Xiao Hu

Chicken Chaser
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,497
Netflix's offering is rather weak in Europe, especially after they gave in and started blocking VPN for accessing the American content. I don't really watch TV and still have the cheap student version for Amazon Prime so if I want to watch something it's usually through them. I sometimes register for a Sky Ticket when GoT has its most current season on.

I will probably reactivate Netflix once Star Trek Discovery is back on, but after that I don't see much reason to continue my subscription since I will have binged everything I wanted by the second month. In my opinion Netflix needs to step up their content game, so far it's been 1:2 when it comes to interesting series/movie productions. Maybe try to acquire CBS/Viacom in the long run? Tons of legacy IPs and current productions.
 

L4DANathan

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
858
Fairfax, VA, USA
I think the streaming sweet spot was Netflix/Hulu/Amazon. Netflix and Amazon saw what was coming and started investing hard in original content. I suspect that given a few years, Netflix/Amazon/Disney will be the new centerpieces.
 

Snack12367

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,191
meh, better services and better prices would be better for streaming services. Prices go up, bt usage goes up.

That's how I imagined it, but the problem is that streaming services aren't offering the same product anymore. Netflix has what it has. Disney has what it has and HBO has was it has. There's no real sharing of content between them. Most of what Netflix has that is owned by Disney, is just licence hold overs waiting to expire.

From a high level they all offer the same thing, but the product is different when you examine it. They aren't sharing a market, they're carving one out for themselves, though licences properties. In a way we've taken a step back in Streaming Services. If this were the real world, you'd have one dvd store selling Kids movies, another dedicated to TV series and another dedicated to Marvel dvds. You'd think these would fail, but thanks to the internet, people who only want what they want, can now get it.

Unless something changes, I foresee the continued divvying up of entertainment properties, followed or with the increase in prices as the owners of these service gauge the market. It makes total sense to me that Piracy would be an escape from the situation. I foresee a lot more of it. Maybe we'll get the Pirate Bay back or something.
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
I don't mind paying for stuff, even for just one show. But a lot of stuff just isn't available here. Hulu, HBO ( in general, not just the streaming part), Netflix is missing a lot (even though I think the selection is still decent and some TV shows from cable networks show up here), Amazon is lagging with content here, and I cant even choose to pay for seasons of shows that are already out because of possible content deals with networks here.

So yeah, I've been thinking about looking up some of the shows that are on Showtime for example. Some of them are distributed through netflix, but most of them aren't.
 

JoeNut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
UK
It makes sense because right now in the uk you need Amazon, Netflix Sky and BT to get absolutely everything including live sports. I guess torrents are different than live streaming but that's another form of piracy.
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,827
Hamburg, Germany
Very, very unsurprising. People expected their streaming service choice to show everything they'd like to see, like a video library or rental service, when in reality everything's still fragmented, not available on certain services or exclusive to others. If you'd sign up for everything that's remotely relevant (as in, a handful of "must-see" exclusives per year), you're paying more than just buying the damn movies you want on Bluray.

If a service would just stay away from production and exclusives and instead show fucking anything that's been in cinemas, without stuff rotating out or major classic or modern movies not being available, they'd be golden, but I guess that's a licensing nightmare.

Edit
Example netflix: Source: Different countries compared to US
Euro: 8. 11 and 14. Series: 0387, Movies: 1408, Percentage series: 29.79, Percentage movies: 37.68
Dollar: 8, 11 and 14. Series: 1299, Movies: 4090, Percentage series: 100, Percentage movies: 100
Also, this. Price to content ratio in EU is crazy compared to the US
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,454
This is like the opposite of what gaming section is discussing about all developers leaving Steam and forming their own place.

Competition yes, but you have to pay more if you want to watch all your favorite shows and make multiple accounts.

Wouldn't be surprised to see PC gaming piracy start to rise in a few years as well
You don't have to pay subscription for any of the Steam-alternatives and few of them have gained any traction anyway.
Having too many games split between too many launchers may become a nuisance but that's about it.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,532
I've never paid for a streaming video service, and I don't think I ever will.

Give me the ability to purchase movies and TV shows I want, to keep forever, and play them on my Kodi-based OpenELEC HTPC and my Linux desktop PC, without any concern of losing them to DRM server shutdowns, then we'll talk.

And no. Optical discs are not an acceptable solution.

Maybe we'll get the Pirate Bay back or something.
It's still around today.
 

RulkezX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,342
I wonder how much revenue is lost through account sharing as well.

There are so many services now that my friends and family all just share logins of services they don't own
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
I guess this would be a good place to ask my question. Does anyone here actually have Hulu? When do they add new episodes? Do they add them the night they air or the following day?
 

Mr. Pointy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,141
This was the expected outcome when everyone and their dog wanted to start a streaming subscription service.
 

Kolibri

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,024
Everyone saw this coming the second Netflix was succesful and others were fighting for that market share.

In a way it would be great if the services weren't allowed to make exclusive series/deals, because then they'd have to mainly compete on quality of the service and subscribtion price.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,850
You don't have to pay subscription for any of the Steam-alternatives and few of them have gained any traction anyway.
Having too many games split between too many launchers may become a nuisance but that's about it.
You need separate accounts for all of these services. It's getting to the point that you need a password manager to play PC games. This is a major problem with all these TV/movie streaming services as well.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
Here in Sweden, piracy was and is still extremely active even when Netflix was the at the height of it's dominance cause how absolutely poor the catalogue of shows is compared to other countries.

As pointed out here:
my biggest problem with streaming services is the fact i almost pay the same as US citizen and get far less content.

Example netflix: Source: Different countries compared to US
Euro: 8. 11 and 14. Series: 0387, Movies: 1408, Percentage series: 29.79, Percentage movies: 37.68
Dollar: 8, 11 and 14. Series: 1299, Movies: 4090, Percentage series: 100, Percentage movies: 100

Euro is for my own country. The percentage is compared to the US.

So yeah, i understand why people would go the pirate way.
Even way worse in others.

And then now you have many, many, many more streaming services all offering exclusive shows, exclusive licensing with varying catalogues depending on country. Of course people get annoyed. I have a friend of mine who lives in Germany, I try to suggest to her a lot of different shows to watch on Cruncyroll, only for her to tell me "they don't have it".

People are gonna get tired of that shit and pirate then.
 

RoyalJello

Member
Jul 29, 2018
50
The virtual communism thing said on the first page actually seems appropriate here. Just saying
-I wish the digital industry became redundant this way
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,401
Requesting a title change to "A renaissance of preservation comes to exclusive content by Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and others"
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,304
London
Just give me a service for max 35 a month where I can get all my media from. Movies, series, books and music. Hell, I would even pay higher than that.

Why would anyone possibly want to do that?

Edit: also requesting title change to "Vice publishes bullshit article misreprenting evidence and people take it as gospel because it plays to their existing prejudices about self justification for piracy."
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,720
Here in Sweden, piracy was and is still extremely active even when Netflix was the at the height of it's dominance cause how absolutely poor the catalogue of shows is compared to other countries.

As pointed out here:

Even way worse in others.

And then now you have many, many, many more streaming services all offering exclusive shows, exclusive licensing with varying catalogues depending on country. Of course people get annoyed. I have a friend of mine who lives in Germany, I try to suggest to her a lot of different shows to watch on Cruncyroll, only for her to tell me "they don't have it".

People are gonna get tired of that shit and pirate then.


Yeah, German here and the few days I could try US Netflix via VPN and have it work (not on my tv though:/) was maddening in the stuff they get.

Even shows that were on tv and dubbed like Community and Parks and Rec are not available, let alone the dozens of recent movies we don't get.

The peak level of "what the hell is this" was reached two weeks ago when I wanted to watch a "favourite background movie" and neither The Patriot nor The Last Samurai nor Black Hawk Down was on Netflix or Amazon Prime. Like, wtf. At least I had BHD on DVD.
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
Here in Norway even if I had a sub to all the streaming services I can get I could not get all the shows so it's no wonder piracy is rampant. Also netflix etc have horrible libraries outside the states.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,059
my biggest problem with streaming services is the fact i almost pay the same as US citizen and get far less content.

Example netflix: Source: Different countries compared to US
Euro: 8. 11 and 14. Series: 0387, Movies: 1408, Percentage series: 29.79, Percentage movies: 37.68
Dollar: 8, 11 and 14. Series: 1299, Movies: 4090, Percentage series: 100, Percentage movies: 100

Euro is for my own country. The percentage is compared to the US.

So yeah, i understand why people would go the pirate way.

I always knew Finnish Netflix was pretty garbage, but it's wild to see just how bad it really is.
 

Norwegian_Imposter

Circumventing a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,757
Here in Norway even if I had a sub to all the streaming services I can get I could not get all the shows so it's no wonder piracy is rampant. Also netflix etc have horrible libraries outside the states.
yeah and sometimes I just want to watch some shows that I love... let me buy the damn show!

I have Netflix and hbo nordic and prime (because of twitch)
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,005
Most people I know just use Netflix, and for shows that are not on Netflix they pirate with a streaming video app on Android that's quite easy to use and convenient.
 

Zulith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,795
West Coast, USA
I'm excited for some of the content coming to the DC and Disney streaming services, but it makes me upset that they are going that route rather than just releasing them on cable networks or partnering with an existing service such as netflix or amazon. It's becoming too much. I know i'm not going to be willing to pony up a monthly sub for all of these upcoming services... so something is gonna have to give.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,953
I really will probably never go for subscription models with things like entertainment. Discrete purchases are always preferable.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
You do realize that:

1.) Amazon has gotten rid of that whole democratizing pilot season thing because:

2.) It didn't really work/isn't really working for them? The wait between pilot and whole season was getting long enough that they'd lose whatever buzz the pilots had, they're becoming more like other streamers where they pick up whole seasons before the show airs (because that's what you have to be doing to compete with Netflix and everyone else going for top talent right now), and on top of that the process wasn't really that great at determining show quality (their most critically acclaimed show before Ms. Maisel was Transparent, and that was the lowest rated show of its pilot season).

From what I've seen, Netflix has forgone that practice you describe because it wasn't working for them, either. They cancelled more shows in the last 2 seasons than the networks did, if I recall correctly. And networks have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to cancellations.
They appear to instead have moved on to signing majorly famous seasoned creatives like Shonda Rhimes and Ryan Murphy to exclusivity/first-pass deals on all their new projects. It's a marked shift from their "throw it at the wall and see if it sticks" attitude that they had previously demonstrated. So Amazon is a few steps behind their major competitor as it is.

The democratized pilot season was a win for consumers and inconvenient for producers and Amazon. Trusting user metrics seems like a better bet in the interim, but a consumer-facing solution is going to be necessary to save big-budget productions and keep pricing low.

Personally, I'm not against raising subscription prices to meet the cost needs of production, but to do that, you have to offer something worth the price, not just something marginally flashier. Their current price point seems to work for what they offer. They've already bumped pricing up to pay for their original programming needs once before, I feel certain that it will happen again. And while some will recoil at the notion, to put it bluntly, asking for a premium hasn't hurt HBO's subscriber numbers one single iota.

As to everything else: Everything that the content makers do, generally speaking, is hiding the actual cost of what the show costs to you. Buying shows after the fact is treated as ancillary income after the networks (or streaming services) pay for production. They aren't gonna cut off their nose to spite their face by pissing off the people actually paying to make the show just so they can make an extra $20-30 off you.

How are they "cutting off the nose to spite their face", exactly? I'm not suggesting day-and-date availability on services like iTunes, but ANY availability beyond their current model of practically none. Because as it stands right now, I'm extorted to pay for Netflix. That's not a feeling that just goes away and not a feeling that's unique to me (hence all the people who pay for a month and then bail, to maneuver around it). That's a feeling that takes one more push of my buttons to lose my subscription, and then they either have to provide ANY a-la-carte solution or lose money anyways and, as you put it, "piss off the people actually paying to make the show".

The major networks and several of the cable channels seem to appreciate the a-la-carte business model and benefit from it greatly, using it to prop up a universal drop in OTA and cable TV ratings and compete with piracy prior to the advent of the current streaming service sprawl. If they, the ones paying for the content, didn't earn a huge chunk of cash from it, they would have stuck to Hulu the moment it became a thing, abandoned the business model and been done with it. Netflix, Amazon and CBS seem to be the only ones who didn't get the memo and lock their streaming originals behind a service subscription indefinitely unless prohibited by contract with the producers (as was likely the case with Marvel).
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,273
It's really wild to read how this is worse than cable, or at least getting there. For one Cable has ALWAYS had channel lock in for certain things. HBO & Showtime were always locked behind premium channel payments, many channels used to only be in upgraded plans, HD & DVR hardware, etc. The huge benefit cable offered was the ease of browsing everything, but then this resulted in people saying "THERES JUST SO MUCH JUNK" (there's a ton on Netflix, Hulu, etc). And the reality is cable service is fairly cheap realtive to the glut of content, we're just stuck shit hardware without any forward thinking features that is expesnive to use.

With these services you have no contract lock in, you're free to use ANY piece of hardware you want, you can watch on a phone & pick it up when you get home on your roku/ps4/xbox/appletv/etc. The only real downside is the number of accounts, but set them up once and you're done. If you're going to just say "how i can watch it all", well don't? As mentioned above there is plenty of trash TV on these services but the binge model makes it way easier to just consume and move on. Netflix is pumping out reality type TV shows either via their own production or through licesnsing deals.

The biggest downside is no propr centralization of all of these services. Roku & AppleTV kind of solve this with universal search, but it's still not that great. None of these services are going to open that up though because they want you IN their product to pump content suggestions at you to keep you in the product.
 

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,507
When the shows you watch are spread across 30 different channels and each one requires a separate login to watch you can totally see the appeal of just downloading the goddamn thing.

That and the price is about $/€ 10-15 per service, same goes for all the music streaming apps.
Not condoning piracy but I can understand that people don't have the money to get all these seperate subscriptions.
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,720
I'm guessing those are on Amazon in Germany, they are in the Netherlands..


Not included in Prime, though. Prime Video has become such a rotten selection.

Oh, and the Stallone Dredd used to be on Amazon Prime a few years back, the playback was always very glitchy though and then they completly removed it from their streaming service. The title still shows up, but only with a "this video is currently not available in your location". It has been like that for at least two years.

Glorius streaming future :/

I bought BP and Infinity War on BR because of crap like this.
 

Aureon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,819
I know people who have Sky, have Netflix, and will just pirate anything that's not on either.
A lot of people.
 

tommy7154

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,370
Surprise surprise. Nobody is going to pay for 5 different "services".

Everybody (except me of course) does it. I should turn everyone I know in to the proper authorities to right this great injustice plaguing our society.
 

witchedwiz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
361
I can understand the situation...
I have Netflix and prime video (which is the only excuse for Amazon prime price increase at this point).. and missing stuff is frustrating..

We have reached a point where a solid piece of our income goes into maintaining services..
Internet? Services
Cellphone data plan? Service
Online gaming? Service (ps, xblg, nintendo )
Online subscriptions ? (Mmo, Netflix, hbo, sky, etc)
Sports channel subscription? (Sky, dazn, etc)
Subscription to get better services? (So far only amazon, gcu, but more might come up..)
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,273
I can understand the situation...
I have Netflix and prime video (which is the only excuse for Amazon prime price increase at this point).. and missing stuff is frustrating..

We have reached a point where a solid piece of our income goes into maintaining services..
Online gaming? Service (ps, xblg, nintendo )
Online subscriptions ? (Mmo, Netflix, hbo, sky, etc)
Sports channel subscription? (Sky, dazn, etc)
Subscription to get better services? (So far only amazon, gcu, but more might come up..)

All of these are not necessities to day to day life. No one is required to pay for XBox Live, Netflix, AMazon, and HBO.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,063
The Netherlands
Just give me a service for max 35 a month where I can get all my media from. Movies, series, books and music. Hell, I would even pay higher than that.

I could see a "stacking" format regarding subscriptions. But thing is, streaming services want you to subscribe to them directly, so there would have to be a new service provider that would enable that (not to mention having their own overhead costs).
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Yeah this pretty much a "no shit" thing. People were never going to have 10 or 5 different subs. I'm not paying for anything beyond Netflix or Hulu. Maybe I'll sub for a free week somewhere but I'm not paying for additional months.

Plus with the rise of firestick, and the fact that my little cousin sets them up for all his friends parents. It's the 90's with hot boxes all over again. Except now...shit is so easy ten year olds can just watch a YouTube video on how to do it.

I'm honestly hoping these new services for a quick death and shit goes back to Netflix again. I hardly have time to watch my Netflix shows anymore anyway. It's nice to have it always subbed though.
 

astroturfing

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,544
Suomi Finland
I'm not surprised. Too many companies all fighting for their own piece of the pie sectioning off all the content once again was bound to recreate the issues that contributed to the rise of streaming in the first place.

There's just too damn many subscription services now, and none of them on their own are worth subscribing to.

spot on.

right now i want to start watching The Expanse, finally. i looked in Netflix where i thought it was supposed to be, and nope. then i check Amazon Prime because i thought maybe it moved there, nope. and of course it's not on the other two streaming services i have access to either, HBO Nordic and Viaplay.

so where the fuck is it?? such fucking bullshit.

also i wanted to watch the new Trump/Russia documentary Active Measures, where is it??? absolutely nowhere. maybe it's on Hulu or whatever (a service not available in Finland afaik).

i want them all to fail to be quite honest, nothing but a goddamn hassle.
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,461
I think people are perfectly comfortable subscribing to multiple streaming services (but not TOO many), but the perceived value has to be high enough. If you subbed to 3 services lets say at 9.99 each, that comes to 30 bucks. Which is a lot lower than a decent TV/cable subscription. The problem comes in when 1) a lot of people haven't completely cut the chord yet so they're still paying for some form of TV service and 2) people need more than 1 or 2 shows or so to spend that 9.99, otherwise they'll just pirate it.

Netflix spends a shitton on original content and there always seems to be new stuff coming out so it's an easy commit to the dollars. Some of the others are kind of stretching it...and the more that pop up the more stretching there will be. And to think giants like Apple and Disney are about to launch theirs. I only hope they're as committed as Netflix when it comes to investing in them. Though quality does beat quantity but there's a way to have both.

The future of these to me seems similar to music where it seems like apple and Spotify own the entire thing and you can get basically everything on the two.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,649
I like to just buy shows on Vudu/Amazon, but lately they haven't been posting them until 24 hours after air. Like what's the point? I totally understand why people pirate stuff because they can just download it an hour after it airs. I end up just pretending stuff airs on Thursday night instead of Wednesday, but it's still pretty frustrating.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,811
Canada
I pay for Netflix, Crunchyroll, and Amazon Prime Video.

If it's not on any of those, I'll find it online, but I always check first... Sometimes I'll even rent from Google Play/Playstation Network, but I'm already paying for services, and I already hardly use Amazon Prime Video so I'm not going to add another subscription to something I use once in a while.

I miss rental stores.