Obviously,
I honestly thought this could be what people meant lol
The utter lack of female alts for Hero in Super Smash Bros. is downright appalling.
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I honestly thought this could be what people meant lol
Sakurai's additions reflect the industry (which is the problem). He's always prioritizing the faces of the series, often going by the one who's present in most promotional material.
It's why boy Villager, Corrin and Robin are the default, while girl WFT and Inkling are the default.
Honestly, what female 3rd party characters have a chance of making it into the last 2 DLC slots? Tomb Raider? People will say monster hunter, but does that even count considering that's from a "make your own character" series that, unlike FEA and FEF, have no default models?
Dragon Quest is a special case. That series will always first and foremost be a game designed for the Japanese audience. They'll sooner just stop bringing them outside Japan than listen to the Western audience in regards to the series.
If you intend play it someday I hope you enjoy it :) DQ3 is awesome.
OP
OP
Incorrect. X and IX have female Alta yet are male in the Final Smash.
Also, I do not see how this is being blown out of proportion. The statements are that Ultimate has a generally low % of female characters and that it's personally incredibly disappointing that female Alta are absent
Going off that logic, female Corrin should be the default.
The only reason she isn't is because male Corrin was the default in Smash 4 and their ordering in the character select screen was determined well before the marketing for the game got underway.
OP
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KOS-MOS literally is a playable character in Xenoblade Chronicles 2.
A Touhou character if they want to do an indie rep. Shantae is another possibility.
I can't think of any 3rd party female reps to put in as the last 2 dlc slots beside...Lara Croft and 2B tbh ._.
What other MAjor female 3rd party characters are there that could be in smash
Hell even Nintendo what other game from them has a female main protagonist ? Xenoblade 2? But she's like your weapon <.<. Already have too many FE characters too. They need to create more ips with a female lead .
Maybe the Astral Chain chick
What other MAjor female 3rd party characters are there that could be in smash
Hell even Nintendo what other game from them has a female main protagonist ? Xenoblade 2? But she's like your weapon <.<. Already have too many FE characters too. They need to create more ips with a female lead .
Maybe the Astral Chain chick
I also maintain that if Resident Evil got a character it's not gonna be Jill and anyone expecting that is gonna be disappointed.
Here's the thing, when you start adding "iconic third party gaming characters" and move on from pulling from Nintendo's pockets, you'll end up with a pretty big selection of mostly male characters because of the industry being very male focused, especially in the past when characters got their fame. The only woman in the game from them is Bayonetta, and she basically got a pass over "requirements" solely due to her status as a quasi-Nintendo character.
They had options for lead characters from Nintendo games like Elma, Lip, Yuri, a stylist, Ayumi, Mach Rider, Bubbles, etc. But now they have to compete with bigger characters and end up losing chances, people start saying they aren't worthy with this competition. Base Smash 4 actually was trying to fix this problem: they separated Sheik and Zelda + Samus and ZSS into two different characters each, and added Rosalina, Palutena, Wii Fit Trainer and Lucina as new characters. It was an addition of 6 slots in comparison to Brawl.
In DQ's case I think the lack of outfits boils down to them choosing instead to make 4 models and not wanting to do 2 additional more for Sofia and Erdrick.
They had options for lead characters from Nintendo games like Elma, Lip, Yuri, a stylist, Ayumi, Mach Rider, Bubbles, etc. But now they have to compete with bigger characters and end up losing chances, people start saying they aren't worthy with this competition. Base Smash 4 actually was trying to fix this problem: they separated Sheik and Zelda + Samus and ZSS into two different characters each, and added Rosalina, Palutena, Wii Fit Trainer and Lucina as new characters. It was an addition of 6 slots in comparison to Brawl.
In DQ's case I think the lack of outfits boils down to them choosing instead to make 4 models and not wanting to do 2 additional more for Sofia and Erdrick.
I mean, Bethesda does have Youngblood coming out...
(Kidding... But not entirely)
Does she? I'm not sure girl Corrin takes precedence over boy Corrin in promotional stuff (hers are also more fanservice-y).
It would probably be Leon because of the immense popularity of 4 and now Re2 Remake
I was trying to think of possible candidates for the last dlc slots and like... I'm coming up short. People throwing around Jill, but I feel like they'd put Leon in first (remember when RE4 was GC exclusive for like 2 days before they announced the PS2 port with more content?). I was thinking of Tales (why they ain't get a rep yet is beyond me), but that'll definitely be Lloyd, most likely. I would love Lara Croft. Jade from Beyond good and evil would be amazing but there's like what, a -50 % chance of that. A lead character from fatal frame?
I played the game and got her, I know. I'm just not excited whatsoever. At least I understood why DQ Hero was a big deal.
I wonder if female main characters didn't get in because of their height sizes since DQ3 and DQ4 female's sizes were significantly shorter than male version. Also they are more slimmer (at least Dragon Quest 4 FMC.) That would make it harder for the team to balance the characters' alts around since you have to create new hotbox for shorter characters overall. However, I would be open for echo fighter, Heroines.
Look at those pictures for the example.
Resident Evil's Jill Valentine and Tomb Raider's Lara Croft.
I have seen people suggesting Tracer but I don't really want her in because I really fear that Sakurai would make her really annoying and broken to fight against with her gimmick how she would reverse her damages back to what she had few seconds ago which would allows her to have more cut-throating aggressive gameplay.
If she don't have that mechanic then I would be all open to her inclusion.
Look at those pictures for the example.
Resident Evil's Jill Valentine and Tomb Raider's Lara Croft.
I have seen people suggesting Tracer but I don't really want her in because I really fear that Sakurai would make her really annoying and broken to fight against with her gimmick how she would reverse her damages back to what she had few seconds ago which would allows her to have more cut-throating aggressive gameplay.
If she don't have that mechanic then I would be all open to her inclusion.
Yeah, I would love for Ada, Jill or Claire in Smash but if a Resident character makes it...it´s gonna be Leon.
It's a little weird seeing people complain of no female alt's for Hero while simultaneously stating that their concern is with Smash representation of women fighters AND dismissing all the female alt costumes as being... alt costumes.
List time! Includes available and announced DLC.
Female Mains (Default Costume):
Samus Aran
Zero Suit Samus
Dark Samus
Zelda
Shiek
Peach
Daisy
Rosalina (of Rosalina & Luma)
Jigglypuff
Nana (of Ice Climbers)
Lucina
Palutena
Wii Fit Trainer
Bayonetta
Isabelle
Inkling
Mii Gunner
Kazooie (of Banjo & Kazooie)
Female Mains (Alt. Costumes):
Wendy O. Koopa
Pikachu Libre
Pokémon Trainer
Robin
Corrin
Villager
Spiky Pichu
Mii Brawler
Mii Swordfighter
Overall, that covers 27 out of 80 available/announced fighters. I don't know, seems to me that Smash representation of women fighters is in good shape.
List time! Includes available and announced DLC.
Female Mains (Default Costume):
Samus Aran
Zero Suit Samus
Dark Samus
Zelda
Shiek
Peach
Daisy
Rosalina (of Rosalina & Luma)
Jigglypuff
Nana (of Ice Climbers)
Lucina
Palutena
Wii Fit Trainer
Bayonetta
Isabelle
Inkling
Mii Gunner
Kazooie (of Banjo & Kazooie)
Female Mains (Alt. Costumes):
Wendy O. Koopa
Pikachu Libre
Pokémon Trainer
Robin
Corrin
Villager
Spiky Pichu
Mii Brawler
Mii Swordfighter
Overall, that covers 27 out of 80 available/announced fighters. I don't know, seems to me that Smash representation of women fighters is in good shape.
Is Kazooie not enough for female representation? She's clearly doing most of the work in that moveset.
/s
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I can't think of any 3rd party female reps to put in as the last 2 dlc slots beside...Lara Croft and 2B tbh ._.
What other MAjor female 3rd party characters are there that could be in smash
Hell even Nintendo what other game from them has a female main protagonist ? Xenoblade 2? But she's like your weapon <.<. Already have too many FE characters too. They need to create more ips with a female lead .
Maybe the Astral Chain chick
Here's a list of leading third party female characters who should have more than 1% chance of getting in:
- Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
- 2B (Nier Auto)
- Terra Branford (if they feel like inserting another FF character not from 7)
- Arle Nadja (Puyo Puyo)
- Jill Valentine (Resident Evil. Honestly the one with the highest chance on this list. She at least has two main starring roles under her belt, including the very first RE)
- Amaterasu (Okami)
- Shion Uzuki (Xenosaga, although KOS-MOS is widely accepted to be the face of the series)
- Shantae
That's about it, really. Anything else is probably too obscure to count (heck, I'm sure most people here don't know who Arle is despite her existing since the 80's). Half of the list above wouldn't be able to induce hype.
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Jessica or Alena would have been some awesome "deep cut" additions. I'm hoping they at least get represented by spirits.
And I'm still holding out for Lara as a dlc character.
For DQ 4 female main character it has more to do with her design than anything else. The Cero board is now more strict towards designs that look like they are wearing underwear, even if tamed otherwise. Sakurai has even brought this up where he was annoyed with the amount of changes needed to keep the game on a Cero A rating.
An example from another series is DQ8 where many of Jessica's outfits were changed in 3DS rereleased.
3DS version:
PS2 version:
Personallly I dunno how they'd solve this without resorting to echoes like Lucina and Marth (older female MCs tend to be shorter in official art). And lord knows everyone would be pissed at more sword fighters.
Though I wouldn't say the exclusion is "appealing", I was hoping they found a way to do it.
Though I wouldn't say the exclusion is "appealing", I was hoping they found a way to do it.
Nana can easily be switched to be the lead Ice Climber. I don't think there's actually a lead Ice Climber to begin with. What an odd thing to say.
It's highly likely that a big factor here would be Square Enix's creative control. Just look at Cloud compared to other characters.
Kazooie is half of the playable character. A lot of the moves involve her, so I don't know why she gets dismissed. Also, Ice Climbers are a duo, and Nana can be the main too.
Kazooie is half of the playable character. A lot of the moves involve her, so I don't know why she gets dismissed. Also, Ice Climbers are a duo, and Nana can be the main too.
For DQ 4 female main character it has more to do with her design than anything else. The Cero board is now more strict towards designs that look like they are wearing underwear, even if tamed otherwise. Sakurai has even brought this up where he was annoyed with the amount of changes needed to keep the game on a Cero A rating.
An example from another series is DQ8 where many of Jessica's outfits were changed in 3DS rereleased.
3DS version:
PS2 version:
That's actually a good point. It didn't occurred to me that CERO could be the reason why the alt hasn't happened. I wonder if It could be potentially same scenario that prevented rumored Joker's Jane alt costume?
Tracer is a good option. She's incredibly popular and the face of a huge franchise.
I mean, Popo is the lead Ice Climber by default. Nana just mirrors what Popo does & you have no direct control over her (again, by default).
- Maybe Lara Croft, but I'm not sure if they'd double-up on Square-Enix after adding DQ Hero.
- Same applies to 2B, but she also has the issue of never appearing on a Nintendo system before.
- The Astral Chain Sister has two problems.
- She's from a new, unproven IP. Sakurai is typically gun-shy when it comes to those (just ask Pikmin, Splatoon, & more recently, ARMS).
- The brother would probably be the default.
Her problem is the same as 2B's (never appeared on a Nintendo system before). I actually almost included her in my list of potential female fighters to include in Smash for the thread I worked on months ago.
What are you basing this off of? Kazooie looks pretty damn crucial to the moveset imo. She's the badass of the two.
She is, but... There's basically no situation where she gets added that they I wouldn't rather they just have put Rex/Pyra or Elma instead. She's really not that important of a character and there are better "xeno" series choices to be had.
I guess it's hard for me to care for a game that never even got an EU release though.
Alts aren't a replacement for default characters (default characters are the ones who get top billing on the roster. they're the ones that appear more often in merch/promotional material. The very fact that 'girls' are considered as alternates or secondary while boys are the default/main is a huge problem on its own) but alts are also better than -literally nothing-. It's not weird at all for people to complain about the lack of alts here, or complaining about 11 dudes being on the Final Smash, while still not considering alts the same thing as a default character.
You don't need to add technicalities for male representation in smash. You don't need to start counting alts hidden behind the roster, characters that are secondary to their counterpart or go "this pikachu doesn't have a heart tail!!" to inflate the numbers. That's why alts obviously aren't the same as main characters with a roster spot. (And I mean, if you count Wendy you're literally adding six other dudes to the roster. You can't point to the 1 girl alt out of 8 and say that 'covers' the character)
Yes, it would, as Jessica also had her bunny outfit changed.
3DS version:
PS2 version:
Alt costumes are inherently less important then the main one.
The fact that DQ didn't even get that much is what makes it feel especially egregious.
