[Tom Henderson] PS5 Pro specs and release window details (codenamed Trinity, 30WGPs, 18000mts memory speed, November 2024 target)

[PLASTICA-MAN]

eh 😅 , I'm expecting the same Zen 2, but ideally looking at the upcoming product of AMD -> Ryzen 5700X3D.

Zen 3 is also produced on TSMC's 6nm, the IPC + 3D V-cache bump is going to be beneficial. Especially since sony already has an ongoing production contract for TSMC's N7 process node (the PS5). I have not seen any separate rumors of it being RDNA3 or sony having orders with TSMC 4nm in the upcoming years 🤔 .
Thinking about it again, the insider article mentions no RDNA2 or RDNA3, an RDNA2 RX 6800 has the same 60CU as in the rumor or the RDNA3 RX 7800 XT. Where the 7800 XT performs similair to the 6800 XT (72 CU) in non-RT titles.

RDNA3 is currently produced on TSMC's N5 process node family, the rumor of it being TSMC N4P and RDNA 3.5 came from Kepler_L2 (after the report was first made by tom/insider-gaming).


View: https://x.com/Kepler_L2/status/1682431723445927936?s=20

View: https://x.com/Kepler_L2/status/1686637039322591233?s=20

Wishful thinking hoping RDNA3's improvements can be retrofitted on RDNA2 and thus would allow a CPU upgrade while using the same underlying architecture as the PS5 if so desired (e.g. Zen 3). Moreover, Sony and AMD will engineer the chip to make it economically viable while still giving an uplift, would it be possible if the dual issue SIMD design of RDNA3 be stripped in trade-off for increase in RA per CU? That could bring an significant uplift 🤔. Not all games/engines have shown an significant uplift due to the enhanced CU design of RDNA3.
Moreover, it might offset the increase node process cost, but you'll still end-up with a big chip to be cooled in any case. The PS5 is already large so the Pro can always be a bit larger :p.

Also, Kepler_L2 now says it's just Zen 2 with slightly higher clocks;


View: https://x.com/Kepler_L2/status/1731913191616086222?s=20


View: https://x.com/Kepler_L2/status/1731915655304171786?s=20

So I wonder, will it be a chiplet like design where Zen 2 is made on 6nm and the rest of the die on 4nm (GPU) if it ends up being RDNA3.5 or is it something else.
What is possible?

Click to shrink...

Well if kepler keeps repeating this, we are screwed. Crappy bandwidth upgrade plus keeping the same amoun of VRAM (don't bring me they gonna free up some by adding DDR5, doesn't matter if bandwidth is still not huge jump to allow the stuff they will be marketing), not even double CU count and now they backtracked on even nes CPU and now slightly increased?
I started to think they even nit gonna include the patent RT coree, let alone hoping for faster SSD.
At least PS4 Pro had double thr CU ciunt that was imported to the PS5 even, and still even below the XBOX ONE X CU count.
Why even wait an extra year compared to PS4 Pro to offer almost nothing?
GTA VI is a year after so they probably should delay this too to grant a decent upgrade.

Now I can expect the worst and do even worse than PS4 ro which offered a new type of GPU with future features from a newer one. Now if they even keep RDNA2, I won't be shocked.

 

[Deleted member 14089]

What Nvidia gfx card would this be compared to?

Click to shrink...

Eh, hmm, it's difficult to compare especially through the lens of consoles where a game load and overhead due to the OS is completely different.

In the PC market, ideally the RTX 3080, but NVIDIA still has better RT due to their HW implementation + upscaling with DLSS.
The PS5 has been compared to the RTX 2070 Super w.r.t. RT and non RT games, but it's been difficult to compare as the 2070 Super is bottlenecked due to the VRAM. So you can approximate it to the RTX 3060 nowadays.

Why even wait an extra year compared to PS4 Pro to offer almost nothing?
GTA VI is a year after so they probably should delay this too to grant a decent upgrade.

Now I can expect the worst and do even worse than PS4 ro which offered a new type of GPU with future features from a newer one. Now if they even keep RDNA2, I won't be shocked.

Click to shrink...

Hmm~
In the end the Pro console is there to play games on the PS5 at even a better fidelity. 4k is out of the picture as it was for the Pro console, so RT and perhaps a better upscaling solution is the angle (Sony developed their own hardware checkerboarding for the Pro, so who knows what they'll be able to achieve now)*.
I think it's better to not expect too much and just accept it as it is revealed :p. Better to underestimate now instead of overestimate.

In the end they're still roughly doubling the CU count with a high frequency clock speed (hopefully). Some of Sony's first party titles, you could observe how the quality mode (30fps) with VRR is able to achieve the mid 40's and sometimes 50's.
CPU clock boost + bigger GPU could get that mode to 60fps, which is benificial without looking at a new CPU and GPU.

Console gens are long, but costs also and with these newer nodes and price increases due to inflation, retaining margin without incurring a huge loss over time is a priority. Can't expect a PS6 in a PS5 Pro 😅 .

* checkerboarding != upscaling

 

[Playboi Carti]

I wonder how ugly it's going to be lol

The dev kits are just big boys

Click to shrink...

You seen one 👀?

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Eh, hmm, it's difficult to compare especially through the lens of consoles where a game load and overhead due to the OS is completely different.

In the PC market, ideally the RTX 3080, but NVIDIA still has better RT due to their HW implementation + upscaling with DLSS.
The PS5 has been compared to the RTX 2070 Super w.r.t. RT and non RT games, but it's been difficult to compare as the 2070 Super is bottlenecked due to the VRAM. So you can approximate it to the RTX 3060 nowadays.



Hmm~
In the end the Pro console is there to play games on the PS5 at even a better fidelity. 4k is out of the picture as it was for the Pro console, so RT and perhaps a better upscaling solution is the angle (Sony developed their own hardware checkerboarding method for the Pro, so who knows what they'll be able to achieve now).
I think it's better to not expect too much and just accept it as it is revealed :p. Better to underestimate now instead of overestimate.

In the end they're still roughly doubling the CU count with a high frequency clock speed (hopefully). Some of Sony's first party titles, you could observe how the quality mode (30fps) with VRR is able to achieve the mid 40's and sometimes 50's.
CPU clock boost + bigger GPU could get that mode to 60fps, which is benificial without looking at a new CPU and GPU.

Console gens are long, but costs also and with these newer nodes and price increases due to inflation, retaining margin is a priority :p. Can't expect a PS6 in a PS5 Pro 😅 .

Click to shrink...

Tbh the rumored PR talk to devs to bring better res , betetr FPS, + better RT and even 8K won't be valid with those specs and they gonan pull the biggest lie if they market it.

 

[Deleted member 14089]

Tbh the rumored PR talk to devs to bring better res , betetr FPS, + better RT and even 8K won't be valid with those specs and they gonan pull the biggest lie if they market it.

Click to shrink...

Let go of the 8K, I bet even next gen that'll be a sticker on the box 😂

 

[Convasse]

Tbh the rumored PR talk to devs to bring better res , betetr FPS, + better RT and even 8K won't be valid with those specs and they gonan pull the biggest lie if they market it.

Click to shrink...

You specifically have been setting yourself up for disappointment for years in these PS hardware speculation threads. And you do it over and over again with no lessons learned SMH

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

You specifically have been setting yourself up for disappointment for years in these PS hardware speculation threads. And you do it over and over again with no lessons learned SMH

Click to shrink...

PS5 was not disappointing for me. PS5 Pro will be for sure.

 

[Head on the Block]

You seen one 👀?

Click to shrink...

Sega has had them for months, Square too. They're not that different from the PS5.

 

[RandomlyRandom67]

Existing information

• In July 2023, Tom Henderson reported that the PS5 Pro, "codenamed" Trinity, is currently in development. According to him it has 30WGPs, 18 gbps GDDR6, and is targeting a Nov 2024 release date. He also mentioned it has "accelerated ray tracing."
• Reliable hardware leaker "Kepler_L2" reported in July that AMD's codename for the SoC is "Viola."
• Both Trinity and Viola codenames follow the existing Shakespearean inspiration for codenames surrounding the latest Sony consoles. Viola is the protagonist in the Shakespeare play Twelfth Night, and Trinity references the Holy Trinity Church (Stratford-upon-Avon) where Shakespeare was baptized, married, and buried. But it also carries another meaning that we'll get to later.
• Kepler_L2 recently said the PS5 Pro's CPU upgrade is "rather small."
• (Let me know if I missed anything in terms of previously established rumors)

New information:

• Viola is fabbed on TSMC N4P.
• GFX1115
• Viola's CPU is maintaining the zen2 architecture found in the existing PS5 for compatibility, but the frequency will once again be dynamic with a peak of 4.4GHz. 64 KB of L1 cache per core, 512 KB of L2 cache per core, and 8 MB of L3 shared (4 MB per CCX).
• Viola's die is 30WGPs when fully enabled, but it will only have 28WGPs (56 CUs) enabled for the silicon in retail PS5 Pro units.
• Trinity is the culmination of three key technologies. Fast storage (hardware accelerated compression and decompression, already an existing key PS5 technology), accelerated ray tracing, and upscaling.
• Architecture is RDNA3, but it's taking ray tracing improvements from RDNA4. BVH traversal will be handled by dedicated RT hardware rather than fully relying on the shaders. It will also include thread reordering to reduce data and execution divergence, something akin to Ada Lovelace SER and Intel Arc's TSU.
• 3584 shaders, 224 TMUs, and 96 ROPs.
• 16GB of 18 gbps GDDR6. 256-bit memory bus with 576 GB/s memory bandwidth.
• The GPU frequency target is 2.0 GHz. This lands the dual-issue TFLOPs in the range of 28.67 TFLOPs peak (224 (TMUs) * 2 (operations, dual issue) * 2 (core clock)). 14.33 TFLOPs if we ignore the dual-issue factor.
• 50-60% rasterization uplift over Oberon and Oberon Plus, over twice the raw RT performance.
• XDNA2 NPU will be featured for the purpose of accelerating Sony's bespoke temporal machine learning upscaling technique. This will be one of the core focuses of the PS5 Pro, like we saw with checkboard rendering for the PS4 Pro. Temporally stable upscaled 4K output at higher than 30 FPS is the goal.
• September 2024 reveal

 

[Afrikan]

Is that you Jeff??? 😁

But seriously, where is this new info from? Interesting.

Edit- oh that XDNA2 NPU announcement is from a few days ago from AMD. (Not specifically mentioning PS5 Pro)

 

[DC5remy]

Who are you?

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Existing information

• In July 2023, Tom Henderson reported that the PS5 Pro, "codenamed" Trinity, is currently in development. According to him it has 30WGPs, 18 gbps GDDR6, and is targeting a Nov 2024 release date. He also mentioned it has "accelerated ray tracing."
• Reliable hardware leaker "Kepler_L2" reported in July that AMD's codename for the SoC is "Viola."
• Both Trinity and Viola codenames follow the[ existing Shakespearean inspiration for codenames surrounding the latest Sony consoles. Viola is the protagonist in the Shakespeare play Twelfth Night, and Trinity references the Holy Trinity Church (Stratford-upon-Avon) where Shakespeare was baptized, married, and buried. But it also carries another meaning that we'll get to later.
• Kepler_L2 recently said the PS5 Pro's CPU upgrade is "rather small."
• (Let me know if I missed anything in terms of previously established rumors)

New information:

• Viola is fabbed on TSMC N4P.
• GFX1115
• Viola's CPU is maintaining the zen2 architecture found in the existing PS5 for compatibility, but the frequency will once again be dynamic with a peak of 4.4GHz. 64 KB of L1 cache per core, 512 KB of L2 cache per core, and 8 MB of L3 shared (4 MB per CCX).
• Viola's die is 30WGPs when fully enabled, but it will only have 28WGPs (56 CUs) enabled for the silicon in retail PS5 Pro units.
• Trinity is the culmination of three key technologies. Fast storage (hardware accelerated compression and decompression, already an existing key PS5 technology), accelerated ray tracing, and upscaling.
• Architecture is RDNA3, but it's taking ray tracing improvements from RDNA4. BVH traversal will be handled by dedicated RT hardware rather than fully relying on the shaders. It will also include thread reordering to reduce data and execution divergence, something akin to Ada Lovelace SER and Intel Arc's TSU.
• 3584 shaders, 224 TMUs, and 96 ROPs.
• 16GB of 18 gbps GDDR6. 256-bit memory bus with 576 GB/s memory bandwidth.
• The GPU frequency target is 2.0 GHz. This lands the dual-issue TFLOPs in the range of 28.67 TFLOPs peak (224 (TMUs) * 2 (operations, dual issue) * 2 (core clock)). 14.33 TFLOPs if we ignore the dual-issue factor.
• 50-60% rasterization uplift over Oberon and Oberon Plus, over twice the raw RT performance.
• XDNA2 NPU will be featured for the purpose of accelerating Sony's bespoke temporal machine learning upscaling technique. This will be one of the core focuses of the PS5 Pro, like we saw with checkboard rendering for the PS4 Pro. Temporally stable 4K output at higher than 30 FPS is the goal.
• September 2024 reveal

Click to shrink...

Where is this info from? Should the GPU clocks not be at least the same as the current one? Are the CPU caches higher than the current one?

 

[blastprocessor]

So we thinking 4070 class?

 

[bitcloudrzr]

So we thinking 4070 class?

Click to shrink...

Just under a 7800XT, maybe inbetween these two cards.

 

[Conf]

7800 XT is 37.32TF vs 28.67TF for the Pro's GPU (+30%) if the numbers above end up being correct (comparison would be pretty straightforward in raster at least if they're really both RDNA3 based with the RDNA4 improvements "only" being in regards to RT).
7800 XT also has slightly higher mem bandwidth and 64MB of infinity cache which I doubt the Pro GPU will match.

 

[blastprocessor]

Sounds more like a 4060.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Sounds more like a 4060.

Click to shrink...

A 4060 would not even be better than a 2080S for raster.

 

[RivalGT]

I find the lower clocks a little strange, how would compatibility work with lower clocks...

 

[mcruz79]

While I will probably be there day one, 8 honestly would love for a no pro consoles and a new gen in 2025 or 2026 at maximum…
This gen is such a disappointment tech wise…
Even praised technology games, looks much more like a glorified ps4 game than a actual nextgen game…

I just wanted those tech demo levels of tech in actual games and it's pretty clear to me that this actual consoles can't handle this.

 

[kostacurtas]

While I will probably be there day one, 8 honestly would love for a no pro consoles and a new gen in 2025 or 2026 at maximum…
This gen is such a disappointment tech wise…
Even praised technology games, looks much more like a glorified ps4 game than a actual nextgen game…

I just wanted those tech demo levels of tech in actual games and it's pretty clear to me that this actual consoles can't handle this.

Click to shrink...

I don't think that we want 5 years console gen cycles. Most modern games need at least 5 years of development.

Sadly you can't easily make huge jumps in graphics anymore with just more and more power. It takes time.

If you think that this console gen is a tech disappointment I don't know how a PC gamer should feel about it with how expensive GPUs are nowadays.

More impressive current gen games will come.

 

[dgrdsv]

I find the lower clocks a little strange, how would compatibility work with lower clocks...

Click to shrink...

A. Clocks can be higher in b/c mode because presumably half of the GPU would be shut off.
B. Honestly if Sony is still relying on stuff like the same clocks of all things for b/c then they are doing it completely wrong.

 

[sam777]

How much more powerful is this than PS5/Series X?
Is it similar to the jump from PS4 to PS4 pro or bigger?

 

[Spork4000]

How much more powerful is this than PS5/Series X?
Is it similar to the jump from PS4 to PS4 pro or bigger?

Click to shrink...

If that info is correct it's a significantly smaller jump than PS4 -> PS4 Pro. That was a 2.2x jump, this is a 1.5x -> 1.6x jump, but with unknown performance uplift from dedicated upscaling and raytracing accelerators.

While I will probably be there day one, 8 honestly would love for a no pro consoles and a new gen in 2025 or 2026 at maximum…

Click to shrink...

I keep seeing this sentiment online, and I think it kind of has it backwards, We get pro consoles because gens are longer, gens aren't longer because of pro consoles. A 2026 PlayStation 6 wouldn't be enough of a generational leap to justify its existence. Tech slowed down, so to really get that jump to justify new consoles they have to wait longer. In the meantime they release pro consoles to fix some of the short comings from the current gen.

 

[sam777]

If that info is correct it's a significantly smaller jump than PS4 -> PS4 Pro. That was a 2.2x jump, this is a 1.5x -> 1.6x jump, but with unknown performance uplift from dedicated upscaling and raytracing accelerators.



I keep seeing this sentiment online, and I think it kind of has it backwards, We get pro consoles because gens are longer, gens aren't longer because of pro consoles. A 2026 PlayStation 6 wouldn't be enough of a generational leap to justify its existence. Tech slowed down, so to really get that jump to justify new consoles they have to wait longer. In the meantime they release pro consoles to fix some of the short comings from the current gen.

Click to shrink...

Thx

 

[Deleted member 158819]

Existing information

• In July 2023, Tom Henderson reported that the PS5 Pro, "codenamed" Trinity, is currently in development. According to him it has 30WGPs, 18 gbps GDDR6, and is targeting a Nov 2024 release date. He also mentioned it has "accelerated ray tracing."
• Reliable hardware leaker "Kepler_L2" reported in July that AMD's codename for the SoC is "Viola."
• Both Trinity and Viola codenames follow the existing Shakespearean inspiration for codenames surrounding the latest Sony consoles. Viola is the protagonist in the Shakespeare play Twelfth Night, and Trinity references the Holy Trinity Church (Stratford-upon-Avon) where Shakespeare was baptized, married, and buried. But it also carries another meaning that we'll get to later.
• Kepler_L2 recently said the PS5 Pro's CPU upgrade is "rather small."
• (Let me know if I missed anything in terms of previously established rumors)

New information:

• Viola is fabbed on TSMC N4P.
• GFX1115
• Viola's CPU is maintaining the zen2 architecture found in the existing PS5 for compatibility, but the frequency will once again be dynamic with a peak of 4.4GHz. 64 KB of L1 cache per core, 512 KB of L2 cache per core, and 8 MB of L3 shared (4 MB per CCX).
• Viola's die is 30WGPs when fully enabled, but it will only have 28WGPs (56 CUs) enabled for the silicon in retail PS5 Pro units.
• Trinity is the culmination of three key technologies. Fast storage (hardware accelerated compression and decompression, already an existing key PS5 technology), accelerated ray tracing, and upscaling.
• Architecture is RDNA3, but it's taking ray tracing improvements from RDNA4. BVH traversal will be handled by dedicated RT hardware rather than fully relying on the shaders. It will also include thread reordering to reduce data and execution divergence, something akin to Ada Lovelace SER and Intel Arc's TSU.
• 3584 shaders, 224 TMUs, and 96 ROPs.
• 16GB of 18 gbps GDDR6. 256-bit memory bus with 576 GB/s memory bandwidth.
• The GPU frequency target is 2.0 GHz. This lands the dual-issue TFLOPs in the range of 28.67 TFLOPs peak (224 (TMUs) * 2 (operations, dual issue) * 2 (core clock)). 14.33 TFLOPs if we ignore the dual-issue factor.
• 50-60% rasterization uplift over Oberon and Oberon Plus, over twice the raw RT performance.
• XDNA2 NPU will be featured for the purpose of accelerating Sony's bespoke temporal machine learning upscaling technique. This will be one of the core focuses of the PS5 Pro, like we saw with checkboard rendering for the PS4 Pro. Temporally stable upscaled 4K output at higher than 30 FPS is the goal.
• September 2024 reveal

Click to shrink...

About what I expected from disabled WGPs, RT from RDNA4, and being closer to a 7700XT than 7800XT. Zen2 is a bit disappointing but it also makes sense.

 

[mcruz79]

I don't think that we want 5 years console gen cycles. Most modern games need at least 5 years of development.

Sadly you can't easily make huge jumps in graphics anymore with just more and more power. It takes time.

If you think that this console gen is a tech disappointment I don't know how a PC gamer should feel about it with how expensive GPUs are nowadays.

More impressive current gen games will come.

Click to shrink...

yes, I know that dev cycles are massive and game development is extremely complex nowadays but if consoles were more powerful , I think developers would have targeted his games with a bit higher fidelity compared to what we have now…
just some exemples are the lighting system we see in games like dying light 2 , cyberpunk that are not possible in this consoles…
Games with more advanced tech like Alan wake 2 having a really bad IQ on consoles because of the lack of power…

Yes, PC gamers should have much better visuals nowadays but we all know that 99% of games are developed with the current gen consoles hardware in mind, so, I think that a much better PC hardware available on the market will never make a massive difference in actual game tech advancements as a overall view.

If that info is correct it's a significantly smaller jump than PS4 -> PS4 Pro. That was a 2.2x jump, this is a 1.5x -> 1.6x jump, but with unknown performance uplift from dedicated upscaling and raytracing accelerators.



I keep seeing this sentiment online, and I think it kind of has it backwards, We get pro consoles because gens are longer, gens aren't longer because of pro consoles. A 2026 PlayStation 6 wouldn't be enough of a generational leap to justify its existence. Tech slowed down, so to really get that jump to justify new consoles they have to wait longer. In the meantime they release pro consoles to fix some of the short comings from the current gen.

Click to shrink...

Yes, it makes sense, but the problem for me, is that this gen never really impressed with actual games, while the tech demos were a massive teaser For me.
Theres some UE5 tech demos that are just incredible and show a massive jump in rendering and visuals, but the actual games looks just improved PS4 games for me.

In the previous gen, actual games were so much ahead of PS3 games , since the beginning of the gen and the cooler thing for me was that at every E3 show, during all generation, we always saw a new bunch of games with more and more impressive visuals and tech…

Every year we had impressive reveals with always more more gorgeous visuals and tech…
And people said that PS4 was a very outdated hardware since his release but at all E3s we had games incredible gorgeous being presented and impressing players.

Nowadays, its Been really hard to be impressed by those games in this events.
They all look very very similar to the PS4 games in my opinion with very rare exceptions.

 

[Spork4000]

Yes, it makes sense, but the problem for me, is that this gen never really impressed with actual games, while the tech demos were a massive teaser For me.
Theres some UE5 tech demos that are just incredible and show a massive jump in rendering and visuals, but the actual games looks just improved PS4 games for me.

In the previous gen, actual games were so much ahead of PS3 games , since the beginning of the gen and the cooler thing for me was that at every E3 show, during all generation, we always saw a new bunch of games with more and more impressive visuals and tech…

Every year we had impressive reveals with always more more gorgeous visuals and tech…
And people said that PS4 was a very outdated hardware since his release but at all E3s we had games incredible gorgeous being presented and impressing players.

Nowadays, its Been really hard to be impressed by those games in this events.
They all look very very similar to the PS4 games in my opinion with very rare exceptions.

Click to shrink...

Yeah….. I've only really been impressed by a few games, Alan Wake 2, Spider-man a2 at points, demon's souls, ect. This is the smallest power jump of all time, and it came with the largest resolution jump of all time. I don't disagree with what you said, but a new gen earlier wouldn't really fix it imo.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Yeah….. I've only really been impressed by a few games, Alan Wake 2, Spider-man a2 at points, demon's souls, ect. This is the smallest power jump of all time, and it came with the largest resolution jump of all time. I don't disagree with what you said, but a new gen earlier wouldn't really fix it imo.

Click to shrink...

We should at least be seeing current gen only AAAs come out more consistently going forward. Many of which are not going to be announced at the TGAs but publisher showcases. Have you checked Avatar out?

 

[ArchLector]

Tech demo level fidelity is never really reached until the end of the gen, and then also only for a few games. I think the marketing blitz by Epic has set really wrong expectations for some people. It's a "tech demo" for a reason!
(And there are undeniable diminishing returns in graphics, on multiple levels, no matter how much people railed against the simple concept).

 

[Spork4000]

We should at least be seeing current gen only AAAs come out more consistently going forward. Many of which are not going to be announced at the TGAs but publisher showcases. Have you checked Avatar out?

Click to shrink...

Haven't checked it out yet, it's on the list, but from the digital foundry video it'll be super impressive.

Glad cross gen is ending, I always said we'll know it's nearly over when indie games that absolutely could run on last gen are announced without it, and we saw plenty of those at the game awards.

 

[sifi36]

Tech demo level fidelity is never really reached until the end of the gen, and then also only for a few games. I think the marketing blitz by Epic has set really wrong expectations for some people. It's a "tech demo" for a reason!
(And there are undeniable diminishing returns in graphics, on multiple levels, no matter how much people railed against the simple concept).

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure I agree with the diminishing returns argument. Some of the stuff we are seeing on PC, like Avatar and Cyberpunk and Alan Wake 2 with path tracing look a generation ahead of last gen and even most current gen games, or the few that we've had at least.

These consoles launched with AMD APUs that were blindsided by NVIDIA's push into real-time ray tracing and machine learning driven upscaling. These two paradigm shifts do enable a true generational leap. Given the launch of Pascal in 2018, and the relatively slow uptake of ray tracing in games at that time, it wouldn't surprise me if the addition of ray tracing was a last minute addition to the consoles; it's a half-baked solution that doesn't really allow the same level of integration into games as something like Ada Lovelace is now showing.

The PS5 Pro having AI upscaling and more ray tracing capability sounds great in theory, though I wonder how far Pro versions of games will take advantage of the tech outside of first party.

 

[Spoit]

Yeah….. I've only really been impressed by a few games, Alan Wake 2, Spider-man a2 at points, demon's souls, ect. This is the smallest power jump of all time, and it came with the largest resolution jump of all time. I don't disagree with what you said, but a new gen earlier wouldn't really fix it imo.

Click to shrink...

I dunno about anyone else, but the main reason I'm getting a pro day one is the unacceptable resolution cuts actually current gen games keep making. Games are dropping to the realm of sub-720p, that's like PS3 era fuzziness!

 

[blastprocessor]

A 4060 would not even be better than a 2080S for raster.

Click to shrink...

So what do you think 4070 then?

 

[bitcloudrzr]

So what do you think 4070 then?

Click to shrink...

The only thing that is really confirmed at this point is the WGP setup is the same as the 7800XT. Whatever the active setup and clocks will be are unconfirmed. I think whatever the end result, they would want to target roughly 2x raster. Dedicated RT, hardware upscaling whether AI or not, we just do no have enough info to really say one way or another.

 

[Mcbel]

Small upgrade for CPU? What a waste.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Small upgrade for CPU? What a waste.

Click to shrink...

Possibly makes sense if they are hitting a certain price target.

 

[mcruz79]

Tech demo level fidelity is never really reached until the end of the gen, and then also only for a few games. I think the marketing blitz by Epic has set really wrong expectations for some people. It's a "tech demo" for a reason!
(And there are undeniable diminishing returns in graphics, on multiple levels, no matter how much people railed against the simple concept).

Click to shrink...

Yes, tech demos in general are hard to be achieved in actual games but to be honest, some of those tech demos didn't looked far out of reach if you just compare to what a PS4 could produce with games like battlefront, AC Unity, god of war, red dead redemption 2, uncharted 4, tlou2 , death stranding, horizon, the order and many others…

I was hopeful because the fidelity PS4 games achieved with that hardware was just unbelievable for me and it really set high expect from what I've expected for PS5.
Those presented tech demos really didn't. Looked to far ahead of what was possible at that time…

 

[dgrdsv]

Small upgrade for CPU? What a waste.

Click to shrink...

There are no technical ways to have a "big" CPU upgrade.
Which is what people have been saying since the beginning of the gen, and also why many people think that the Pro upgrade would be completely unnecessary this time.

 

[Darkstorne]

Yes, tech demos in general are hard to be achieved in actual games but to be honest, some of those tech demos didn't looked far out of reach if you just compare to what a PS4 could produce with games like battlefront, AC Unity, god of war, red dead redemption 2, uncharted 4, tlou2 , death stranding, horizon, the order and many others…

I was hopeful because the fidelity PS4 games achieved with that hardware was just unbelievable for me and it really set high expect from what I've expected for PS5.
Those presented tech demos really didn't. Looked to far ahead of what was possible at that time…

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I think the problem here is the games you list as examples, while gorgeous for sure, either have scope limitations to help them achieve those visuals (like fixed time of day for baked lighting, small maps, or made concessions in other areas like AC Unity's horrendous draw distance and LOD pop-in) or they were late gen games and/or benefitted from huge budgets and production time (RDR2 specifically).

We're still going to see gorgeous similar examples this gen. I'd argue Ratchet already is, and Hellblade 2 is shaping up to be an absolute stunner. And who knows how hard Rockstar will have cooked with GTA6. Some of Sony's big first party IP still hasn't moved to current-gen only (Horizon, God of War), and we're only now starting to see big third party current-gen hits (Avatar) with titles like current-gen only Assassin's Creed still yet to be seen.

And while I know the tech demos are unlikely to be representative of the majority of games.... that's literally always been the case. PS4 gen had equally stunning tech demos for the time:

And finally, it's nice to see you saying the previous gen felt like a big leap while the current one doesn't, because I'm used to seeing that exact same statement pop up at the start of every new gen now 😂 I think we'll get there. We're just still coming out of that cross-gen period, and game dev takes longer than ever.

 

[disparate]

you cannot have real/substantial in-generation CPU upgrades, this has been known since last gen

 

[neoak]

Small upgrade for CPU? What a waste.

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Only way to do that would be swapping Zen 2 for Zen 4 cores (maybe even 4c), but that would make the system not 100% compatible, and add extra work to Q&A games during development.

There could be older games that don't like the new CPU and would give issues.

And this is ignoring the cost.

 

[mcruz79]

I think the problem here is the games you list as examples, while gorgeous for sure, either have scope limitations to help them achieve those visuals (like fixed time of day for baked lighting, small maps, or made concessions in other areas like AC Unity's horrendous draw distance and LOD pop-in) or they were late gen games and/or benefitted from huge budgets and production time (RDR2 specifically).

We're still going to see gorgeous similar examples this gen. I'd argue Ratchet already is, and Hellblade 2 is shaping up to be an absolute stunner. And who knows how hard Rockstar will have cooked with GTA6. Some of Sony's big first party IP still hasn't moved to current-gen only (Horizon, God of War), and we're only now starting to see big third party current-gen hits (Avatar) with titles like current-gen only Assassin's Creed still yet to be seen.

And while I know the tech demos are unlikely to be representative of the majority of games.... that's literally always been the case. PS4 gen had equally stunning tech demos for the time:

And finally, it's nice to see you saying the previous gen felt like a big leap while the current one doesn't, because I'm used to seeing that exact same statement pop up at the start of every new gen now 😂 I think we'll get there. We're just still coming out of that cross-gen period, and game dev takes longer than ever.

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Yes, I remember this tech demo.
it was insane and being honest it didn't got achieved in last gen games… hell, probably not in this gen also… hahahaha!!

I just hope you are right and the super impressive games start to arrive soon…

By your exemples, I agree that ratchet and clank is really gorgeous and superior to previous gen games, specially in models and some scenarios.
The problem with that game was the visual effects (smoke and explosions) that really looked a gen behind the rest of the tech used in the game.
By Hellblade 2 , I also think is gorgeous but the chromatic aberration looks so strong in the trailers that it's making the IQ looking a bit strange in my opinion…
Also , that first trailer left a false expectation in my mouth… While gorgeous , it not looks on par with that reveal ( probably a CGI at that time).

 

[RedHeat]

There are no technical ways to have a "big" CPU upgrade.
Which is what people have been saying since the beginning of the gen, and also why many people think that the Pro upgrade would be completely unnecessary this time.

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Eh, if it's the difference of a locked 60fps or 1440p instead of 1080p I think it's worth it.

 

[neoak]

Eh, if it's the difference of a locked 60fps or 1440p instead of 1080p I think it's worth it.

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It will be resolution, "locked 60fps" in games that don't reach it already due to CPU load won't reach it.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

It will be resolution, "locked 60fps" in games that don't reach it already due to CPU load won't reach it.

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We are seeing mostly GPU limited situations anyway. If the CPU ugprade really is just a clock bump like last time, I would hope it is a cost measure.

 

[Broadbandit]

• Viola's CPU is maintaining the zen2 architecture found in the existing PS5 for compatibility, but the frequency will once again be dynamic with a peak of 4.4GHz. 64 KB of L1 cache per core, 512 KB of L2 cache per core, and 8 MB of L3 shared (4 MB per CCX).

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So if there is any truth to this...
Right now, ps5 cpu is variable and capped at 3.5ghz right? and that the default clock is 3.2ghz (from DF)
so if they are able to clock the cpu higher at like 3.5-4.0 at default and then boost up to 4.4ghz?
I mean we'd be looking at what... like 10% in the cpu department?
That's not terrible imo for still being zen2.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

So if there is any truth to this...
Right now, ps5 cpu is variable and capped at 3.5ghz right? and that the default clock is 3.2ghz (from DF)
so if they are able to clock the cpu higher at like 3.5-4.0 at default and then boost up to 4.4ghz?
I mean we'd be looking at what... like 10% in the cpu department?
That's not terrible imo for still being zen2.

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When did DF confirm that?

 

[Zep]

There are no technical ways to have a "big" CPU upgrade.
Which is what people have been saying since the beginning of the gen, and also why many people think that the Pro upgrade would be completely unnecessary this time.

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If they think it's unecessary this time, then it would have been last generation too. There was no big CPU jump there either. We just got a much better CPU from the start this time.

 

[Jeffram]

3rd parties should be getting devkits right about now shouldn't they?

 

[Zep]

3rd parties should be getting devkits right about now shouldn't they?

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According to someone here they are already in devs hands