It's exacerbated by the fact that a lot of modern hardware tries to either "hide" the folder structure (I love my iPhone, but they are real weird about just digging through the files directly) or are overly verbose with it (I had to use a link recently that was a direct URL to an AWS S3 bucket. I actually had to type it out manually, as its as written on a paper document. Anyone familiar is aware that those URLs look pretty wild).Not surprised. A lot of people don't like learning things unless they absolutely have to. Even if it involves something they use every day.
it's just odd to me to not create some folders. You can still search. Search PLUS folders is great.
If you have multiple ongoing projects or resources you have to access on a regular basis folders just make sense. Like you have 30 fonts you can choose from at any given time but your not going to sit there and remember every name right? Just go to the font folder.
Just a generic example, doesn't have to be fonts.
It's exacerbated by the fact that a lot of modern hardware tries to either "hide" the folder structure (I love my iPhone, but they are real weird about just digging through the files directly) or are overly verbose with it (I had to use a link recently that was a direct URL to an AWS S3 bucket. I actually had to type it out manually, as its as written on a paper document. Anyone familiar is aware that those URLs look pretty wild).
Not just by year, but RAW or post processed. AFAIK, none of these image apps know how to distinguish something so simple.
If you want to take a bunch of photos to store on the cloud and almost never look at them again and have them auto-stored, sure, but I don't think this is simple with a DSLR.
Guys, the point is not file/folder structure illiteracy... its computing illiteracy in general. Older generations weren't exposed much to IT, and the newer generations are used to things working automagically. Millennials got the goldilocks zone of growing up with tech and needing to figure out how things work, how to troubleshoot, and self help their way into technical literacy. I damn near became an IT professional by virtue of being an enthusiast PC gamer. Barely kidding.
Not sure I know what you mean.What I mean is that everything is searchable by content. The file name is insignificant for most use cases.
That's wild but makes sense. Physical fast typing gonna be a skill that dies with millenials lol
It was less a commentary on the importance of file directory mastery and more about the problem with conditioning ourselves to let computer algorithms do our thinking for us. People who are conditioned from a young age for an AI to make their decisions are going to be more susceptible to "grooming."Yup, living that cloud life. Companies have shown just enough competency for being able to not lose your files that people implicitly trust them to store everything and keep it forever with 24/7 access.
We're certainly in agreement on the social media part. Though I think these things are only tangentially related, as for normal users, meticulously maintained hierarchical file structures are not really necessary for normal computer operation. But basic competency for accessing frequently used storage repositories SHOULD be, at bare minimum. Especially for engineering students.
Well they aren't going to have the experience I had, which was getting a PC without internet and having to engineer your own fun - ie thumbing through every nook and cranny of your PC on the hunt for something fun, interesting or novel. A program, a demo file, a way to clear up space, whatever.
I read a similar article some time ago about the same kids not being good 'at internet' - they don't have websites they visit for various functions, they just use apps.
Guys, the point is not file/folder structure illiteracy... its computing illiteracy in general. Older generations weren't exposed much to IT, and the newer generations are used to things working automagically. Millennials got the goldilocks zone of growing up with tech and needing to figure out how things work, how to troubleshoot, and self help their way into technical literacy. I damn near became an IT professional by virtue of being an enthusiast PC gamer. Barely kidding.
Ugh. In the late 90s I had a year of typing and also comp sci my senior year.I went to high school 04-07 and I never had a computer or typing class. This was Suburban Long Island, NY.
You run spotify, apple music or youtube music where you don't manage the music yourself. You open the app, scroll down to or search the artist you want and it'll spit out the popular songs/albums, a few radio stations involving the artist or playlists with similar music. If they don't see what they want they'll scroll down until they do or search again. Any songs they like in particular will get marked and fall into a liked songs bucket any playlists they make fall under a playlists option. That's as far as their interaction goes and all that is done within the context of the music app.
They've never had to deal with moving 20 mp3's from the C:\Users\User\Downloads folder into a D:\My Music\ folder with 500 other mp3's, nor have they needed to organise their collection of 50000 mp3's by artist/album manually. They've never have had to dive into C:\Users\User\appdata\roaming\spotify\files and delete hordes of weirdly named files to free up room as the apps manage space for them. If they want to share a song, the apps generate links, if they want to use a song in another app, there's integration. Heck even in installing any of the apps they aren't given a choice of where it goes.
It's ultimately where the disconnect is, these kids would 100% understand the idea of folders once explained to them but applying that to a computer as a whole is another step.
Ugh. In the late 90s I had a year of typing and also comp sci my senior year.
I understand that people do less file management. My point was that the concept of content being organized in a hierarchical tree and navigating that content through a UI is still pervasive. Even if you can avoid it in your music app, I think it is very difficult to completely avoid it.
Beyond just software design, it is a reflection of how we organize things in the physical world. If I had to give someone instructions on how to retrieve my vacuum cleaner, I'd tell them to go to my building, then to my apartment, then to my front hall, then to the closet.
So I don't think the fact that files on a computer are organized and navigated in a similar way ought to blow anyone's mind. If you don't know the exact mechanics of how to move files between folders, that's fine, but you should at least get the concept.
Bit of hubris here. Takes quite a few assumptions to make a statement like this. I imagine many adults said the same thing to themselves 20 years ago.To be fair I fully expect there to be neurological interfaces to computers in about 20 years.
But yeah, and it is weird how us increasingly older folks know more than younger generations. Isn't it supposed to be the opposite?
Bit of hubris here. Takes quite a few assumptions to make a statement like this. I imagine many adults said the same thing to themselves 20 years ago.
I understand that people do less file management. My point was that the concept of content being organized in a hierarchical tree and navigating that content through a UI is still pervasive. Even if you can avoid it in your music app, I think it is very difficult to completely avoid it.
Beyond just software design, it is a reflection of how we organize things in the physical world. If I had to give someone instructions on how to retrieve my vacuum cleaner, I'd tell them to go to my building, then to my apartment, then to my front hall, then to the closet.
So I don't think the fact that files on a computer are organized and navigated in a similar way ought to blow anyone's mind. If you don't know the exact mechanics of how to move files between folders, that's fine, but you should at least get the concept.
It's a bad thing for the case shown in the article though. Maybe a random person that only checks pictures and music in their device won't need it but for anything more complex or vague than that and you'll have a problem.
Also students in an engineering class not knowing basics about file systems is a failure in education.
How does that work for more mundane stuff?You were stating that you need to remember filenames. My point is that isn't as needed when you can search for the content directly.
For example, if I'm searching for a photo I don't look it up by filename, I can look it up by who was in it, the time of year, location...
Right? How does one depend on such a slow search to retrieve filesWin 10's search is so bad I almost can't believe this could be true.
Yeah, I don't know how to make my own shoes either, grandpa.
This isn't a bad thing, it's just a different thing. When kids don't know how to do "lol so basic" stuff, it's because they weren't taught it, or didn't need to learn it. Some will need to learn it later for a bit, then the world will change and the rest won't.
Now that I think about it I remember back when I was in college one of my professors just kind of assumed that we all knew how to use command line and strongly dissuaded the use of GUI interfaces for file management because it doesn't automatically leave records so it makes it harder to troubleshoot. I think he also said things like it being closer to the core of a computer so it being something that everyone that uses a computer should know how to use.
Originally I did find people not understanding how to use folders pretty strange, but reading over the thread it feels like it parallels that quite a bit so I wonder if it isn't that strange after all. Just another step in how things change across generations.
How does that work for more mundane stuff?
plus it relies on those people enabling the person labeling, right?