Ramon Villalobos is totally right. Jae seems like a dipshit lashing out at all the wrong people. Dude is also giving comicsgate dildos a more pronounced platform to spread their awfulness.
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exactly, but most folks here don't care, because it doesn't fit with their agenda.
I'd venture plenty of people here disagree with the way Tom King approached this. Wasn't the best way to bring Jae's shitty behavior and his ostrichhead-in-the-dirt approach to his field.
It was poor attempt at sarcasm on my part. If I were Jae Lee I'd be furious.
Honestly, it was a shitty thing to single out that one dude without checking with him beforehand, and blowing up on twitter like this must be anxiety inducing, particularly for someone who doesn't use it at all. Nevermind the really shitty look of King talking over Lee saying "we're cool".
But I cant help but notice that half the people ITT don't have a single bad word to say about that hate movement.
Like, spare 5 seconds between 2 CIA jokes as a reminder this is spearheaded by Nazi shitheads, which kind of explains how things are so volatile.
Lee completely ignoring CG in his statement bothers me. Like he could've at least said "it was an accident" or something because he did in fact give them art.
I barely heard about this. From reading Tom King's original tweet and seeing Jea Lee's response I definitely feel Jea Lee is at fault. If he's in a bad spot and he's too bitter rn that's his business he can close up and shut everyone out. Sounds like he's an extremely offline person, good for him. He did business with trash and it's 100% normal in this day and age to question him.
Also, I don't care at all about Tom King. I think he's slightly overrated(maybe more than slightly). But he's well within his right to be critical of people being assigned to his work.
Also, I don't care at all about Tom King. I think he's slightly overrated(maybe more than slightly). But he's well within his right to be critical of people being assigned to his work.
Bizarre.
So every thread about a bigoted movement requires verbal censure from every poster in that thread?
There was a thread recently on a man holding a BLM sign in some hick town in Arkansas. He was taunted and insulted. The majority of those folks are human trash. I don't need to post that. It's assumed. They are obviously horrible people.
Now, if folks are defending the bigots, then there's a huge difference.
My bad. we cool now.
Yea you're right.
Let me just tattoo "Fuck CG", "FUCK TRUMP", "FUCK THE CCP", and just for good measure "ACAB", on my shoulder. Now everyone will forever know where I stand.
You don't think contributing art, which was used as a selling point, to a hate group is shitty? And then issuing a message that doesn't even bother to address the problem with his involvement? Tom's approach was pretty tactless, but at the end of the day Jae's contributions to comicsgate is quite shitty.
I wonder if these responses would be quite as dismissive if this were another medium. Like yeah King should have handled this better, but errr far as I can see Lee hasn't said shit about CG or distanced himself from them enough to not be marketed by the fucks.
People in the industry are aware. It's not about readers or your family. Dynamite just went from indie darling to overnight pariahs losing supports from distributors, LCS, and other publishers. In the actual industry (ie, not readers, not casual fans-no people who actually write, do art, edit comics) it's a really big fucking deal.
I am not chiding you or anyone else for not knowing, if your not part of the industry it doesn't really affect your life that much, but in the industry it's a huge deal that loses people work and jobs Because they associate or identify with/as CG, which is a hate group, and also has had harassment against anti-cg people to the point of law enforcement involvement.
As I said in my first post I have nothing to say about this specific situation, but about Comicsgate as a whole it's shitty to see people downplay and handwave them as "a Twitter thing" or acting like it's nothing since they (again people not actually in the industry that just consume comics) don't know about it.
Tom King said he did covers for a hate group, which is 100% true. He never said Lee was knowingly a member of the group.
Those who are mad at King seem to be attributing things to the tweet which aren't there.
You can be made that King's post was interpreted by others to mean that Lee was part of the group or that King implies that, but it's certainly not something he said.
Those who are mad at King seem to be attributing things to the tweet which aren't there.
You can be made that King's post was interpreted by others to mean that Lee was part of the group or that King implies that, but it's certainly not something he said.
If people on Era are really as progressive like they claim to be then there should be just as much outrage and denouncement for King as they give Lee. I'm sorry but you can't brush off that the individual was complicit in the most fallacious, horrifying invasion and destruction of a country and its people in recent history just because he writes comics you like. People should really educate themselves on Iraq, "the war on terror" and the CIA's complicit role in all of it. He was just as aware of what the CIA was up to as Lee was aware of CG. Tom King wasn't defending our freedom and making us safer in Iraq - I am sorry to break it to you. Keep brushing it off hypocrites. You pick and choose what you are outraged over and care more about Twitter than a man's willing involvement in the murder of millions of brown lives. But, I'm glad you enjoy the comic books.
Same difference for Jea Lee working with CG. If you are holding Tom King's feet to the social media coals then the same goes with Jea Lee. EVS is probably the most famous shit head in comics. It's Jea's problem.
If he didn't know, he didn't know. I can absolutely believe that some boomer ass motherfucker does not live online 24/7 with twitter feeds hypno fed into his subconsiousness while sleeping and does not know jack about the current going ons in the neverending alt right kids' crusade against cooties.
I also am capable of holding more than one opinion simultameously and can believe that Jae's current handlingof the situation is iffy, while Tom fucked up the original delivery and should have back channeled it first.
You keep doing this, but like why?
It isn't as hypocritical as you seem to think because these are far and away not the same thing and people are not "outraged" just because they criticize Lee's lack of denouncement for comicsgate.
It is literally just whataboutism.
Lee did work for a hate group, and after being made aware of this, his response was to engage in "I'm keeping my head in the sand, anybody who wants me to say anything to meaningfully denounce the hate group in question can fuck off" sort of rhetoric
Tom King seems to be a huge dumbass with a shady history, but Lee doesn't come across particularly well here, either, and I'm confused by all the people talking about "assuming guilt" or whatever when this is a discussion about 1) something that factually happened and 2) a public statement Lee himself made
It is absolutely whataboutism. You're right they aren't the same thing. Tom King has committed worse sins but people claiming to be progressives buy his comics. I haven't gotten an answer to this yet. Hold King and everyone to the same standard.
I bet Tom King wishes he back channeled it first too. Kinda moot. This is the environment that the GG CG 4chan asshole created with all the trolling, reverse concern trolling nonsense. You need to take a hard line at this stuff.
In this time of extremely online, I usually judge people on their responses/rebuttals/apologies. Not on their first infraction. Jea being all bitter about this tells me about him. He lost his dog, it was a rough day, that's his business. Let's see how he continues "not being part of this war" or not "choosing sides". He's a grown person he could deal with messing up.
This has nothing to do with Jae Lee making comic book covers for a hate group. I don't even really care about Tom King. Him being in the CIA has nothing to do with this current topic. Go make a thread about it if you want to talk about it so bad.
Congratulations on realizing that Tom King was a CIA agent fighting the Taliban, as you've repeated all throughout this thread. As we all know being anti-comicsgate is only ever about being a Tom King "supporter" and not actually being mad at the reactionaries creating a culture war and harassing minority creators.
Now why don't you address the people who are talking about Lee's lack of response to being apparently co-opted into a hate campaign.
Do they? Because AFAIK he makes stuff for like, typical comic nerds. Event stuff and shit. I doubt progressives are buying a fucking Rosrach book.
You haven't gotten an answer because you're offering nonsense. You don't care about any of this, you think you got some weird "gotcha" that barely applies to anyone so much you've just keep saying it. Not answering you doesn't mean your convictions are true, it means people are ignoring you because what you are saying is dumb.
Fuck comicsgate and I don't really have any sympathy for people who actively make money with them while dancing around denouncing them.
Also, you can't tell me ANYONE who has worked with EVS in the past two years has no awareness of it. Anyone who has worked on that stupid comic I wont name knows ALL ABOUT IT. Go make your money Lee but don't get mad when people call you out for it.
Also, you can't tell me ANYONE who has worked with EVS in the past two years has no awareness of it. Anyone who has worked on that stupid comic I wont name knows ALL ABOUT IT. Go make your money Lee but don't get mad when people call you out for it.
This isn't just whataboutism, this is derailing. The topic isn't about Tom King, it's about Jae Lee. We could cancel Tom King right now and it wouldn't change the fact that Jae Lee's willingly working with a shithead. Someone would've made noise about it at some point, Tom King just got there first.
So sure, we can talk about dragging King for whatever his participation in the War on Terror was and on however hypocritical the DC fanbase is for supporting him. This just ain't the thread to do it.
I have a lot bad to say about that movement. I havn't posted much about it as I rarely have anything to add but I do keep up to date on the thread dedicated to it whenever it pops up.
I also had no idea about Tom Kings history before getting up to date on this thread so fuck him as well for his role in Iraq. In fact fuck him harder for that than anything he posted about Lee.
This isn't the thread to make it I guess, but there's a good argument that this dude has been showing who he was for a very long time, and this has all been a long time coming. Like 10-15 years ago, on the jinxworld forums, I remember his more political posts often rubbing me the wrong way. Like I could swear the guy got into an argument defending McCarthyism or some shit like that. The final straw was when he finally started going after creators I guess.
I mean, I think it's more than fair game to call him out on that, it's more than deserved, I'm definitely not gonna cape for imperialism poster boys, but it's done entirely at the expense of the topic at hand, it turns into a weird obsession.
Because yesterday he did not outright say that he denounced them and was still being used to advertise for their comics. I'll go on record and say that I don't believe that Jae supports them but that statement had a lot to say about everyone except the hate group.
As many others have said, It sucks that Lee is in this position but he should make it clear that he does not support them and will not work for them or another similar group again.
I agree that Lee should say something, especially now that EVS is using King's blunder to promote Cyberfrog using Lee's artwork, but can't we wait for him to actively fuck up before we come to any conclusion about him?
Oh I'm not coming to a conclusion, and I don't think a lot of people are either. But he definitely should say something soon.
edit: Well I guess in a way I am by giving him the benefit of the doubt.
His new IG post sounds like cause he hasn't actively denounced CG, he's being accused of being part of CG.
Guy lost his best friend, he's got comic companies calling him for answers and family and friends doing the same thing, but yea I think he needs a bit more time, but it isn't on his side right now.
Tom King is a CIA spook and even worse: an average-at-best writer with terrible ideas that has the key to the DC Universe's IPs.
You don't unleash hate mobs on an asian american artist for nothing, you just don't, specially on this current climate.
He did, though. Isn't the "I" in CIA supposed to mean "intelligence"? He knew exactly what he was doing.
His instagram post "walking the dog" after Lee spent the weekend in mourning for his dog was the cherry on top of this shit cake.
Here I thought a dude that felt the fire of fan hatred himself would have a bit more of responsibility in handling this kind of situation.
You don't unleash hate mobs on an asian american artist for nothing, you just don't, specially on this current climate.
He did, though. Isn't the "I" in CIA supposed to mean "intelligence"? He knew exactly what he was doing.
His instagram post "walking the dog" after Lee spent the weekend in mourning for his dog was the cherry on top of this shit cake.
Here I thought a dude that felt the fire of fan hatred himself would have a bit more of responsibility in handling this kind of situation.
People need statements to check certain boxes before they'll "accept" them. You always get people expecting you to say this, this and that with anything else in between not required, it's kind of weird but that's the norm these days.
That's not to say i think the statement he put out is good it's clearly something he wrote emotionally charged without taking a breath but i'll take it over the generic PR statement. If he does more work for EVS or anyone else CG related i'll never buy anything with his art again.
Did he release another statement? I thought the IG one was the same as the previous one.
Like, can't we all just do that? Can't we just wait for the dude to actually prove he's affiliated with Comicsgate or at the very least cognizant of what they do before we jump the gun?
is a CIA spook = he was over a decade ago
average-at-best writer = someone who wrote some of the best reviewed comics in the last decade (Sheriff, Vision, Mister Miracle, Omega Men) and has won seven Eisner awards.
do you think he wouldn't have done the same if the creator were any other race? If so, I'm not sure why Lee's race should be a shield against criticism of working with a hate group.
King posts pictures of his dog every day on Twitter. He wasn't doing it to spite Lee or anything. Look at King's timeline and you'll see tons of pictures of his dog, typically one every morning
Again, King said that Lee had done covers for a hate group. That's 100% true. If that's due to Lee being the singular most ignorant comics pro on the face of the earth or because he doesn't care we don't know, but there's no debate that every word in King's initial tweet is 100% correct.
Yeah, that's the same one I had in mind.
Unfortunately for Lee when you do art for a hate group companies are going to call you and ask what's up. Especially when that group was actively harassing some of your talent. It sucks that Lee got hate from strangers and folks who don't know him - but what's missing is the acknowledgement that this will not happen again.
In the current age of constant milkshake ducks you really do have to make things crystal clear.
EDIT: And this isn't pointed at you or anything, I'm just adding my voice to it is all.
For some the mere fact he did this covers for Van Sciver makes him affiliated with CG by default regardless if he knew how big a bellend he was or even that CG existed and he needs to respond to that in a clear and concise manner even if the people wanting that response probably won't believe him anyway. Whether you agree with that is up to you, each to their own and all that.
Thanks for posting this--was gonna say the same thing. Woof at anybody thinking 'look how evil tom king is posting pics of his dog to spite jae lee' as if a cursory glance at tom's social media doesn't prove that to be horseshit.
Let me chalk what's in bold as my opinion and not objective reasoning. I don't like his work, but that might change one day.
I don't think Lee's race should be treated as a shield against criticism, but a lot of things should have been taken into account in this whole mess. Sending mobs of people against each other should not be the new normal, as there will always be cases when mix-ups happen and innocent people suffer. In this case, the dude was already suffering and this only made it worse.
As for the "walking the dog" post, it's not a good look within the context, regardless of habit.
This isn't difficult guys and gals, King could've reached out to the guy and asked directly. He didn't. Instead he posted a tweet using the same reactionery nonsense people use here. Then he claimed he'd spoken to the guy, and that everything was sorted out. Which the statement provided contravenes.
Or to put it another way, if people acted like King did here they'd be raked through the coals. He doesn't get a pass because he wrote a few fantastic comic books. It was a dick move there and it's a dick move here by some of you to leap in with your smug sense of self righteousness, then shrug off a statement put out because you're having too much fun sitting on your high horses. It's amazing how the empathy you claim to have in spades evaporates when you're on your soap boxes.