Karew

Member
Jul 5, 2022
294
The reason people have been flocking to Tiktok is because it genuinely offers a valid alternative to American social media companies that're contributed to what is currently the biggest threat in the US. Because it's not China, let alone what they do with the user data THAT META SELLS TO THEM BTW that's the biggest threat to America. It's the current state of the US that is the problem. To the point that talking with non Americans about US politics can genuinely come off as embarassing because we have to acknowledge headass shit like MTG and Lauren Boebert being elected politicians or the fact that our next election is between a rapist who had no business ever being president in the first place vs. a man who statically is incapable of keeping in touch with the needs of people who're the most affected by the current state of America in spite of his best efforts to do so. This is to say nothing about how much lobbying/borderline bribery affects the politics of the American government even if it's at the expense of the people. Like for instance how the NRA makes donations to specific GOP members. Or how Meta pays politicians to malign competition. Or how people like Tom Cotton are paid to promote genocide.
I don't doubt there are lots people who settle on tiktok as their main social media platform to avoid the sea of nazis and fascists on twitter/facebook/etc. but IMO the major reason is that it's just a waaaaaay better product compared to the dog shit american apps and websites.

We know Meta spends millions to lobby congress to ban tiktok and they'd rather do that than produce a better product.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,763
www.theguardian.com

Revealed: how TikTok censors videos that do not please Beijing

Leak spells out how social media app advances China’s foreign policy aims

Literally got caught red handed my dude
Did you not read that article or notice that it's over 4 years old?

Bytedance said the version of the documents the Guardian has seen was retired in May, before the current protests in Hong Kong began, and that the current guidelines do not reference specific countries or issues.

"In TikTok's early days we took a blunt approach to minimising conflict on the platform, and our moderation guidelines allowed penalties to be given for things like content that promoted conflict, such as between religious sects or ethnic groups, spanning a number of regions around the world," the company said. "As TikTok began to take off globally last year, we recognised that this was not the correct approach, and began working to empower local teams that have a nuanced understanding of each market. As we've grown we've implemented this localised approach across everything from product, to team, to policy development.

They used to control the information on the app but it's gotten far too big and far too global to attempt to do so, (vs. the app they have specifically in China that bows down to the CCP's whims).

Unless you're implying that Tiktok in 2024 is identical to how the app was five years ago, two years after it launched including the way it handled information and way before it exploded to the level of popularity it has now. Because speaking of for example, Tiananmen Square, which is used an example of suppressed information per the guidelines released half a decade ago, there are more than 10 million visible posts about the topic and the ones critical of China are frontloaded. Same with information about the Uyghur genocide. Two things people say Tiktok intentionally suppresses.

We also shouldn't ignore the giant elephant in the room that young Americans are gonna be spending far more time complaining about America being shitty than they are about what's going on in China. Especially on a platform wherein lobbied politicians have trouble spreading that kind of messaging vs. people wanting them to actually do their jobs. And because the average American is far more directly affected by what the US government is doing at any given time especially as MSNN continuously fail the public, even left leaning ones like CNN.

As a side note, it is also important to note that what Tiktok is currently accused of isn't the suppression of information, rather, the accusation is that it's pushing messaging onto the youth, first and foremost Pro-Palestine content.

Because the reality that the youth don't support genocide/war in general is too difficult to handle for the politicians who were already adults when President "You're either with us or against us i'm gonna fight a war and lead the US into a recession" was the choice.
 
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B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,286
I mean that's up to those countries 🤷‍♂️
I mean, he's totally right. All these social media companies are a problem and they all need to be addressed. It's a joke that they're only doing this to tiktok and not everyone.
Did you not read that article or notice that it's over 4 years old?



They USED to control the information on the app but it's gotten far too big and far too global to attempt to do so, (vs. the app have specifically in China). Unless you're implying that Tiktok in 2024 is identical to how the app was five years ago including the way it handled information. Because speaking of for example, Tiananmen Square, there are more than 10 million visible posts about the topic and the ones critical of China are frontloaded.

We also shouldn't ignore the giant elephant in the room that young Americans are gonna be spending far more time complaining about America being shitty than they are about China. Especially on a platform wherein lobbied politicians have trouble spreading that kind of messaging vs. people wanting them to actually do their jobs.

New study reveals TikTok’s spread of COVID-19 misinformation

A new study conducted by PhD student Morgan Lundy, which was recently published in the International Journal of Communication, reveals how TikTok's unique features have been used to spread COVID-19 misinformation. Unlike Twitter, which uses a text format, the micro-video format of TikTok makes...

apnews.com

TikTok search results riddled with misinformation: Report

A U.S. firm that monitors false online claims reports that searches for information about prominent news topics on TikTok are likely to turn up results riddled with misinformation.

www.newsweek.com

How TikTok Became a Hotbed of Brand Misinformation

Videos on TikTok advancing false and misleading claims about prominent consumer brands garnered 57 million views in a NewsGuard analysis

www.bbc.com

Ukraine war: How TikTok fakes pushed Russian lies to millions

The BBC uncovers a vast Russia-based network of fake TikTok accounts pushing disinformation about Ukraine.

More recent, how's that?

Seriously, I agree that they shouldn't be doing this but the argument you're making is just bad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
30,313
Tampa
I think a thing that is getting lost in the weeds is at the end of the day Facebook TwitX, et al are independent private entities whereas TikTok/ByteDance are literally an arm of the Chinese Government for all intents and purposes by their own admission.
 

Whales

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,347
I mean, he's totally right. All these social media companies are a problem and they all need to be addressed. It's a joke that they're only doing this to tiktok and not everyone.

New study reveals TikTok’s spread of COVID-19 misinformation

A new study conducted by PhD student Morgan Lundy, which was recently published in the International Journal of Communication, reveals how TikTok's unique features have been used to spread COVID-19 misinformation. Unlike Twitter, which uses a text format, the micro-video format of TikTok makes...

apnews.com

TikTok search results riddled with misinformation: Report

A U.S. firm that monitors false online claims reports that searches for information about prominent news topics on TikTok are likely to turn up results riddled with misinformation.

www.newsweek.com

How TikTok Became a Hotbed of Brand Misinformation

Videos on TikTok advancing false and misleading claims about prominent consumer brands garnered 57 million views in a NewsGuard analysis

www.bbc.com

Ukraine war: How TikTok fakes pushed Russian lies to millions

The BBC uncovers a vast Russia-based network of fake TikTok accounts pushing disinformation about Ukraine.

More recent, how's that?

Seriously, I agree that they shouldn't be doing this but the argument you're making is just bad.

okay now do that same exercise about misinformation for meta and twitter
egregiously worse on all fronts

at this point there is no way to have any kind of social media that doesnt have any misinformation in it
but at the very least tiktok doesnt seem as noticeably garbage and awful about it like meta and twitter
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,286
okay now do that same exercise about misinformation for meta and twitter
egregiously worse on all fronts

at this point there is no way to have any kind of social media that doesnt have any misinformation in it
but at the very least tiktok doesnt seem as noticeably garbage and awful about it like meta and twitter
It absolutely does though, you just don't see it because of the algorithm. Try working with kids, they find all of the horrible shit on that platform without fail and then you have to talk to them about it.

Like, I'm literally agreeing that the ban is stupid and wrongheaded. My point is just that arguing that they're some moral stalwart in the social media space is nonsense.
 

baby meowsers

Member
Feb 27, 2024
31
www.theguardian.com

Revealed: how TikTok censors videos that do not please Beijing

Leak spells out how social media app advances China’s foreign policy aims

Literally got caught red handed my dude
Yep. This blew my mind to see.

Screenshot-2024-05-07-at-6-52-32-PM.png


TikTok's Pro-China Tilt - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,763
I mean, he's totally right. All these social media companies are a problem and they all need to be addressed. It's a joke that they're only doing this to tiktok and not everyone.

New study reveals TikTok’s spread of COVID-19 misinformation

A new study conducted by PhD student Morgan Lundy, which was recently published in the International Journal of Communication, reveals how TikTok's unique features have been used to spread COVID-19 misinformation. Unlike Twitter, which uses a text format, the micro-video format of TikTok makes...
This article went into how people who willingly seek misinformation are gonna be bombarded with it due to Tiktok's algorithm.
"The more misinformation you interact with, the more that you see—you can quickly find yourself immersed in massive numbers of TikTok videos relating to COVID-19 vaccine misinformation just after liking a few videos," she said.
Not that Tiktok itself, nor the CCP is spreading misinformation. Let alone the popularity of such videos vs opposing views. Actually looking into it, all of the articles you've linked have been a look into how Tiktok's algorithm functions as opposed to it deliberately pushing misinformation onto the userbase. Let alone acknowledging that due to the sheer size of the fanbase that yes an algorithm hat responds to what you search for by actually feeding you content related directly to it instead of tangentially also applies to people who are going down a rabbit hole of misinformation about topics. Or making it comparable let alone just as bas as the websites literally responsible for the rise of the alt right in America. Hell, i've had Tiktok throughout the Russian Ukraine conflict, and i've never once been presented with misinformation on the topic or a pro Russian perspective. However, if say, a new account were to search for pro Russian views, that's what they'll incresingly get fed overtime because Tiktok doesn't function like a forum, twitter thread, YT comment section, etc.

Hell, the only time I see alt righters is when leftists briefly play a section of their video only to interrupt and debunk the info. This, is an incredibly preferable alternative to again, going on twitter, and needing an extension to automatically block anyone stupid enough to give a billionaire $10 a month, or getting ads that're straight up transphobia. The fact that it doesn't push "opposing views" is what makes it so good to use in the first place. And is part of the reason the youth is flocking to it instead of watching their grandparents post brainrot on facebook and now twitter.


okay now do that same exercise about misinformation for meta and twitter
egregiously worse on all fronts

at this point there is no way to have any kind of social media that doesnt have any misinformation in it
but at the very least tiktok doesnt seem as noticeably garbage and awful about it like meta and twitter
💯
 

NetMapel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,523
It is my understanding that the bill targets apps and such from a specific list of countries such as Russia, China, North Korea and Iran. TikTok is the most high profile app due to its Chinese ownership. Is that still considered targeting, violating first amendment… etc and so on?
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
14,247
Earth
It is my understanding that the bill targets apps and such from a specific list of countries such as Russia, China, North Korea and Iran. TikTok is the most high profile app due to its Chinese ownership. Is that still considered targeting, violating first amendment… etc and so on?
www.resetera.com

TikTok sues U.S. government, saying potential ban violates First Amendment

TikTok owner has strong First Amendment case against US ban, professors say https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/04/tiktok-owner-has-strong-first-amendment-case-against-us-ban-professors-say/
 

NetMapel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,523
www.resetera.com

TikTok sues U.S. government, saying potential ban violates First Amendment

TikTok owner has strong First Amendment case against US ban, professors say https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/04/tiktok-owner-has-strong-first-amendment-case-against-us-ban-professors-say/
It looks to me like the previous Montana and Trump executive orders specifically named TikTok (and WeChat in the latter). This new bill didn't say that but is more broad in that it's saying they want divestment from a list of unfriendly countries, so to speak. I am no lawyer though, so I guess there is one law professor who says that's no bueno. I do think this will be in legal battle for a while so we shall see how that goes.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,286
It looks to me like the previous Montana and Trump executive orders specifically named TikTok (and WeChat in the latter). This new bill didn't say that but is more broad in that it's saying they want divestment from a list of unfriendly countries, so to speak. I am no lawyer though, so I guess there is one law professor who says that's no bueno. I do think this will be in legal battle for a while so we shall see how that goes.
Honestly, I imagine they'll lose on first amendment grounds. Even though it doesn't say it's targeting them, it's literally the only app affected. Not like Russia is putting out some hot new app.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,763
Btw it's probably not a good idea to support a ban of what's most likely the only place the youth can get unfiltered info about what's going on during a historical moment on US college campuses while MSNN downplay the police brutality that's being directed at peaceful campus protests. MSNN that're also simultaneously misrepresenting how "violent" the protestors are after months of severely downplaying the realities of an ongoing genocide.

Like just on that ground ALONE no one should be supporting this especially when the people involved are openly stating that the youth not falling for the gaslighting is a problem. Or directly stating that China is the reason Americans are pissed about America's BS.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,397
The pro-Ukraine one is a big standout. Pro-Israel makes sense with the demographics and younger generally supporting Palestine, but are zoomers big Putin lovers?
I mean we did have posters here parroting Russian propaganda during the first couple months of the war so it wouldn't surprise me.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,763
The pro-Ukraine one is a big standout. Pro-Israel makes sense with the demographics and younger generally supporting Palestine, but are zoomers big Putin lovers?
It should be noted that there are over 6 million videos on the subject of Ukraine. And pro-Ukraine videos are frontloaded.

View: https://www.tiktok.com/@martavasyuta/video/7068478605428346117?lang=en

Again, the article where they relied purely on hashtags straight up admitted that the method used wasn't enough to draw a definitive conclusion about which hashtags are being used and how things get discussed on entirely different apps. Let alone the differing interests of the userbases, the differences in demographics at points in time, and the userbase sizes because Tiktok was not as popular five years ago as it is today where something like organizing to have direct action during protests was far easier due to how many users use the app now.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,208
ROFL that is rich coming from a country where they do exactly this to many companies operating there.
 

gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
They say one picture is worth a thousand words:

Screenshot-2024-05-07-at-6-52-32-PM.png



Let's not forget a few things:

  • Xi wants to maybe slaughter Taiwanese folks by the tens or hundreds of thousands in 2027 to bring them to heel.
  • Uyghurs exist and are being shoved in concentration camps.
  • China is helping Putin slaughter hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and destroy the lives of tens of millions more.

I don't want the USA userbase to be fucked with by China. I don't trust China not to fuck with USA userbase in the future. If you think China can't perniciously influence us, then I am afraid you are severely underestimating China. We underestimated Russia and look what's happening. With that said, I invite China to allow twitter and facebook in China and I will then support a tiktok ban reversal because then they propagandize to us and we propagandize to them: May the best PR team win or whatever. That's a fair playing field.

But what China is doing now? Now that's just unfair! They need Threads and Insta in their lives. And Google maps too. I sure as hell missed those things when I was in China and used a VPN all the time. I dislike Xi and I dislike the great firewall.
 
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Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,763
They say one picture is worth a thousand words:
They also say that a post indicates whether or not someone has read the thread before posting. You sound so proud of posting this picture that has been refuted from an article that's been refuted multiple times ITT.... 🙃

I don't want the youth to be fucked with by China.
What could China do to possibly make the youth more unhappy with the US when the US is dojng a bangup job and making younger generations unhappy with the current state of affairs. Do you think banning Tiktok will make that sentiment go away in anyway shape or form?

We underestimated Russia and look what's happening
We didn't underestimate Russia, we literally observed what Russia was doing, spoke about it, got ignored by MSNN that downplayed the severity of it as well as the rise of the alt right in general circa 2014. Meanwhile Facebook and Twitter literally did the opposite of addressing the problem and instead boosted that content on their platforms, while simultaneously selling user data to China btw.
 
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gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
They also say that a post indicates whether or not someone has read the thread before posting.

I guess you didn't read my entire post? There was text under the picture you didn't address. The diagram you quoted is not central to my argument at all. Even if it didn't exist, the rest of my argument would stand by itself.

Please re-read my post.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,763
I guess you didn't read my entire post? There was text under the picture you didn't address. The diagram you quoted is not central to my argument at all. Even if it didn't exist, the rest of my argument would stand by itself.

Please re-read my post.
I did address the text in your post, it was scaremongering BS that again, has already been refuted multiple times ITT and across multiple Tiktok threads. Three generations of Americans have far more pertinent things to worry about than the hypothetical of China doing anything to affect the US youth's opinion of the US. You have no leg to stand on because people don't give a shit about China scaremongering. That doesn't work in 2024. Again, especially as it pertains to the youth.

People in their twenties aren't worried about China, they're worried about a housing crisis, loss of human rights, unaffordable healthcare, an increasingly dystopian/fascist home country, the failings of late stage capitalism, demonization via "this generation is ruining everything" messaging from the news, lack of gun control, lack of safety nets, etc.
 

MasterChumly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,916
I wonder what the inevitable Supreme Court breakdown will be on the ruling overall. This doesn't seem like a straight forward conservative verses liberal issue.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
14,247
Earth
  • Taiwan is China too and Xi wants to maybe slaughter them by the tens or hundreds of thousands in 2027 to bring them to heel.
  • Uyghurs exist and are being shoved in concentration camps.
  • China is helping Putin slaughter hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and destroy the lives of tens of millions more.

Taiwan isn't China, and they do want reunification, but I don't see the chance of slaughter happening

And using the China is killing X people isn't a good arguement, when the western nation are still doing today.
 

Lothar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,566
I don't want the youth to be fucked with by China. I don't trust China not to fuck with USA youth in the future. If you think China can't perniciously influence US youth, then I am afraid you are severely underestimating China. We underestimated Russia and look what's happening. With that said, I invite China to allow twitter and facebook in China and I will then support a tiktok ban reversal because then they propagandize to our youth and we propagandize to theirs: May the best PR team win or whatever. That's a fair playing field.

But what China is doing now? Now that's just unfair! They need Threads and Insta in their lives. And Google maps too. I sure as hell missed those things when I was in China and used a VPN all the time. I dislike Xi and I dislike the great firewall.

Why is it worse for the youth to be fucked over by China than be fucked over by the US? Fox News and twitter run by Elon Musk and youtube are far worse influences than even the worst case scenarios for Tiktok
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,849
  • Uyghurs exist and are being shoved in concentration camps.
FYI, that program seems to have been ended in 2019 according to WaPo in 2022. It's slightly less dystopian there now.

The most reviled part of the crackdown, the reeducation camp program, appears to have ended in 2019 under international pressure. While a comprehensive independent survey of camp sites has yet to be done — Xinjiang is more than twice the size of Texas — scattered checks by journalists since late 2019 have found such sites abandoned or converted.

A Washington Post reporter checked about a dozen sites around Kashgar and Hotan previously identified as reeducation sites in the Xinjiang Data Project, a database compiled by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. Most of them appeared to be empty or converted, with several sites labeled as coronavirus quarantine facilities, teacher's schools and vocational schools.

At some of the sites, local residents or guards confirmed they were former "vocational education and training centers," Beijing's official term for the reeducation camps, while at others, guards said the buildings had never served a different purpose than their current one. Satellite images show watchtowers, a security feature of detention centers, had been removed from the perimeters of some buildings in 2020.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,763
Why is it worse for the youth to be fucked over by China than be fucked over by the US? Fox News and twitter run by Elon Musk and youtube are far worse influences than even the worst case scenarios for Tiktok
Right wing extremism is literally the biggest threat to the US and Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube wrote the book on how to radicalize the youth most especially young white men yet somehow TikTok is the threat because China bad/US good is meant to be a universal truth as if the US hasn't committed a genocide within the last decade let alone the systemic injustices that're ingrained in America.

That's what gets me at the end of the day. "China will manipulate our youth!"

Into thinking what? That the US isn't perfect?
 

gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
User Banned (3 Months): Inflammatory Commentary; History of Inflammatory Commentary; Prior Ban for Sinophobia

Taiwan, officially the Republic of China (ROC)

Very well, I have edited my post.

Why is it worse for the youth to be fucked over by China than be fucked over by the US?

That is not an argument I made though. My argument was "fair is fair". How can you argue with "fair is fair"? It's literally impossible fam!

FYI, that [Uyghur re-education] program is slightly less dystopian now.
Slightly less dystopian vs Dystopian? That is not a distinction I care to make for obvious reasons.
 
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SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
14,247
Earth
Taiwan, officially the Republic of China (ROC)

Yes it is? Officially even.



That is not an argument I made though. My argument was "fair is fair". How can you argue with "fair is fair"? It's literally impossible fam!


Slightly less dystopian vs Dystopian? That is not a distinction I care to make for obvious reasons.

Taiwan...IS..Not.China.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,286
FYI, that program seems to have been ended in 2019 according to WaPo in 2022. It's slightly less dystopian there now.

Actually, not so much dude: https://uhrp.org/insights/uhrp-anal...ed-in-region-with-worlds-highest-prison-rate/

It's just as bad, they just moved the buildings. Your stuff is totally out of date

Taiwan, officially the Republic of China (ROC)

Yes it is? Officially even.



That is not an argument I made though. My argument was "fair is fair". How can you argue with "fair is fair"? It's literally impossible fam!


Slightly less dystopian vs Dystopian? That is not a distinction I care to make for obvious reasons.
Taiwan isn't China dude. This is offensive to pretty much everyone who lives there.

And also, there's no real reason to worry about "China fucking with our youth". That's just nonsense scare tactics. It's the algorithms that are the problem with these platforms, pretty much every single expert tells us this. What you're talking about is just nonsense from congress.
 

NetMapel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,523
There are two chinese governments who claim to be the ONE legitimate chinese government. One is the ROC, based in Taiwan. The other is the PRC, based on the mainland.

It's a very complicated situation and there is a lot of diplomacy specifically trying to dance around this weird limbo situation.

I didn't think what I said was offensive, so I will edit my post.
Haha honestly, it's semantic at this point. The only reason they haven't gone ahead and change the name or anything is because of People's Republic of China's threat. They'd consider it a Declaration of Independence and a needless war would start.
 

gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
And also, there's no real reason to worry about "China fucking with our youth". That's just nonsense scare tactics. It's the algorithms that are the problem with these platforms, pretty much every single expert tells us this. What you're talking about is just nonsense from congress.

Alright! Yes. That's a good point. Just because most Tiktok users today are youth today doesn't mean they are all youth, or that the facebookization of tiktok won't happen, or that older users aren't equally or more at risk. Fox viewers demonstrate it quite clearly. I've gone back and edited my post to reflect that.

And when I say propagandize, I mean fabricate but mostly boost divisive crap like the Russians did in 2016.
 
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B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,286
That's a good point. Just because most Tiktok users are youth today doesn't mean they are ALL youth, or that older users aren't equally or more at risk. Fox viewers demonstrate it quite clearly.

So I will amend it to say propagandize to the entire population, very likely different types of propaganda for different personas, same as the Russians did in 2016.
You missed the point I made entirely.
 

gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
You missed the point I made entirely.

Perhaps I can clarify. You are no doubt aware of the fuckery that Russia engaged in using Facebook in 2016. I am concerned about the same kind of stuff, but more subtle and effective because the PRC would control the platform whereas Russia had to use bots / troll farms who were at risk of being found out and banned by Meta.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,849
Actually, not so much dude: https://uhrp.org/insights/uhrp-anal...ed-in-region-with-worlds-highest-prison-rate/

It's just as bad, they just moved the buildings. Your stuff is totally out of date

I don't know much about UHRP, but the methodology in how they derived that number seems questionable (that you can take national conviction numbers and apply it here, and that the province is still giving out the same sentences as during the height of the crackdown.) .

But those convictions number shows that repression peaked in 2019 and have been dramatically reduced since then. How is it 'just as bad' ?



Radio Free Asia (safe to say shares the US Viewpoint) cites an outside group with a much smaller number.

"The concentration camps have not disappeared," said Bahtiyar Omer, director of the Uyghur Transitional Justice Database, a Norway-based group. The group says more than 12,600 Uyghurs are being held in camps in Xinjiang.
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,913
Chicago, IL
Perhaps I can clarify. You are no doubt aware of the fuckery that Russia engaged in using Facebook in 2016. I am concerned about the same kind of stuff, but more subtle and effective because the PRC would control the platform whereas Russia had to use bots / troll farms who were at risk of being found out and banned by Meta.

Whatever propaganda China is supposedly using to radicalized the kids on tiktok is gonna pale in comparison to the dystopian reality they are experiencing in real life. China didn't order riot police on college students. Or burden them with crushing debt. Or divest from public infrastructure, education and healthcare in pursuit of profit. They don't need misinformation to radicalize the youth against the government. They just need to give the youth a platform and that's what they did.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
14,247
Earth
Actually, not so much dude: https://uhrp.org/insights/uhrp-anal...ed-in-region-with-worlds-highest-prison-rate/

It's just as bad, they just moved the buildings. Your stuff is totally out of date


Taiwan isn't China dude. This is offensive to pretty much everyone who lives there.

It's not just the prison, they've updated their "surveilance" it's pretty much a real life cyberpunk situation with face scanning, armed police and random searching of digital device.
And t hat's not even counting the "contact" with oversea Uyghur, where in order to talk to family back home, you have a chinese agent in between two digital device, converying and giving "recondation to the oversea to act as a agent of the CCP.

"If you help us, go to this meeting" and take down the name of the attendent, it'll be helpful for your mom back here, I can get her more, money/food, etc"
"You should start a anti-china group, or a business and take down information, etc)

There isn't any "official" news that I can find, most of it is from Uyghur that post on none China control social media, or giving talk here in Taiwan and other SEA countries.
But the Chinese government "learned" alot from the Covid shut down and the zero covid, and have updated t heir surveilance technique.

And they also just arrested the director fake name Plato of the white paper protest documentary for uploading it to youtube and charge them with crime of picking quarrels and provoking trouble which can be 5 year in prison, as a example to citizen to only trust the CCTV news, and not other, and youtube also removed their uploaded video and banned their account.

Documentary reuploaded

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNqhdNDY_BI&t=665s


I didn't realize what I said was offensive to Taiwanese folks, so I will edit my post. I meant it as Taiwan being a more legitimate government than the PRC since it is democratic. It certainly wasn't meant as a diss. I have edited my post to remove that.

We don't have ROC on our passport for awhile, and majority of the citizen, espcially the younger one, doesn't hold the same belief of the KMT from 50 year ago that lost to the Communist China, and who was also responsible for the White Terror militaryrule from 1949~1991, t hat involve the illegal and imprison of many student, teacher, scholer and people taht the KMT doesn't like, and in 1960, the KMT government reported 120k people as "missing" with a estimated 200k people effected.
img20201201143530675_800.jpg
 

CobaltBlu

Member
Nov 29, 2017
820
I don't know much about UHRP, but the methodology in how they derived that number seems questionable (that you can take national conviction numbers and apply it here, and that the province is still giving out the same sentences as during the height of the crackdown.) .

But those convictions number shows that repression peaked in 2019 and have been dramatically reduced since then. How is it 'just as bad' ?



Radio Free Asia (safe to say shares the US Viewpoint) cites an outside group with a much smaller number.

Did you read the article really closely? It kind of lays out how it's just as bad.

These threads always make me raise an eyebrow. It seems like all it takes to get people to downplay the activities of a horribly repressive regime is to threaten to take away a social media platform. Agree or disagree that tiktok should be banned, it shouldn't lead to users here acting like the Chinese government isn't up to really awful stuff or trying to both sides them with USA government. Honestly makes me question if the manipulation angle isn't already real since people have a huge blindspot.
 

DeadDuck144

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 16, 2020
662
The pro-Ukraine one is a big standout. Pro-Israel makes sense with the demographics and younger generally supporting Palestine, but are zoomers big Putin lovers?
My sister literally just told me in the middle of a long conversation about the injustice of what Isreal is doing that we should stop sending aid to Ukraine.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,194
I don't know much about UHRP, but the methodology in how they derived that number seems questionable (that you can take national conviction numbers and apply it here, and that the province is still giving out the same sentences as during the height of the crackdown.) .

But those convictions number shows that repression peaked in 2019 and have been dramatically reduced since then. How is it 'just as bad' ?



Radio Free Asia (safe to say shares the US Viewpoint) cites an outside group with a much smaller number.
You are misunderstanding that article and in reality the situation continues to worsen, but China just obfuscates more how they do it such as false charges leading to imprisonment, https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/imprisonment-rate-report-05022024144951.html . On top of these numbers, the internment camps are still ongoing. Anything saying the opposite is playing down an ongoing genocide.

But hey, you do you.
 
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mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,530
Australia
It should be noted that there are over 6 million videos on the subject of Ukraine. And pro-Ukraine videos are frontloaded.

View: https://www.tiktok.com/@martavasyuta/video/7068478605428346117?lang=en

Again, the article where they relied purely on hashtags straight up admitted that the method used wasn't enough to draw a definitive conclusion about which hashtags are being used and how things get discussed on entirely different apps. Let alone the differing interests of the userbases, the differences in demographics at points in time, and the userbase sizes because Tiktok was not as popular five years ago as it is today where something like organizing to have direct action during protests was far easier due to how many users use the app now.

It's not definitive, no, but it does really raise eyebrows. And I'm not sure why showing that it has pro-Ukraine go against that graph, where their findings indicated there was a large discrepancy, not a total ban of pro-Ukraine content on TikTok.

And with differences in demographic and their interests, I find it hard to believe that the app naturally has a large pro-Palestinian user base but that same user base is either apathetic or pro-Russia when it comes to Ukraine. And the Russian invasion was less than 5 years ago, and still underway.
 
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NetMapel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,523
It should always be pointed out that we have medias here that are extremely diverse. We can see the inhumanity and brutality of things happening. It makes us want to fight and demand better. People tune into college campus protests and other atrocities because they are being covered by all sorts of medias. That is a good thing and is extremely different from authoritarian countries where this could not happen. Watching the Turning Point documentary, the Soviet had try to take advantage of that freedom of press in the western world to sow divisions and fear. They can see precisely what is the hot topic happening in the US and double down on things that can cause more fear. I find Americans pretty frighteningly unique in how much they can hate another fellow American. Perhaps more so now than before due to social medias.
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,836
Elf Tower, New Mexico
I mean, he's totally right. All these social media companies are a problem and they all need to be addressed. It's a joke that they're only doing this to tiktok and not everyone.

New study reveals TikTok’s spread of COVID-19 misinformation

A new study conducted by PhD student Morgan Lundy, which was recently published in the International Journal of Communication, reveals how TikTok's unique features have been used to spread COVID-19 misinformation. Unlike Twitter, which uses a text format, the micro-video format of TikTok makes...

apnews.com

TikTok search results riddled with misinformation: Report

A U.S. firm that monitors false online claims reports that searches for information about prominent news topics on TikTok are likely to turn up results riddled with misinformation.

www.newsweek.com

How TikTok Became a Hotbed of Brand Misinformation

Videos on TikTok advancing false and misleading claims about prominent consumer brands garnered 57 million views in a NewsGuard analysis

www.bbc.com

Ukraine war: How TikTok fakes pushed Russian lies to millions

The BBC uncovers a vast Russia-based network of fake TikTok accounts pushing disinformation about Ukraine.

More recent, how's that?

Seriously, I agree that they shouldn't be doing this but the argument you're making is just bad.


Just wanted to address this.

The misinformation on social media platforms and how they spread is literally my top concern and what I think is one of the biggest threads to humanity at this point along with climate change.

Tiktok, compared to other social media platforms, at least on the American side of things, has recently (as of just last year afaik) built a dedicated misinformation team and actively addresses issues such covid 19 misinformation, election misinformation, and dangerous conspiracy theories. That shit is no longer even allowed to be spread on the platform, while other sites will at most slap a label on the misinformation that people will largely ignore.

At least in my experience, in the industry they are doing a far better job of controlling the spread of misinformation than other platforms.

Of course they aren't going to get it all, that's impossible for anyone, but I can say progress is at least being made.
 

Lilly-Anne

Member
Feb 14, 2024
222
I'm sure you know that 4chan doesn't really have the same reach as the second largest media platform in the United States. Democrats also run ads on Fox News, the Biden Admin is also going to buy ads in the NYT, Democrats will do interviews for both, yet the administration clearly has problems with both of them. Democrats appear on MSNBC despite suing the company that owns MSNBC, Microsoft, in 2001, and then again in 2022 in some of the largest law suits in the last 100 years. The Feds have huge natsec contracts with Microsoft, are massive Azure customers, yet the Biden Admin was also suing them in 2022 in the largest anti-trust law suit in a generation. The Biden Admin is currently suing Facebook/Meta, but they're still running ads on there and maintain accounts on it. Tim Wu, one of the top critics of Amazon and a former member of the Biden Administration, sold his book -- The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust in the New Guilded Age -- about Amazon's monopoly on Amazon.com. You can buy Wu's The Attention Merchants on Google Books despite that it is sharply critical of Google. Amy Klobuchar's history, Anti-Trust: Taking on Monopoly Power in the Digital Guilded Age, which concludes with argument for breaking up Amazon is sold on Amazon.com.



Hand ringing over congress regulating TikTOk and the president signing that regulation, while also having accounts on TikTok the 2nd most powerful media company in the US, is so this:
this panel has been horrificaly abused since its very first day, but comparing the peasant that has to participate in a unfair economy so they can survive with the LITERAL US GOVERNMENT gotta be a new low

the US government has never used private citizens data to influence an election within the US. The Russians have. I know the US does nefarious shit all the time. Doesn't mean we should let another country use data to influence our elections. that is how we got Trump
You mean the thing they can do right now on american owned social media? You accomplish nothing by banning TikTok, Russia and China can just go and buy all your data from Meta instead
 
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FreddieQuell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
131
You mean the thing they can do right now on american owned social media? You accomplish nothing by banning TikTok, Russia and China can just go and buy all your data from Meta instead

Do you really see no difference between china having to buy data from a third party, utilize bot armies, and dodge bans or other forms of security to try and influence us versus them literally owning and controlling the media platform where they do this on? Not to mention that their platform has arguably the biggest reach.
 

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
14,247
Earth
Do you really see no difference between china having to buy data from a third party, utilize bot armies, and dodge bans or other forms of security to try and influence us versus them literally owning and controlling the media platform where they do this on? Not to mention that their platform has arguably the biggest reach.

What security?

And India banned Tiktok in 2020, and made their own local version, but still allow meta and other western social media to operate, but they still have a big problem with misinformation.

As India votes, misinformation surges on social media: 'The whole country is paying the price'


Researchers who track misinformation and hate speech in India say tech companies' poor enforcement of their own policies has created perfect conditions for harmful content that could distort public opinion, spur violence and leave millions of voters wondering what to believe.
Tech companies like Google and Meta, the owner of Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram, say they are working to combat deceptive or hateful content while helping voters find reliable sources. But researchers who have long tracked disinformation in India say their promises ring hollow after years of failed enforcement and "cookie-cutter" approaches that fail to account for India's linguistic, religious, geographic and cultural diversity.
Research by the group and another organization, India Civil Watch International, found that Meta allowed political advertisements and posts that contained anti-Muslim hate speech, Hindu nationalist narratives, misogynistic posts about female candidates as well as ads encouraging violence against political opponents.

The ads were seen more than 65 million times over 90 days earlier this year. Together they cost more than $1 million.
YouTube is another problematic site for disinformation in India, experts say. To test how well that video-sharing platform was doing in enforcing its own rules, researchers at the nonprofits Global Witness and Access Now created 48 fake ads in English, Hindi and Telugu with false voting information or calls for violence. One claimed India raised its voting age to 21, though it remains 18, while another said women could vote by text message, though they cannot. A third called for the use of force at polling places.

When Global Witness submitted the ads to YouTube for approval, the response was disappointing, said Henry Peck, an investigator at Global Witness.

"YouTube didn't act on any of them," Peck said, and instead approved the ads for publication.

apnews.com

As India votes, misinformation surges on social media: 'The whole country is paying the price'

Claims circulating online recently have misstated details about casting a ballot, claimed without evidence that the election will be rigged, and called for violence against Muslims.


And you have politiican and other people just repeating foreign talking point from Russia and China.

Chinese propaganda accounts found by Meta still flourish on X


Propaganda accounts controlled by foreign entities aiming to influence U.S. politics are flourishing on X even after they've been exposed by other social media platforms or criminal proceedings, a Washington Post analysis shows.
Previously, tech companies including Twitter, Facebook owner Meta and Google's YouTube worked with each other, outside researchers and federal law enforcement agencies to limit foreign interference campaigns, following revelations that Russian operatives used fake social media accounts to spread misinformation and exacerbate divisions in 2016.

But X has been largely absent from that effort since Elon Musk bought it in 2022, when it was still Twitter, and for months hasn't sent representatives to biweekly meetings in which the companies share notes on networks of fake accounts they are investigating or planning to take down, according to other participants. "They just kind of disappeared," one said.
One result: In the months since Meta identified 150 artificial influence accounts on X in a series of public reports last year, 136 were still present on X as of Thursday evening, according to The Post's review. That includes a Turkey-based account with more than 1 million followers and five other accounts that have X's blue check mark designating them as verified.
The U.S. government stopped warning social networks about disinformation campaigns in July, after a court ruling barred some communications between the White House and tech companies over censorship concerns. Tech companies have also slashed thousands of workers — some of whom were responsible for guarding their platforms against misinformation — while reversing policies prohibiting some election-related lies.