Tomoya Asano (Square Enix) apologizes for Bravely Second, is why the series took a break

[ggdeku]

This is terrifying to me. BD and BS are better than any Final Fantasy to me. The full culmination of the job system in turn based battles. BS is maybe my favorite 3DS game. I wonder what he thought was wrong and what they will do differently in BD2.

That demo was really bad and It's hard for me to hold out hope after octopath which i thought was another dissapointment.

 

[oni-link]

I hope we see the 3DS games ported to Switch as a collection

I've never had a 3DS but I'm sure I'd enjoy these games

 

[BasilZero]

I actually enjoyed Second....

 

[banter]

That demo was really bad and It's hard for me to hold out hope after octopath which i thought was another dissapointment.

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Care to elaborate?

 

[Sleve McDichael]

I loved Bravely Second. One of the best 3DS games.
Default is great too, but I actually liked Second a little bit better.

 

[Weltall Zero]

The biggest problem with Bravely Second is that it recycled a lot of content from the original, especially jobs. For someone that didn't play the original it would have been a perfectly fine game, and superior to most other JRPGs of the time; I don't think they should apologize about it. It's interesting because fighting games can get away with recycling content from previous iterations because they're expected to build on them, but I guess for most other genres it's a lot more taboo.

 

[Kromeo]

I've complained about the writing and Magnolia in particular in Second many times but I didn't expect them to acknowledge it themselves lol, I didn't think it was that big of a deal, game was still fun to play

 

[SinCityAssassin]

I did enjoy BS though.

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a loaded statement.

 

[ookiimarukochan]

I haven't played it in English, but in Japanese the script for Bravely Second was absolutely dire, full of 2ch memes and dumb shit. I'd offer good money that that's what the meat of the apology is about.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

I honestly liked Second more than BD outside of the music, but I nonetheless appreciate how candid he's being.

He and the team were like this regarding BD feedback too back in the day.

 

[NioA]

This is so strange. Second was the game with better pacing and better gameplay and the overall package has the same quality of Default, if not slightly better.
Surely not something the developer should apologize for

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

This reminds me that Bravely Second has been in my backlog for years, the main late-generation casualty of most of my attention moving from the 3DS to Switch. From the demo, there were already some conspicuous systems refinements on the first game (like the introduction of streaks to break the monotony of programming one-turn wipeouts with all-in Brave bum-rushes).

I never knew there was any negativity surrounding its reception and wasn't overly concerned about recycled content, as Bravely was always one giant playground for the jobs and battle system anyway, and the progression in those respects looked substantial enough.

 

[hussien-11]

In that sense, it's no wonder that BD2 did worse. How many people did BD1 burn?

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... I'm one of them.

 

[Dark_Castle]

What??? I thought Bravely Second was well-received, comparable to the first. Of all games, Bravely Second is like nowhere near the list of games I expect Square Enix apologise for.

 

[Oswen]

I found Second to be fine to be honest, not mind blowing but solid all around.

 

[Kromeo]

This reminds me that Bravely Second has been in my backlog for years, the main late-generation casualty of most of my attention moving from the 3DS to Switch. From the demo, there were already some conspicuous systems refinements on the first game (like the introduction of streaks to break the monotony of programming one-turn wipeouts with all-in Brave bum-rushes).

I never knew there was any negativity surrounding its reception and wasn't overly concerned about recycled content, as Bravely was always one giant playground for the jobs and battle system anyway, and the progression in those respects looked substantial enough.

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The complaints are mostly about the tone of the game, the awful jokes, the music and the fact it reuses a lot of locations from the first game. In terms of combat it's even better than the first one if anything

Edit - oh and the sound quality for the voice acting is so low quality that everyone sounds like they have heavy lisps, like FFXII on ps2 but 100 times worse. Was obviously an issue with 3DS cart size

 

[Stairmaster_]

I loved Bravely Second and thought it was way better than the first game, so this is very surprising.

 

[Arkeband]

I like Second just as much as Default, but I understand why he is apologizing. The tone from Second was nothing like the one from Default, with the latter being a serious story with stakes and emotional turmoil. Second in comparison is like... a parody or something, just look at Ball Buster Magnolia or the MC obsessed with gravy. Very similar to the tone shift of FFX to X-2. Personally, I am fine with either and I thought both games executed their tone fairly well for what they were, but it definitely was a weird-ass direction to take.

I guess he could be talking about the music or the content reuse too, but I don't think that's worth apologizing.

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Ba'als were in BD1, as a secret boss, though. BD1 also had an abundance of silliness, and every party chat devolved into food talk.

Second felt a little cliche at times because it was trying to be too clever, but it was still a really great game. If we're concerned with the tone of BD being ruined, we could point to the mobile game and other sanctioned short stories and whatnot making the story incomprehensible.

His apology is even more baffling considering how Bravely Default II is totally going to reference things from Second. You'd think he'd want people to go back and play it.

 

[Naga]

That's worrying.

I preferred Bravely Second a lot more than what they did afterwards, so if they think that's the path they must follow going forwards, that explains why I disliked the BD2 demo.
That sucks, I doubt they'll listen to feedback on this too, and it'll probably sell better than Second as well :/

 

[SteelBeast6Beets]

That's 100% why. It's also why we only got DQVIIR and DQVIII3D right at the end of the 3DS' life, Nintendo had to do their job for them.

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Figures. These examples tell me that SE pretty gave up on making DQ a thing in the west back then. So the little advertisement that DQ11 got here makes an awful lot of sense now.

 

[Thera]

I think a lot of people here can't make the distinction between "live up to all fans' expectations" and the fact the game is good or not.
For exemple, Uncharted 1 was an OK game which have a big success.
Then Uncharted II happened and was an awesome game that improved on every aspects of the precedent. It live up to fan expectations.
Uncharted III was a good game but wasn't as good as II, or at least, didn't change much comparing of the precedent. It did no live up to fan expectations.

 

[Nanashrew]

There's really no need to apologize for the failings of the higher ups and not providing you with a better budget, etc. Hopefully Square is giving him a good budget now.

 

[Echizen]

I enjoyed Bravely Second a lot, but I can understand some of the complaints people had with it for sure. Surprised to see it was on the level that Asano felt the need to apologize for it though.

 

[justiceiro]

I think it's more of a question of the first one being surprisingly good, but by the second( zing) the novelty already worn off. Nobody expected square to know how to make a good jrpg at the time.

It's like Mario maker 1 and 2.

 

[Naga]

I think a lot of people here can't make the distinction between "live up to all fans' expectations" and the fact the game is good or not.
For exemple, Uncharted 1 was an OK game which have a big success.
Then Uncharted II happened and was an awesome game that improved on every aspects of the precedent. It live up to fan expectations.
Uncharted III was a good game but wasn't as good as II, or at least, didn't change much comparing of the precedent. It did no live up to fan expectations.

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What about Octopath Traveller not living up to fan expectations and them thinking it did?

 

[Xenoblade 3]

This is terrifying to me. BD and BS are better than any Final Fantasy to me. The full culmination of the job system in turn based battles. BS is maybe my favorite 3DS game. I wonder what he thought was wrong and what they will do differently in BD2.

That demo was really bad and It's hard for me to hold out hope after octopath which i thought was another dissapointment.

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Yeah its worrying for me too. Bravely Second's gameplay is way better than BD2's demo. I felt like they completely changed the things that made Bravely's turn based battles so good.

 

[Faiyaz]

What about Octopath Traveller not living up to fan expectations and them thinking it did?

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What were the expectations for Octopath and how did it not live up to them?

On topic, I thought Bravely Second was pretty great. Just because it's not as good as Default doesn't mean it was not well-received.

 

[Naga]

What were the expectations for Octopath and how did it not live up to them?

On topic, I thought Bravely Second was pretty great. Just because it's not as good as Default doesn't mean it was not well-received.

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Combat is simpler than Bravely for one. People expected the storytelling to be a lot stronger as well.
People that really liked Octopath back then usually haven't played Bravely, so hard to talk about "it met fan expectations because people liked it" there.

 

[Schlomo]

There was definitely some kind of backlash in Japan when it released. I remember prices in used game stores dropped immensely during the first weeks.

 

[Kromeo]

My main complaint with the combat in BD2 demo was more that the aminations all feel a bit off than having any issue with the mechanics. The new stat to make characters more likely to be targeted is a great addition, it felt so cheap in the first 2 when the enemies would completely ignore your character with huge defence

 

[Zaber]

The writing in Bravely Second was terrible. From man story to characters and skits. The Bravely games are basically turn-based combat simulators for me.

 

[Cosmic Schwung]

Dang. Straight up apologizing for a game lacking quality. Could you imagine someone like Capcom apologizing for BoF6? Or DMC2, DMC4, DmC, RE6, RE3make, Umbrella Corps, MvC:I or Dead Rising 4? Or Konami for Vandal Hearts Flames of Judgment, the Suikoden spin-offs, Silent Hill HD Collection, Contra Rogue Corps or MGSurvive? Or even Square for FF13, FF15's canceled DLC, Xenogears' second half or Third Birthday? Japan does value apologies a lot, but it's not something you hear a lot from entertainment companies.

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Fucking hell, this list is too real. Many of those game were fine. Fun, even. However, they were cynical followups to what proceeded them. Capcom did well with some of them with something better and were well rewarded as a result.

 

[ILikeFeet]

What about Octopath Traveller not living up to fan expectations and them thinking it did?

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it sold 2M copies. it met expectations

 

[Sesha]

Fucking hell, this list is too real. Many of those game were fine. Fun, even. However, they were cynical followups to what proceeded them. Capcom did well with some of them with something better and were well rewarded as a result.

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I wasn't exclusively thinking about outright bad games. I've played 100+ hours each of DMC4 and DmC for instance and had fun with both, for instance. I thought more about perceived disappointments, like this. And yeah, some things panned out for some of these. But Itsuno for example didn't apologize for previous games after 3 or 5 were announced. Not that I'm seeking one either. Just thinking about how rare something like this is.

 

[Disclaimer]

Combat is simpler than Bravely for one. People expected the storytelling to be a lot stronger as well.
People that really liked Octopath back then usually haven't played Bravely, so hard to talk about "it met fan expectations because people liked it" there.

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Your perception and expectations do not equal fan expectations at large -- nor does Era's, for that matter. The developers are much better positioned to understand the larger reception to a product.

And your complaints are subjective regardless. Personally, I found Octopath's writing far stronger and more thematically interesting than Bravely's, or even most JRPGs'. Its combat and job systems were more streamlined than Bravely's, but that does not make them worse.

 

[Thera]

What about Octopath Traveller not living up to fan expectations and them thinking it did?

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?

 

[Deleted member 34873]

Was the soundtrack really that big of a drop from the first game? I'd heard bad things and honestly that's been a big reason why I haven't played it yet.

 

[ZeroX]

Second was really good for a low budget sequel. Mechanically near flawless. Story was goofy but I appreciate it continuing to go full meta. If anything I want an apology for no Bravely Third to finish the story.

I appreciate the candidness. I personally really didn't like Bravely Second, but a lot of that had to do with despising the soundtrack so much that I couldn't play with the sound on, which led to me just fizzling out on the game. That hasn't happened to me very often.

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Except the soundtrack was good. Just not as good as the original

 

[Oregano]

Was the soundtrack really that big of a drop from the first game? I'd heard bad things and honestly that's been a big reason why I haven't played it yet.

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In a vacuum the soundtrack for Bravely Second is alright, maybe even pretty good, but...

It's still a massive downgrade from the first.

 

[Lord Vatek]

He shouldn't. It was way better than the first.

 

[Arkeband]

Was the soundtrack really that big of a drop from the first game? I'd heard bad things and honestly that's been a big reason why I haven't played it yet.

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It wasn't terrible, it's just hard to go from Revo's fully orchestrated tracks complete with pan flutes to more generic electric guitar midi.

It was seen as a downgrade because not only was the first's soundtrack incredible, it was a core piece of its aesthetic.

 

[ZeroX]

Was the soundtrack really that big of a drop from the first game? I'd heard bad things and honestly that's been a big reason why I haven't played it yet.

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I mean it's a significant drop I suppose, but it's still on the upper tier of JRPG soundtracks. A B+ compared to an A+. Like it's still better than most any Dragon Quest, Tales, Atelier etc game. Like there's so much worse out there it's always been a super hyperbolic complaint.

 

[CharlesAznable]

I recall reading that SE never planned to release the game worldwide and that Nintendo footed the bill.

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Yeah I remember this bullshit back in the day. Early 2010s SE was so awful about this stuff. I still have nightmares about how long it took DQ7 to get localized.

 

[CO_Andy]

Second is good. Best Bravely though is 4 Heroes of Light.

 

[Naga]

it sold 2M copies. it met expectations

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Meeting sales expectations =/= meeting fan expectations, which is what the point was about.
We can talk about plenty of sales successes that way, like in the past months.

Your perception and expectations do not equal fan expectations at large -- nor does Era's, for that matter. The developers are much better positioned to understand the larger reception to a product.

And your complaints are subjective regardless. Personally, I found Octopath's writing far stronger and more thematically interesting than Bravely's, or even most JRPGs'. Its combat and job systems were more streamlined than Bravely's, but that does not make them worse.

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If I'm saying that, that's because there's already been a lot of threads on Octopath and what people thought about it after release. There's been tons of critics about the storytelling, and most people on Era saying the combat was great admitted they didn't play any Bravely game either.
I'm not sure devs are always better positioned considering this very thread and the reception to Asano's comments. Or other recent RPGs from Square-Enix (like the RPG Factory ones).

I doubt your perception and expectations equal fan expectations at large (or Era's) more closely than mine based on that. Search function is up there if you don't believe me.

You've quoted me, so I'm sure you've read what I wrote, and how I didn't say that the combat was worse. It fitted Octopath. Shallower combat in Bravely doesn't work though.

?

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Re-read the whole chain of posts.

 

[krossj]

I didn't enjoy second as much as the first but i don't remember it being offensive.. think i just got bored of the very frequent character interactions a lot in second, it felt like there was so much more than the first but I got no science to back up if there was actually a lot more

 

[Blade24070]

Square Enix has released FAR shittier games than BS (which is good) and nobody ever apologized for those. Did anyone apologize for The 3rd Birthday?

The game was good and the soundtrack was good too. Based on some online reactions you'd think this game had a garbage ost when really it's just average to good as opposed to the first game's better ost (but I also found that one overrated, nowhere near what others make it out to be, but objectively it's better).

 

[ILikeFeet]

Meeting sales expectations =/= meeting fan expectations, which is what the point was about.
We can talk about plenty of sales successes that way, like in the past months.

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so somehow, you're capable of interviewing 2M people and asking them of their opinion?

I mean, shit, there wasn't even a vocal outcry. some goddamned magic you got there

 

[Kouriozan]

I admit I never bought Second, I just didn't feel it and no Revo sealed the deal.
I know Revo was busy so he couldn't compose for Second so I won't blame anyone.

 

[Disclaimer]

Meeting sales expectations =/= meeting fan expectations, which is what the point was about.
We can talk about plenty of sales successes that way, like in the past months.

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"Fan expectations" in this context being a nebulous buzz term used to support your personal perspective. Octopath was a separate, different series from Bravely. If your usage of "fan expectations" is to mean "Bravely fans' expectations," that is not what they were specifically targeting; Octopath is not and was never intended to be Bravely. But even then you have nothing to support such a supposition.

If I'm saying that, that's because there's already been a lot of threads on Octopath and what people thought about it after release. There's been tons of critics about the storytelling, and most people on Era saying the combat was great admitted they didn't play any Bravely game either.
I'm not sure devs are always better positioned considering this very thread and the reception to Asano's comments. Or other recent RPGs from Square-Enix (like the RPG Factory ones).

I doubt your perception and expectations equal fan expectations at large (or Era's) more closely than mine based on that. Search function is up there if you don't believe me.

You've quoted me, so I'm sure you've read what I wrote, and how I didn't say that the combat was worse. It fitted Octopath. Shallower combat in Bravely doesn't work though.

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Once again, you're making sweeping statements with no actual grounding in reality. Yes, there were critics of its storytelling and structuring, but criticism is not inherently correct, and there have likewise been well-reasoned arguments for its method of storytelling and anthological structure, while mindful of its missteps.

"Most people on Era" is not a quantifiable demographic. There was not a mandatory poll -- or even overmuch discussion -- about the overlap of Octopath and Bravely players. You're conjuring that from thin air, not "the search function."

We do not know if BD2's combat will be shallower than BD1/BS. The demo was a vertical slice created specifically to draw feedback, not a preview at the final product. Octopath Traveler saw extensive balance changes to its Break & Boost systems after its own initial demo.