The Problematic nature of BBC's recent viral egg fried rice recipe

[Antiwhippy]

Reposting this because the previous title is a bit inciting (which I admit it was) and also to give a bit more context as to why it's problematic to Chinese Asians in general.



It's not just the rice cooking, though that is the part most people focused on, but if you show this recipe to any Asian who's made fried rice they would know immediately that's not how it's done. And fried rice is a hard recipe to fuck up. It's literally just what we cook with leftovers.

And for people saying it's a cultural thing because of the presenter being south asian, , firstly, it's an east asian recipe clearly. Also according to the presenter, this wasn't her recipe, she was just presenting a recipe the BBC gave to her.



But also the BBC literally also did a video inviting a South Asian chef on to show them how to properly cook rice. Even the video title implied that the way shown in the egg fried rice video is wrong!



Which is kind of part of the trend of "western" food sites that are showing non-western food in a clearly gentrified way.

 

[erlim]

I found it most problematic because of the normalization youtuber's histrionic brutally cringe Caricature of an accent. In the last post I was told it wasn't a big deal because it's like a Malay/Singaporean-Chinese accent. My dad and my whole family on my dad's side are ethnic Chinese from Malaysia, and I can tell you for shit sure nobody carries on like that.

To me, as an Asian American living in London and acting; if I was ever asked to perform like that I'd leave the room and never go back and never perform for that casting director again. Like I'm sure that guy has millions of followers, and people lap it all up, but I am absolutely not down with a cutesy reinforcing of the 'perpetual foreigner' trope. The last thread had another YouTuber who was even more egregious in his portrayal of SE or Eastern Asians.

I know that that youtuber doesn't represent all of us, but when I have to contend with being told to 'Go quarantine and take my lousy virus back to China' in public spaces in the US at the age of 34, in 2020; despite not speaking any language but enlgish, being born and raised in America, with a mom that was born and bred in the US that speaks no language but English, I don't have the patience to deal with that guys buffoon caricature reinforcing stereotypes.

 

[Akira86]

this is what happens when you think culture is just as malleable as language, and in the same way via repetition.

you don't just walk up and ignore the old customs and invent a new thing, calling it by it's old name.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I found it most problematic because of the normalization youtuber's histrionic brutally cringe Caricature of an accent. In the last post I was told it wasn't a big deal because it's like a Malay/Singaporean-Chinese accent. My dad and my whole family on my dad's side are ethnic Chinese from Malaysia, and I can tell you for shit sure nobody carries on like that.

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I lived half my life in Singapore and Malaysia and can tell you I know quite a few who carry on like that as a joke.

Also it's not like Chinese Malaysians is a monolithic ethnic identity. There's the Cantonese, Peranakans, Teo-Chews, etc etc.

 

[sirap]

That accent is gross and it's never been funny, even here in Malaysia.

 

[War Peaceman]

I don't see what is so objectionable about the original video? It isn't pretending to be the only or superior way to cook egg fried rice. It is just a simple and accessible one. I mean they are unlikely to recommend the use of MSG because it is not an ingredient widely available in British kitchens. Similarly rice cookers are not widely available.

 

[Soundscream]

I don't understand how draining rice is a thing.

 

[Fart Master]

I don't understand what the problem is

 

[The Fabled Englishman]

I really don't think you've made the case for why the original video is culturally insensitive. Yes, it's a bad way of cooking rice and decidedly cringey. No, the presenter is not claiming that this is the superior Western 'ubermensch' method of cooking rice.

And it's especially weird to take issue with the original video when the commentary video essentially consists of a lowest common denominator stereotype of Chinese/Malaysian-Chinese/Singaporean-Chinese people for comedic effect.

 

[erlim]

I lived half my life in Singapore and Malaysia and can tell you I know quite a few who carry on like that as a joke.

Also it's not like Chinese Malaysians is a monolithic ethnic identity. There's the Cantonese, Peranakans, Teo-Chews, etc etc.

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So my dad's side of the family is Hainanese-Malay. I dunno, haven't spent to much time there and my dearly departed dad came to the US in the 1960s to go to medical school.

So maybe I haven't interacted enough with the communities when I've visited Ipoh or KL or JB to get the humor, but that dude's schtick is horrifying to me.

Like, maybe it's one thing to carry on amongst friends from the same social and cultural background making a funny grandpa voice, but in the context of being the gate keeper for culinary culture on greater new media, I just feel like it's normalizing some horrible caricature for people that have no cultural ties to what he is lampooning.

 

[Jonnax]

I don't see what is so objectionable about the original video? It isn't pretending to be the only or superior way to cook egg fried rice. It is just a simple and accessible one. I mean they are unlikely to recommend the use of MSG because it is not an ingredient widely available in British kitchens. Similarly rice cookers are not widely available.

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1) Too much water was added to the rice to cook it
2) You don't drain rice in a colander, that's trying to rescue putting too much water
3) You wash the starch out of rice before you cook it
4) Egg friend rice uses dry rice, not fresh as it'll be soggy. You'd put the rice in the fridge for a day at least.

A South Asian person wouldn't make the first three mistakes. Especially you can't say that culturally a South Asian person wouldn't know. Because it's just wrong even if you're using a rice cooker.

Tbh. I find that reaction guy distasteful.
It's putting on a stereotype accent whose main audience is white people with no exposure to other accents.

Also there's the thing where people that grow up in the West don't realise they are different "their" people that grew up in their home countries. And mocking accents just comes off as elitism.

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I've no idea what OP is talking about though.

 

[Chainsawkitten]

I don't understand how draining rice is a thing.

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It reduces arsenic by 60%.

 

[Goodlifr]

A South Asian person wouldn't make the first three mistakes.

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Is that really the case though?

I mean I'm British and if you take something like roast dinner, which is typically British food and ask a British person to make it, 90% would fuck it up

 

[Antiwhippy]

I don't see what is so objectionable about the original video? It isn't pretending to be the only or superior way to cook egg fried rice. It is just a simple and accessible one. I mean they are unlikely to recommend the use of MSG because it is not an ingredient widely available in British kitchens. Similarly rice cookers are not widely available.

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I mean it is a published recipe.

Egg-fried rice recipe

Watch our video to find out how to make egg-fried and discover just how easy it is.

www.bbc.co.uk

Also the real question is why not get a professional East Asian chef to demo and give an east asian recipe? It's not like fried rice is that complicated either. It's literally just a leftovers recipe.

I really don't think you've made the case for why the original video is culturally insensitive. Yes, it's a bad way of cooking rice and decidedly cringey. No, the presenter is not claiming that this is the superior Western 'ubermensch' method of cooking rice.

And it's especially weird to take issue with the original video when the commentary video essentially consists of a lowest common denominator stereotype of Chinese/Malaysian-Chinese/Singaporean-Chinese people for comedic effect.

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If you see the original video it's claiming that the recipe is just like your chinese takeouts, and man if that's the standard for takeouts (especially for $8???) the bar is super low for chinese food then.

So my dad's side of the family is Hainanese-Malay. I dunno, haven't spent to much time there and my dearly departed dad came to the US in the 1960s to go to medical school.

So maybe I haven't interacted enough with the communities when I've visited Ipoh or KL or JB to get the humor, but that dude's schtick is horrifying to me.

Like, maybe it's one thing to carry on amongst friends from the same social and cultural background making a funny grandpa voice, but in the context of being the gate keeper for culinary culture on greater new media, I just feel like it's normalizing some horrible caricature for people that have no cultural ties to what he is lampooning.

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Fair enough I guess, but honestly this is shared a lot in Asian circles online, quite a number actually from Malaysia/Singapore, and everyone was more offended by the recipe than the actual accent. Like I've said, I have grew up in those cultures and I have seen that kind of humour being acceptable. Singaporeans make fun of their Singlish, but we take pride in it too.

Remember, english in the context for Chinese who lives in the straits has more to do with its history rooted in British colonialism than the struggles of chinese people trying to integrate into American culture. Though I do understand that side as a Chinese who had to integrate into Australian culture.

 

[Mariachi507]

I'm trying to catch up here...

-the original video sucks because she's butchering the process of cooking rice, right? That part is obvious.

-but the uncle Roger dude, the commentator making fun of her, sucks as well because he's playing a racist caricature? I assume then that he has other videos where he comes across rather differently in the way he speaks and such?

Right? Right?

 

[Pluto]

Why is she draining the rice? I learned you take one cup of rice, two cups of water, a bit of salt and then you cook it until the water's gone and then the rice is ready. That might be wrong too but that's how I've been doing it.

 

[erlim]

Honestly, I've had the same blood draining and stomach sinking reaction to that reaction video guy as I do when I see Long Duk Dong or Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Just wretched for media representation.

 

[Azerach]

Last time this came up I learned boiling it down vs draining are both fine, they're both done in Asia and neither are culturally offensive.

 

[PontyfaxJr]

I'm so confused by this thread.
"Problematic" is surely reserved for worse things that badly cooked rice?

 

[caliph95]

It's not just an Asian thing, west Africans cook rice the same way

i didn't know people cooked it like that so i was shocked

 

[Soundscream]

It reduces arsenic by 60%.

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Unless you are a child or eating ungodly amounts of rice, it's not something you should be worried about.

 

[Interested Observer]

I can't watch the video right now but I've read the OP and the 'problematic' bit is they cook the rice wrong?

 

[blue_whale]

Shouldn't present bad recipes it's not cool. There are millions of people who know how to make egg fried rice but apparently bbc couldn't find one

 

[RestEerie]

reminds me of the 'rendang' incident which ironically, also took place in the UK...

Malaysians roast MasterChef over chicken rendang elimination

When a chicken rendang dish was dismissed for not being 'crispy', a nation's social media roared.

www.bbc.com

as an ethnic chinese singaporean (and thus southeast asian) myself.........yah......some of the western cooking shows just doesn't seems to 'get' our food recipe right at all.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I'm so confused by this thread.
"Problematic" is surely reserved for worse things that badly cooked rice?

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I mean I literally explained how it's presenting a gentrified version of an east asian dish in a recipe that clearly has no east asian input.

 

[Antiwhippy]

reminds me of the 'rendang' incident which ironically, also took place in the UK...

Malaysians roast MasterChef over chicken rendang elimination

When a chicken rendang dish was dismissed for not being 'crispy', a nation's social media roared.

www.bbc.com

as an ethnic chinese singaporean (and thus southeast asian) myself.........yah......some of the western cooking shows just doesn't seems to 'get' our food recipe right at all.

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Yeah, especially looking at this as seeing a british website brutalise traditional recipes of the places they colonise.

 

[Ikuu]

The exaggerated accent is far more problematic than cooking rice incorrectly.

 

[AGoodODST]

Loads of people cook rice that way? Not everyone has a rice cooker and it's not like the rice is inedible or disgusting if you cook it that way. Isn't the video supposed to be a simple accessible recipe to make at home quickly anyway? I don't see a problem with it, especially the way the OP is trying to frame it.

 

[War Peaceman]

I mean I literally explained how it's presenting a gentrified version of an east asian dish in a recipe that clearly has no east asian input.

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I still find it a bit weird that you have to have an east asian person in to cook the dish in an east asian way.

It isn't pretending to be the definitive way to cook the dish, just a simple and accessible way. It seems very strange that you have to follow rigidly to the original culture's way (I'm sure there are also many variations in this anyway!). It is not for sale and it is simply a part of the BBC's educational mandate.

Dont get me wrong, there are definitely examples of this kind of food imperialism, but I don't feel this is a compelling example.

 

[blue_whale]

Alright lots of you guys may have never had proper fried rice I get that. A cultural analogue would be like if someone put a video together of making a hamburger and their first step was to parboil the patty. The recipe is just not right and you won't get the good result.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Loads of people cook rice that way? Not everyone has a rice cooker and it's not like the rice is inedible or disgusting if you cook it that way. Isn't the video supposed to be a simple accessible recipe to make at home quickly anyway? I don't see a problem with it, especially the way the OP is trying to frame it.

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Then why did the BBC literally also posted a video calling into question the method of cooking rice that they showed in the video and actually showed the proper way of cooking rice? I literally posted that video in the OP lol. Even the BBC said it's the wrong way.

I still find it a bit weird that you have to have an east asian person in to cook the dish in an east asian way.

It isn't pretending to be the definitive way to cook the dish, just a simple and accessible way. It seems very strange that you have to follow rigidly to the original culture's way (I'm sure there are also many variations in this anyway!). It is not for sale and it is simply a part of the BBC's educational mandate.

Dont get me wrong, there are definitely examples of this kind of food imperialism, but I don't feel this is a compelling example.

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She said "it's like a takeaway that you paid 8 quid for" so I assume it's meant to be the standard of how professionally cooked Chinese food is. So it's at least setting up a standard.

 

[Goodlifr]

Yeah, especially looking at this as seeing a british website brutalise traditional recipes of the places they colonise.

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I must admit, I've always liked the British approach to food. There is traditional British cuisine (some of it very good, despite it's reputation) but then as a country I've always thought we've been pretty decent at incorporating other cuisines.

I've never really thought of it as a bad thing, but starting to see why it could be problematic

 

[AGoodODST]

Then why did the BBC literally also posted a video calling into question the method of cooking rice that they showed in the video and actually showed the proper way of cooking rice? I literally posted that video in the OP lol. Even the BBC said it's the wrong way.



She said "it's like a takeaway that you paid 8 quid for" so I assume it's meant to be the standard of how professionally cooked Chinese food is. So it's at least setting up a standard.

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Okay? It's still a way to cook rice? It's not saying it's the best or authentic way. And it's more the way you are trying to frame it as cultural appropriation/gentrification when the original video is meant to be a simple accessible recipe. There's of course plenty of examples of this around of course, that video isn't a good example of it.

 

[julia crawford]

A South Asian person wouldn't make the first three mistakes. Especially you can't say that culturally a South Asian person wouldn't know. Because it's just wrong even if you're using a rice cooker.

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I... I really can't believe this. People do things badly all the time. People cook things in wrong ways all the time. Even in countries with strong gastronomy people fuck things up all the time. Not everyone is good at cooking or even picking up recipes through cultural osmosis. I would even say that anyone who's lived with roommates must know this to be true.

 

[Gibson]

The BBC recipe is just using a commonly used method across the UK. The vast majority of people don't own a rice cooker and also have to use long grain or basmati rices to best try and emulate East Asian dishes (with varying degrees of success)
It might not be authentic but as a simple and easy recipe for the average UK amateur cook it's probably not the worst attempt at saving a bit of money instead of ordering a take away. To those of us who know better it is clearly a bit of a duff recipe but there are thousands of questionable recipes online.

Throwing out words like gentrification and problematic is a bit silly in my opinion.

 

[War Peaceman]

She said "it's like a takeaway that you paid 8 quid for" so I assume it's meant to be the standard of how professionally cooked Chinese food is. So it's at least setting up a standard.

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It is a reference point to the place where most of of the intended audience may have already accessed the dish.

It is also worth reminding that they are not profiting off this recipe. It is just another recipe on the huge pile that bbc food has. Bear in mind the BBC food does not operate like other recipe providers. The BBC has a mandate to educate.

 

[Ikuu]

Then why did the BBC literally also posted a video calling into question the method of cooking rice that they showed in the video and actually showed the proper way of cooking rice? I literally posted that video in the OP lol. Even the BBC said it's the wrong way.

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The programmes will most likely have been made by different production companies.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I must admit, I've always liked the British approach to food. There is traditional British cuisine (some of it very good, despite it's reputation) but then as a country I've always thought we've been pretty decent at incorporating other cuisines.

I've never really thought of it as a bad thing, but starting to see why it could be problematic

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Like honestly there's nothing wrong with that? Just kinda depends on the process. Like British Indian cuisine is clearly from Indian migrants who had to make do with what they can get in Britain and also adapt to British tastes. That I think is fine.

Okay? It's still a way to cook rice? It's not saying it's the best or authentic way. And it's more the way you are trying to frame it as cultural appropriation/gentrification when the original video is meant to be a simple accessible recipe. There's of course plenty of examples of this around of course, that video isn't a good example of it.

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I mean did you see the video in question? The proper way to cook it is even less complicated than what they've showed.

 

[Pet]

I still find it a bit weird that you have to have an east asian person in to cook the dish in an east asian way.

It isn't pretending to be the definitive way to cook the dish, just a simple and accessible way. It seems very strange that you have to follow rigidly to the original culture's way (I'm sure there are also many variations in this anyway!). It is not for sale and it is simply a part of the BBC's educational mandate.

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Maybe if they didn't consistently show non East Asians fucking up East Asian recipes/foods, people wouldn't react this way.

Also, rigidly follow? No, we're expecting y'all to not fuck up the most basic component of a dish.

 

[Atraveller]

I still find it a bit weird that you have to have an east asian person in to cook the dish in an east asian way.

It isn't pretending to be the definitive way to cook the dish, just a simple and accessible way. It seems very strange that you have to follow rigidly to the original culture's way (I'm sure there are also many variations in this anyway!). It is not for sale and it is simply a part of the BBC's educational mandate.

Dont get me wrong, there are definitely examples of this kind of food imperialism, but I don't feel this is a compelling example.

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It's not even a simple and accessible way. Just get a fucking rice cooker!

And the chef is South Asian, she knows how to cook rice, yet she had to follow the white people recipe. Are you not getting it?

 

[Royalan]

Speaking as someone who specializes in soul food/Cajun cooking...the only (and I do mean only) reason I can see for rinsing rice after cooking it is that some recipes (like some jambalayas) come out better with stiffer rice? In most cases, that would just mean using leftover rice (as rice gets stiffer/dryer over time). If you don't have leftover rice, I guess rinsing it after cooking would create a similar texture?

I dunno.

I'll default to people who know how to best cook fried rice, and agree that rinsing rice after cooking it is weird.

 

[Antiwhippy]

It is a reference point to the place where most of of the intended audience may have already accessed the dish.

It is also worth reminding that they are not profiting off this recipe. It is just another recipe on the huge pile that bbc food has. Bear in mind the BBC food does not operate like other recipe providers. The BBC has a mandate to educate.

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I mean.

Why not educate people to do it in a way that is actually done by the cultures that has rice as a staple dish for centuries if not millenias.

Again I don't get why "it's just meant to be an easy recipe" is the go to defense. Fried rice is literally one of the most basic and easy east asian dish to make. Doing it the way east asians make it is not complicated in any way, I can guarantee you.

And they still fucked up.

I don't even know why people think it's complicated. Is it because it's Asian?

 

[War Peaceman]

I mean.

Why not educate people to do it in a way that is actually done by the cultures that has rice as a staple dish for centuries if not millenias.

Again I don't get why "it's just meant to be an easy recipe" is the go to defense. Fried rice is literally one of the most basic and easy east asian dish to make. Doing it the way east asians make it is not complicated in any way, I can guarantee you.

And they still fucked up.

I don't even know why people think it's complicated. Is it because it's Asian?

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It is complicated because they are fucking idiots! Have you been to England? You need to ease people into it. The level of cooking proficiency is very low...

Plus as has already been said there already are recipes there that suggest the 'proper' way of cooking rice.

And to those saying, get a rice cooker. Sure, but not hugely helpful when someone is about to cook and looking for a recipe.

Obviously it is a bad recipe, nobody disagrees with that!

 

[Jonnax]

Is that really the case though?

I mean I'm British and if you take something like roast dinner, which is typically British food and ask a British person to make it, 90% would fuck it up

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I... I really can't believe this. People do things badly all the time. People cook things in wrong ways all the time. Even in countries with strong gastronomy people fuck things up all the time. Not everyone is good at cooking or even picking up recipes through cultural osmosis. I would even say that anyone who's lived with roommates must know this to be true.

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Ah. Sorry I wasn't really clear.
My point was more that people were saying "She's South Asian, culturally she wouldn't know how to cook rice"

As if South Asian people don't cook rice.

 

[blue_whale]

Anyway almost more important than not using too much water is using yesterday's rice. I always make fried rice from yesterday's dinner. It's supposed to be cheap yummy lunch

 

[Royalan]

Anyway almost more important than not using too much water is using yesterday's rice. I always make fried rice from yesterday's dinner. It's supposed to be cheap yummy lunch

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That's what I'm thinking!

Like, leftover rice has its uses!

 

[SilentPanda]

It is complicated because they are fucking idiots! Have you been to England? You need to ease people into it.

Plus as has already been said there already are recipes there that suggest the 'proper' way of cooking rice.

And to those saying, get a rice cooker. Sure, but not hugely helpful when someone is about to cook and looking for a recipe.

Obviously it is a bad recipe, nobody disagrees with that!

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You don't need a rice cooker to cook rice?

And if it is the BBC making a cooking show how to, they should have provided a better tool and recipe, it's not a youtuber,
But a professional channel that can't do the most basic,

 

[Ac30]

It reduces arsenic by 60%.

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That's why you wash rice *before* cooking it, to my knowledge. I've never drained rice after cooking it (rice cookers are lovely!)

 

[Springy]

Is that really the case though?

I mean I'm British and if you take something like roast dinner, which is typically British food and ask a British person to make it, 90% would fuck it up

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Washing and cooking white rice isn't comparable to a Sunday roast. It's a kitchen basic. A better comparison would be to ask a Briton to make some toast; would 90% fuck that up?

 

[Antiwhippy]

Speaking as someone who specializes in soul food/Cajun cooking...the only (and I do mean only) reason I can see for rinsing rice after cooking it is that some recipes (like some jambalayas) come out better with stiffer rice? In most cases, that would just mean using leftover rice (as rice gets stiffer/dryer over time). If you don't have leftover rice, I guess rinsing it after cooking would create a similar texture?

I dunno.

I'll default to people who know how to best cook fried rice, and agree that rinsing rice after cooking it is weird.

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Stiffer rice usually means it's drier though so it's better to absorb the oil/sauces.