The way we talk about China

[Tsuyu]

The thing about international institutions are they are founded by the West and set up in a framework that's largely in their interest.

At a political level, the West still dominates global decision-making through minority control of the central banking system (Bank of International Settlements), IMF, World Bank, Security Council and other institutions of global governance. The G8 (now G7) represent less than 15% of world population, yet have over 60% of its income. 80% of the permanent members of the UN Security Council represent white Western states, 60% from Europe. The West has veto power in the World Bank, IMF and WTO and regulates global monetary policy through the Bank of International Settlements (BIS). By tradition, the head of the World Bank is always a US citizen, nominated by the US President, and the IMF is a European. Although the rest of the world now has a majority in many international institutions, it does not have the political power to reject decisions by the Western minority.

I really don't see how people in the West are outraged by this perceived bias of institutions favoring China when

1) Every member participates in a set of framework that benefits the then existing superpowers.

2) By design, China can't rival Japan + West in term of power in those institutions.

It reeks of projection and is no difference trying to sell the rest of the world Huawei / Tik Tok / Grindr etc are spying apparatus threatening national security when your products consist of Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Tinder etc

This is not just about China, eventually the other developing nations like India etc will grow economically.

I believe in democracy but I don't believe in the existing order and I often question people who are selling this facade if they were actually concerned about equality outside of their borders along with the historical context how we end up here in the first place.

The better analogy would be think of how rigged things are, favoring the 1% in a developed country. Then, realize said country is 1% of the world.

 

[purplemonkey111]

Trump, GOP go all-in on anti-China strategy

...so...when should we expect to be rounded up and put in camps again? Before November or after the election?

 

[Pet]

Trump, GOP go all-in on anti-China strategy

...so...when should we expect to be rounded up and put in camps again? Before November or after the election?

Click to shrink...

I'm not worried because I'm of Taiwanese origin so I'll be fine. /s

In all seriousness though, until there's flat out war there will probably be no camps.

Also, the Supreme Court chided Korematsu v US in their 2019 case. I read the decision brief that said that what happened in Korematsu was wrong, even though I honestly don't get how that overturns Korematsu the way Wikipedia seems to imply. (Wouldn't we need something a bit more pointed?)

 

[samoyed]

It reeks of projection and is no difference trying to sell the rest of the world Huawei / Tik Tok / Grindr etc are spying apparatus threatening national security when your products consist of Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Tinder etc

This is not just about China, eventually the other developing nations like India etc will grow economically.

I believe in democracy but I don't believe in the existing order and I often question people who are selling this facade if they were actually concerned about equality outside of their borders along with the historical context how we end up here in the first place.

The better analogy would be think of how rigged things are, favoring the 1% in a developed country. Then, realize said country is 1% of the world.

Click to shrink...

This this this. You'll get no love of the PRC from me but I roll my eyes whenever I see Americans fear monger about the social credit system. Any Western news article about it is selling a propagandized version of it and a numerical score already rules your life, we call it FICO. I don't like either the modern credit score system or the PRC's social credit system but to pretend society isn't already judging you based on arbitrary numbers is laughable. Numbers rule your life, even in the "free world", your FICO, your GPA, your bank balance, etc. But all of these are accepted as "normal" as a matter-of-course while the PRC social credit is a gross violation of democratic principles and cannot be suffered to exist.

Hah.

 

[Chikor]

I'm not worried because I'm of Taiwanese origin so I'll be fine. /s

In all seriousness though, until there's flat out war there will probably be no camps.

Also, the Supreme Court chided Korematsu v US in their 2019 case. I read the decision brief that said that what happened in Korematsu was wrong, even though I honestly don't get how that overturns Korematsu the way Wikipedia seems to imply. (Wouldn't we need something a bit more pointed?)

Click to shrink...

I don't expect actual camps, but I think you will see very similar things to what Muslims experienced in the US after 9/11.
It's already starting.

I would also imagine you'll get a lot of people deported and immigration heavily restricted if go into a full cold war.

p.s.
I would not trust the supreme court to stop anything though, especially when "national security" flag is waved aggressively. I also think the war on terror is instructive here.

 

[Pet]

I was watching Madam Secretary on Netflix, and there was this one mildly Sorkin-ese speech that resonated with me.

In the last 48 hours, I saw my hometown bombed and my childhood mosque investigated. I've been accused of plotting against my country. I've been mentally and physically harassed. That alone is bad enough.​

​

But the worst thing.. is the grief that my own colleagues and countryman gave me, not just about my donation [to the childhood mosque], but about why I won't say more to defend myself. So, here it is. The big reveal. The answer to what you've all been wondering.​

​

Of course, I'm just as horrified as everyone that a deranged man blew up a coffee shop. I mean, how could anyone ever doubt that? But i'm not saying anything, publicly or otherwise, because I shouldn't have to. My condemnation should just be a given. When a white man shoots up a black church, no one demands that white men across the country denounce the attack. It's understood that the perpetrator is on the fringe, that every American decries the tragedy. But, somehow, when an Islamic extremist commits an atrocity, every Muslim is implicated. ​

​

All my years of public service, every ounce of decency I've ever shown, is erased by other people's fear and revenge. ​

For me, why do we, Western Asians who grow up believing in democracy and free speech, and grow up knowing that human rights abuse is horrific, feel the need to defend ourselves because of a few bad actors?

I had someone accuse me of being pro-PRC (?!?!?). I work really fucking hard to continue the practice of democracy. Every election, I vote. Every election, I am at the polls, volunteering as an election worker. Election season, I am out there, canvassing not only for my preferred candidates, but also in the "get out the vote" campaigns. I fucking knock on people's doors for hours, I walk around to each house in my assigned neighborhoods... and I'm out there, doing what I can. I also volunteer at food banks, at VITA (tax programs for the low income, etc.) I care, a lot, about public service AND the concept of "freedom" and "democracy" as far as what it means to me. I do my best to put in the work for my ideals and my beliefs. I don't only sit around all day on the computer and furiously type angry or smug retorts. (I mean, I do that too a lot, no lies there.)

But, why do I HAVE to even bring that all up? Unless I literally say that I support PRC policies, why the hell is it my burden to prove that I'm not? More than that, if I'm expressing my sincere belief that giving in the to pressure of distinguish myself as "not" one of those "bad" people is internalizing the racism pushed upon us, how is that the same as defending atrocities?

Andrew Yang, a presidential candidate, was criticized by a lot of people for writing this article about how to combat Asian discrimination. (The article is here.)

He wrote, quoting from the article:

We Asian Americans need to embrace and show our American-ness in ways we never have before. We need to step up, help our neighbors, donate gear, vote, wear red white and blue, volunteer, fund aid organizations, and do everything in our power to accelerate the end of this crisis. We should show without a shadow of a doubt that we are Americans who will do our part for our country in this time of need. ​

He was criticized because he is insinuating that it's OUR burden to "prove" we're American. That the default assumption we should accept is that we are "one of the bad ones," until we can prove otherwise.

And that does make me angry. Again, I already DO all the things he said we should do. But, I don't do it to prove to nonAsian Americans that I'm an American. THAT SHOULD BE A GODDAMN GIVEN. I do those things because I believe that if you truly believe in America and democracy, that you will WORK and that your ideals should translate into action. Again, it should be a goddamn given that I am American. It should be a goddamn given that I stand for those ideals. I shouldn't need to have to prove any of this shit.

Because those are my beliefs, I will say it, and I will tell anyone who perpetuates the idea that we are "bad" until we prove we are good what I think of that.

Also, may I once again remind everyone here that AMERICAN BORN CITIZENS were rounded up and put into camps because they were NOT given the benefit of the doubt that they are American. They were assumed to be one of the "bad" ones. It didn't matter. You think that they spared the citizens who voted and donated and helped? And the idea that this has somehow changed in 2020? Honestly, if you believe that it's different nowdays, you're deluded.

Oh, and yeah, I actually do understand why someone may give in to be one of the good ones, if it keeps them safe. Chinese Americans wore badges to distinguish themselves from Japanese Americans.

Chinese Americans, fueled by anger at Japanese aggression in their home country, their American patriotism, and their desire to be seen as American patriots, were, consciously or not, complicit in the persecution of their Japanese neighbors.​

​

The internment of the Japanese was more or less ignored by the Chinese community, with the exception of a few individuals. In fact, Chinese periodicals also participated in spreading the belief that Japanese Americans were guilty of treason or aiding Japan .​

They were willing to throw pan-Asian solidarity away to protect themselves. I don't blame them for that, I really don't. I don't blame people who do it now. I get it. Sacrifice is harder than action.

But, imho, if you willingly and continually engage in that sort of behavior, you have no fucking legs to stand on if you claim you care about anti-Asian racism, over someone who doesn't engage in that behavior. And, you don't need to stop. But, own it.

This reminds me a lot of chicks I see who are all too happy to be "not like other girls." Like, yeah, you can say that and still believe you're a feminist, but when someone tells you that your mindset/attitude of wanting to make it known you're "not like other girls" is hurting the very concept of feminism (equality)... maybe you should think about that. Maybe you should think about the insinuations that you're perpetuating, willingly or not, by distinguishing yourself as one of the "good" woman, not like all those other negative, bad women. & if your desire to personally benefit from being "not like other girls" wins in the end, at the very least, own it instead if trying to justify to yourself why it's not hurting feminism.

I don't expect actual camps, but I think you will see very similar things to what Muslims experienced in the US after 9/11.
It's already starting.

I would also imagine you'll get a lot of people deported and immigration heavily restricted if go into a full cold war.

p.s.
I would not trust the supreme court to stop anything though, especially when "national security" flag is waved aggressively. I also think the war on terror is instructive here.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, unfortunately, I think what you're saying is very likely to occur. The violence against Asians hasn't risen to the same level as what brown people generally experienced after 9/11, in case anyone thinks I am trying to compare suffering, but I think the general sentiment stands.

After 9/11, a lot of Muslim Americans DID feel the need to "show"/"prove" they were "actual Americans." I get why. I don't blame them for feeling that way, and I don't blame them for doing what they did. I blame everyone else who made them feel they had to act that way.

 

[papermoon]

For me, why do we, Western Asians who grow up believing in democracy and free speech, and grow up knowing that human rights abuse is horrific, feel the need to defend ourselves because of a few bad actors?

Click to shrink...

We don't. We don't have to justify or defend ourselves in the slightest. My Americanism is a given, and fuck anyone who thinks otherwise. What Andrew Yang said was bullshit.

More than that, if I'm expressing my sincere belief that giving in the to pressure of distinguish myself as "not" one of those "bad" people is internalizing the racism pushed upon us, how is that the same as defending atrocities?

Click to shrink...

You labeled an Asian who didn't wholesale support the PRC as "trying to be one of the good ones." It's my sincere belief that that's wrong and unwarranted. You're erroneously pegging people who aren't running interference for the PRC as Uncle Chans. You're trying to equate the lack of support for the PRC as race-betrayal and, even worse, as collaborating with racists. It's a sad, cheap shot. It's a lie. And it's a common tactic of pro-PRC elements who can't defend the wrongs and atrocities committed by the PRC, so they try to silence outrage by trying to dress up legitimate criticism as Uncle Channery.

You bring up WWII era Japanese Americans. The internment of Japanese Americans was an obscene evil. It happened because they existed, not because they embraced an ideology. Japanese Amercians were not caping for Imperial Japan - allies of the Third Reich.

Therefore, if Asian Americans today aren't repping PRC and PRC propaganda, then that doesn't mean in the slightest way that we're betraying pan-Asian solidarity. Anyone who pushes that fallacy is promoting PRC propaganda, and it needs to be called out. We are vulnerable to racism because we exist, not because of what we believe. This messy blending of trying to co-opt the battle against anti-Asian racism as a way to silence voices troubled by destructive acts by the PRC is shady as fuck.

Being pro-PRC also includes those who do their part to propagate their propaganda. What the PRC wants is just enough silence and distraction so they can go about their ethnic, environmental, territorial, and financial attacks in Asia without too much negative attention. Those who aid and abet them in this PRC publicity/silencing mission are pro-PRC.

Because calling attention to the fucked up things the PRC does is one of the ways that PRC might actually change for the better. They used to lie and be in total denial about how bad the pollution was in Beijing. Then, the U.S. embassy started publishing the daily air quality numbers in Beijing, and - all of a sudden - the PRC adjusted. Public exposure of PRC bad acts is a possible deterrent. Even if it doesn't work completely, when you're dealing with atrocities and crimes against humanity like the PRC mucks about in, talking about that shit is the least we can do.

So, because a PRC-sympathizer is savvy enough to not outright deny PRC atrocities on this forum anymore: it doesn't mean they're not disseminating PRC fallacies or trying to diffuse, distract, minimize the bad that the PRC does. Being pro-PRC is also acting as if economic disincentives and calling attention to the genocide in Xinjiang is futile or even horrifyingly unethical/immoral (because oh no, it'll slow Chinese economic growth). It's flinging whataboutism as a distraction and cover up. It's labeling people as equivalent to race traitors because they aren't cheering on the PRC. It's covering up attention re: the abuse and atrocities the PRC commits against Asians and its own citizens as merely white racism or a flare up of white people's insecurities.

Asians who refuse to do the work of PRC propagandists, who refuse to signal boost that nonsense are not "trying to be one of the good ones." We don't want to stand with the fucked up shit the PRC does or the messaging it does to cover up for that shit. I'm not interested in being "good" or catering to scared white folks.

It's insidious and awful that pro-PRC voices are trying to make defense of the PRC a key tenet of Asian activism. Trust, in the 1940s, Asian Americans activists weren't trying to minimize or soften the evil of the Imperial Japan and the Axis Powers when fighting the separate unique evil of Japanese Americn internment.

 

[jsnepo]

I'm Filipino and I despise the PRC. Their propaganda is spreading already in our country. Duterte being a lapdog isn't helping either.

 

[SushiReese]

Consider the current political climate (internationally and domestically)and family's connection still in China , mainland Chinese oversea tend to be very sensitive to political issues and become reluctant to make many comments online.

 

[Pet]

Maybe someone should make a thread about pro-PRC propaganda and how to recognize it, so people can stop conflating that with the topic of this thread.

Racism is perpetuated when the two things are tied together, and either someone doesn't know or doesn't care, but both are gross.

 

[Raonak]

Anti-chinese propaganda does remind me a lot of anti-muslim propaganda post 9-11. Different values = enemy.

Granted, China's government is pretty fucked, but i'm not really sure how much worse than the US or Russia, they are.
They all seem like different flavors of shit. US loves abusing other countries, China loves abusing it's own citizens.

 

[L Thammy]

They all seem like different flavors of shit. US loves abusing other countries, China loves abusing it's own citizens.

Click to shrink...

US does a fair amount of abusing its own citizens as well.

 

[Pet]

Trump utilizes this sort of easy, coded language as a distraction to blame.

Spoiler

"CHINA!"

Spoiler

Twitter is doing nothing about all of the lies & propaganda being put out by China or the Radical Left Democrat Party. They have targeted Republicans, Conservatives & the President of the United States. Section 230 should be revoked by Congress. Until then, it will be regulated!

Spoiler

"The President has been targeted by Twitter." @MariaBartiromo What about all of the lies and fraudulent statements made by Adam Schiff, and so many others, on the Russian Witch Hunt Plus, Plus, Plus? What about China's propaganda? WHO's mistakes? No flags? @foxandfriendss

 

[Chikor]

Looks like the US is going to try and expel Chinese grad students.

U.S. to Expel Chinese Graduate Students With Ties to China’s Military Schools (Published 2020)

The move is the latest in the Trump administration’s efforts to impose limits on Chinese students. But university officials say the government is paranoid, and that the United States will lose out.

www.nytimes.com

They're saying it's just people with ties to universities that has ties to the military, but I would imagine that's pretty much all universities in China (it's all universities in the US) so that should cover most anyone who got a degree in the mainland.
I would expect some push back from that from universities, but we'll see how this play out.

The Trump administration is also lying out of their teeth there about a bunch of shit, the Chinese government don't select which people can and cannot go to study abroad, China is not the USSR and Chinese people can leave the country, and NYT per usual launder that shit by quoting it as "government officials".

 

[Maligna]

I thought this film critique video about how to write racism in cinema was really good. It deals with a lot of aspects of anti-chinese racism. And even the racism of Chinese people towards others. I can't really explain it as well as the video. But I thought the folks in this thread might be interested in it.

The video maker I think is an Asian Canadian maybe? And he speaks in one part about how he is accused of being pro China or Anti China depending on his videos and sometimes even accused of both for the same video. It must be tough for him right now.

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

I thought this film critique video about how to write racism in cinema was really good. It deals with a lot of aspects of anti-chinese racism. And even the racism of Chinese people towards others. I can't really explain it as well as the video. But I thought the folks in this thread might be interested in it.

The video maker I think is an Asian Canadian maybe? And he speaks in one part about how he is accused of being pro China or Anti China depending on his videos and sometimes even accused of both for the same video. It must be tough for him right now.

Click to shrink...

I put that in spoiler tags, my opinions on that video, since its not really directly relevant to the OP:

Spoiler

I watched this video since it was linked in the Yip Man 4 thread, but I disagree with the creator. The only time they showed that the Chinese are also racist is at the beginning, where they dont like that Bruce Lee takes on foreign students. After that scene it is a barrage of foreign caricatures.
The rich white person who does not want to sign the paper.
The immigration officer also being racist.
The schoolgirl being racist.
The jocks hitting the girl.
The army sergeant being the main racist villain.
The henchman of the army sergeant clearly being mixed blood also being a racist asshat.
The dean of the university wanting to be bribed.

On the other side you just have the Kung Fu masters in the first scene talking about that, which plot point was then forgotten and in the end them being accepting, while the racist villains didnt learn anything.

____________________________________________________________________

On that note though the last part of your post is true and this even happened in this forum and back on Gaf when people were explaining clear Fake stories or stories without any source other than Daily Mail who were being accused of CCP shills, wumao etc.
And it is getting worse and worse. Look at Trumps tweets.

 

[mieumieu]

Looks like the US is going to try and expel Chinese grad students.

U.S. to Expel Chinese Graduate Students With Ties to China’s Military Schools (Published 2020)

The move is the latest in the Trump administration’s efforts to impose limits on Chinese students. But university officials say the government is paranoid, and that the United States will lose out.

www.nytimes.com

They're saying it's just people with ties to universities that has ties to the military, but I would imagine that's pretty much all universities in China (it's all universities in the US) so that should cover most anyone who got a degree in the mainland.
I would expect some push back from that from universities, but we'll see how this play out.

The Trump administration is also lying out of their teeth there about a bunch of shit, the Chinese government don't select which people can and cannot go to study abroad, China is not the USSR and Chinese people can leave the country, and NYT per usual launder that shit by quoting it as "government officials".

Click to shrink...

It's written like that to be flexible in its execution I think. The uni where I earned my bachelor 13 years ago has only 1 defense lab with ties to military according to the ASPI Chinese university tracker, but I still don't feel good about my student visa prospects this year. There'll be probably longer security checks at least.

 

[Chikor]

It's written like that to be flexible in its execution I think. The uni where I earned my bachelor 13 years ago has only 1 defense lab with ties to military according to the ASPI Chinese university tracker, but I still don't feel good about my student visa prospects this year. There'll be probably longer security checks at least.

Click to shrink...

American immigration rules are usually written in a vague enough way that leave quite a bit of leeway in how they're implemented.
I don't think this is done out of an earnest concern that grad students are stealing the secrets of the f-35 or whatever. It's the Trump administration is trying to pick a fight with China. Who the fuck knows how far they are willing to take it.

 

[mieumieu]

American immigration rules are usually written in a vague enough way that leave quite a bit of leeway in how they're implemented.
I don't think this is done out of an earnest concern that grad students are stealing the secrets of the f-35 or whatever. It's the Trump administration is trying to pick a fight with China. Who the fuck knows how far they are willing to take it.

Click to shrink...

Well most graduate students could access to f all of secret info anyway, it's just them picking fights, that's true. And we're the victims :(

 

[Chikor]

Well most graduate students could access to f all of secret info anyway, it's just them picking fights, that's true. And we're the victims :(

Click to shrink...

Same crap that happened with the journalists just a couple of weeks ago.
Big great cold war move to fight foreign propaganda but then it's someone who lived in the US for years and write about food for the BBC or whatever who get screwed.

 

[Pet]

Same crap that happened with the journalists just a couple of weeks ago.
Big great cold war move to fight foreign propaganda but then it's someone who lived in the US for years and write about food for the BBC or whatever who get screwed.

Click to shrink...

What happened?

 

[Chikor]

What happened?

Click to shrink...

Chinese journalists’ lives disrupted by new US visa restrictions

New rules limiting visas will affect all mainland reporters regardless of whether they work for Chinese state media.

www.scmp.com

Decent write up on that. There was an actual website a bunch of Chinese journalists in the US made which is where I got most of my info, but I can't find it now.

 

[denseWorm]

I read this as a lurker, glad to have a chance to comment. I have a tenuous relationship with mainland China at this point. As a teenager in the 00s I lived there for half a decade (in Beijing). I know it's changed a lot since then, and I now live in Japan and am steadily losing all my Mandarin so I have probably relinquished any grasp I had on claims of knowing what it's like there... But I can say that, while I was there, China was indistinguishable from any other 'first world' nation in many ways, and more interesting/fascinating in many others.

My friends, girlfriends, colleagues, teachers, classmates, they were regular people. Chinese people in Beijing in the 00s were doing very exciting things with art and design, entrepreneurship, that would have looked entirely at home in a Melbourne, or London, or whathaveyou. They weren't under the cosh of an oppressive system, they weren't constantly complaining about their governments, they weren't constantly praising their governments. They were too busy living their lives as interesting, unique individuals.

In fact, for the longest time I used to think of myself as an adopted practitioner of the 'Northern Chinese' personality... Straight talk, generous with compliments and honesty, energetic and forward thinking, disinterested in BS. I thought the girl of my dreams was nailed on to be a sharp-mouthed, attitude-dripping, passion filled, arty Beijing'er. Didn't turn out that way, turns out she's Japanese (though she has all those other personality traits)~

What I'm trying to say here is that, based on my experiences there, I never even began to think of the Chinese as some kind of collective, nefarious, tangentially human, politically oppressed group. The idea that 'Chinese' could be a byword for any kind of underhandedness is just ridiculous to me.

If I went back to Beijing now I think I'd find a lot more stress about now much risen living costs, and perhaps a bit more consideration of a slightly more assertive leader, but besides that I am sure I would find just the same enthusiastic, positive and honest people I grew to love when I lived there. I preferred the people of Beijing to people I later met in my homeland of Australia during my later uni years, etc (for one thing physical violence and harsh belittling are probably somewhere in the top 5 potential conflict resolutions for Australians, whereas for the Chinese they're probably somewhere around the 20th option)

So, in sum, Chinese people are people like you (fellow non-Chinese) and I, the ones with a typical 'Northern' personality in particular resonate strongly with me, and any racism towards them as a generalized group mystifies me.

 

[papermoon]

If I went back to Beijing now I think I'd find a lot more stress about now much risen living costs, and perhaps a bit more consideration of a slightly more assertive leader

Click to shrink...

That is some galaxy-level understatement. Xi's aggression, cruelty, and crimes against humanity are an abomination. Compare him to someone like Hu Yaobang, an extraordinary leader and visionary, a man of decency, and integrity. Hu led the CCP in the 1980s. If he and others like him had succeeded in leading the mainland, the PRC today might've approximated being as close to a paradise nation-state as any that have formed on this earth. The PRC doesn't have to be what it is today. What Xi is doing is the worst of being human, and not particularly "Chinese." To paint Xi as occuping the same ethical sphere as other general secretaries of the PRC is one of the biggest slurs against China in this thread.

In fact, for the longest time I used to think of myself as an adopted practitioner of the 'Northern Chinese' personality... Straight talk, generous with compliments and honesty, energetic and forward thinking, disinterested in BS. I thought the girl of my dreams was nailed on to be a sharp-mouthed, attitude-dripping, passion filled, arty Beijing'er. Didn't turn out that way, turns out she's Japanese (though she has all those other personality traits)~

Click to shrink...

Classifying personality types by region is particularly misguided when the whole thesis of this thread is to not stereotype or generalize all folks of Chinese descent as a "type". Hmm. And is this an example of that trope "my gf/wife/partner/girl of my dreams is Chinese/Japanese" I've been reading about so much in this thread?

 

[Billy Awesomo]

I have no love for CCP in general as they've destroyed my culture, my family and taken land that doesn't belong to them. I am American Mongolian, my parents however were born and grew up in Taiwan thanks to my grandparents escaping the communists along with a lot of other Chinese and minority groups during that time point and I myself was born in Ann Arbor Michigan. I have nothing against the Chinese people as I am married to one, but I do take issues with a lot of Chinese trying to claim Mongolia or Tibet as Chinese also. I spent most of my life really hating the Non-Taiwanese Chinese and the CCP thanks to my parents telling me years of horrific stories from the cultural revolution. As I got older though and I learned that Taiwan wasn't really all that great either when it first started out after they had setup shop essentially and some of my anger just sort of became targeted towards Chinese people over all. Up until that point I had never really considered myself asian, always looked at myself as American and for the better of most part I don't think anyone thought any differently of me. By the time I was a senior in high school my feelings towards Chinese people changed and at this point I'd even had quite a bit of asian friends. I think it was around this time I was finally comfortable being considered both Asian and American and my perspective changed. China is a tough subject of discussions mainly because it's such a polarizing nation. For example here in the US when things go wrong it's not super difficult to fact check things or even rage against the system (like now), but in China this is more difficult and if you try to speak out about it you are silenced fairly quickly or called crazy (and in some cases disappeared over night). You don't have to be proud of your country but you should be proud to be who you are. If you're Chinese and want to be proud of your ethnicity go for it nobody will or should shame you for it, Just like if you're a US citizen and you want to be proud of that fact go for it (or really any culture or country or whatever for that matter).

 

[crazillo]

That is some galaxy-level understatement. Xi's aggression, cruelty, and crimes against humanity are an abomination. Compare him to someone like Hu Yaobang, an extraordinary leader and visionary, a man of decency, and integrity. Hu led the CCP in the 1980s. If he and others like him had succeeded in leading the mainland, the PRC today might've approximated being as close to a paradise nation-state as any that have formed on this earth. The PRC doesn't have to be what it is today. What Xi is doing is the worst of being human, and not particularly "Chinese." To paint Xi as occuping the same ethical sphere as other general secretaries of the PRC is one of the biggest slurs against China in this thread.

Classifying personality types by region is particularly misguided when the whole thesis of this thread is to not stereotype or generalize all folks of Chinese descent as a "type". Hmm. And is this an example of that trope "my gf/wife/partner/girl of my dreams is Chinese/Japanese" I've been reading about so much in this thread?

Click to shrink...

Just like any other party, the CCP has many competing factions that struggle for power, resulting in a political landscape that was either more firmly controlled (shou) or relatively relaxed (fang). Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang were liberals who envisioned a different China, though it can be debated where this exactly would have led and what role the CCP would have taken. But even the China I got to know fifteen years ago was a vastly different place from the one I now visit for my research. I was fascinated by the mixture of rapid progression, limited but noticeable room for liberal ideas back in the day, historical awareness (though nationalism was present already, but not as strong as today). NGOs within the system tried to make the country a better place incrementally. The party had even found ways to limit individual power through ten-year tenures and leadership generations. The Xi China is a really different one.

 

[jsnepo]

They all seem like different flavors of shit. US loves abusing other countries, China loves abusing it's own citizens.

Click to shrink...

China is bullying other small countries too.

 

[Raonak]

China is bullying other small countries too.

Click to shrink...

And unless you missed what happened over the weekend, the US abuses its own citizens too.

Same shit, different flavor.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Saying just because one country is shit as a means of silencing criticism is not useful.

It should be that both countries are open to be criticised.

 

[jsnepo]

And the US abuses its own citizens too.

Same shit, different flavor.

Click to shrink...

I don't give a shit about the US when it comes to China.

 

[Billy Awesomo]

And unless you missed what happened over the weekend, the US abuses its own citizens too.

Same shit, different flavor.

Click to shrink...

I think the bigger difference, is that at least in the US those abused citizens have the ability to incite change over period of time. They maybe abused now but they won't be forever. I think that type of sentiment is harder to do in China. Despite being called the "People's Republic" of China there really isn't anything pro people going on there most of the time, sort of like how the Nazi's had "Socialist" in their name title despite having very little to do with socialism (or how the Republicans in this country stopped listening to the states despite the fact they are suppose to be big on state rights and so forth etc...).

 

[Slowsonic]

I think the bigger difference, is that at least in the US those abused citizens have the ability to incite change over period of time. They maybe abused now but they won't be forever. I think that type of sentiment is harder to do in China. Despite being called the "People's Republic" of China there really isn't anything pro people going on there most of the time, sort of like how the Nazi's had "Socialist" in their name title despite having very little to do with socialism (or how the Republicans in this country stopped listening to the states despite the fact they are suppose to be big on state rights and so forth etc...).

Click to shrink...

Agree, American and other western aren't perfect, but the separation of power and freedom of speech are still mostly intact. Where in China everything starts and end with the party. When the will of the ruler work against you, there's no way you can protect yourself, no legislation, no media and no platform. You either beg for mercy or you violently against it and die trying, but rest assured you are on your own either way.

 

[kmfdmpig]

I think one of the key focuses of the thread is that it's important to draw a distinction between China the country or the government of China and the people of China. The US and its massive issues helps support that important point as I suspect quite a lot of Americans don't want to be considered as the same as Trump or the government. Rather than pitting the US vs. China the idea that the people and its government are separate entities is worth keeping in mind.

 

[Candescence]

I think one of the key focuses of the thread is that it's important to draw a distinction between China the country or the government of China and the people of China. The US and its massive issues helps support that important point as I suspect quite a lot of Americans don't want to be considered as the same as Trump or the government. Rather than pitting the US vs. China the idea that the people and its government are separate entities is worth keeping in mind.

Click to shrink...

Ensuring that distinction is made is absolutely essential to communicating actual criticism of the Chinese government. It's the kinda like with criticism of Israel, poorly considered wording can leave one open to accusations of anti-semitism. And in either case, intentionally or unintentionally conflating the government with people who may not even necessarily support said government can easily do more harm than good.

 

[OtterMatic]

Over the past few days with what happening in the US and then having flashback of what happened in HK over the past years because of the images on Twitter and instagram really saddened me.

Then, there are the comments from people like Hu Xijin on twitter. I was pissed because how he was enabling and/or signal boosting racists rhetoric, but my friend calmed me down. I am gonna paraphase his word here: Hu Xijin type of posts showed malicious attempts from certain group to include any conflict in the world just so to argue for their side under the discourse of Sino-US competition.

So, I realize that the best thing to do for me is to ignore those posts since they are polluting and diluting the discourse.

I also realized I have distanced myself from HK over the past few years, intentionally or not. I don't share their values completely anymore, and sometimes disgusted by the rhetoric some people use.

I also found it was apathetic for people to say both the US and CCP abusing their citizens and then distance themselves away from the discourse. Our moral standard should be lowered just because our governments are doing the same thing. Just because other governments doing the same thing doesn't make it ok for CCP doing the same thing.

Sorry about another post about myself again.

 

[Mahonay]

Wrong thread

 

[Mahonay]

.

 

[HMS_Pinafore]

Min Min revealed as ARMS rep in Smash Ultimate

Best reveal trailer. Why she was chosen: Sakurai asked ARMS Producer Kosuke Yabuki who he wanted, as he said "I want Min Min." Sakurai was originally considering Ninjara.

www.resetera.com

Smash needs more black representation, but the amount of Anti Chinese racism that has been going on in this thread is fucking disgusting.

 

[Deleted member 21411]

Min Min revealed as ARMS rep in Smash Ultimate

Best reveal trailer. Why she was chosen: Sakurai asked ARMS Producer Kosuke Yabuki who he wanted, as he said "I want Min Min." Sakurai was originally considering Ninjara.

www.resetera.com

Smash needs more black representation, but the amount of Anti Chinese racism that has been going on in this thread is fucking disgusting.

Click to shrink...

Yeah reading that just shows the same shit different thread. Alot and I mean alot of people that consider themselves "progressive" get racist the very moment it can align with their goals and its fucking disgusting

 

[RealTravisty]

Min Min revealed as ARMS rep in Smash Ultimate

Best reveal trailer. Why she was chosen: Sakurai asked ARMS Producer Kosuke Yabuki who he wanted, as he said "I want Min Min." Sakurai was originally considering Ninjara.

www.resetera.com

Smash needs more black representation, but the amount of Anti Chinese racism that has been going on in this thread is fucking disgusting.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I legitimately feel bad for any Chinese people who are happy about her inclusion. There were a lot less bans handed out than I thought there would be, and as a black person I don't think people should be allowed to say such things just because they didn't get a dark skinned character.

Saying any more will probably get me in trouble, so as always I'll keep my mouth shut.