to hold it out for a long time, to pull it out randomly, to hold it below the waist, or, most importantly, to deliberately pose with it for a picture. Doing that raises flags for me.
(Also I see a lot of people comparing it to the three-point sign for basketball but it's actually noticeably different. That sign is usually flashed with both hands and is pointed forward to emphasize the three fingers sticking up. I've never seen an alt-righter go for that sort of obfuscation - it's always clearly supposed to be the ok sign.)
I wouldn't call it natural to hold it out for a long time, to pull it out randomly, to hold it below the waist, or, most importantly, to deliberately pose with it for a picture. Doing that raises flags for me.
(Also I see a lot of people comparing it to the three-point sign for basketball but it's actually noticeably different. That sign is usually flashed with both hands and is pointed forward to emphasize the three fingers sticking up. I've never seen an alt-righter go for that sort of obfuscation - it's always clearly supposed to be the ok sign.)
That's exactly why they're using it. It's a code. To people who don't understand it, you're just making an "ok" sign; to people who do understand it, you're sending a message of solidarity; to people who suspect it's a hate sign, you can say "don't be an idiot, it's an ok sign, lol."
i'm brazilian and never heard of this being offensive
it always depends on how you do it
Figured it was co-opted because people in general stopped doing the okay sign for the past decade.
It's had other non racist uses that are more common in basketball and the 'made you look' game
It's fine. At the same time, people should watch out when it's being used in a situation where it makes no sense to be saying "OK!"
Like, a person flashing the sign when posing for a simple photo is probably a real shitbag.
Like, a person flashing the sign when posing for a simple photo is probably a real shitbag.
And it's easy to spot because they hold it for so long. The only other people who hold it that long are playing the stupid gotcha game, and if you're doing that after the age of 12, you deserve to have people question your intentions if you're still using it.
And in diving, where the OK signs means exactly that.... while thumb up means you are going up/closer to the surface.
Just call it out when you see it used that way, because that's the important thing. Don't dismiss it as just a joke, or just a meme - that's explicitly what they want you to do.
"Hey, fuck off Nazi" vs "Lol it's nothing guys it's just memeing". Always tell Nazis to fuck off.
"Hey, fuck off Nazi" vs "Lol it's nothing guys it's just memeing". Always tell Nazis to fuck off.
The "WP = White Power" acronym is a bullshit narrative thrown together by 4channers to make it look more legitimate. The actual point of the ok sign was to troll liberals into "looking crazy" by thinking a benign hand gesture was a hate symbol.
However, when a lot of people start flashing the ok sign in pictures for some reason and they all happen to be white supremacists and alt-righters, then meaning and association start being applied regardless of intent. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, as the saying goes.